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[Csnd] FM with feedback

Date2017-10-28 20:51
FromMichael Mossey
Subject[Csnd] FM with feedback
Does Csound have an FM modulator that can do feedback? Or how would this be implemented in a UDO?

Mike
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Date2017-10-28 22:21
From"Jeanette C."
SubjectRe: [Csnd] FM with feedback
Oct 28 2017, Michael Mossey has written:

> Does Csound have an FM modulator that can do feedback? Or how would this be
> implemented in a UDO?
Not sure about a direct opcode, but you can easily implement it.
Feedback means feeding back the output of the FM synthesis into the
frequency modulation input. Youbetter init an audio signal first, so its
valid everywhere.

Caution: with true FM feeding back can lead to zero output, at least if
you only feed one oscillator into itself. Better use PM (phase
modulation). You can realise that by using the table or table3 opcode
and then modulating the xndex parameter.

I think this caveat was the reason Yamaha used PM in the DX synthesizer
series instead of FM. If you're interested in the PM solution, I some
code. But may be there is a simpler solution using existing opcodes now.
I designed my UDO some time ago.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c

Here I go, on my own now <3
(Britney Spears)

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Date2017-10-29 01:25
FromMichael Mossey
SubjectRe: [Csnd] FM with feedback
Please include your code. Even if I don't need it, I would like to make better sense of what you are describing. Do you have code for a simple phase-modulated system (one modulator, one carrier) that includes feedback?

Mike

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Jeanette C. <julien@mail.upb.de> wrote:
Oct 28 2017, Michael Mossey has written:

Does Csound have an FM modulator that can do feedback? Or how would this be
implemented in a UDO?
Not sure about a direct opcode, but you can easily implement it.
Feedback means feeding back the output of the FM synthesis into the
frequency modulation input. Youbetter init an audio signal first, so its
valid everywhere.

Caution: with true FM feeding back can lead to zero output, at least if
you only feed one oscillator into itself. Better use PM (phase
modulation). You can realise that by using the table or table3 opcode
and then modulating the xndex parameter.

I think this caveat was the reason Yamaha used PM in the DX synthesizer
series instead of FM. If you're interested in the PM solution, I some
code. But may be there is a simpler solution using existing opcodes now.
I designed my UDO some time ago.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c

Here I go, on my own now <3
(Britney Spears)

Csound mailing list
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https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
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       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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Date2017-10-29 09:29
FromFrancois PINOT
SubjectRe: [Csnd] FM with feedback
I wrote something about the subject a few years ago. Maybe this can help you: http://fggp.org/en/crossfm/index.html

Regards

François

2017-10-28 21:51 GMT+02:00 Michael Mossey <michaelmossey@gmail.com>:
Does Csound have an FM modulator that can do feedback? Or how would this be implemented in a UDO?

Mike
Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Date2017-10-29 14:30
From"Jeanette C."
SubjectRe: [Csnd] FM with feedback
Oct 29 2017, Michael Mossey has written:

> Please include your code.
Here's a very simplified version:
*** pm_test.csd ***


-o pm_test.wav -W
; -o dac -+rtaudio=jack ; For Linux running JACK, adapt to your needs

; ==============================================


sr	=	48000
ksmps	=	1
nchnls	=	2
0dbfs	=	1

instr 1
 	isine init 1 ; Number of ftable containing sine wave
 	aout init 0 ; the output signal
 	kfreq init 440 ; Frequency of the note(carrier)
 	kmodfreq init 440
 	kmodlevel line 8, p3, 0 ; level of the modulation effect
 	kfblevel line .1, p3, 1 ; Level of the feedback
 	ain oscil 1, kmodfreq, isine
 	amod = ain + kfblevel * aout
 	areader phasor kfreq
 	aout table3 (areader+(amod*kmodlevel/16)), isine, 1, 0, 1 ; the modulated
 																				; signal
 	outs aout, aout
endin


; ==============================================

f1 0 32768 10 1
i1 0 4
e


*** pm_test.csd ***
...

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c

Don't, don't let me be the last to know
Don't hold back, just let it go <3
(Britney Spears)

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Date2017-10-29 15:29
FromSteven Yi
SubjectRe: [Csnd] FM with feedback
Thanks for sharing this Francois, a wonderful resource!

(I'd also mention Francois' article in the Csound Journal about crossfm:

http://csoundjournal.com/issue12/crossfm.html)

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:29 AM, Francois PINOT  wrote:
> I wrote something about the subject a few years ago. Maybe this can help
> you: http://fggp.org/en/crossfm/index.html
>
> Regards
>
> François
>
> 2017-10-28 21:51 GMT+02:00 Michael Mossey :
>>
>> Does Csound have an FM modulator that can do feedback? Or how would this
>> be implemented in a UDO?
>>
>> Mike
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

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