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Re: Manual....

Date1997-02-15 02:01
FromLawrence Troxler
SubjectRe: Manual....
On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Robin Whittle wrote:

> I really like Microsoft 
> Word.  I see the electronic form of the manual as important, but what 
> it looks like on paper is the most important thing for me.  Of course 
> it should look that way on screen too.
> 
You really like Microsoft Word??? Great, then I'll pay you to do my
customer manuals at my day job, which are required to be in "Word". I hate
the thing. I hate it because it isn't a markup language. If I want
something to be heading level 1, I want to be able to type, "

Chapter 1 - How to pick your nose<~H1>", or something similar. This way I can write something in C, or Perl, or whatever, to automate things. > Plain ASCII is an non-starter as far as I am concerned for a serious > manual. You need diagrams, bold-face, headings, italics, different > fonts etc. > Why do you need diagrams, bold-face, headings, italics, different fonts, etc? Diagrams, ok, I can see the point. But the rest of that stuff, I just don't see it. I do just fine with something I can grep, thank you anyway. > I understand that my ugens will be incorporated into a forthcoming > "official" Csound version from John Fitch. The documentation for > them is in various ASCII files in the .zip file at my Web site. > Good. I hope so - I could use'em. (And see, you probably thought I'd be disagreeing with you on everything!) Larry -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA --


Date1997-02-15 12:32
FromRobin Whittle
SubjectRe: Manual....
Regarding Csound manual formats:

I don't know what SGML is, but if it was chosen by the Linux crew, 
and it can be converted into various things including HTML, then it 
sounds worth looking into.

I am a stickler for typography and layout.  I really like Microsoft 
Word.  I see the electronic form of the manual as important, but what 
it looks like on paper is the most important thing for me.  Of course 
it should look that way on screen too.

Being able to put page breaks where you want, have headings, tabs, 
fixed width fonts (though how do you do tabs properly with courier) 
and various typefaces is fantastic.

Word can be converted to PDF if you buy the program, which I haven't. 
Of course it can be converted to Postscript.  Both conversions 
make assumptions about page size for printing.

Carefully laid out Word files also make assumptions about page
size.  A problem is that one or two countries are A4-challenged
and stick with smaller "Letter" size paper.

HTML has its problems, like not being able to easily do propotional
space text that looks like this:


Indented heading   Text, text, text, text to a fixed margin
                   text, text etc etc etc etc to that margin

However, HTML has a *lot* to be said for it.  

Plain ASCII is an non-starter as far as I am concerned for a serious 
manual. You need diagrams, bold-face, headings, italics, different 
fonts etc.

If everyone had a Word viewer, or Word could translate its output to 
HTML, with all formatting intact then I would vote for that, but HTML 
can't do all the formatting.  I don't think you can even force 
page-breaks.

Unless SGML has important advantages, and can be written by most 
potential Csound authors, then I vote for people creating HTML by 
whatever means they like, following a generally agreed formatting, 
and submitting their file to an online manual maintainer to put it in 
a particular location in a WWW site.

Ideally the manual would have just a lot of reasonable sized (2 to 50 
k ?) files, all in one directory, but as the thing grows, there will 
probably need to be sub-directories.  

We probably need to use long file names for the HTML files, not just
MSDOS 8.3 style names.  

This way there could be a single WWW site with the "Official Csound 
Manual" consisting of:

HTML files (maybe produced from SGML?)

ASCII text files  including example .orc, .sco and .C files. 

.GIF and .JPG files for graphics.  

There could even be short audio files could be there too.

Then Net connected users can read and print at will. In the long term 
future most of us will be permanently net-connected. 

There should also be Gzip format .zip versions of the manual 
available. They can be unzipped on any platform Csound is likely to 
run on (I think).  This means people can download the entire manual 
as a single .zip file and unzip it, sub-directories and all, on their 
own machine.

If graphics, .orc, .sco and audio files become bulky, then there 
could be two or more versions of the .zip files - with and without 
these file types.

I understand that my ugens will be incorporated into a forthcoming 
"official" Csound version from John Fitch.  The documentation for 
them is in various ASCII files in the .zip file at my Web site.

If there is a single, unified Csound manual approach, I would be very 
happy to rewrite these to the required format (in terms of layout, 
style, method of explaining the op-code etc.) in the require file 
type - which I imagine will be HTML with graphics as required.


- Robin

. Robin Whittle                                               .
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