Csound Csound-dev Csound-tekno Search About

Music Is?

Date1998-02-11 07:36
FromKen Locarnini
SubjectMusic Is?
> Yes. Those who strive for the ultimate imitation of natural music by
> computers are losers. Music
> is something spiritual IN THE FIRST PLACE. It cannot be replaced by a set
> of digital chips producing
> a stream of numbers based on algorithms. True music is always a FYSICAL
> interaction between
> the player and it's instrument(s). 
> 
> David.
	This is one of the main problems with computor music and CSound in
general, is that you cannot interact with something that is not realtime. 
At least with midi, one can play in one part and then interact by recording
another using physical controllers.  Physical controllers instead of being
a limitation transmit emotion from our bodies into sound.  The physical
interaction in my opinion and experiences, produces better music.  Music
that is extremely processed sounds boring.  Just like too many overdubs in
a studio.  That is why I am gratefull to people like Gabriel Maldenado who
are working hard on making CSound a realtime instrument.  Then we could
concentrate on sound design but then actually interact with these sounds by
playing them.  This to me is very healthy.   


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
The Renew Eden Project
"You will see it, when you believe it."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Date1998-02-12 17:11
FromBob Pritchard
SubjectRe: Music Is?
On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Ken Locarnini wrote:
> 	This is one of the main problems with computor music and CSound in
> general, is that you cannot interact with something that is not realtime. 

Hmm, this list isn't realtime...

Most orchestral composers don't work in real time...

Of course, "real time" can be rather subjective and contextual...

Was Canada's gold medal snowboarder operating in real time or not? :-)

Date1998-02-12 18:11
FromMicheal Allen Thompson
SubjectRe: Music Is?
Ok, next thread! All Im going to say is that interactive computer music
is only one form of the art. Its healthy to have many different forms of 
art not just one.


Michael

On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Ken Locarnini wrote:

> > Yes. Those who strive for the ultimate imitation of natural music by
> > computers are losers. Music
> > is something spiritual IN THE FIRST PLACE. It cannot be replaced by a set
> > of digital chips producing
> > a stream of numbers based on algorithms. True music is always a FYSICAL
> > interaction between
> > the player and it's instrument(s). 
> > 
> > David.
> 	This is one of the main problems with computor music and CSound in
> general, is that you cannot interact with something that is not realtime. 
> At least with midi, one can play in one part and then interact by recording
> another using physical controllers.  Physical controllers instead of being
> a limitation transmit emotion from our bodies into sound.  The physical
> interaction in my opinion and experiences, produces better music.  Music
> that is extremely processed sounds boring.  Just like too many overdubs in
> a studio.  That is why I am gratefull to people like Gabriel Maldenado who
> are working hard on making CSound a realtime instrument.  Then we could
> concentrate on sound design but then actually interact with these sounds by
> playing them.  This to me is very healthy.   
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> The Renew Eden Project
> "You will see it, when you believe it."
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> 
> 

Date1998-02-13 11:33
FromPer Villez
SubjectRe: Music Is?
to discard our intellectual inheritence is at worst to say that it is
better we keep ourselves stupid and not learn new ways to exercise or
expand our mental/imaginative abilities.  Music is not just about physical
response or physical ability. To be able to imaginatively manipulate all
sound possibilities is one of our greatest  achievements, and something
that many take for granted. It has been facilitated for us by some very
creative and imaginative people many of whom are brilliant acoustic
musicians. Computer music activity fuels the intellect, stimulates the body
(remember it comes back in through our ears). That  SPIRITUALITY has a
monopoly on music is at the very least naive. I earn a living from playing
live music (flamenco/latin guitar) . Last year I played 260 gigs!. It is
not always spiritual. Sometimes it is just a job, a service. The real world
of making music professionally has little to do with spirituality. There
are many reasons for making or playing music. But as much as I love the
physical interaction between the guitar and myself it does not exclude
other musical/sonic worlds from existing, nor should it. per

>> Yes. Those who strive for the ultimate imitation of natural music by
>> computers are losers. Music
>> is something spiritual IN THE FIRST PLACE. It cannot be replaced by a set
>> of digital chips producing
>> a stream of numbers based on algorithms. True music is always a FYSICAL
>> interaction between
>> the player and it's instrument(s).
>>
>> David.
>	This is one of the main problems with computor music and CSound in
>general, is that you cannot interact with something that is not realtime.
>At least with midi, one can play in one part and then interact by recording
>another using physical controllers.  Physical controllers instead of being
>a limitation transmit emotion from our bodies into sound.  The physical
>interaction in my opinion and experiences, produces better music.  Music
>that is extremely processed sounds boring.  Just like too many overdubs in
>a studio.  That is why I am gratefull to people like Gabriel Maldenado who
>are working hard on making CSound a realtime instrument.  Then we could
>concentrate on sound design but then actually interact with these sounds by
>playing them.  This to me is very healthy.
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>The Renew Eden Project
>"You will see it, when you believe it."
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----






Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa13985;
          13 Feb 98 14:23 GMT
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04701;
          13 Feb 98 14:22 GMT
Received: (qmail 670 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 14:22:54 -0000
Received: from mail-relay2.ja.net (193.63.105.201)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 14:22:54 -0000
Received: from exeter.ac.uk (actually host hermes.ex.ac.uk) by mail-relay2.ja.net with NRS SMTP (PP); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:00:05 +0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA19858); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:38:55 GMT
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 11:38:33 GMT
Received: from mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209] by hermes via ESMTP (LAA12225); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:38:24 GMT
Received: from rasmus (dialup235-2-10.swipnet.se [130.244.235.74]) 
          by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP 
          id MAA23023 for ; 
          Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:38:23 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <34E43101.1E6F@hexagon.se>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:39:45 +0100
From: rasmus ekman 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: percussive designs (and the files for marimba/agogobel?)
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Brian Redfern wrote:
> 
> I'm a csound newcomer, just wondering about the best 
> ways to try to make realistic drum sounds.

Use samples (with loscil)- and even with very good 
sampled sounds, it's a pain to make the drumming 
sound reasonably realistic. Generally, Csound is 
probably not the best tool for imitating traditional 
instruments.

You could try the opcode pluck, but it is better
for string sounds than drum. Among the very new
opcodes (You need version 3.47 for this to work),
there one called "marimba", but according to the
docs it wants some sample to work.

Is this true, and if so, where could we get the 
mentioned files "marmstk1.wav" and "britestk.wav"?


Regards,

	re



Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14232;
          13 Feb 98 15:10 GMT
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06868;
          13 Feb 98 15:09 GMT
Received: (qmail 20168 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 15:09:58 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 15:09:58 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA01720); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:49:42 GMT
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 14:49:22 GMT
Received: from newton1.bathspa.ac.uk [194.81.80.17] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA23841); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:49:16 GMT
Received: from bathspa.ac.uk ([194.81.81.98]) by newton1.bathspa.ac.uk
          (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01)  with ESMTP id 369;
          Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:49:34 +0000
Message-Id: <34E4CDA8.AA8D276A@bathspa.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:48:09 -0800
From: Derek Pierce 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win16; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Jeremiah Thomas Isaacs 
Cc: Wayne Freno , Csound List 
Subject: Re: Csound recordings
References: 
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------388F2CBAE1937C9F39B96E31"
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk


--------------388F2CBAE1937C9F39B96E31
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by exeter.ac.uk id OAA23841

Hi
My name is Derek Pierce and I make music under the name Beatsystem. I hav=
e a
Cd EMIT2297 available worldwide on the Em:t label, the Cd was made almost
exclusively using csound, a review may be found on =
. I
hope you enjoy it, I would also welcome any feedback from the csound crow=
d.
Derek

Jeremiah Thomas Isaacs wrote:

> > Wayne Freno wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Are there any recordings in existance in which
> > > any part of the instrumentation is Csound?
> > > I want to see if I can get 'em locally.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > Wayne F.
>
> try available everywhere.  aphex twin _allegedly_ uses csound for most =
of
> the sounds on _Richard D. James_.  I say allegedly only because I have
> heard conflicting information. (more yea than nay, though, in fact one
> nay)
>
> worth listening to, if you can stand all that damned metricism. (:
>
>                                                   ---
>       jeremiah                                    jti0001@jove.acs.unt.=
edu
>                                                   people.unt.edu/~jti00=
01
> ---
> excuse me           but i just have to            explode
> explode this body   off me                        wake-up tomorrow
> brand new           a little tired                but brand new
>
>       bj=BFrk



--------------388F2CBAE1937C9F39B96E31
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Hi

My name is Derek Pierce and I make music under the name Beatsystem. I have a Cd EMIT2297 available worldwide on the Em:t label, the Cd was made almost exclusively using csound, a review may be found on <electronic music.com>. I hope you enjoy it, I would also welcome any feedback from the csound crowd.
Derek

Jeremiah Thomas Isaacs wrote:

> Wayne Freno wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Are there any recordings in existance in which
> > any part of the instrumentation is Csound?
> > I want to see if I can get 'em locally.  Thanks.
> >
> > Wayne F.

try available everywhere.  aphex twin _allegedly_ uses csound for most of
the sounds on _Richard D. James_.  I say allegedly only because I have
heard conflicting information. (more yea than nay, though, in fact one
nay)

worth listening to, if you can stand all that damned metricism. (:

                                                  ---
      jeremiah                                    jti0001@jove.acs.unt.edu
                                                  people.unt.edu/~jti0001
---
excuse me           but i just have to            explode
explode this body   off me                        wake-up tomorrow
brand new           a little tired                but brand new

      bj¿rk

  --------------388F2CBAE1937C9F39B96E31--   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14644; 13 Feb 98 16:37 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10313; 13 Feb 98 16:37 GMT Received: (qmail 2402 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 16:37:25 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 16:37:25 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA26605); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:15:03 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:14:40 GMT Received: from mercury.anglia.ac.uk [193.63.55.68] by hermes via SMTP (QAA17500); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:14:32 GMT Received: from Anglia-Message_Server by mercury.anglia.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:11:39 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:11:10 +0000 From: Olivier Pasquet To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Death of modern music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello again, I have to say something about a BIG problem in NEW music. Sorry, this is still not about CSound even if I am one of it fanatics. Don't you think nothing happened since maybe 15-20 years? OK, there are new sounds, new technics of composition and so on. But after having seen many and many concerts, I feel a bit like Varese. When I hear an electroacoustic piece, a atonal piece and all pieces that are sayed NEW, I think: Yes, and what... Nothing is new it always sounds nearly the same. This is an ambisonic sound, this is a stochastic thing... OK but it has been done already. Or if the technic is really new, it is not actually so new and usually sounds like in the 80s... Maybe we have been to quickly and with to much freedom. I do not know. In an other case, contemporary music is existing. Humanity will always have something to express but the way is not new. It is time to replace electrons by something else. Synthesis idea by something NEW. The time will say it. WHO CAN HELP ME?   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14684; 13 Feb 98 16:42 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10656; 13 Feb 98 16:42 GMT Received: (qmail 2418 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 16:42:17 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 16:42:17 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA27376); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:02:21 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 16:01:59 GMT Received: from mercury.anglia.ac.uk [193.63.55.68] by hermes via SMTP (QAA03372); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:01:53 GMT Received: from Anglia-Message_Server by mercury.anglia.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:58:48 +0000 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:58:22 +0000 From: Olivier Pasquet To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Experimental music you sayed??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello David, Don't you think that *experimental* music is not appropriate? Indeed, in electroacoustic compositions, the music is made by trying and trying again until the composer admits it sounds all right. I really think this way of composing is close to the scientist experimentation technics. An other "way" of composition is to write the music down and (make it) play it later on. In this case, there are two steps: the composition itself and then the rehearsal. The rehearsal seems to be experimental as well but, in this case, the composition itself does not follow the experimentation rules. Can we say it is experimental music? I know, you meant that the technics were experimental. It means the synthesis, the way of doing or playing it, the new axioms (predefined rules...) you gave to yourself. Or if you meant that the composition itself was experimental, I think we are always experimenting someway when composing. We are experimenting our ideas. In this case, all Arts are experimentation(s). Sot I am a bit disturbed when I speak about experimental music because we never know when it is and when it is not. We should use other words to avoid the mixing between the composition and its result, between the scientific experimentation and the artistic experimentation. Yours Olivier. -------------------------- Olivier Pasquet -- APU Cambridge -- op101@mercury.anglia.ac.uk http://www.sinclair.anglia.ac.uk/~op101.student.cambridge.anglia --------------------------   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14846; 13 Feb 98 17:23 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa12107; 13 Feb 98 17:23 GMT Received: (qmail 2547 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 17:23:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 17:23:05 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA13459); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:06:43 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 17:06:20 GMT Received: from puma.wmin.ac.uk [161.74.92.94] by hermes via SMTP (RAA16101); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:06:11 GMT Received: from leopard.wmin.ac.uk by puma.wmin.ac.uk with INTERNAL-SMTP (MMTA); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:00:07 +0000 Received: by leopard.wmin.ac.uk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA11620; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:05:21 GMT From: Ross Clement Message-Id: <199802131705.RAA11620@leopard.wmin.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Death of modern music To: Olivier Pasquet Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:05:18 +0000 (GMT) Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk In-Reply-To: from "Olivier Pasquet" at Feb 13, 98 04:11:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi. The CSound List introduction that I received said that I shoud write a short bio of myself. I'm a CSound novice, though I've done a fair bit of hobby synthesis over the years on a variety of instruments, mainly digital but also analogue. I've done the occasional bit of music synthesis programming too, mainly in C on Silicon Graphics machines. This year, I'm involved with some Sound for Multimedia courses for both undergraduate and graduate multimedia courses. We'll (I'm officially responsible for the courses, but a professional musician will be teaching most of the material (I'll be covering mainly a one hour tutorial on programming issues). However, what I've seen of CSound so far has knocked me out, and I'm really enthusiastic about using this incredibly powerful, if rather difficult to learn (I saw the quote 'vertical learning curve' somewhere) tool in my own (hobby) music. Being what's known in Japan as a 'Kuchi ga heranai yatsu' ('someone whose mouth never runs out'), I have to respond to one of the emails that I've received. Oliver wrote: > I have to say something about a BIG problem in NEW music. > Sorry, this is still not about CSound even if I am one of it fanatics. > > Don't you think nothing happened since maybe 15-20 years? OK, there are new > sounds, new technics of composition and so on. But after having seen many and > many concerts, I feel a bit like Varese. My opinion (for what it's worth) is, if you think this, then why don't you do something about it by inventing the new wave of music yourself? In popular music at least, it's said that sudden steps forward sometimes come after periods of stagnation (e.g. Beatles). I personally think that electronic dance music is where the most new ideas are evolving, but that's a popular music form, and those interested in more serious or academic music forms probably disagree. Could anyone point me towards academic resources concerning stochaistic/ generative music. In my ignorance I thought that the current application of this (not the concept itself, didn't Mozart write a paper on the composition of waltzes by the use of die?) was fairly new. As a fan of popular music, many of my preferred artists are those who take elements of more serious forms of music and present them in a more consumable form (Varese through Zappa, Minimalism through Eno etc.) What about interactive music, which is quite technically possible with modern technology? (E.g. I haven't yet learned how CSound interacts with realtime MIDI, but this should allow one aspect of interaction between the listener and the music). This isn't new, as live musicians and groups thereof can interact with their audience, but perhaps linking the listener directly into the guts of a synthesis engine itself would give quite different results. Personally I think that some modern techno music sounds (to my non-academic ears) more like (e.g.) African percussive music than traditional melody+ harmony, defined structure western music, based around complex interacting, evolving patters. But, it sounds quite different. If we wanted to, we could say that after Og the caveperson first made audio sounds for enjoyment, the concept of 'music' was old hat. (Prepares to be shot down in flames by the 'real' musicians :-)) Cheers, Ross-c   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15074; 13 Feb 98 18:19 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15915; 13 Feb 98 18:19 GMT Received: (qmail 11933 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 18:19:12 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 18:19:12 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA05723); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:07:09 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 18:06:52 GMT Received: from ella.mills.edu [144.91.3.20] by hermes via SMTP (SAA06001); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:06:45 GMT Received: (qmail 27846 invoked by uid 1964); 13 Feb 1998 10:06:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:06:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Matt J. Ingalls" Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Music Talk/Re: Death of modern music In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk what is that Varese quote about the two kinds of music: One kind should be played but never talked about and the other should be talked about and never played... > Don't you think nothing happened since maybe 15-20 years? OK, there are new maybe has to do with funding cuts and/or inflation... (at least in the US) i dont think its possible to exist as a mere composer (especially writing only "experimental" music) maybe it has to do with TV. and i have to add here my own recent dissappointment with "academic" music and music institutions (im thinking mostly in the US). i think at one point they were open to new forms of music - but try to present something not usually heard in their musical sphere today (im not even saying innovative).... (and im NOT talking about my personal experience here!) -matt   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15206; 13 Feb 98 19:26 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa26335; 13 Feb 98 19:26 GMT Received: (qmail 15454 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 19:26:48 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 19:26:48 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA22508); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:52:01 GMT Received: from dns0 by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 18:50:22 GMT Received: from root@[194.184.60.149] by sunny via ESMTP (SAA00908); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:46:39 GMT Received: (from nicb@localhost) by ax-nicb.axnet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA06954; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:42:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:42:46 +0100 (MET) From: Nicola Bernardini To: Csound mailing list Subject: Re: Linux Realtime MIDI input stream In-Reply-To: <199802042307.SAA14316@technomancer.MIT.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, David Ratajczak wrote: [snip] > > Is anyone out there working on a linux implementation of Maldonado's > csound or some other realtime variant? I would be interested to speak > with anyone else about this or other linux related topics. what are the differences between RTsound and csound, aside from running, as the name says, in real time? the very straightforward csound has been running for me in real time on linux since 3.36 (:-)) [snip] > Sadly, linux does fall a bit behind Win95 on the usability scale. > But linux is better :) come on! we just need to make MIDI work, that's all (besides, it could very well be running by now: I cannot help here because I do not have access to a MIDI interface). Nicola ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nicola Bernardini E-mail: nicb@axnet.it Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described with pictures.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15217; 13 Feb 98 19:32 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa26502; 13 Feb 98 19:32 GMT Received: (qmail 2936 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 19:32:20 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 19:32:20 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA19282); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:52:04 GMT Received: from dns0 by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 18:50:30 GMT Received: from root@[194.184.60.149] by sunny via ESMTP (SAA00914); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:46:44 GMT Received: (from nicb@localhost) by ax-nicb.axnet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA06992; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:48 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:48 +0100 (MET) From: Nicola Bernardini To: Csound mailing list Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking In-Reply-To: <34E00B53.395A10C6@agora.stm.it> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Gabriel Maldonado wrote: > Michael Gogins already proposed, some time ago, the same concept, > developing a Csound version which supports external dll loading. The > external library provided by Gogins includes all original C++ Perry Cook > tool-kit opcodes. > Then I linked Michael Gogins' external library support to Win95 realtime > MIDI Csound version (RTsound 1.9), so even my version supports external > DLL now. The > problem is how to extend the programming interface to all the other > platforms without introducing too many differences, so the sources of an > external > library of opcodes can be ported to all platforms without a too big > effort. I do not see where the too many differences would be: as in the graphics interface (which is far more diversified between X11, win95, mac, etc.) the thing to do is well known: make interface routines to dynamic loading (write a version for each platform), then the rest of the code (linked list of entry tables, etc.) is absolutely the same for all platforms. That'll make writing 3-4 functions for each platform, plus the portable code. The other idea would be to use a config file for csound, to speed up the loading and to let csound know which opcodes are available, along with a cache of the opcode libraries already loaded. > > Another thing I believe to be useful, is to open and close orchestra and > scores without having to restart Csound each time. In this case the time > of loading will be reduced and this will help us especially when writing > and testing new osc/scos. Any idea? well, this would imply running an eval loop and an in-line editor (a` la lisp, to be clear). Now *this* implies some work, especially considering the way the parser is presently written (and has always been, as far as I know): it's absolutely impossible to modify and maintain that section of code the way it is written. Which brings me to another subject: is the csound community interested in attempting a backward-compatible re-write of the parser using decent tools like lex (flex) and yacc (bison)? This would allow, after rebuilding the parser, much better possibilities in extending the language for important things like array variables, better conditionals, sub-patching (instrument stacking), parameter field passing with strings, numbers, variables, etc. Can you imagine what csound would be like with these constructs? It would have the same impact as switching from fortran-like Music V to csound itself! I am available to put some effort into this, but I would like to understand from this list if this is something effectively useful to the community (I won't do it for the sake of doing it, I don't care). I see this list spends a lot of bandwith in discerning the intentions of =cwlabs42! (or whatever her/his name is) or discussing the true nature of music, but rarely (almost never) replies to these questions. Nicola ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nicola Bernardini E-mail: nicb@axnet.it Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described with pictures.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15247; 13 Feb 98 19:43 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa26809; 13 Feb 98 19:42 GMT Received: (qmail 16003 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 19:42:53 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 19:42:53 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA25237); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:26:08 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 19:25:50 GMT Received: from root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA17202); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:25:43 GMT Received: from charlieb.com (baker@baker.vip.best.com [206.86.232.121]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id LAA19918 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:21:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <34E42C71.BDB221F2@charlieb.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:20:17 +0000 From: Charles Baker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound mailing list Subject: RE: Death of Modern Music Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Ross-c wrote: >Personally I think that some modern techno music sounds (to my non-academic >ears) more like (e.g.) African percussive music than traditional melody+ >harmony, defined structure western music, based around complex interacting, >evolving patters. But, it sounds quite different. . >(Prepares to be shot down in flames by the 'real' musicians :-)) Well, first off, I may have a Ph.D. in music composition, and played in many professional orchestras for years.so I guess I call myself a "real" musician.. ..*but* I would be the first to admit the "real-ness" of the musicianship of (*many* but not all!) popular musicians. And I think you've hit at the heart of the biggest movement in both art and pop music today: the rise of the 'African" rhythmic musical paradigm.(I quote African, because don't tell the indian Tabla player or the player in the village Gamelan that their music isn't a heavily/"primarily" rhythmic music. And a lot of the interest in rhythm in modern "art" music is from these sources, rather than African...) I feel music can be found/"used" in many different social/human activities, and I don't feel any one expression of music is ideal for all these, but I still feel they are all valid to some degree within their environment. I don't expect Varese to be appropriate or popular in a popular dance venue, and I don't really want to listen to F.S.O.L. sitting down in a dark concert hall, but hearing a good live performance of Hyperprism is, for me, a true peak experience, and a well-done techno CD or wailing blues album can be just the ticket for a busy dish washing or house dusting session. And I don't judge! One cannot live on an exalted peak of complex listening (eg: the Eliot Carter Double Concerto live at Ojai festival) twenty four hours a day, 365 days a year! We all have to wash clothes, we all have moments where "high" art is too much, in-appropriate, and just plain silly! On the other hand, to those who welcome a "serious" composer's open support of popular music styles, REMEMBER: a) the 90% rule holds. only about 10% of any art form/style is good. b) If all you know is the popular styles, you really are missing some amazing music. It's not just "bloop-bleep", and not all dissonance is "ugly" or "wrong". That's *why* musicians like Zappa and Eno have had their music influenced by "serious" modern music. To open one's ear's to new styles of music takes effort. Musicians at my conservatory-style music school had a great deal of trouble opening up to the ethnomusicology dept. and the wild new ensembles it brought in. But after a few years, and a little effort, it (ethnomusicology) has become one of the jewels of the school, and (mostly) visiting shakuhatchi players are treated with the same respect shown someone like Emanual Ax (pianist). In some ways, on this list, I'm "preaching to the converted"...but a few notes have clearly shown displeasure at modern music... if it bores you, then you havn't found/listened to the good stuff. *OR* (more likely), you bring too much baggage to the listening experience. Open up. As for "nothing new"... listen to "Cappricio Stravaganza" by ...hm. forget... mid-baroque composer. MANY "extended-performing-techniques" in that work! (Ca. mid 17th cent.) Does that invalidate Stockhausen's 1950's experiments? There's nothing new and everything is constantly new...how 'new' is your heart? "...and every moment is a new and shocking valuation of all we have been..." T.S. Elliot, _Four Quartets_ Pax, CharlieB   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15285; 13 Feb 98 19:53 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa27145; 13 Feb 98 19:53 GMT Received: (qmail 16316 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 19:53:15 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 19:53:15 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA16680); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:41:51 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 19:41:35 GMT Received: from root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA23534); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:41:25 GMT Received: from charlieb.com (baker@baker.vip.best.com [206.86.232.121]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id LAA03007 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:39:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <34E430BE.B5DA59A6@charlieb.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:38:39 +0000 From: Charles Baker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound mailing list Subject: Re: Death of Modern Music Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >As for "nothing new"... listen to "Cappricio Stravaganza" by ...hm. >forget... >mid-baroque composer. MANY "extended-performing-techniques" in that >work! >(Ca. mid 17th cent.) Carlos Farina ...(I think....? any help? it's a cool piece...) CharlieB   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15343; 13 Feb 98 20:26 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28093; 13 Feb 98 20:25 GMT Received: (qmail 17313 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 20:26:00 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 20:26:00 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA04803); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:58:30 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 19:58:13 GMT Received: from hermes.lsi.usp.br [143.107.161.220] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA22946); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:58:03 GMT Received: from foligno.lsi.usp.br (foligno.lsi.usp.br [10.0.161.20]) by hermes.lsi.usp.br (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03344 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:56:18 -0200 (BDB) Message-Id: <34E4A793.D6DFB87@lsi.usp.br> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:05:43 -0200 From: Ruggero Andrea Ruschioni X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: roaches... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, it seems that the kfreq argument on all waveguide opcodes is in fact not accepting kvalues. Example: kfreq line 220,2,440 aflute wgflute 30000, kfreq, 0.32, 0.1, 0.1, 0.15, 5.925, 0.05, 1 ^^^^ This doesn't work for me, my csound gets stucked forever. If I substitute kfreq for an i-value it works. I tried winsound 3.473, RTsound1.9 and csound.exe 3.473 on a pentium133. Our Unix machines commited suicide today (friday 13th) so I didn't test this on SGIs, Linux or SUNs. Also, on RTsound1.9 I was trying the following to test moscil: ------------------------------------------ instr 1 kchn = int (rnd(16)) knum = int (rnd(127)) kvel = int (rnd(127)) kdur = rnd(2) kpause = rnd(1) moscil kchn, knum, kvel, kdur, kpause endin ------------------------------------------ compiled with: csound -odevaudio -Q[x] orc sco with many serious and non-seriou experimantal values for [x]: it always crashes! (this program performed an illegal operation...blah...blah...) Whats the catch? Thanx, RR   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15384; 13 Feb 98 20:49 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28824; 13 Feb 98 20:49 GMT Received: (qmail 18690 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 20:49:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 20:49:05 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA07503); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:26:19 GMT Received: from dns0 by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 20:26:02 GMT Received: from [193.121.99.70] by sunny via ESMTP (UAA01027); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:22:33 GMT Received: from nobody ([193.74.7.190]) by hurricane.netgate.be (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-32575U60) with ESMTP id AAA211 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:19:40 +0100 From: David Schuyeteneer To: csound mailing list Subject: unwanted "line" sweepback Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:13:56 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19980213201932331.AAA211@nobody> Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I try to pitchdown a loscil unit with a line opcode but it sweeps back pitching up !! I don't understand this because i clearly set the idur of the line to p3 and not p3/2 or something... Please explain me this fellow Csounders... orc & sco are included below and the needed soundfile was 710kb, a little too much...so create a soundfile yourself of 363791 sampleframes at 16bit at 44100 Hz. David. *** ORC ********************* ******************************* sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 1 ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ; ; loscil test instrument. ; ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- instr 1 khold oscil 50,0.3,2 kvib randh 1,abs(khold) kdown line 1,p3,-5 ; loscil xamp, kcps, ifn,[ibasefreq,][imod1, ibeg, iend] a1 loscil 10000, 1+kvib, 1, 1 , 1, 0, 363790 a2 loscil 10000, kdown, 1, 1 , 1, 0, 363790 out a1+a2 endin *** SCO ********************* ******************************* ;GEN 01 : soundfile input ;f# time size 1 filcod skiptime format channel f1 0 0 1 "speak3.aif" 0 0 0 f2 0 256 10 1 i1 0 30 e   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15480; 13 Feb 98 21:21 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29841; 13 Feb 98 21:21 GMT Received: (qmail 20243 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 21:21:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 21:21:05 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA05413); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:03:21 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 21:03:06 GMT Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (VAA17611); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:03:00 GMT Received: from xenakis.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.97.36] (mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.80 #1) id 0y3SG5-0001C6-00; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:02:53 +0000 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 21:01:50 GMT From: J.P.ffitch@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: GENs To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 13 Feb 1998 13:03:48 +0000 In-reply-to: (Allotropa@aol.com) References: >>>>> "Allotropa" == Allotropa writes: ... Allotropa> But I'm wondering why the score files contain info on the sounds, i.e. the GEN Allotropa> routines. It seems like the score file should just have notes as well as Allotropa> other info to control the instruments, and the orchestra file should have all Allotropa> info about the instruments the score plays, including the sound that Allotropa> instrument produces. Why this inconsistency? Why is info on the sound of Allotropa> instruments spread across both files? nearly every one asks this question -- surely one for the FAQ! The distinction is that the orchestra information is static, compiled at definition time. The score is dynamic, and the data comes into existence "just in time" and can be deleted. This was very important on machines without much memory -- I can remember when my university bought its second megabyte, and it cost about $60,000 -- and so this was a real consideration. The latest version of csound have the ability to place tables in the orchestra with the ftgen opcode, in part in response to the increasing availability of memory, and in part so a MIDI-only set of events do not need a score. This last facility is an Extended Csound feature -- I think one still needs a score of an f0 in the standard system. ==John ff   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15504; 13 Feb 98 21:33 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00110; 13 Feb 98 21:33 GMT Received: (qmail 3125 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 21:33:24 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 21:33:24 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA15302); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:25:38 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 21:25:21 GMT Received: from triton.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.28] by hermes via ESMTP (VAA23588); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:25:15 GMT Received: from PC_hcp.worldonline.nl (zwl1-p83.worldonline.nl [195.241.133.83]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA17181; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:24:59 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <34E42C71.BDB221F2@charlieb.com> References: Conversation <34E42C71.BDB221F2@charlieb.com> with last message <34E42C71.BDB221F2@charlieb.com> Priority: Normal X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: Charles Baker Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Hans Pelleboer Subject: Re: Death of Modern Music Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:21:38 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > > As for "nothing new"... listen to "Cappricio Stravaganza" by ...hm. > forget... Farina Yours, Hans Pelleboer   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15720; 13 Feb 98 22:40 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01957; 13 Feb 98 22:40 GMT Received: (qmail 3250 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 22:40:18 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA23771); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:32:02 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:31:00 GMT Received: from triton.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.28] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA04564); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:30:40 GMT Received: from PC_hcp.worldonline.nl (zwl1-p9.worldonline.nl [195.241.133.9]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06675 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:30:46 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: Priority: Normal X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Hans Pelleboer Subject: monitoring Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:48:21 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello again, Does anyone know of a tool that would allow me calculate and print out characteristics of long soundfiles like e.g. loudness in db or so? All the soundeditors I have seen thus far can deal only with short files or will neither allow me to print out the resulting graphs nor spit out an ASCII file to process later. Hans Pelleboer   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15727; 13 Feb 98 22:40 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01973; 13 Feb 98 22:40 GMT Received: (qmail 3253 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 22:40:28 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 22:40:28 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA21635); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:32:02 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:31:01 GMT Received: from triton.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.28] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA02631); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:30:36 GMT Received: from PC_hcp.worldonline.nl (zwl1-p9.worldonline.nl [195.241.133.9]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06652 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:30:42 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: Priority: Normal X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Hans Pelleboer Subject: convolution Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:43:51 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, Is there a way in Csound to perform dynamic convolution with an external file that contains a concatenated set of filter coefficients? Hans Pelleboer   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15746; 13 Feb 98 22:50 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02233; 13 Feb 98 22:49 GMT Received: (qmail 3268 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 22:49:57 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 22:49:57 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA27393); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:38:18 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:37:53 GMT Received: from triton.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.28] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA22900); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:37:46 GMT Received: from PC_hcp.worldonline.nl (zwl1-p9.worldonline.nl [195.241.133.9]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06691; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:30:50 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980212.230930.3574.0.jhclouse@juno.com> References: Conversation <19980212.230930.3574.0.jhclouse@juno.com> with last message <19980212.230930.3574.0.jhclouse@juno.com> Priority: Normal X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: Jason H Clouse Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Hans Pelleboer Subject: Re: Compositions for acoustic instruments and "tape" Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 23:22:38 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Jason Clouse wrote: > Just a quick thought here. I've been to performances combining live > acoustic instruments with taped electronic parts. I understand the > original reason for using analog tape, but why do people still do it? > I'm always distracted by the horrible sound quality and tape hiss at > these performances. Nowadays, it makes more sense to record these things > digitally on CD or even DAT. There are a couple reasons that people stick to tape: [1] There is an intrinsic physicality to tape --measuring, splicing-- which is lacking in the rather abstract interaction with a computer console. Working with tape is somehow a `whole body experience' punching in a number like "300 seconds" gives you way less feel for the temporal dimension than measuring out the apprx. 100 meters of tape @15ips that represent the same duration. [2] Proper recorded tape on well aligned and setup tape machines is extremely quiet. I realize that I am entering an area that belongs more to Hifi debates but since computer music deals also to large degree with perception, it must be mentioned. Tape noise, being uncorrelated noise, i.e. having no temporal relation to the program material, is way less annoying than digitally generated noise that chops its way literally into the sound. I do realize that most playback systems and recorders fall short significantlyof what's possible. I agree, many tapes during concerts sound just awful. [3] The higher frequency range and temporal resolution of tape recordings compared to the present day digital standard also add to the preceived spatial resolution of the recording. This translates to a recording with more `body' and a larger auditory image. Given all the horrors that are happening to the temporal resolution in recordings treated with new compression schemes like the extended MPEG, I am wondering if in the years to come there will even be people left that can hear the difference, after having been subjected to bad stereo all their lifes. Hope this helped somewhat, Yours Hans Pelleboer   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15752; 13 Feb 98 22:50 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02256; 13 Feb 98 22:50 GMT Received: (qmail 3271 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 22:50:17 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 22:50:17 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA01869); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:32:05 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:30:53 GMT Received: from triton.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.28] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA06692); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:30:33 GMT Received: from PC_hcp.worldonline.nl (zwl1-p9.worldonline.nl [195.241.133.9]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06633 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:30:38 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: Priority: Normal X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Hans Pelleboer Subject: trajectories Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:35:15 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello all, As I read a number of messages recently about using trajectories over n-dimensional surfaces, I would like to present a problem, that I have wrestled with for quite a while: Imagine a spiral like a cochleoid; i.e. a curve that is described in polar coordinates as r(theta)= r*(sin(theta)/(theta)) If an arbitrary straight line would cross this curve, what equation would describe its crossing points? The problem could be generalized as: how to translate the description of curves in rectangular coordinates to polar coordinates and vice versa? Any suggestions ? Hans Pelleboer   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15769; 13 Feb 98 22:57 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02472; 13 Feb 98 22:56 GMT Received: (qmail 3277 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 22:56:55 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 22:56:55 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA14148); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:32:20 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:31:56 GMT Received: from triton.worldonline.nl [194.151.128.28] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA04088); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:31:43 GMT Received: from PC_hcp.worldonline.nl (zwl1-p9.worldonline.nl [195.241.133.9]) by triton.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06780; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:31:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Conversation <19980211193644.19379.qmail@hotmail.com> with last message Priority: Normal X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: Dave LaDelfa Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 From: Hans Pelleboer Subject: Re: Whither music? Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 23:29:47 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk David LaDelfa wrote: > > All "experiences" are chemically induced, actually. What did you eat for > breakfast? I think you are confusing the medium with the message here: an experience is not chemically induced; it is conveyed through physical chemical means. After a sound wave has been transported to your --hopefully functional!-- cochlea, the generated action potential is indeed the result of a number of chemical processes -- that would not have been set in motion were it not for the original stimulus. Hans Pelleboer P.S I think I like Wronsky's definition of music still best: Music is intelligence embodied in sound.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15781; 13 Feb 98 23:02 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02636; 13 Feb 98 23:02 GMT Received: (qmail 3297 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 23:02:10 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 23:02:10 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA17428); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:53:17 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 22:52:59 GMT Received: from cbgw1.lucent.com [207.24.196.51] by hermes via SMTP (WAA24399); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:52:53 GMT Received: from mtm3.mt.lucent.com by cbig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id LAA04717; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:51:33 -0500 Received: from sdcpc2.mt.lucent.com by mtm3.mt.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.3.1 sol2) id LAA18753; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:51:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980213115429.0083d100@mtm3.mt.lucent.com> X-Sender: sdcurtin@mtm3.mt.lucent.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:54:29 -0500 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Steven Curtin Subject: Re: Experimental music you sayed??? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >Don't you think that *experimental* music is not appropriate? My composition teacher David Rosenboom always disliked the term "Experimental Music". We were both at the Experimental Music Studios at Illinois at various times. As Varese said "first I experiment, then I make the music". Rosenboom liked the term "Propositional Music", as in music that says "how about this?...". Steve C -------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Curtin http://www.emf.org/people_curtin.html Lucent Technologies - Bell Labs Innovations rm. 3C-208, 200 Laurel Ave S Middletown, NJ 07748-4801 U S A ph: (732)957-2996 fax: (732)957-6878 --------------------------------------------------------------   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15916; 14 Feb 98 0:04 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04239; 14 Feb 98 0:03 GMT Received: (qmail 28498 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 00:03:54 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 00:03:55 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA12769); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:55:55 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 13 Feb 98 23:55:38 GMT Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (XAA04563); Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:55:32 GMT Received: (qmail 26833 invoked from network); 13 Feb 1998 23:51:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.124) by jaguars with SMTP; 13 Feb 1998 23:51:33 -0000 Message-Id: <34E4DAF0.8DDDBE27@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:44:49 +0000 From: Richard Dobson Reply-To: RWD@cableinet.co.uk Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Pelleboer , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Whither music? References: Conversation <19980211193644.19379.qmail@hotmail.com> with last message Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hans Pelleboer wrote: > > > P.S I think I like Wronsky's definition of music still best: > Music is intelligence embodied in sound. I do like this one very much - can you give me the reference? However, it works less well in one unusual circumstance, where plants have been observed to prefer certain types of music, by leaning towards, or away from, the speakers. I also recall seeing a program which featured a farmer playing music to his cows (I think it was Mozart), who showed their appreciation by an increased milk yield. Truly we are living in an Age of wonders! Richard Dobson   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15949; 14 Feb 98 0:17 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04648; 14 Feb 98 0:17 GMT Received: (qmail 29004 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 00:17:25 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 00:17:25 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA07264); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:08:59 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 00:08:42 GMT Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (AAA15446); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:08:36 GMT Received: (qmail 27159 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 00:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.124) by jaguars with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 00:04:37 -0000 Message-Id: <34E4DE01.AD7C6C90@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 23:57:53 +0000 From: Richard Dobson Reply-To: RWD@cableinet.co.uk Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Pelleboer Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: convolution References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk It would be good to have a time-domain convolution - the convolve opcode needs a spectral domain (FFT) file. Perhaps, if your data set is small, you could read it into a table from a file via Gen1. You would need to be able to create that file, of course - I suppose you could use Csound for that too? Richard Dobson Hans Pelleboer wrote: > Hello, > > Is there a way in Csound to perform dynamic convolution with an external > file that contains a concatenated set of filter coefficients? > > Hans Pelleboer   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16069; 14 Feb 98 1:21 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06353; 14 Feb 98 1:21 GMT Received: (qmail 1792 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 01:21:40 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 01:21:40 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA05608); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:11:49 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 01:11:35 GMT Received: from GS160.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.203.172] by hermes via SMTP (BAA10493); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:11:28 GMT Message-Id: <199802140111.BAA10493@hermes> Subject: Re: trajectories To: Csound mailing list Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:10:45 -0500 (EST) From: Eli Brandt In-Reply-To: from "Hans Pelleboer" at Feb 13, 98 10:35:15 pm X-Portmanteau: pantryptaminergeticallysisterrainbowtie X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-40] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hans Pelleboer wrote: > Imagine a spiral like a cochleoid; i.e. a curve that is described in polar > coordinates as r(theta)= r*(sin(theta)/(theta)) > If an arbitrary straight line would cross this curve, what equation would > describe its crossing points? The problem could be generalized as: > how to translate the description of curves in rectangular coordinates to > polar > coordinates and vice versa? /| / | r / | y / | and the angle in there is theta /_\__| x so x = r cos theta y = r sin theta or r = sqrt(x^2 + y^2) theta = arctan(y/x) + quadrantfudging a line is ax + by = 1 substituting, a(r cos theta) + b(r sin theta) = 1 or r = 1 / (a cos theta + b sin theta) ideally we could just solve this simultaneously with your equation r'= k sin theta' / theta' but there's a catch: often not all intersections are simultaneous solutions of the two. for example, if r' = r and theta' = theta+2pi, that's still an intersection. you end up having to allow r' = r, theta' = theta + pi 2n and also r' = -r, theta' = theta + pi (2n+1) in this case, that results in (a cos theta + b sin theta) sin(theta) - theta = 0 (a cos theta + b sin theta) sin(theta + pi) + (theta + pi) = 0 (a cos theta + b sin theta) sin(theta - pi) + (theta - pi) = 0 (a cos theta + b sin theta) sin(theta + 2pi) - (theta + 2pi) = 0 (a cos theta + b sin theta) sin(theta - 2pi) - (theta - 2pi) = 0 . . . etc. the easiest thing is to graph the curves to see how many solutions there are to find from this infinite family of equations. here they're analytically intractable, so you'll need the graph anyway to get guesses for your solver. -- Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16197; 14 Feb 98 2:49 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa12390; 14 Feb 98 2:49 GMT Received: (qmail 4547 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 02:49:42 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 02:49:42 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA20046); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:31:09 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 02:30:52 GMT Received: from howl.werewolf.net [206.103.224.20] by hermes via SMTP (CAA13568); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:30:45 GMT Received: from @werewolf.net by howl.werewolf.net via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) for id UAA18368; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:30:43 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.3.16.19980213202957.382f3842@werewolf.net> X-Sender: hljmm@werewolf.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (16) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:29:57 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Hans Mikelson Subject: Re: Orbits 4D Examples In-Reply-To: <9802131629.AA01241@sndart.cemi.unt.edu> References: <3.0.3.16.19980212215036.38df3c74@werewolf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, In instrument 4 the orbit is a coiled path traced out on the surface of a torus. This is then used to reference the 4D surface. With instrument 5 the coordinates are sent to a 4D rotation instrument so a stereo image is created. Bye, Hans Mikelson ; ORCHESTRA ; Terrain Mapping ; Coded by Hans Mikelson February 13, 1998 ; sr=22050 kr=2205 ksmps=10 nchnls=2 zakinit 50, 50 ; 4D ; w=sin^2*(sqrt(x^2+y^2+z^2)) instr 4 idur = p3 iamp = p4 ifqc = cpspch(p5) kdclick linseg 0, .002, iamp, idur-.004, iamp, .002, 0 krminor linseg .5, idur/2, 5, idur/2, .5 krmajor = krminor+1 asin1 oscil krminor, ifqc, 1 acos1 oscil krminor, ifqc, 1, .25 asin2 oscil krmajor, ifqc/4, 1 acos2 oscil krmajor, ifqc/4, 1, .25 ax = asin1+acos2 ay = acos1 az = asin2 az1 = sin(sqrt(ax*ax+ay*ay+az*az)) ; Compute the surface az = az1*az1-.5 outs az*kdclick, az*kdclick endin ; 4D ; w=sin^2*(sqrt(x^2+y^2+z^2)) instr 5 idur = p3 iamp = p4 ifqc = cpspch(p5) ioutch1 = p6 ioutch2 = p7 ioutch3 = p8 ioutch4 = p9 kdclick linseg 0, .002, iamp, idur-.004, iamp, .002, 0 krminor linseg .5, idur/2, 5, idur/2, .5 krmajor = krminor+1 asin1 oscil krminor, ifqc, 1 acos1 oscil krminor, ifqc, 1, .25 asin2 oscil krmajor, ifqc/4, 1 acos2 oscil krmajor, ifqc/4, 1, .25 ax = asin1+acos2 ay = acos1 az = asin2 aw1 = sin(sqrt(ax*ax+ay*ay+az*az)) ; Compute the surface aw = aw1*aw1-.5 zaw ax*kdclick, ioutch1 zaw ay*kdclick, ioutch2 zaw az*kdclick, ioutch3 zaw aw*kdclick*10, ioutch4 endin ; 3 Space Planar Rotations instr 50 ifqc = p4 iphase = p5 iplane = p6 inx = p7 iny = p8 inz = p9 ioutx = p10 iouty = p11 ioutz = p12 kcost oscil 1, ifqc, 1, .25+iphase ksint oscil 1, ifqc, 1, iphase ax zar inx ay zar iny az zar inz ; Rotation in X-Y plane if (iplane!=1) goto next1 axr = ax*kcost + ay*ksint ayr =-ax*ksint + ay*kcost azr = az goto next3 ; Rotation in X-Z plane next1: if (iplane!=2) goto next2 axr = ax*kcost + az*ksint ayr = ay azr =-ax*ksint + az*kcost goto next 3 ; Rotation in Y-Z plane next2: axr = ax ayr = ay*kcost + az*ksint azr =-ay*ksint + az*kcost next3: zaw axr, ioutx zaw ayr, iouty zaw azr, ioutz endin ; 4 Space Planar Rotations instr 51 ifqc = p4 iphase = p5 iplane = p6 inx = p7 iny = p8 inz = p9 inw = p10 ioutx = p11 iouty = p12 ioutz = p13 ioutw = p14 kcost oscil 1, ifqc, 1, .25+iphase ksint oscil 1, ifqc, 1, iphase ax zar inx ay zar iny az zar inz aw zar inw ; Rotation in X-Y plane if (iplane!=1) goto next1 axr = ax*kcost + ay*ksint ayr =-ax*ksint + ay*kcost azr = az awr = aw goto nextend ; Rotation in X-Z plane next1: if (iplane!=2) goto next2 axr = ax*kcost + az*ksint ayr = ay azr =-ax*ksint + az*kcost awr = aw goto nextend ; Rotation in Y-Z plane next2: if (iplane!=3) goto next3 axr = ax ayr = ay*kcost + az*ksint azr =-ay*ksint + az*kcost awr = aw goto nextend ; Rotation in X-W plane next3: if (iplane!=4) goto next4 axr = ax*kcost + aw*ksint ayr = ay azr = az awr = -ax*ksint + aw*kcost goto nextend ; Rotation in Y-W plane next4: if (iplane!=5) goto next5 axr = ax ayr = ay*kcost + az*ksint azr = az awr = -ay*ksint + aw*kcost goto nextend ; Rotation in Z-W plane next5: if (iplane!=6) goto nextend axr = ax ayr = ay azr = az*kcost + aw*ksint awr =-az*ksint + aw*kcost nextend: zaw axr, ioutx zaw ayr, iouty zaw azr, ioutz zaw awr, ioutw endin ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ; Mixer Section ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- instr 100 idur = p3 iamp = p4 inch1 = p5 inch2 = p6 ain1 zar inch1 ain2 zar inch2 outs ain1*iamp, ain2*iamp endin ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ; Clear audio & control channels ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- instr 110 zacl 0, 50 ; Clear audio channels 0 to 30 zkcl 0, 50 ; Clear control channels 0 to 30 endin ; SCORE f1 0 8192 10 1 ; Sta Dur Amp Pch i4 0 2 20000 9.00 ; Sta Dur Amp Pch OutX OutY OutZ OutW i5 2 2 2000 9.00 1 2 3 4 ; 3 Space Planar Rotation ; 1=X-Y Plane, 2=X-Z Plane, 3=Y-Z Plane ; Sta Dur Fqc Phase Plane InX InY InZ OutX OutY OutZ ;i50 0 1.6 1.5 0 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 ; 4 Space Planar Rotation ; Plane: 1=X-Y, 2=X-Z, 3=Y-Z, 4=X-W, 5=Y-W, 6=Z-W ; Sta Dur Fqc Phase Plane InX InY InZ InW OutX OutY OutZ OutW i51 2 2 1.5 0 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 i51 2 2 1.2 0 6 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 i51 2 2 1.0 0 5 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 ; Mixer ; Sta Dur Amp InCh1 InCh2 i100 2 2 1 14 16 ; Clear Zak ; Sta Dur i110 2 2   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16373; 14 Feb 98 4:21 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15104; 14 Feb 98 4:21 GMT Received: (qmail 3810 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 04:21:27 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 04:21:27 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA02037); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:08:04 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 04:07:47 GMT Received: from root@big.fishnet.net [205.216.133.3] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA18597); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:07:40 GMT Received: from rcsreg.com (toby@port080.vta.fishnet.net [205.216.133.229]) by big.fishnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA20598; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:58:22 -0800 Message-Id: <34E51890.236CBD1@rcsreg.com> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:07:44 -0800 From: Toby Organization: Other than 12-tone X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: David Schuyeteneer Cc: csound mailing list Subject: Re: unwanted "line" sweepback References: <19980213201932331.AAA211@nobody> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk What you want to do is sweep among positive values and then *Multiply* the loscil freq arg by this amount. You see, the loscil arg is a coefficient itself, not an offset. Any way, your example ends up generating negative pitch values which sort of wrap around to high pitches again giving you a 'valley' sort of result. Toby -There otta be a law- David Schuyeteneer wrote: > > I try to pitchdown a loscil unit with a line opcode but it sweeps back > pitching up !! > I don't understand this because i clearly set the idur of the line to p3 > and not p3/2 or something... > > Please explain me this fellow Csounders... > > orc & sco are included below and the needed soundfile was 710kb, a little > too much...so create > a soundfile yourself of 363791 sampleframes at 16bit at 44100 Hz. > > David. > > *** ORC ********************* > ******************************* > sr = 44100 > kr = 441 > ksmps = 100 > nchnls = 1 > > ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > ; > ; loscil test instrument. > ; > ;--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > instr 1 > > khold oscil 50,0.3,2 > kvib randh 1,abs(khold) > kdown line 1,p3,-5 > > ; loscil xamp, kcps, ifn,[ibasefreq,][imod1, ibeg, iend] > a1 loscil 10000, 1+kvib, 1, 1 , 1, 0, 363790 > a2 loscil 10000, kdown, 1, 1 , 1, 0, 363790 > > out a1+a2 > > endin > > *** SCO ********************* > ******************************* > > ;GEN 01 : soundfile input > ;f# time size 1 filcod skiptime format channel > f1 0 0 1 "speak3.aif" 0 0 0 > f2 0 256 10 1 > > i1 0 30 > > e >   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16416; 14 Feb 98 4:42 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15686; 14 Feb 98 4:42 GMT Received: (qmail 3848 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 04:42:36 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 04:42:36 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA24672); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:31:51 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 04:31:33 GMT Received: from m9.sprynet.com [165.121.2.209] (may be forged) by hermes via ESMTP (EAA01580); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:31:25 GMT From: mbpcpa@sprynet.com Received: from 206.175.203.143 (hd12-143.hil.compuserve.com [206.175.203.143]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA29794; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:31:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:31:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199802140431.UAA29794@m9.sprynet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: discouraged To: RWD@cableinet.co.uk, csound In-Reply-To: <34E418AB.42A9E4F2@cableinet.co.uk> X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.14 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk IMHO, the Pythagoreans are worthwhile to study as an object lesson in the sort of damage systematic philosophising about music can cause. I get a big kick out of old that old quote about music being too important for musicians. Of course Plato would have rather seen an elite of philosophising politicians dictating what everyone should or should not express or experience in the arts. Wouldn't that be fun! It gives me a vision of Mao-Tse-Tung hosting the Lawrence Welk show.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16549; 14 Feb 98 5:39 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17212; 14 Feb 98 5:39 GMT Received: (qmail 3910 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 05:39:08 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 05:39:08 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA02632); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:31:19 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 05:30:52 GMT Received: from f16.hotmail.com [207.82.250.27] by hermes via SMTP (FAA26721); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:30:28 GMT Received: (qmail 11188 invoked by uid 0); 14 Feb 1998 05:29:28 -0000 Message-Id: <19980214052928.11187.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.172.114.145 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:29:26 PST X-Originating-Ip: [207.172.114.145] From: Paul Winkler To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Whither music? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:29:26 PST Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >>>Me: >>>My crack at it: Music is human-organized sound, or the threat thereof. >>> >>"Paul Winkler" : >>For that matter, your definitions above definitely include speech. > >Absolutely, but only the part of speech that is the _sound_ of speech, >stripped of its cognition/meaning component -- which means that there's >room for Dutiful Ducks and Rainbow Bandit Bombs under the umbrella. Which gets into realms of potential poetry that might be arguably blurring the line between music and language... interesting, eh? >In general practice, of course, we consider speech primarily for its >meaning component (its "content"), which is why at first glance its >inclusion would seem to corrupt the definition I pose above. > >Unwilling to let me separate "speech" into sound and meaning? Don't we >separate monophonic song into sonic (the "music") and cognitive (the >meaning of the words) spheres -- especially if we don't speak the language >of the lyrics? Well, sure, okay. I was getting a bit niggling. > >>>Note that this doesn't attempt to define what "art" is, nor what "good >>>music" is. >> >>Fine by me. Though if we COULD define "art," it might help the >>definition of music to mention that it's a subset of art. > >Hm. One might argue that there are whole traditions of music which are >outside the conceits of "art" as we understand it in Western culture. I would tend to characterize that as a limitation of western culture rather than the other way 'round. >>Oh, drat, I can't resist. I'm going to quote Scott McCloud's definition >>of art from Understanding Comics: "...any human activity which doesn't >>grow out of either of our species' two basic instincts: survival and >>reproduction!" > >But what about love songs? Yep... it's not really fair to Scott to quote that bit out of context... he went out on a limb there, and a lot of the richness of his ideas is conveyed visually... it's a 200 page comic book about how comic books work... > >>"Music is a cognitive framework for interpreting experienced or imagined >>sound." > >I would so much prefer to define music in terms of what it is >intrinsically, rather than how the mind prepares for, experiences, or >reacts to its reception. The bullet rather than the wound. But if it hits a tree in the woods and no one's there to hear it? :0 You know, the way your sig file shows up in my email, it says: >Dave LaDelfa By "multimedia" I mean that when you click on >ladelfa@rain.org the picture of the cat the room will light up >Santa Barbara, California in undulating splashes of teal and indigo and etc. etc... but when I clicked on ladelfa.rain.org, nothing happened. It's really disappointing. But then I can't see Santa Barbara from here, so I'm not sure if that's supposed to be doing something. --PW ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16653; 14 Feb 98 6:27 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18590; 14 Feb 98 6:27 GMT Received: (qmail 10261 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 06:27:44 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 06:27:44 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (GAA21057); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:19:10 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 06:18:53 GMT Received: from f146.hotmail.com [207.82.251.25] by hermes via SMTP (GAA05792); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 06:12:12 GMT Received: (qmail 17437 invoked by uid 0); 14 Feb 1998 06:11:33 -0000 Message-Id: <19980214061133.17436.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.172.114.145 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:11:32 PST X-Originating-Ip: [207.172.114.145] From: Paul Winkler To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking Content-Type: text/plain Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:11:32 PST Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This sounds like a worthwhile project to me. I would certainly be interested in the results. I have to work pretty hard just to get csound instruments working, though-- no programming experience-- so that puts me out of the development team. --PW >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:48 +0100 (MET) >From: Nicola Bernardini >To: Csound mailing list >Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking > Can you imagine what csound would be like with these >constructs? It would have the same impact as switching from >fortran-like Music V to csound itself! > >I am available to put some effort into this, but I would like to >understand from this list if this is something effectively useful >to the community (I won't do it for the sake of doing it, I don't care). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16973; 14 Feb 98 9:52 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23826; 14 Feb 98 9:52 GMT Received: (qmail 14892 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 09:52:21 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 09:52:21 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA09538); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:42:39 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 09:42:23 GMT Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (JAA01274); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:42:17 GMT Received: (qmail 32035 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 09:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.177) by jaguars with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 09:38:14 -0000 Message-Id: <34E56487.F87F0A26@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:31:52 +0000 From: Richard Dobson Reply-To: RWD@cableinet.co.uk Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: mbpcpa@sprynet.com Cc: csound Subject: Re: discouraged References: <199802140431.UAA29794@m9.sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Yes, and it would appear to be going on, still - our government has recently set plans to remove music from the list of required subjects to teach at primary and secondary school. We have politicians who deem music not to be important enough! Actually, there was a bit more to Plato's statement than immediately meets the eye. He argued that any change in musical style or activity in a society would immediately effect a change in that society's potitical and social structures - can we really say he was wrong in that? Plato was emphasizing just how powerful music can be (he also gives a famous example of music's healing power), and that that power must be wielded with wisdom. I think his concern mirrors our contemporary concern with regard to to some scientific research, 'tampering with nature'. Plato would have said science was too important to be left in the hands of scientists! Richard Dobson mbpcpa@sprynet.com wrote: > IMHO, the Pythagoreans are worthwhile to study as an object lesson in the sort > of damage systematic philosophising about music can cause. I get a big kick out > of old that old quote about music being too important for musicians. Of course > Plato would have rather seen an elite of philosophising politicians dictating > what everyone should or should not express or experience in the arts. Wouldn't > that be fun! It gives me a vision of Mao-Tse-Tung hosting the Lawrence Welk > show.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17030; 14 Feb 98 10:31 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24811; 14 Feb 98 10:30 GMT Received: (qmail 15963 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 10:30:52 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 10:30:52 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA24528); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:21:36 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 10:21:19 GMT Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (KAA04006); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:21:13 GMT Received: (qmail 32695 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 10:17:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.177) by jaguars with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 10:17:10 -0000 Message-Id: <34E56DA7.1B819BC5@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:10:47 +0000 From: Richard Dobson Reply-To: RWD@cableinet.co.uk Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Winkler Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking References: <19980214061133.17436.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I too am interested in this idea, though I don't think the cross-platform issues should be under-estimated (different flavours of lex and yacc -this comment also applies to the dynamic library question), both in the coding, and in the matter of ongoing maintenance and development thereafter. It is, of course, an enormous task, as no doubt most, if not all, of the current Csound data structures and access routines might need to be recast to suit the parser. Just how incrementally could such change be made? What would be the minumun number of opcodes needed to excercise the parser? I can imagine that the creation of a reasonably self-contained parser might lead to a new range of Csound facilities - perhaps even a source-file debugger to step through an orc file? I would be interested, to the extent that my un-schooled knowledge permits, to contribute to some work on this; apart from anythig else, I am keen to learn to use flex and bison on a real project. The SAOL/MPEG-4 team at MIT: http://sound.media.mit.edu/~eds/mpeg4 have included yacc and lex scripts in the source distribution for saol - it might be a useful model. Richard Dobson Paul Winkler wrote: > This sounds like a worthwhile project to me. I would certainly be > interested in the results. I have to work pretty hard just to get csound > instruments working, though-- no programming experience-- so that puts > me out of the development team. > > --PW > > >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:48 +0100 (MET) > >From: Nicola Bernardini > >To: Csound mailing list > >Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking > > > Can you imagine what csound would be like with these > >constructs? It would have the same impact as switching from > >fortran-like Music V to csound itself! > > > >I am available to put some effort into this, but I would like to > >understand from this list if this is something effectively useful > >to the community (I won't do it for the sake of doing it, I don't > care). > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17040; 14 Feb 98 10:36 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24990; 14 Feb 98 10:36 GMT Received: (qmail 16127 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 10:36:23 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 10:36:23 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA27144); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:30:03 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 10:29:26 GMT Received: from agora.stm.it [195.62.32.1] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA23127); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:29:10 GMT Received: from default (ppp04-05.stm.it [195.62.37.197]) by agora.stm.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18423; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:28:54 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <34E56566.550C57C9@agora.stm.it> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:35:34 +0100 From: Gabriel Maldonado X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Ruggero Andrea Ruschioni Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: roaches... X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <34E4A793.D6DFB87@lsi.usp.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Ruggero Andrea Ruschioni wrote: > ... it seems that the kfreq argument on all waveguide opcodes is in > fact not > accepting kvalues. Example: > > kfreq line 220,2,440 > aflute wgflute 30000, kfreq, 0.32, 0.1, 0.1, 0.15, 5.925, 0.05, 1 > ^^^^ > > This doesn't work for me, my csound gets stucked forever. If I > substitute kfreq for an i-value it works. > I tried winsound 3.473, RTsound1.9 and csound.exe 3.473 on a > pentium133. > Our Unix machines commited suicide today (friday 13th) so I didn't > test > this on SGIs, Linux or SUNs. Try to initalize kfreq : kfreq init 220 ;***** initialization of k-var kfreq line 220,2,440 aflute wgflute 30000, kfreq, 0.32, 0.1, 0.1, 0.15, 5.925, 0.05, 1 > Also, on RTsound1.9 I was trying the following to test moscil: > ------------------------------------------ > instr 1 > kchn = int (rnd(16)) > knum = int (rnd(127)) > kvel = int (rnd(127)) > kdur = rnd(2) > kpause = rnd(1) > moscil kchn, knum, kvel, kdur, kpause > endin > ------------------------------------------ > > compiled with: > csound -odevaudio -Q[x] orc sco > > with many serious and non-seriou experimantal values for [x]: it > always > crashes! (this program performed an illegal > operation...blah...blah...) > > Whats the catch? You must modify the instr in the following way: ;******** begin ******** ;sinus.orc sr=100 kr=100 ksmps=1 nchnls=1 instr 1 k1 init 16 k2 init 127 k3 init 127 kchn = int (rnd(k1)) knum = int (rnd(k2)) kvel = int (rnd(k3)) kdur = rnd(2) kpause = rnd(1) moscil kchn, knum, kvel, kdur, kpause endin ;********* end ************ ... and call RTsound with the following command line: csound.exe -eYKQq file.orc file.sco (also study carefully the RTsound readme file next time!!!) I hope this will help you -- Gabriel Maldonado mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/7041/home2.htm   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17046; 14 Feb 98 10:36 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24995; 14 Feb 98 10:36 GMT Received: (qmail 16146 invoked from network); 14 Feb 1998 10:36:46 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 1998 10:36:46 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA21790); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:30:03 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 14 Feb 98 10:29:12 GMT Received: from agora.stm.it [195.62.32.1] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA08741); Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:29:01 GMT Received: from default (ppp04-05.stm.it [195.62.37.197]) by agora.stm.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18438; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:28:58 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <34E56E96.4219DAD2@agora.stm.it> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:14:46 +0100 From: Gabriel Maldonado X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Nicola Bernardini Cc: Csound mailing list Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Nicola Bernardini wrote: > > Another thing I believe to be useful, is to open and close orchestra > and > > scores without having to restart Csound each time. In this case the > time > > of loading will be reduced and this will help us especially when > writing > > and testing new osc/scos. Any idea? > > well, this would imply running an eval loop and an in-line editor > (a` la lisp, to be clear). Now *this* implies some work, especially > considering the way the parser is presently written (and has always > been, as far as I know): it's absolutely impossible to modify and > maintain that section of code the way it is written. Which brings > me to another subject: is the csound community interested in > attempting > a backward-compatible re-write of the parser using decent tools like > lex (flex) and yacc (bison)? This would allow, after rebuilding the > parser, > much better possibilities in extending the language for important > things like array variables, better conditionals, sub-patching > (instrument stacking), parameter field passing with strings, numbers, > variables, etc. Can you imagine what csound would be like with these > constructs? It would have the same impact as switching from > fortran-like Music V to csound itself! > > I am available to put some effort into this, but I would like to > understand from this list if this is something effectively useful > to the community (I won't do it for the sake of doing it, I don't > care). Very interesting... I think that all these are very good things, of course only if backward compatiblity with old orc/sco will be completely kept back. BtW what are exactly lex, yacc, flex and bison? Do they work with all platforms and with all C-C++ compilers? Thanks Gabriel