There used to be a udo version of mode, but it seems to have been
removed from the udo database.
It is a model of an elementary mass-spring oscilator which will
produce sinusoidal 'motion' when it is forced.
Regarding bowed vs blown sounds, I have had some success using a pulse
train for bowed strings (I used mpulse with its interval time set
to produce the frequency). Perhaps moving between pulse and noise
could produce an appropriate shift in character.



Joel

On 31 August 2010 03:23, Anthony Palomba  wrote:
> As I understand it, streson and mode work with sympathetic resonance.
> The incoming audio signal or impulse excites the model and it creates
> resonance.
>
> Streson has a fixed resonance model, while mode allows you to specify
> a specific frequency. Typically, you would have to use a bank of modes to
> get the
> same effect as streson, but it gives you the freedom to specify your own
> resonance model.
>
> The question I have is what is streson and mode doing inside? Are they
> using an actual string model or is it using a resonant filter?
>
> Adam, you may also want to look into wgbow and wgclar. I think these
> do a better job of capturing the characteristics of the instrument, like
> attack
> transients. Maybe a combination of stresson and  wgclar might be what you
> are looking for.
>
>
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Adam  wrote:
>>
>> There was a paper on Stochastic Resonance Sound Synthesis at
>> the 2008 ICMC.
>>
>> I believe you might be able to find it below,
>>
>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/i/icmc/browse.html
>>
>>
>> Adam.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday 31 August 2010 11:03 am, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I was thinking about doing some playing around with creating synthetic,
>> > yet
>> > organic-sounding instruments using 'mode' and/or 'streson'.
>> > What I was wondering about is: with instruments driven by noise
>> > (band-limited or not), what are the audible signatures that create the
>> > impression/illusion that the sustained sound is the result of being
>> > blown
>> > vs. being bowed? Is it the type of noise going in? The presence of a
>> > certain type of noise over the resonant output that 'leaks through'? Is
>> > it
>> > about the choice of 'mode' vs. 'streson'? Not knowing the internals of
>> > either, could either do a reasonable wind instrument at all (I'm
>> > convinced
>> > of the bowed-string like potential of both :) ) Can one design a timbre
>> > where the perception of the instrument is that is ambiguously wind- or
>> > bow-
>> > driven? (I'm thinking here of the Chowning FM morphs, or something
>> > analogous to PVS morphing)
>> >
>> > Anyway, just curious if any one else has though along these lines, and
>> > what
>> > your experience in this area is. Something is telling me that there's an
>> > awful lot of beauty to be found in both of these opcodes, having played
>> > with them just enough to smell it!
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > AKJ
>> >
>> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> > csound"
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>


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Talking of physical modeling issues,
I have sometimes wondered how the two parallel delay lines in wguide2
could give a somewhat true representation of a struck plate.
I can see the analogy of taking a model of a string, and coupling it
with another string "in another dimension" to create a 2D physical
model, but I've never been able to get anything useful out of it.
Insights on plate models would be interesting to hear.

best
Oeyvind

2010/8/31 Joel Ross :
> There used to be a udo version of mode, but it seems to have been
> removed from the udo database.
> It is a model of an elementary mass-spring oscilator which will
> produce sinusoidal 'motion' when it is forced.
> Regarding bowed vs blown sounds, I have had some success using a pulse
> train for bowed strings (I used mpulse with its interval time set
> to produce the frequency). Perhaps moving between pulse and noise
> could produce an appropriate shift in character.
>
>
>
> Joel
>
> On 31 August 2010 03:23, Anthony Palomba  wrote:
>> As I understand it, streson and mode work with sympathetic resonance.
>> The incoming audio signal or impulse excites the model and it creates
>> resonance.
>>
>> Streson has a fixed resonance model, while mode allows you to specify
>> a specific frequency. Typically, you would have to use a bank of modes to
>> get the
>> same effect as streson, but it gives you the freedom to specify your own
>> resonance model.
>>
>> The question I have is what is streson and mode doing inside? Are they
>> using an actual string model or is it using a resonant filter?
>>
>> Adam, you may also want to look into wgbow and wgclar. I think these
>> do a better job of capturing the characteristics of the instrument, like
>> attack
>> transients. Maybe a combination of stresson and  wgclar might be what you
>> are looking for.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Adam  wrote:
>>>
>>> There was a paper on Stochastic Resonance Sound Synthesis at
>>> the 2008 ICMC.
>>>
>>> I believe you might be able to find it below,
>>>
>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/i/icmc/browse.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday 31 August 2010 11:03 am, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I was thinking about doing some playing around with creating synthetic,
>>> > yet
>>> > organic-sounding instruments using 'mode' and/or 'streson'.
>>> > What I was wondering about is: with instruments driven by noise
>>> > (band-limited or not), what are the audible signatures that create the
>>> > impression/illusion that the sustained sound is the result of being
>>> > blown
>>> > vs. being bowed? Is it the type of noise going in? The presence of a
>>> > certain type of noise over the resonant output that 'leaks through'? Is
>>> > it
>>> > about the choice of 'mode' vs. 'streson'? Not knowing the internals of
>>> > either, could either do a reasonable wind instrument at all (I'm
>>> > convinced
>>> > of the bowed-string like potential of both :) ) Can one design a timbre
>>> > where the perception of the instrument is that is ambiguously wind- or
>>> > bow-
>>> > driven? (I'm thinking here of the Chowning FM morphs, or something
>>> > analogous to PVS morphing)
>>> >
>>> > Anyway, just curious if any one else has though along these lines, and
>>> > what
>>> > your experience in this area is. Something is telling me that there's an
>>> > awful lot of beauty to be found in both of these opcodes, having played
>>> > with them just enough to smell it!
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > AKJ
>>> >
>>> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>> >             https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> > csound"
>>>
>>>
>>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>>> csound"
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
>
>


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Aaron, since it sounds like it was very much similar to what you are
trying to achieve, I'll give you a quick overview of my experiences
in trying to make a modal synthesis, in my case of a cello tone.

I was using bandpass filters and mode to perform the same function,
comparing the results. The differences between them in terms of sound
where not as great as I had expected. The synthesis consisted of
parallel modes or bandpass filters (about ten of them) at frequencies
and amplitudes that I had found by analysing a sample of a cello using
the program praat. I tried both using only harmonic pitches and taking
only amplitudes from the analysis, as well as using frequencies from
the analysis which were not necessarily harmonic. In both cases I took
these frequencies to be relative to the fundamental, so I don't know
whether you couldn't use this technique for body resonance as well.

One problem with 'mode'  is the ease with witch you can overload it,
the manual page says something about the ratio between the quality and
the frequency, but I found also that it was unstable if you excited it
with a signal too close in frequency to its own, particularly in the
pairings that the manual example demonstrates.

I have tried 'streson' also, but found that while it sounds good for a
sustained pitch, changing this pitch results in artifacts, and I was
modulating my whole model in order to create vibrato.

The result of this was a sound which was distinctly cello like, but
still obviously synthetic. One other technique that I have played with
is banded waveguides, though I can't remember exactly how to construct
them, they are used in much the same way, with definite frequencies
specified, I think they were initially intended to simulate static
bodies, but I think they could produce for dynamic sounds as well.

Generally I found that the main problem is the ammount of time
necessary to tweak these arrangements until they yield useable
results.

Joel

On 1 September 2010 22:08, Aaron Krister Johnson  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for the insights all. Adam, that paper wasn't exactly what I was
> after, but it was very interesting notheless, and will open completely
> different fascinating doors when I get the time to look at implementing the
> described synthesis method in Csound.
>
> I'm more getting at, by my question, the main difference in spectral energy
> that makes one recognize that something is bowed v.s blown. IOW, given that
> 'mode' is abstract enough as a resonator, can it imitate blown and bowed
> objects equally well?
>
> And, what's the difference, besides feedback (a delay line is it?) of
> filtered noise and mode-filtered noise?
>
> So, Joel, maybe pulse trains as an input to 'mode' is what you would
> suggest? Or as an input to 'streson'? It might be interesting to feed
> stochastic pulses to either opcode, too....ok, too many possibilities....
>
> AKJ
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Joel Ross 
> wrote:
>>
>> There used to be a udo version of mode, but it seems to have been
>> removed from the udo database.
>> It is a model of an elementary mass-spring oscilator which will
>> produce sinusoidal 'motion' when it is forced.
>> Regarding bowed vs blown sounds, I have had some success using a pulse
>> train for bowed strings (I used mpulse with its interval time set
>> to produce the frequency). Perhaps moving between pulse and noise
>> could produce an appropriate shift in character.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joel
>>
>> On 31 August 2010 03:23, Anthony Palomba  wrote:
>> > As I understand it, streson and mode work with sympathetic resonance.
>> > The incoming audio signal or impulse excites the model and it creates
>> > resonance.
>> >
>> > Streson has a fixed resonance model, while mode allows you to specify
>> > a specific frequency. Typically, you would have to use a bank of modes
>> > to
>> > get the
>> > same effect as streson, but it gives you the freedom to specify your own
>> > resonance model.
>> >
>> > The question I have is what is streson and mode doing inside? Are they
>> > using an actual string model or is it using a resonant filter?
>> >
>> > Adam, you may also want to look into wgbow and wgclar. I think these
>> > do a better job of capturing the characteristics of the instrument, like
>> > attack
>> > transients. Maybe a combination of stresson and  wgclar might be what
>> > you
>> > are looking for.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Anthony
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Adam  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> There was a paper on Stochastic Resonance Sound Synthesis at
>> >> the 2008 ICMC.
>> >>
>> >> I believe you might be able to find it below,
>> >>
>> >> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/i/icmc/browse.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Adam.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tuesday 31 August 2010 11:03 am, Aaron Krister Johnson wrote:
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I was thinking about doing some playing around with creating
>> >> > synthetic,
>> >> > yet
>> >> > organic-sounding instruments using 'mode' and/or 'streson'.
>> >> > What I was wondering about is: with instruments driven by noise
>> >> > (band-limited or not), what are the audible signatures that create
>> >> > the
>> >> > impression/illusion that the sustained sound is the result of being
>> >> > blown
>> >> > vs. being bowed? Is it the type of noise going in? The presence of a
>> >> > certain type of noise over the resonant output that 'leaks through'?
>> >> > Is
>> >> > it
>> >> > about the choice of 'mode' vs. 'streson'? Not knowing the internals
>> >> > of
>> >> > either, could either do a reasonable wind instrument at all (I'm
>> >> > convinced
>> >> > of the bowed-string like potential of both :) ) Can one design a
>> >> > timbre
>> >> > where the perception of the instrument is that is ambiguously wind-
>> >> > or
>> >> > bow-
>> >> > driven? (I'm thinking here of the Chowning FM morphs, or something
>> >> > analogous to PVS morphing)
>> >> >
>> >> > Anyway, just curious if any one else has though along these lines,
>> >> > and
>> >> > what
>> >> > your experience in this area is. Something is telling me that there's
>> >> > an
>> >> > awful lot of beauty to be found in both of these opcodes, having
>> >> > played
>> >> > with them just enough to smell it!
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> > AKJ
>> >> >
>> >> > Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >> >
>> >> > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> >> > "unsubscribe
>> >> > csound"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>> >>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body
>> >> "unsubscribe
>> >> csound"
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
>>            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
>> csound"
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best,
>
> Aaron Krister Johnson
> http://www.akjmusic.com
> http://www.untwelve.org
>
>


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