|
Coming before to long are versions of the pvoc "family" and convolve that
do the analysis and synthesis in csound; so with fast enough systems, real
time should become possible.
Richard Karpen
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Olivier Pasquet wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is it possible to do real-time vocoding. Is there a real-time pvanal?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Olivier Pasquet.
>
> --------------------
> Olivier PASQUET -- APU -- Music Faculty
> OP101@mercury.anglia.ac.uk
> www.sinclair.anglia.ac.uk/~op101.student.cambridge.anglia
> --------------------
>
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To: Andre Bartetzki
cc: Csound mailing list
Subject: Re: Voodoo and numbers
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 02 Nov 1998 01:01:06 +0100."
<363CF640.5A070938@berlin.snafu.de>
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From: Ed Hall
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The phenomenon you report is normal. (I'm not saying it's intuitive, but
it's normal.) What's happening is that the result of dividing by 12 is
usually (2/3rds of the time) not able to be exactly represented as a
binary fraction. This inexact result is either rounded up or down (exactly
how is based on the binary representation and thus isn't necessarily what
you'd expect looking at the decimal result). If it's rounded down,
multiplying the result by 12 will yield a number just slightly less than
the original. Printed to three decimal points, it will look exactly
like the original number, but taking the int() will show that it falls
slightly short of the full integer value. Of course, if the result of
the devision happened to be rounded up, int() would simply remove the
miniscule fraction involved.
I wrote a C program which performed the exact same calculations, but
which showed 8 digits beyond the decimal. Here is the result:
i1 = 0.00000000, i2 = 0.00000000, i3 = 0.00000000, i4 = 0.00000000
i1 = 0.08333334, i2 = 1.00000000, i3 = 1.00000000, i4 = 1.00000000
i1 = 0.16666667, i2 = 2.00000000, i3 = 2.00000000, i4 = 2.00000000
i1 = 0.25000000, i2 = 3.00000000, i3 = 3.00000000, i4 = 3.00000000
i1 = 0.33333334, i2 = 4.00000000, i3 = 4.00000000, i4 = 4.00000000
i1 = 0.41666666, i2 = 5.00000000, i3 = 5.00000000, i4 = 5.00000000
i1 = 0.50000000, i2 = 6.00000000, i3 = 6.00000000, i4 = 6.00000000
i1 = 0.58333331, i2 = 7.00000000, i3 = 7.00000000, i4 = 7.00000000
i1 = 0.66666669, i2 = 8.00000000, i3 = 8.00000000, i4 = 8.00000000
i1 = 0.75000000, i2 = 9.00000000, i3 = 9.00000000, i4 = 9.00000000
i1 = 0.83333331, i2 =10.00000000, i3 =10.00000000, i4 =10.00000000
i1 = 0.91666669, i2 =11.00000000, i3 =11.00000000, i4 =11.00000000
i1 = 0.00000000, i2 = 0.00000000, i3 = 0.00000000, i4 = 0.00000000
i1 = 0.08333337, i2 = 1.00000048, i3 = 1.00000000, i4 = 1.00000000
i1 = 0.16666663, i2 = 1.99999952, i3 = 1.00000000, i4 = 2.00000000
i1 = 0.25000000, i2 = 3.00000000, i3 = 3.00000000, i4 = 3.00000000
i1 = 0.33333337, i2 = 4.00000048, i3 = 4.00000000, i4 = 4.00000000
i1 = 0.41666663, i2 = 4.99999952, i3 = 4.00000000, i4 = 5.00000000
i1 = 0.50000000, i2 = 6.00000000, i3 = 6.00000000, i4 = 6.00000000
i1 = 0.58333337, i2 = 7.00000048, i3 = 7.00000000, i4 = 7.00000000
i1 = 0.66666663, i2 = 7.99999952, i3 = 7.00000000, i4 = 8.00000000
i1 = 0.75000000, i2 = 9.00000000, i3 = 9.00000000, i4 = 9.00000000
i1 = 0.83333337, i2 =10.00000000, i3 =10.00000000, i4 =10.00000000
i1 = 0.91666663, i2 =11.00000000, i3 =11.00000000, i4 =11.00000000
i1 = 0.00000000, i2 = 0.00000000, i3 = 0.00000000, i4 = 0.00000000
i1 = 0.08333325, i2 = 0.99999905, i3 = 0.00000000, i4 = 1.00000000
i1 = 0.16666675, i2 = 2.00000095, i3 = 2.00000000, i4 = 2.00000000
i1 = 0.25000000, i2 = 3.00000000, i3 = 3.00000000, i4 = 3.00000000
i1 = 0.33333325, i2 = 3.99999905, i3 = 3.00000000, i4 = 4.00000000
i1 = 0.41666675, i2 = 5.00000095, i3 = 5.00000000, i4 = 5.00000000
i1 = 0.50000000, i2 = 6.00000000, i3 = 6.00000000, i4 = 6.00000000
i1 = 0.58333325, i2 = 6.99999905, i3 = 6.00000000, i4 = 7.00000000
i1 = 0.66666675, i2 = 8.00000095, i3 = 8.00000000, i4 = 8.00000000
i1 = 0.75000000, i2 = 9.00000000, i3 = 9.00000000, i4 = 9.00000000
i1 = 0.83333325, i2 = 9.99999905, i3 = 9.00000000, i4 =10.00000000
i1 = 0.91666675, i2 =11.00000095, i3 =11.00000000, i4 =11.00000000
i1 = 0.00000000, i2 = 0.00000000, i3 = 0.00000000, i4 = 0.00000000
i1 = 0.08333325, i2 = 0.99999905, i3 = 0.00000000, i4 = 1.00000000
i1 = 0.16666675, i2 = 2.00000095, i3 = 2.00000000, i4 = 2.00000000
i1 = 0.25000000, i2 = 3.00000000, i3 = 3.00000000, i4 = 3.00000000
As you can see, the effects of rounding start to appear almost immediately,
although not enough to affect the result of the multiplication until 13
is reached. The latter is due to the rounding performed as part of that
multiplication.
Welcome to the world that people who write numeric software have to deal
with every day.
To fix your original problem, I'd not divide at all, but instead multiply
by a number slightly greater than 1/12:
i1 = frac(p4 * .08333334)
I've tested it, and it seems to work as you intended. (By the way, it
is almost always better to multiply by the reciprocal than to divide--
it is much faster on just about any CPU made. This is especially true
when scaling at audio rates, for example.)
-Ed
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Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:57:47 -0500
From: Paul Winkler
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I'm trying to get realtime MIDI input working for the first time. No go.
I thought I was just doing something dumb, but I found an old list
message from Antoine Lefebvre, which gave as a basic midi example almost
an exact duplicate of the orc/sco I'm trying. So what's wrong here?
Here's the command line I'm using:
csound -odevaudio -W -dm6 -M/dev/midi basic-midi-in.orc
basic-midi-in.sco
And here's what I get when I run it:
Csound Version 3.482 (Jun 28 1998)
orchname: basic-midi-in.orc
scorename: basic-midi-in.sco
sorting score ...
... done
orch compiler:
35 lines read
instr 1
MIT Csound: 3.482 (Jun 28 1998)
midi channel 1 using instr 20
MIDI receive: Can't get termios info.
Here's the orc:
sr = 44100
kr = 2205
ksmps = 20
nchnls = 1
instr 1
ifreq cpsmidi ; get current note & convert to cps.
aout oscil 20000, ifreq, 1 ; use f1 for table
out aout
endin
And here's the score:
f1 0 1024 10 1 .4 .3 .2 .1 .05 .07 .004
f0 20
e
Any ideas, anyone?
Thanks,
PW
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From: J P Fitch
To: zarmzarm@erols.com
cc: Csound mailing list
Subject: Re: "MIDI receive: Can't get termios info"
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I am not sure what platform you are using but the string "MIDI receive: "
is not in my sources as far as I can tell. Neither is "termios"
It looks to me as if you cannot read /dev/midi and teh message comes from
teh operating system.
Either that, or contact whoever wrote teh system you are using.
==John
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Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:24:17 -0500
From: Paul Winkler
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Whoops!
I forgot to say, I'm using csound 3.482 on a Linux system. I compiled it
myself with pgcc and haven't run into any problems with it so far. I
have tested the MIDI in/out with other applications (RTSynth, Jazz++,
even Cakewalk HS 3.1 under Wine) without a snag... so far, Csound is the
only thing that can't talk to /dev/midi.
Anyone else ever get this error?
Thanks,
PW
J P Fitch wrote:
>
> I am not sure what platform you are using but the string "MIDI receive: "
> is not in my sources as far as I can tell. Neither is "termios"
> It looks to me as if you cannot read /dev/midi and teh message comes from
> teh operating system.
> Either that, or contact whoever wrote teh system you are using.
> ==John
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Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:46:03 +0100
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:46:01 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: Paul Winkler
cc: Csound mailing list ,
Csound Linux/Unix Development Group
Subject: Re: "MIDI receive: Can't get termios info"
In-Reply-To: <363DF8D1.31B8@erols.com>
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Dear Paul,
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Paul Winkler wrote:
> Whoops!
>
> I forgot to say, I'm using csound 3.482 on a Linux system. I compiled it
> myself with pgcc and haven't run into any problems with it so far. I
> have tested the MIDI in/out with other applications (RTSynth, Jazz++,
> even Cakewalk HS 3.1 under Wine) without a snag... so far, Csound is the
> only thing that can't talk to /dev/midi.
this problem was solved some 3-4 months ago. Could you please pick up
a more recent version? You can do so easily from Dave Phillips' bgsu
repository (ftp://mustec.bgsu.edu) or from the AIMI site
(ftp://musart.dist.unige.it/CSOUND). You can even pull out the latest
snapshot of linux sources through CVS, if you have it installed:
cvs -d ':pserver:anonymous@axdev.axnet.it:/home/nicb/projects/repositories' -z6 login
Password: guest
cvs -d ':pserver:anonymous@axdev.axnet.it:/home/nicb/projects/repositories' -z6 co csound-linux
cvs -d ':pserver:anonymous@axdev.axnet.it:/home/nicb/projects/repositories' -z6 logout
(you can set CVSROOT to whatever the -d '...' says to avoid typing that
three times).
ciao
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:46:01 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: Paul Winkler
cc: Csound mailing list ,
Csound Linux/Unix Development Group
Subject: [CUD] Re: "MIDI receive: Can't get termios info"
In-Reply-To: <363DF8D1.31B8@erols.com>
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Dear Paul,
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Paul Winkler wrote:
> Whoops!
>
> I forgot to say, I'm using csound 3.482 on a Linux system. I compiled it
> myself with pgcc and haven't run into any problems with it so far. I
> have tested the MIDI in/out with other applications (RTSynth, Jazz++,
> even Cakewalk HS 3.1 under Wine) without a snag... so far, Csound is the
> only thing that can't talk to /dev/midi.
this problem was solved some 3-4 months ago. Could you please pick up
a more recent version? You can do so easily from Dave Phillips' bgsu
repository (ftp://mustec.bgsu.edu) or from the AIMI site
(ftp://musart.dist.unige.it/CSOUND). You can even pull out the latest
snapshot of linux sources through CVS, if you have it installed:
cvs -d ':pserver:anonymous@axdev.axnet.it:/home/nicb/projects/repositories' -z6 login
Password: guest
cvs -d ':pserver:anonymous@axdev.axnet.it:/home/nicb/projects/repositories' -z6 co csound-linux
cvs -d ':pserver:anonymous@axdev.axnet.it:/home/nicb/projects/repositories' -z6 logout
(you can set CVSROOT to whatever the -d '...' says to avoid typing that
three times).
ciao
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:00:21 +0100
From: Andre Bartetzki
Organization: STEAM HfM Berlin
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Subject: Re: Voodoo and numbers
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Ed Hall wrote:
>
> The phenomenon you report is normal. (I'm not saying it's intuitive, but
> it's normal.) What's happening is that the result of dividing by 12 is
> usually (2/3rds of the time) not able to be exactly represented as a
> binary fraction. This inexact result is either rounded up or down (exactly
> how is based on the binary representation and thus isn't necessarily what
> you'd expect looking at the decimal result). If it's rounded down,
> multiplying the result by 12 will yield a number just slightly less than
> the original. Printed to three decimal points, it will look exactly
> like the original number, but taking the int() will show that it falls
> slightly short of the full integer value. Of course, if the result of
> the devision happened to be rounded up, int() would simply remove the
> miniscule fraction involved.
>
>
> Welcome to the world that people who write numeric software have to deal
> with every day.
>
> To fix your original problem, I'd not divide at all, but instead multiply
> by a number slightly greater than 1/12:
>
> i1 = frac(p4 * .08333334)
>
> I've tested it, and it seems to work as you intended. (By the way, it
> is almost always better to multiply by the reciprocal than to divide--
> it is much faster on just about any CPU made. This is especially true
> when scaling at audio rates, for example.)
>
> -Ed
Thanks for your explanation - another victory over the forces of numerical darkness!
Andre
--------------------------------------------------
Andre Bartetzki http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~abart
Studio fuer elektroakustische Musik http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~abart/Steam/steam.html
Hochschule fuer Musik Berlin http://www.hfm-berlin.de
Tel. +49-30-4726629
Tel. +49-30-203092488
--------------------------------------------------
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Csound members,
My name is Charles Ugenti. My fiends call me Chazzz. I gess I should =
say a little about myself and my interest in csound.=20
I've been teaching music for 31 years in Amityville, N.Y. in the =
U.S. I programed in c about 10 years ago for my keyboard which was the =
Synergy from Digital Keyboards. The company is no longer in existance. I =
also used a software sequencer called Sequencer Plus from Voyetra. =
(which is not available any more)
Anyway, I have a 400mhz Pent II, running Windows 98. I have Visual =
C++, and thought I would get back into programing music.
One question I had was which way to proceed. I also came across SAOL =
and wondered if anyone could give me a comparison of csound and SAOL.
See Ya,
Chazzz
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Csound members,
My name is =
Charles Ugenti. My=20
fiends call me Chazzz. I gess I should say a little about myself and my =
interest=20
in csound.
I've been =
teaching music for=20
31 years in Amityville, N.Y. in the U.S. I programed in c about 10 =
years=20
ago for my keyboard which was the Synergy from Digital Keyboards. The =
company is=20
no longer in existance. I also used a software sequencer called =
Sequencer Plus=20
from Voyetra. (which is not available any more)
Anyway, I have a =
400mhz Pent=20
II, running Windows 98. I have Visual C++, and thought I would get =
back=20
into programing music.
One question I =
had was which=20
way to proceed. I also came across SAOL and wondered if anyone could =
give me a=20
comparison of csound and SAOL.
&nbs=
p; =
; =
=20
See Ya,
&nbs=
p; =
; =
=20
Chazzz
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From: Paul Winkler
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Nicola Bernardini wrote:
> this problem was solved some 3-4 months ago. Could you please pick up
> a more recent version?
Thanks! DLP wrote the same advice, and I've now got 3.49 working with
MIDI input. It's great!
Regards,
PW
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Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:06:31 +0000
From: Olivier Pasquet
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Real time vocoding
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Hello,
Thank you for the advice. Actually, I am now using the Analogue Devices
Extended CSound card. The ZAK system does not work. So, I cannot use the Hans
Mikelson's vocoder. There is no warpblahblah (time stretching) opcode for
Extended Csound...
This is why I am looking for some kind of real time vocoders that are not
using FFT files.
I have another small problem concerning filters. For the same piece for mezzo
soprano, I am trying to filter her voice (in) using a Butterworth filter at
8000 Hz with a quite narrow band (100 Hz). I have the expected result with a
horrible resonation althought I am using balance. This hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii at 8
kH comes from the mic. I do not want to filter it because I want to keep the 8
kHz from the voice. I also have tried to use a noise gate but is does not do a
clean job. What can I do to avoid this resonation?
Thank you every body.
Olivier Pasquet.
--------------------
Olivier PASQUET -- APU -- Music Faculty
OP101@mercury.anglia.ac.uk
www.sinclair.anglia.ac.uk/~op101.student.cambridge.anglia
-------------------- |