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Re: (off-topic) future of non-Wintel,etc.

Date1998-03-28 10:53
Fromsteele
SubjectRe: (off-topic) future of non-Wintel,etc.
Sorry for more off-topic  banter,but I may not be  the only one on the 
list who's ,well,clueless,but getting some valuable info from  this 
thread.

>> But Linux, FreeBSD, WinNT are not 64-bit OS's.... so even though the
>> processor is 64-bit the OS is still 32-bit...
What about the native OSes,Digital Unix,Solaris,Irix,etc. ? Excuse me if 
this is a stupid question. (speaking of which,can anyone reccomend a good 
book/resource that would get a beginner started on serious programming  
in different languages?)
 
khalid :
>Linux AXP (Linux on Alpha) kernel is definitely a clean 64 bit kernel.
>It's still possible to build 32-bit apps if you have the sources but
>you usually have when you're running Linux.
>
Neat! Any pointers to resources for music/audio apps for Linux AXP ?
>If you have some question about alpha-linux try:
>        axp-list@redhat.com
-Assume this is a mailing list,so wouldn't I need to subscribe?How?
> 
Gregory :
>Follow links to vendors from www.alphapowered.com. Some sell
>500 MHz Alpha PC164pc systems for < $2,000 (running Linux, FreeBSD, etc.,
>or WinNT.) Digital I/O is supported in OSS/Alpha for Zefiro ZA2, and
>other digital I/O cards.
-Thanks for the info.

Ed:
> the whole idea of dense-packing data
>   structures in Csound deserves some reconsideration.  Choosing speed
>   over compactness should at least be an option.
Most interesting.Perhaps it's time some interprising tinkerers got down 
to writing/port 64-bit apps.,etc.Let us know when anyone gets a version 
of Csound optimised for Alpha or other 64-bit proc cessors.

Personally I'm just a beginner at all this.But my point is that if we 
made the jump over to pure 64-bit computing,we'd have a lot of 
possibilities open to feed our imaginations and for our imaginations to 
feed.

-Drew Skyfyre

Date1998-03-28 17:04
FromMicheal Allen Thompson
SubjectRe: (off-topic) future of non-Wintel,etc.
Speaking of 64-bit.... has anybody got csound to compile under the SGI
IDO (MipsPro 7.1 or 7.2)? IRIX has 3 configurations: -o32 (old 32-bit)
-n32(new 32-bit) -n64(the 64-bit). I have the compiler at school (7.1)
with -n32 but do to disk space I could not install the 64 bit stuff
although I can run 64 bit binaries.... 

On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, steele wrote:

> Sorry for more off-topic  banter,but I may not be  the only one on the 
> list who's ,well,clueless,but getting some valuable info from  this 
> thread.
> 
> >> But Linux, FreeBSD, WinNT are not 64-bit OS's.... so even though the
> >> processor is 64-bit the OS is still 32-bit...
> What about the native OSes,Digital Unix,Solaris,Irix,etc. ? Excuse me if 
> this is a stupid question. (speaking of which,can anyone reccomend a good 
> book/resource that would get a beginner started on serious programming  
> in different languages?)
IRIX is 64-bit starting with 6.2.... I think the chip needs to be R4400 or
higher.... not sure on that.....
  
> khalid :
> >Linux AXP (Linux on Alpha) kernel is definitely a clean 64 bit kernel.
> >It's still possible to build 32-bit apps if you have the sources but
> >you usually have when you're running Linux.
> >
> Neat! Any pointers to resources for music/audio apps for Linux AXP ?
> >If you have some question about alpha-linux try:
> >        axp-list@redhat.com
> -Assume this is a mailing list,so wouldn't I need to subscribe?How?
> > 
> Gregory :
> >Follow links to vendors from www.alphapowered.com. Some sell
> >500 MHz Alpha PC164pc systems for < $2,000 (running Linux, FreeBSD, etc.,
> >or WinNT.) Digital I/O is supported in OSS/Alpha for Zefiro ZA2, and
> >other digital I/O cards.
> -Thanks for the info.
> 
> Ed:
> > the whole idea of dense-packing data
> >   structures in Csound deserves some reconsideration.  Choosing speed
> >   over compactness should at least be an option.
> Most interesting.Perhaps it's time some interprising tinkerers got down 
> to writing/port 64-bit apps.,etc.Let us know when anyone gets a version 
> of Csound optimised for Alpha or other 64-bit proc cessors.
> 
> Personally I'm just a beginner at all this.But my point is that if we 
> made the jump over to pure 64-bit computing,we'd have a lot of 
> possibilities open to feed our imaginations and for our imaginations to 
> feed.

Michael


Date1998-03-28 18:45
Fromtolve
SubjectC Tutorial, Comp Mus & Math Books
drew & csounders,

WARNING: a long & winding post containing resources for us beginners!

Metrowerks offers a software tutorial "Discover Programming" for c for mac
at around $100 that also contains complete books on disk and info on
purchasing paper editions.

Metrowerks sales 1 800 377-5416
www.metrowerks.com

i checked this package out briefly about a year ago and enthusiastically
recommend it -in fact i hope to actually study it a bit very soon. only
catch is that programs you create will not run in native PPC mode: for that
you would buy Metrowerks CodeWarrior (seems to be the preferred package
among developers for C) imagine this or something similar is also available
for other platforms.

as discussed recently on this list, you also need some math, at least
through algebra, though calculus is essential for complete understanding of
what is currently understood about sound. here are some highlights of that
thread...

KIM recommended:
>the ProOne CDROM Algebra refresher is very useful (I tried finding the
>bookmark for them in Netscape but I think it's on my home PC)...as well as
>many brefresher workbooks that can be found at Barnes & Noble...

Hans Mikelson wrote:
>Calculus by Howard Anton pub. John Wiley & Sons
>
>This seemed to be the standard text when I took Calculus.  I got my copy as
>a discarded text at our university bookstore for $1.00...that's only about
>10 cents a pound!  I'm not sure how useful it will be as a self study but
>it is an excellent and thorough reference.  It was used for a three
>semester calculus course.
>
>Mathcad is a pretty good inexpensive program for playing with math.
>
>If I had known complex numbers played such a big role in digital filters I
>would probably have been much more interested when I took a course in
>complex variables.
>Numerical analysis would also be a useful field of study.

Erik Spjut wrote:
>...If you want to understand HOW foscil works (as opposed to
>twiddling knobs or parameters) you need knowledge of Fourier series or
>transforms and Bessel functions, which requires a minimum of calculus and
>probably some complex algebra. If you want to know where physical models
>come from (and maybe design your own) you need to understand partial
>differential equations. There is nothing wrong with knob twiddling, but if
>that's all you do, there will be parts of digital synthesis that are
>forever hidden from you.
>
>However, Stradivarius was a lousy violinist and Issac Stern was never a
>world-class violin maker. The artist and the recording engineer are both
>necessary. The question ultimately boils down to your interests, desires,
>and abilities.

charles baker:

from David Boothe:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here is one I'm using for algebra. It is short (178 pp)and succinct,
more of a reference book really, but good as a review, if like me, your
formal algebra study was long, long ago in a galaxy far away.

"Master Math: Algebra" by Debra Anne Ross. Career Press, 1996. ISBN:
1-56414-194-2  US$9.95

    Career Press
    3 Tice Rd.
    P.O. Box 687
    Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, 07147
    USA
    (800)CAREER-1 or (201)848-0310

They also have one on pre-calculus and geometry. Haven't seen it,
though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Charles Baker:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I very much recommend the first two chapters of
Digital Audio Signal Processing: An Anthology, ed. by J. Strawn
{Digital Audio Signal Processing, An Anthology, ed. by John Strawn
The Computer Music and Digital Audio Series
William Kaufman, LosAltos, CA, publisher (1985)
ISBN 0-86576-082-9}
these are
"An Introduction to the Mathematics of Digital Signal Processing" by F.R.
Moore
and
"An Introduction the Digital Filter Theory" by J.O.Smith

They require no more than basic algebra to begin, and Dick Moore's chapter
introduces
the analytic geometry and calculus it uses in perhaps the clearest and most
gentle way I have ever seen! Heck, I am a *trumpet* player, and I understood!
;-) Similarly, I think Julius' intro to filter
theory is a model of clarity. Three thumbs up!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

and the old standbys (year old prices):
Elements of Computer Music by F. Richard Moore published by Prentice Hall.
ISBN # 0-13-252-552-6 $64 plus tax and S&H
Author suggests prerequisite of knowledge of C language and music notation.
Available in the U.S. from Simon & Schuster Telephone: 800 947-7700

The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads published by MIT Press
	U.S. Tel: 800 356-0343 extension 772 $55 in paperback.

Computer Music by Charles Dodge
brand new edition!
approximately $42
published by Macmillan. U.S. Telephone: 800 223-2336

more books on computer music...
http://www.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk/~amxvl/junho97.htm

oh yeah, there is also the csound manual. i usually forget to look at that!

happier csounding!
tolve


Drew Skyfyre wrote:
>,,,(speaking of which,can anyone recommend a good
>book/resource that would get a beginner started on serious programming
>in different languages?)

jean piche responded
>...there are now so many programming languages that it is very
>difficult to recommend one without asking: What do you want to program?
>For core
>signal processing apps (like Csound) or for clocked output (Midi
>sequencers), it
>is difficult to avoid C as this will yeild the most compact and efficient
>code.
>For interface purposes where speed is not critical, tcltk and java are
>both fine
>choices although I prefer the former. Lest we forget, lisp has much to
>recommend
>it, including a full synthesis-processing-composing-notating system out of
>Stanford (CLM-CM-CMN)