Michael Rhoades :

>    There was an artist that was a friend of Monet's who made these
>fascinating drawings that were five to ten lines in black.

Can you give us his name and a reference to where we might find examples of
his work?  You have me intrigued.  I am a reader of selected comics, and I
enjoy minimalist art very much.  There is so much that can be done with just
a little.  This has led me into an appreciation of minimalist music as well.
There is a composer whose name I've forgotten ( I've asked the friend who
played him to me to look for his tape and give me the details.  I'll pass
them on if anyone is interested, ) who made a piece of music that if I
remember correctly is one piano, and only a few notes ( I think only 2 or
3, ) and goes for about 20 minutes, building up an amazing feeling if you
sit there listening with your eyes closed.

>    I enjoy, Future Sounds Of London

another interesting band - Lifeforms is not really a collection of "songs" -
it's more like an abstracted film soundtrack, made with only an accompanying
mental movie ( my thoughts, based on many listenings, and the movies I see
in my own head sometimes.)

>Then throw in a dash of Zappa....

Zappa made very varied very great music.  It will live on beyond him.  And
he used drums.  He used a beat.

Michael Gogins :

> No, just as human languages all involve words and syllables in
>spite of the vastly wider range of possibilities afforded by the vocal
>tract, there is apparently some deep structure underlying human >music
production, a proto-grammar of meter and scale that can take >a huge variety
of forms without obscuring the intelligibility afforded by >this underlying
basis.

humans like order.  disorder is uncertain and scary.  you have to take a
chance with it.

>I've worked hard all my life to become as objective as possible in >music
(I can hear the fireworks starting up in reponse to that one too...).

you sound objective to me.  No one can be totally objective.  A friend once
told me that he didn't like something despite knowing as a musician that it
was really good music.  Taste comes into it.  But an objective person will
never allow their taste to override their ability to distinguish good from
bad.

>But I rather expect that any future genre of music with any degree of
>popularity beyond its composers will have some form of, perhaps
>camouflaged, meter and scale.

how do we get more than a few people to try something different.  Look at
the movie industry in America.  We're being flooded with largely rubbish,
because the studios are afraid to take a chance.

>If not, then some other, perhaps until now only latent, proto-grammar >will
have been discovered.

sounds like something csound may aid in.

>To make my point blunter, I don't think people can grasp or reflect >upon
their experiences without some proto-grammar.

which is also what I meant about the need for a structure.  formless is
harder to understand.

Josep M Comajuncosas :

>I particularly enjoy conceiving the inner structure of the whale >singings.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.  To me, whale singing has an
amorphous quality, and this is the beauty of it to me; but one thing I have
been reminded of by this discussion, is that we should keep an open mind.
That means that I shouldn't assume that my views are correct in the face of
any new evidence.  If I'm wrong because of lack of or wrong information,
then I must assimilate the new information and change my views.  If we
didn't do this, the world would still be flat.
If you can show me a structure in whale singing, it will probably have a
significant effect on what I may produce in my music.

>I just mean that sequencers work best with dance music,

reasoning?

>composers want to make money writing dance CDs/

I don't give a damn about money myself.  I earn more than enough to live
comfortably on.  I still want to write dance music ( as well as many other
forms, anything I can.  I would love to be able to say that I had created a
new variation in music, or a completely different form.)
Why do I want do write this stuff?  Well, I go to raves, mostly trance, a
little house, and I appreciate what really good dance music, mixed by a
really good dj, can do to people.  I have felt absolute euphoria at these
parties, and time and time again I've done it without some drug making the
euphoria for me.  But it only happens when the music is really good.
There's not enough good dance music.  If I can, I'd like to be responsible
for creating some.  In no way do I want to restrict myself to this form.

Should there be a separate list for this sort of discussion?  Are we getting
on anyone's nerves?  I think that this is a good thing to be talking about.

Bye

Paul Barrett