The 5.1 API is still being shipped alongside 5.2, so I reckon no
linkage problems should arise.

Victor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Ingalls" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:34 PM
Subject: [Csnd] RE: Re: Re: QuteCsound is great (was Re: Mac Leopard)


i was unaware of a change in the API - guess i should read this list more 
often..

________________________________________
From: Andres Cabrera [mantaraya36@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:49 AM
To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: QuteCsound is great (was Re: Mac Leopard)

Try it. QuteCsound will use the Csound that is installed, so if it's
5.09 or greater, it should work.

BTW, now thinking about the API version change, would this not break
MacCsound for 5.10 onwards?

Cheers,
Andrés

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:19 AM, DavidW  wrote:
> Now all we need is a version that runs under Intel mac installation of
> csound that installs with an installed macpython and we'll be able to do
> some cookin'.
> Or is that now possible - I'm afraid I'm out of touch....
>
> David
> On 08/01/2009, at 8:18 PM, victor wrote:
>
>> Rendering is not done by MacCsound but by Csound, so that
>> should be the same, or in fact faster, since QuteCsound runs the
>> native intel Csound. I can't see that this can be more sluggish.
>>
>> As far as I can see, at least on Windows, QuteCsound is great and
>> works very well, not sluggish at all. I think it is excellent that it 
>> uses
>> an open GUI framework that can be maintained for all platforms.
>> Andres did a sterling job with it and the compatibility with MacCsound
>> was a good idea, although it could have restricted the design of
>> the program. But it makes all those MacCsound examples now
>> multiplatform.
>>
>> Again, I think this is absolutely great. Perhaps soon we would be able
>> to substitute the troublesome Csound5GUI by QuteCsound in the
>> distribution, if Andres thinks it is a good idea.
>>
>> (well, there is one thing I am personally not too keen: its name,
>> also awkward to spell and type... :)
>>
>> Victor
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Nelsen" 
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:12 AM
>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: RE: Mac Leopard
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2009, at 10:15 PM, Matt Ingalls wrote:
>>>
>>>> QuteCsound looks great, but as far as i can tell it still has a ways 
>>>> to
>>>> go and seems more sluggish.
>>>
>>> It is more sluggish.
>>>
>>> I don't know what magic you did in MacCsound, but it renders most
>>> efficiently. :)
>>>
>>> Darren
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>



--


Andrés


Send bugs reports to this list.
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csound"


Send bugs reports to this list.
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csound"= 

Just to be clear for Matt, the 5.1 framework included with Csound 5.10 is
based on Csound 5.08.  So, users can install 5.10 or later and API version 1
clients like MacCsound will continue to work (automatically we hope) but
they will be "frozen" at version 5.08 until they are recompiled.

For QuteCsound, if it was compiled against 5.09, it may not work with either
framework version included with Csound 5.10 on OS X.  I think that
QuteCsound should be rebuilt against 5.10 to ensure compatibility.

Anthony

victor wrote on 1/8/09 1:45 PM:

> The 5.1 API is still being shipped alongside 5.2, so I reckon no
> linkage problems should arise.
> 
> Victor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Ingalls" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:34 PM
> Subject: [Csnd] RE: Re: Re: QuteCsound is great (was Re: Mac Leopard)
> 
> 
> i was unaware of a change in the API - guess i should read this list more
> often..
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: Andres Cabrera [mantaraya36@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:49 AM
> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: QuteCsound is great (was Re: Mac Leopard)
> 
> Try it. QuteCsound will use the Csound that is installed, so if it's
> 5.09 or greater, it should work.
> 
> BTW, now thinking about the API version change, would this not break
> MacCsound for 5.10 onwards?

Yes, linking to 5.10 will make it incompatible with earlier releases.

In general, when using a dynamic library's API, I believe it is good
practice to link to the oldest version that supports the features you need
and that is compatible with the newest version that you want to support.
This helps you as a developer because you can guarantee that your app works
with older versions and if you make a change that requires a function from a
newer version, then you will get a linker error letting you know that the
requirements of your project have changed.  If you always link to the latest
version, the compiler won't help you with these issues.

In Csound's case because the newest version is binary incompatible with old
versions you will probably want to link to 5.10 now and continue doing so
until a new feature is introduced that QuteCsound will require.

That's my opinion anyways ...

Anthony Kozar
mailing-lists-1001 AT anthonykozar DOT net
http://anthonykozar.net/


Andres Cabrera wrote on 1/8/09 3:44 PM:

> It will be for the next release. One question, if I build QuteCsound
> against 5.10, will it then be incompatible with earier releases? I
> have no problem with this, just to warn users in case.

On 09/01/2009, at 8:28 AM, Andres Cabrera wrote:

> Happy new year Rory, Matt and the rest. I think I haven't said this  
> here =).
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Rory Walsh  wrote:
>> Hi Andres, and may I wish you a happy new year also! I'm going to  
>> have
>> to stop doing that soon.. anyway just to clear up some things.  
>> Lettuce
>> is a csound fromntend/editor if you like and it's dependant on M$
>> libraries. Cabbage is the widget engine it employs, they are two
>> separate systems. Unlike Lettuce Cabbage is cross platform as I
>> designed it with wxWidgets. A unified widgets syntax would be great.
>> Matt suggested that I use xml style code for my widgets some time ago
>> but as I like to code by hand the idea of manual editing XML code
>> scares the bejeepers out of me. In the end I used a simple syntax  
>> like
>> this:
>>
>
> thanks for the clarification, and yes, editing xml code by hand is not
> nice (tell me about it, I've been doing the manual for years =)). It's
> designed to be human readable, but it really takes a while to get used
> to and to be productive in.


The important thing about XML is not that it _can_ be read/edited by  
hand but that it is an external standard.
This type of extending a hand(le) to the wider world, which is the  
basis of wx for eg, should, IMO be a fundamental design consideration.
To make up another standard when there's perfectly good ones available  
seems to me to be a backward step.

D.
________________________________________________
David Worrall.
- Experimental Polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
- Education for Financial Independence: www.mindthemarkets.com.au
Australian research affiliations:
- Capital Markets Cooperative Research Centre: www.cmcrc.com
- Sonic Communications Research Group:	creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg

On Jan 8, 2009, at 5:25 PM, DavidW wrote:

> The important thing about XML is not that it _can_ be read/edited by  
> hand but that it is an external standard.
> This type of extending a hand(le) to the wider world, which is the  
> basis of wx for eg, should, IMO be a fundamental design consideration.
> To make up another standard when there's perfectly good ones  
> available seems to me to be a backward step.


I concur.

The Widget Construction Kit  might be worth a look...

http://effbot.org/zone/wck-index.htm

Fredrik Lundh, the author, has ¿recently? been 'acquired' by google  
(so has credentials in the field).

Not my expertise, but I am interested.
Also in integrating code and documentation - something which,  
implemented overtime, could provide very powerful means for csound.
D.


On 09/01/2009, at 8:02 AM, Rory Walsh wrote:

> Hi Andres, and may I wish you a happy new year also! I'm going to have
> to stop doing that soon.. anyway just to clear up some things. Lettuce
> is a csound fromntend/editor if you like and it's dependant on M$
> libraries. Cabbage is the widget engine it employs, they are two
> separate systems. Unlike Lettuce Cabbage is cross platform as I
> designed it with wxWidgets. A unified widgets syntax would be great.
> Matt suggested that I use xml style code for my widgets some time ago
> but as I like to code by hand the idea of manual editing XML code
> scares the bejeepers out of me. In the end I used a simple syntax like
> this:
>
> scrollbar channel("scrollbar_1"), pos(15, 23), min(200), max(500),  
> value(200)
>
> most of the above parameters apart from pos() have default values and
> can be left out. If I'm not mistaken Matt never intended users of
> MacCsound to edit the widget code by hand whereas I expect users of
> cabbage to edit widget code manually. Of course it's easy to generate
> this syntax when users drop widgets onto a form in Lettuce's GUI
> builder. As cabbage hasn't been publicaly released yet now is a great
> time to discuss a unified syntax approach. If Qute supported cabbage
> syntax then qute users could convert their Csound instruments into
> standalone GUI programs. One thing whcih Lettuce has which I think
> might clear up qute's interface a little is a side tab to switch
> between edit and GUI mode. It means that users have an entire screen
> for messing with widgets, they can then alt tab to the text. It really
> helped unclutter my interface.
>
> Rory.
>
>
>
> 2009/1/8 Andres Cabrera :
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Anthony Kozar
>>  wrote:
>>> Just to be clear for Matt, the 5.1 framework included with Csound  
>>> 5.10 is
>>> based on Csound 5.08.  So, users can install 5.10 or later and API  
>>> version 1
>>> clients like MacCsound will continue to work (automatically we  
>>> hope) but
>>> they will be "frozen" at version 5.08 until they are recompiled.
>>>
>>> For QuteCsound, if it was compiled against 5.09, it may not work  
>>> with either
>>> framework version included with Csound 5.10 on OS X.  I think that
>>> QuteCsound should be rebuilt against 5.10 to ensure compatibility.
>>>
>>
>> It will be for the next release. One question, if I build QuteCsound
>> against 5.10, will it then be incompatible with earier releases? I
>> have no problem with this, just to warn users in case.
>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> victor wrote on 1/8/09 1:45 PM:
>>>
>>>> The 5.1 API is still being shipped alongside 5.2, so I reckon no
>>>> linkage problems should arise.
>>>>
>>>> Victor
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Matt Ingalls" 
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:34 PM
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] RE: Re: Re: QuteCsound is great (was Re: Mac  
>>>> Leopard)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i was unaware of a change in the API - guess i should read this  
>>>> list more
>>>> often..
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Andres Cabrera [mantaraya36@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:49 AM
>>>> To: csound@lists.bath.ac.uk
>>>> Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: QuteCsound is great (was Re: Mac Leopard)
>>>>
>>>> Try it. QuteCsound will use the Csound that is installed, so if  
>>>> it's
>>>> 5.09 or greater, it should work.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, now thinking about the API version change, would this not  
>>>> break
>>>> MacCsound for 5.10 onwards?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>>> "unsubscribe csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Andrés
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
>> "unsubscribe csound"
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body  
> "unsubscribe csound"
>

________________________________________________
David Worrall.
- Experimental Polymedia:	www.avatar.com.au
- Education for Financial Independence: www.mindthemarkets.com.au
Australian research affiliations:
- Capital Markets Cooperative Research Centre: www.cmcrc.com
- Sonic Communications Research Group:	creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg
- MARCS Auditory Laboratories: marcs.uws.edu.au