Paul Winkler wrote:
(RE: Perl score editor)
>... be advised that putting things INTO such structures is not that
>hard in Perl, but getting data OUT of the structure is very, very
>confusing. Complex data structures are a recent addition to Perl and,
>IMHO, it's a pretty ugly hack.
I abandoned my Perl editor for exactly that reason. I was able to build a
fairly powerful score line representaion object,using a ridiculously
complex hash data structure as the object, and added editing functions with
full undo, but the resulting syntax was... uh... horrifying?... ugly?...
nearly un-usable? All of the above.
I pondered: could it be useful with a GUI? Perhaps, but I think the power
of such a 'scripting' system (and of all the score tools I know...eg
CommonMusic/Cscore, etc.) is their being embedded in a cool higher level
language, *with a usable score manipulation A.P.I*, unburdened by Gui
restrictions.
Perhaps I could put the torso of the editor on my site for those foolish
enough to want to mess with it....but I warn you ...accessing the internals
of the score object (which you *have* to do to add functionality to the
module) is a VERY MESSY business, and in the end I judged the core module
not  very helpful in compositional work, and not worthy of GUI-fying. Don;t
even have the (necessary) command-line-interface code lying around any
more.
Perhaps Python...in python, is there a simple,useful tie-in to a simple
widget set such as Tk?


WARNING: OVER-ANIMATED PLEA FOLLOWS: I PLEAD LATE NIGHT & MILD  FEVER!

I.M.O., it is imperative that the base score line ("note") object make no
assumptions as to the nature of it's content...or allows each item (object?
score line?) to be exactly and only what is required for the score function
it serves.
DAMMIT, not all note lines will use a "AMP" field, not all will use a
"PITCH" field, and the contents of fields with those names should be able
to vary over any data the composer sees fit to use in her/his instrument.
I DO NOT WANT *ANY* EDITOR THAT ASSUMES:
1)Oct.Pch and Amp as 0-32K in p-fields p4 & 5
2) Durations are rational divisions of a 'beat', specified by  "e" "q" "h"
"w", etc.
3) Amp scaling based on # of instruments (all *your* instruments  may
produce audio out...many of mine produce control signals & would really
mess up any simple normalization routines based on # of instruments
"playing" at a given time.


Why do I fuss? I have seen all of the above assumptions used by composers
in composition tools they wrote, and by-gum, they just are not necessary,
and not appropriate for my Csound scores. They are simplifications that
restrict compositional choices. *bad*. *Bad, bad, bad.*

Ok, thanks for your time. I'll calm down now.

What sayeth thou, Paul? (& all?)

CharlieB, Ph.D.
baker@charlieb.com
charlie@releasenow.com
baker@ccrma.stanford.edu

 >Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:58:39 -0700
 >From: Charles Baker 
 >
 >Perhaps Python...in python, is there a simple,useful tie-in to a simple
 >widget set such as Tk?

        There are several widget sets available.  Tk is currently the
default.  So all of my GUI software is written two parts, as you
suggest: libraries to do the interesting bits which can be called from
anywhere and separate libraries to slap a GUI interface on top of
that.  Mix and run.

 >WARNING: OVER-ANIMATED PLEA FOLLOWS: I PLEAD LATE NIGHT & MILD  FEVER!
 >
 >I.M.O., it is imperative that the base score line ("note") object make no
 >assumptions as to the nature of it's content...or allows each item (object?
 >score line?) to be exactly and only what is required for the score function
 >it serves.

        I agree completely.

 >DAMMIT, not all note lines will use a "AMP" field, not all will use a
 >"PITCH" field, and the contents of fields with those names should be able
 >to vary over any data the composer sees fit to use in her/his instrument.
 >I DO NOT WANT *ANY* EDITOR THAT ASSUMES:
 >1)Oct.Pch and Amp as 0-32K in p-fields p4 & 5

        Right.  So far, the best mechanism I've come up with for the
actual creation of i-lines is not, in my opinion, as elegant as it can
be, but one must make sacrifices for flexibility.

        I take advantage of a very nice feature of Python in how it
deals with hash tables and formatting.  So, like in C, you can print
out three integers like this:

        "%i %i %i" % (some_int_0, some_int_1, some_int_2)

This is standard.  You can also pass in a hash table where I've listed
the variables.  So, assuming this: note = {'voice':1, 'amp':3000,
'pitch':440, 'pan':.2}, you can do this ('f' is a float format):

        "i%(voice)i %(start)f %(dur)f %(amp)i %(pitch)f %(pan)f\n" % note

So, whenever you want to emit a stream of note events, you have to
hand in something that looks like the string above for each
instrument, and let the code handle the creation of a hash table to
pass to your format string.  This isn't very hard in the end, since my
'note event' structure is open-ended, and the last bit is a hash table
where you can cram all sorts of things.  This also means you can emit
a score ignoring all the junk you're not currently worried about
(panning, say) by making the format less dynamic:

        "i4 %(start)f %(dur)f 5000 %(pitch)f .5\n" % note

        This isn't perfect... in fact I think it's a touch ugly, but
it makes the fewest assumptions about your score.

 >Why do I fuss? I have seen all of the above assumptions used by composers
 >in composition tools they wrote, and by-gum, they just are not necessary,
 >and not appropriate for my Csound scores. They are simplifications that
 >restrict compositional choices. *bad*. *Bad, bad, bad.*

        I agree, but ass mentioned earlier, everyone writing these
tools is writing for themselves.  Most people are happy to use the
'8.05' notation for pitch.  Since I'm interested in diddling with
tuning am not, so my own code deliberately avoids that system, and
ultimately drops to Hz notation.  Of course, since all my score
fiddling is in terms of ABC, the octave/pitch-class convenience isn't
needed.

 >Ok, thanks for your time. I'll calm down now.

        Count up the octave in just intuned ratios... 1/1, 9/8,
...more interesting than 1, 2, 3.

-- 
William S. Annis                	       wsannis@execpc.com
Mi parolas Esperanton - La Internacia Lingvo    www.esperanto.org










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To: Csound list , 
    rasmus ekman 
Subject: Re: Csound addresses
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Bath seems OK to me. Downloaded stuff yesterday and just now.
-David.

rasmus wrote:
Point in case. Bath is dead right now (it looks to me).




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> Can you describe these improvements?  When were they reported before?
> I must have missed them

 - bugfix in Makefile: it should run "./makedb" instead of "makedb" (generally,
a program should not assume that "." is in the path, and also "makedb"
is a GNU utility and it's very likely that on many systems that program
will be run instead of csound's makedb)

 - bugfix in getstring.c: (see patch file for details)

 - on some newer Linux systems "libbsd.a" is renamed to "libbsd-compat.a"

 - Makefile settings default to Linux (as I wrote this diff file is for Linux users,
   as the subject was "Getting Csound for Linux")

 - new function that allows Csound to run with real-time priority (-DLINUX_RT);
   this requires root privileges, or setting the csound executable to setuid root
   (in the latter case it gives up root privileges after calling sched_setscheduler()
   and mlockall(); it also will not use real-time priority when rendering to a file (as
   that can lock up the system rather solidly). When csound is run as a normal
   user the function does not do anything, and just returns)











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rasmus ekman wrote:

>> ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/newest/
>
> Point in case. Bath is dead right now (it looks to me).

Hmm ... dead ? I've just downloaded some new mail archive files from there.

As of UNIX vs. DOS sources, there may be some differences in makefiles,
handling real time audio, graphics etc. Also the WinSound GUI does not compile
on unix since Windows is not compatible with X11 (not even on the source level).
It is still possible that it contains unix makefiles, but surely has no advantages
over "Csound.tar.gz". Last, bot not least there may be some CR/LF problems as
well (although gcc is aware of this)











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Reply-To: Michael Rhoades 
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Hi Ross,
     I am curious about the reference to Macromedia Director. I have just
obtained a copy of it and don't know much about it yet except what I have
seen it do on the internet. I am going to use it to create visuals for a
cd-rom version of the next CD I release. How are you using it to generate
.sco files? Please elaborate...

Michael Rhoades


Make the Rhoadsmith Web Connection at
http://www.innerlightpub.com/rhoadsmith


----- Original Message -----
From: Ross Bencina 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Generating scores]


>but at the moment I'm using Macromedia Director for work so
> it's the obvious choice. In a recent piece I generated a tab delimited
text
> file from a genetic algorithm implemented in C++  and used Director to
> process it into a score - you could do the same thing with tcl, perl or
> python, etc. The Director code did things like changing tempos / durations
> and interpolating parameters over time, and interpreting the C++ output
into
> a set of i statements.












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I use Open Music too.
It's a Lisp based graphic environment.
It means that you don't have to know Lisp to use it. You just have to connect
boxes: one box takes input arguments and send the result to another box and so on...

With it you can: 
_convert midi to CSound scores
_record music on keyboard and convert to CS score
_Analyse a soundfile with Audiosculpt and convert it to CS score.
_Analyse music(midifiles or sound files)

There is a growing set of libraries including:

_Aleatoric/stochastic functions
_Chaos functions
_Constraint programing(Situation 3)
_CSound score and orc generation by Karim Hadad
_Morphology analysis
etc

I would say it's specially interesting for analysis/resynthesis of sound and music.

http://www.ircam.fr/forumnet/index.html 

-- 
Jean-Michel DARREMONT











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> Hmm ... dead ? 
> Bath seems OK to me. 

Ok, sorry for disinformation then...
Hasn't worked for two weeks for me, and doesn't now.
Gets to "Contacting host: (host):(port numbers)" then times out.
But it's a lot better that I'm wrong here...

Cheers,

	re










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Hello,

I have been using Cmask (Andre Bartetzky) to generate scores:
http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~abart/CMaskMan/CMask-Download.htm

Another interesting tool to use with Csound (and other programming
languages) is TextPad: 
http://www.textpad.com/

bye,

Guto

guto@sercomtel.com.br
http://members.tripod.com/Guto001











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I tried Bath just now, as well as I couple of days ago, no response.  
Something seems not right with the server.

Job van Zuijlen

rasmus ekman wrote:
> 
> > Hmm ... dead ?
> > Bath seems OK to me.
> 
> Ok, sorry for disinformation then...
> Hasn't worked for two weeks for me, and doesn't now.
> Gets to "Contacting host: (host):(port numbers)" then times out.
> But it's a lot better that I'm wrong here...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>         re










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From: Michael Gogins 
To: Michael Rhoades , 
    Csound 
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Generating scores]
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:30:37 -0400
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About score generation:

I use Java. I find it easier than scripting languages such as Tcl/Tk (which
I have used) and as powerful as C++ (which I use at work). In my opinion,
Java is the most generally useful computer language yet and I personally
find no reason to use anything else except where realtime performance is
absolutely critical. The performance gap between Java and C/C++ is
shrinking, too.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
[mailto:owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Michael
Rhoades
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 1:14 PM
To: Csound
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Generating scores]


Hi Ross,
     I am curious about the reference to Macromedia Director. I have just
obtained a copy of it and don't know much about it yet except what I have
seen it do on the internet. I am going to use it to create visuals for a
cd-rom version of the next CD I release. How are you using it to generate
.sco files? Please elaborate...

Michael Rhoades


Make the Rhoadsmith Web Connection at
http://www.innerlightpub.com/rhoadsmith


----- Original Message -----
From: Ross Bencina 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Generating scores]


>but at the moment I'm using Macromedia Director for work so
> it's the obvious choice. In a recent piece I generated a tab delimited
text
> file from a genetic algorithm implemented in C++  and used Director to
> process it into a score - you could do the same thing with tcl, perl or
> python, etc. The Director code did things like changing tempos / durations
> and interpolating parameters over time, and interpreting the C++ output
into
> a set of i statements.












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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:42:58 -0600
To: Csound 
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Generating scores]
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>About score generation:
>
>I use Java. I find it easier than scripting languages such as Tcl/Tk (which
>I have used) and as powerful as C++ (which I use at work). In my opinion,
>Java is the most generally useful computer language yet and I personally
>find no reason to use anything else except where realtime performance is
>absolutely critical. The performance gap between Java and C/C++ is
>shrinking, too.
>

!t = shr!nk!ng at ~zame rate ur projekt l!zt = zhr!nk!ng monz!eur.



"I purchased a G4 400 and of curse the first this that I did after unpacking was
to run caffeine 3.0. Detailed scores are not in hand at thin moment, but
overal score was 6686. Note that in my Mac 333 MT the score was 4900.

Of course, the G4 is faster but not very impressive.

OTOH, using some programs with swing and JTable is slow  in this machine.

May be some day Java will become usable for a serious projects :-)

Pietro Pesci-Feltri C"













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From: Ross Bencina 
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Generating scores]
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Michael Rhoades  wrote:

>Hi Ross,
>     I am curious about the reference to Macromedia Director. I have just
>obtained a copy of it and don't know much about it yet except what I have
>seen it do on the internet. I am going to use it to create visuals for a
>cd-rom version of the next CD I release. How are you using it to generate
>.sco files? Please elaborate...


Hi Michael,

Director manages data as "casts members" in "casts", a kind o virtual file
system. One supported cast member type is as "field" which is basically just
a chunk of text. Lingo (director's scripting language) has a number of
powerful text chunking functions so you can write things like:

x = word 4 of line 27 of field("data3")

which makes it really easy to parse scos or other tab/space delimited data.
There is also a dot operator syntax in D7 which I don't remember exactly,
something like x = field("data3").line[27].word[4]

So I write a lingo script to take sco lines from one text cast member and
generate a new score in another cast member. This way I can generate
multichannel scores in paralell. When I've finished I just cut and paste the
scos into text files, although I could get director to save out a .csd
automagically if I put my mind to it.

The way I'm working with it is pretty primative - I define a lingo function
that generates a score and then call it from the message window. There's no
reason why you couldn't make a simple gui where you enter parameters into
fields and press a button to generate a score.

Ross.















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From: James Andrews 
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Incidentally, I run a web site which covers Linux issues and I'd be very
interested in articles on running Csound under Linux and/or general sound
processing.
We are always interested in finding knowledgable writers with a 
professional attitude so if you fit the bill please get in touch!

--
About Linuxplanet http://www.linuxplanet.com
Linuxplanet is a tutorial based site specialising in information for new 
Linux users.  There are lots of tutorials, reviews and reports aimed at 
providing essential information for people coming from other computing
environments to Linux











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From: Radu GRIGOROVICI 
To: csound 
Subject: Generating scores...
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:40:43 +0300
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Thanks for your answers!

I would need something like a tracker for csound (with patterns and tracks),
for simple instrumets. If I have time, I try to write it myself. I hope can
:-)

Have a nice day,
Radu Grigorovici