Well, as you know, I think having 32 bits and 64 bits is a bad idea. It should just be 64 bits. So I am utterly indifferent to this question. I never build or use 32 bits.

It continues to escape me why everyone else doesn't do the same. If it sometimes sounds better and is inarguably more precise and only runs a little slower, and oh yes it's much simpler to only build for 64 bits, what's the big deal? Are we musicians here or software engineering speed demons? 

At the end of the day, Csound is a musical instrument and its only purpose is to make music.

Best,
Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Yi 
Sent: Nov 7, 2005 2:15 AM
To: csound-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] CVS Reorganization Request

If you don't mind then, that is good.  I will wait to hear from John
and Victor and everyone else to hear their thoughts.  As I said
before, without doing this, it complicates what I am interested in
doing with SConstruct to have the two cache's of object files always
building for 32 and 64 so one does not have to erase any set to build
the other.  In that respect then, the current system *is* broken, and
will not be able to handle this. (Trust me, I have more than enough on
my plate these days as to be interested to take on more work, but this
capability in the build file interests me enough to want to implement
it.)

Thanks,
steven



On 11/6/05, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> I don't care one way or the other about reorganizing sources. It's not
> something I would do myself, since my philosophy is, if it ain't broke,
> don't fix it.
>
> Best,
> Mike
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Yi" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cs-dev] CVS Reorganization Request
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> The Sconcript file seems to make more sense for frontends, but that's
> about all.  From my first look at it, it seems a bit complicated, so
> will ignore for now. I do think the SConstruct file is getting a bit
> big and some of the build logic isn't clear (though it's improved a
> lot in the past couple weeks by Istvan and yourself).
>
> What do you think about reorganizing all of the source file
> directories under src?
>
> steven
>
>
> On 11/6/05, Michael Gogins  wrote:
> > I found that having everything in one SConstruct file really made SCons
> > much easier to use. I like things that are easy to use. Just a thought. If
> > you find having SConstript files makes things easy, then that's fine with
> > me.
> >
> > Best,
> > Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steven Yi 
> > Sent: Nov 5, 2005 11:55 PM
> > To: Csound-dev 
> > Subject: [Cs-dev] CVS Reorganization Request
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've been looking into having separate build directories for the same
> > src directory and it's a little complicated but makes sense.  One
> > thing I'd like to do first before all of that is to move all
> > directories containing sourcefiles  down one level into a src/ folder.
> >  This would make it *much* easier to use the BuildDir feature in Scons
> > and allow for easy building of debug and release versions of both 32
> > and 64 bit csounds.  Their object files would be built in separate
> > directories so an update file would not require any deleting of
> > current object files if wanting to switch from 32 to 64.
> >
> > The drawbacks to moving all directories over to a src/ folder are:
> >
> > -reorganization of SConstruct file (would maybe start using SConscript
> > files in addition to SConstruct file)
> > -loss of CVS history (it'll be there in the old location in the CVS
> > Attic, but a little trickier to find)
> >
> > For the first option, I can try the reorganization locally and when I
> > have it working I can email here to get a firm okay from everyone to
> > go ahead, and then take care of the changes.  Everyone would have to
> > do an update after that (with -d) and then proceed from there.
> >
> > For option B, not much to be done, but could could tag the CVS before
> > commiting the reorganization, so that the old version can be checked
> > out and history can be checked against that tagged version for finding
> > old versions.
> >
> > For what it's worth, I think it will lead to a more organized project.
> >
> > I've also looked into the CacheDir feature and it is interesting but a
> > little wary of using it for fear of things getting out of sync.  It's
> > sort of a strange feature, but any extra generated files (object
> > files, binaries, etc.) are stored in a cache, and when you go to
> > build, if a copy of the generated file doesn't exist, it will check
> > the cache to see if an already built version that is up to date and in
> > sync is existent and reuse that if so.  Not sure how useful everyone
> > would find that feature.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > steven
> >
> >
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> Well, as you know, I think having 32 bits and 64 bits is a bad idea. It should just be 64 bits. So I am utterly indifferent to this question. I never build or use 32 bits.
> 
> It continues to escape me why everyone else doesn't do the same. If it sometimes sounds better and is inarguably more precise and only runs a little slower, and oh yes it's much simpler to only build for 64 bits, what's the big deal? Are we musicians here or software engineering speed demons? 
> 
> At the end of the day, Csound is a musical instrument and its only purpose is to make music.

Ah, but some of us are live performers, and the speed *does* matter, 
very very much. I am and will be for many years yet picking which 
corners to cut in order to get close to what I want running in real 
time. So I think it is good to still be able to run 32 bits.

Iain


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Absolutely!  And some people still run Csound on rather old computers whose
double performance can be significantly slower than single floats.

I bet that if we could find a way to compile Csound to use 32-bit
fixed-point numbers (stored in an ordinary 32-bit integer), that the
sacrifice of precision for more speed would interest many users.  (Not that
I am suggesting we try this -- but it is something that another software
synthesis program I am developing will support).

So, I would not underestimate the importance of 32-bit floats :)

Anthony Kozar
anthonykozar@sbcglobal.net
http://akozar.spymac.com/


Iain Duncan wrote on 11/7/05 1:55 PM:

>> It continues to escape me why everyone else doesn't do the same. If it
>> sometimes sounds better and is inarguably more precise and only runs a little
>> slower, and oh yes it's much simpler to only build for 64 bits, what's the
>> big deal? Are we musicians here or software engineering speed demons?

> Ah, but some of us are live performers, and the speed *does* matter,
> very very much. I am and will be for many years yet picking which
> corners to cut in order to get close to what I want running in real
> time. So I think it is good to still be able to run 32 bits.



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