| Greetings:
I'm trying to compile Mara Helmuth's Patchmix for g++ under Linux. I
finally found and compiled the Lamont X Toolkit library, now I'm running
into this problem:
brutus:~/tmp/pmix/g++# make -f Makefile.linux
g++ -O -fstrength-reduce -finline-functions -DBIGENDIAN -DXSET
-I/usr/include/g++ -c patch.c -o patch.o
In file included from plus.h:48,
from patch.c:22:
inst.h:21: syntax error before `*'
Lines 1 through 17 are all comments or blank lines. And here's what's in
inst.h at line 21:
class instrument
{
private:
--> FILE* fp;
I know next to nothing about C++ programming, so am I missing something
obvious here ? I figure there must be some good C++ programmers on this
list, I hope no-one minds my asking here...
== Dave Phillips
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linux_soundapps.html
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From: Richard Dobson
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To: Dave Phillips
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Subject: Re: a C++ question
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Unless there is in fact something awry earlier, the most likely reason
for this is that FILE has not been defined - it's normally defined (a
macro) in the header file . So you would need to check the
#include list at the top of the file, and check those, etc.
Richard Dobson
Dave Phillips wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> I'm trying to compile Mara Helmuth's Patchmix for g++ under Linux. I
>
> finally found and compiled the Lamont X Toolkit library, now I'm
> running
> into this problem:
>
> brutus:~/tmp/pmix/g++# make -f Makefile.linux
> g++ -O -fstrength-reduce -finline-functions -DBIGENDIAN -DXSET
> -I/usr/include/g++ -c patch.c -o patch.o
> In file included from plus.h:48,
> from patch.c:22:
> inst.h:21: syntax error before `*'
>
> Lines 1 through 17 are all comments or blank lines. And here's what's
> in
> inst.h at line 21:
>
> class instrument
> {
> private:
> --> FILE* fp;
>
> I know next to nothing about C++ programming, so am I missing
> something
> obvious here ? I figure there must be some good C++ programmers on
> this
> list, I hope no-one minds my asking here...
>
> == Dave Phillips
>
> http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html
> http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linux_soundapps.html
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Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:30:57 -0800
From: Erik Spjut
Subject: Re: instrument design?
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To: Qian Chen , Csound
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At 4:09 AM -0800 2/2/98, Qian Chen wrote:
>Hi, there
>
>Since I first got intersted in csound and dsp, I have always been
>wondering whether there are some methods when I want to generate a
>specific sound?
Inverse problems are often very difficult. Csound and other related
technologies are very good at answering the question: If I use this
algorithm, what will it sound like? The inverse problem: If I want this
sound, what algorithm do I use?, has an infinite number of solutions, and
an infinitely larger number of non-solutions. Those who are best at it tend
to use a combination of intuition, analysis, and a trained ear.
My personal heuristics are:
1) If I want the sound of a physical instrument (e.g., a violin) I hunt
down someone who knows how to play one, and with liberal quantities of food
and beverages (and promises of fame and glory) try to persuade them to play
it for me.
2) If I want lots of close-to-physical instruments, I use samples of the
same. I'll occasionally use hetero/adsyn, lpanal/lpread, or pvanal/pvoc on
the samples to get what I want.
3) If I want synthy-electronicky sounds I rely on my 25+ years of
experience with oscillators, signal generators, and analog synths, and my
15+ years of experienc with digital synthesis to pick a starting point, and
then I tinker until it's close enough.
4) I play with all of the new opcodes in Csound when I have the time (I'm
presently way behind).
5) When someone poses an interesting question on the list I spend a little
time looking for a solution or two.
If you know enough about your sound to describe it EXACTLY in terms of
frequency content versus time, there are a number of methods in Csound to
realize it exactly. Unfortunately, people usually think of sounds like: I
want a cross between a piccolo and a tuba that plucks and pitch-bends like
a guitar, but I want it to sing Swahili and sound like it's being played in
the National Cathedral. All of the experienced Csounders already have their
minds going on how to do it, but there is NO general algorithm to get
there. Sorry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Spjut (rhymes with cute) - Acting Director,The Center for Design Education
and/or Associate Professor of Engineering
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
Erik_Spjut@hmc.edu Ph & Voice mail (909) 607-3890 Fax (909) 621-8967
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From: Dave Phillips
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To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: a C++ question
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Many thanks to all who responded. I had indicated stdio.h in plus.h, but
I had a bad path. I have new problems now, but at least the first object
has compiled. Thank you !
== Dave Phillips
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linux_soundapps.html
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From: David Schuyeteneer
To: csound mailing list
Subject: HETERO/ADSYN ??
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:01:47 +0100
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For what purpose are hetero and the other executables that come with the
Csound executable ??
Spectral analysis ?
David.
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Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:29:30 -0600
From: pete moss
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To: Qian Chen , csound
Subject: Re: instrument design?
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i think you have just hit on the main problem of synthesis. i often use
a three tiered approach to get the sound i want.
1) use my vastly limited knowledge of sound synthesis techniques and
tinker around with some things that might have some particular quality i
am looking for.
2) listen to other sources. the other day i heard a bell like sound in
a video game i was playing. i took the recording, filtered out all the
nonessential junk with cool edit pro, and analized the spectrum,
envelope, etc. and reconstructed the sound in csound, so well in fact
that i can barely tell the difference. of course, if i had given it 5
minutes thought, i could have done it from scratch, but it is so fun to
tinker with analysis.
3) take my minidisc recorder and find someone who plays an instrument
with a similar sound to what i am thinking of. then i tinker with that
sound and usually screw it all up to create my new sound.
basically i just use a little intuition and creative thinking to achieve
my sounds. of course, many great sounds i have discovered by accident.
i have come to realize that the art of sound synthesis is 50%
ineptitude.
pete
Qian Chen wrote:
> Hi, there
>
> If this is off topic, please let me know.
>
> Since I first got intersted in csound and dsp, I have always been
> wondering whether there are some methods when I want to generate a
> specific sound? As a programmer, I know that there are a lot of
> algorithms to realize some result I expect. But as for sound
> generation, I have learned AM, FM, waveshaping... but have no idea
> about what to do when I really think out of a sound. What I have to
> do is just trying again and again. Sometimes I got what I want, but
> it is very seldom for me. Could someone tell me what to do?
>
> Regards
>
> ==
> Qian Chen
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: pete moss
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Subject: randomize rnd()???
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does anyone know how to randomize and/or set a seed value for the new
rnd(x) function? i keep getting the same series of numbers every time i
run a score.
pete
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From: Richard Dobson
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To: Qian Chen
Cc: Csound
Subject: Re: instrument design?
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This is such a big question, and the story of my life, that I don't
think any short reply can really deal with it! I like Paul Lansky's
statement to the effect that 'we are not limited by our imagination, we
are limited by our ability to describe sound'. So the problem is mapping
our internal description of a sound to an available (or
able-to-be-described) instrument. Description depends on a vocabulary,
and unfortunately the gulf between our everyday musical/sonic vocabulary
and that associated with computer synthesis is very large. Musicians,
composers especially, are very opportunistic - they exploit and explore
what is available, with a fair amount of trial and error, and thus new
instruments, new sounds, arise incrementally. Very often the 'errors'
prove to be the key - for example, multiphonics on wind instruments can
be seen as wrong fingerings and poor technique raised to an art form.
Those sounds weere always there, but they had to wait until someone said
'wow! what a great sound' instead of 'ugh! what a horrible sound'. There
is even a motto amongst African Drummers - 'every wrong note is a new
style'.
So, important as theories and methods are, trial and error as a
technique has the strength of history behind it - many would say that in
most cases, it is the prime mover, and the trials simply get better, and
the errors more interesting, with practice. So stick with it!
Richard Dobson
PS: I think this is very much 'on topic'!
Qian Chen wrote:
> Hi, there
>
> If this is off topic, please let me know.
>
> Since I first got intersted in csound and dsp, I have always been
> wondering whether there are some methods when I want to generate a
> specific sound? As a programmer, I know that there are a lot of
> algorithms to realize some result I expect. But as for sound
> generation, I have learned AM, FM, waveshaping... but have no idea
> about what to do when I really think out of a sound. What I have to
> do is just trying again and again. Sometimes I got what I want, but
> it is very seldom for me. Could someone tell me what to do?
>
> Regards
>
> ==
> Qian Chen
Qian Chen wrote:
> Hi, there
>
> If this is off topic, please let me know.
>
> Since I first got intersted in csound and dsp, I have always been
> wondering whether there are some methods when I want to generate a
> specific sound? As a programmer, I know that there are a lot of
> algorithms to realize some result I expect. But as for sound
> generation, I have learned AM, FM, waveshaping... but have no idea
> about what to do when I really think out of a sound. What I have to
> do is just trying again and again. Sometimes I got what I want, but
> it is very seldom for me. Could someone tell me what to do?
>
> Regards
>
> ==
> Qian Chen
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:21:17
To: Csound
From: Hans Mikelson
Subject: Re: instrument design?
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Hi,
One technique I've been using lately is to look at the frequency analysis
and use a combination of fof and filtered noise to match the frequencies
present in the sound I'm trying to synthesize.
Another technique is to try and think about what is happening and come up
with some type of "physical model" of the sound. This usually doesn't pan
out too well for me.
If I want new sounds I often look to mathematics especially books by
Clifford Pickover, Martin Gardner & A. K. Dewdney and others. Look for
patterns in the universe that will sound good. A function that is too busy
will just sound like noise, something too simple is not very interesting.
Look for functions or phenomena that lie somewhere in between. Something
that generates a fairly simple waveform but evolves over time or with
respect to some input parameters.
Experience in programming synthesizers helps a lot because there you can
get instant feed back on your changes and develop an intuitive feel for
what will happen with things like attack, decay, filter frequency cut-off,
resonance, low frequency oscillators, FM synthesis etc.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
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To: Qian Chen
From: Roger King
Subject: Re: instrument design?
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 04:06:52 +0000
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Chen, you asked about instrument design.
Have you checked out the FTP index containing
the works of John Fitch, Richard Boulanger, Russ Pinkston
and others? How about Jeff Harrington's DX7 .orc file?
ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/platforms/pc/orchestras+scores/compositions
Some of those examples may be too complicated, but if you
read the .orc from the 'out' back up through all the perf
passes you begin to get a feel for the differences between
software synthesis and hardware synthesis.
Boulanger, for example, names an instrument
after an actual colour: upon analysis you can see how the
generated signal gets transformed into something
distinct.
As you know, the typical analog hardware instrument sports a
voltage control oscillator, voltage control filter, envelope
generator, and voltage control amplifier. In Csound you find
some of those controls in both the .orc and .sco files. The
path of the signal through the system is not as clear; however,
through proper commenting you can attempt to achieve a
tranquel perspective of what effects signal output.
;-------------- "Pink and Blue" ----------------------
sr = 44100
kr = 441
ksmps = 100
nchnls = 2
instr 1
;VOLTAGE CONTROL AMPLIFIER
irub = p4
kline linseg 1,0.03,1500, p3,800,p3/2,0
kramp line 1, p3, 1011
;FREQUENCY MODULATOR
i1 = p5
islide = p7
i2 = p6
k1 phasor i1
k3 phasor i2
kpch table k1 * 4, 1
kpch2 table k1 * 4, 3
kpch3 table k1 * 4, 5
kpch4 table k3 * 4, 7
kpch5 table k3 * 4,10
kbw table k1 * 4, 9
;VOLTAGE CONTROL OSCILATOR
a1 oscil kline*islide, cpspch(kpch*irub), 2
a2 oscil kline, cpspch(kpch2*irub), 4
a3 oscil kline,cpspch(kpch*irub),2
a3a buzz kramp, cpspch(kpch3), 3, 6
k2 = cpspch(kpch4)
krand randh 1,10
a4 oscil kline, cpsoct(krand+k2), 8
a5 pluck kline+1500, cpspch(kpch4),1760 , 0, 1
a6 pluck kline+1500, cpspch(kpch5),1760 , 0, 1
;VOLTAGE CONTROL FILTER
a3b balance a3a, a1
a4b balance a4, a1
a1l = a6 + a3b + a2
a1r = a5 + a4b + a3
aleft balance a1l, a1
asig1 tone aleft, 440
aright balance a1r, a1
asighi atone aright, 440
asig2 reson asighi, 1760, 2000
outs asig1,asig2
endin
;---------------- .sco -------------------------
f1 0 64 2 8.04 5.07 9.09 7.10
f2 0 8192 10 0 10 0
f3 0 64 2 4.10 10.09 7.10 9.09
f4 0 8192 10 10 0 10
f5 0 64 2 8.09 9.01 4.05 10.03
f6 0 2049 10 7 3 0
f7 0 64 2 8.04 5.02 9.04 10.07
f8 0 2049 10 0 2.5 5 10 0
f9 0 64 2 400 40 4 0.4 0.04
f10 0 64 2 10.05 11.01 10.05 10.03
t 0 180 4 150 6 90 8 60
;p1 p2 p3 p4 p5 p6 p7
;i on dur rub phase 1 phase 2 amp slide
i1 0 8 4.58697 4 4 1
i1 4 6 1.237475 2 1 >
i1 6 5 3.5982 1 3 >
i1 7 4 1.4 3 2 3
i1 8 3 2.5868 2 5 1
e
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Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:08:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "Matt J. Ingalls"
Cc: Csound
Subject: Re: instrument design?
In-Reply-To: <34D64780.C40E23B8@cableinet.co.uk>
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(please pardon my english)
> instruments, new sounds, arise incrementally. Very often the 'errors'
> prove to be the key - for example, multiphonics on wind instruments can
> be seen as wrong fingerings and poor technique raised to an art form.
i am presently fascinated by 'poor technique' (both in my clarinet
playing and eamus) although i dont like your (Richard's) metaphor - i
think
multiphonics require a lot of technique - much more than squeaks,
badTone, "microtones" from wrong fingerings, etc...
in compMus -> digital pops,clicks, distortion, -noise- i find much more
interesting than "traditional" synthesis sonically (esp. experiencing
pops almost "visually" resting on the speaker cone). plus they have
attached meanings (being "bad technique") and inherently digital.
and what is this obsession with technique in "art"(academic?) electronic
music? i dont think its going to last very long. our tools are becoming
so powerful and accessible that almost anyone can make "cool sounds" with
a click of a mouse these days. how can the elite (#include myself) keep
their status? f(Ear)??
this is just me spouTing off the
CrusT of my head...
anyway - i want to request that everyone *please* use discretion when
doing their "sound design" with CSound: there is enough
sequencer-trigger-pitch-domination-music already in the world. thinking
about it, i think the best csound piece would have one i-statement in the
score (or at least one per instrument) OR have 128*dur(in sec)
i-statements per instrument in the score
> 'wow! what a great horrible sound'
-matt
(i wish cw3=tb! (sp?) was on this list!)
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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:38 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: randomize rnd()???
To: kaeru@flash.net, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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You could try getting the seed from the current time for a simple
solution.
Vic.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: randomize rnd()???
Author: kaeru@flash.net at internet
Date: 02/02/98 21:31
does anyone know how to randomize and/or set a seed value for the new
rnd(x) function? i keep getting the same series of numbers every time i
run a score.
pete
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From: Marc Resibois
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To: "Matt J. Ingalls"
Cc: Csound
Subject: Re: instrument design?
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Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
> how can the elite (#include myself) keep their stat
Just by always going further than others, by daring and understanding...
Marc.
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Hello,
its the same as computerprogramming. In the beginning everything seems to be
difficult, but later you will learn to transform your imagination into
functioning code. As programmer you will discover how and what you do need to
approach but in the first time you will got a lot of frustrations. But with
this in mind I even got FM synthesis nearly handled :)
The difficult with CSound is that the parameters are not scaled like in
commercial synthesizers. Their parameters got a limited range which leads
imidently to musical sounds but they are totaly depend on the views of the
manufacturer. In cSound everything is possible and so often you render pure
noise or silence. But don't give up, it is a feature and freedom!
With friendly greetings,
Malte
--------------------------------------------------
Notstandskomitee / Das Kombinat
Industrial Electronic Art
http://members.aol.com/block4k7
--------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:23:57 +0000
From: Richard Dobson
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Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
> i am presently fascinated by 'poor technique' (both in my
> clarinet
> playing and eamus) although i dont like your (Richard's) metaphor - i
> think
> multiphonics require a lot of technique - much more than squeaks,
> badTone, "microtones" from wrong fingerings, etc...
Oh yes, I agree; sorry, my comment was deliberately just a little
frivolous. I am a flute player, and I was amused to see that one
multiphonic in the Bartolozzi book was simply a normal top D fingering,
underblown - something us teachers try to stop our young Grade3 players
from doing!
> and what is this obsession with technique in "art"(academic?)
> electronic
> music?
My definition of 'technique' is simply 'the ability to achieve a goal',
with a subscript - 'as efficiently and economically as possible'. Anyone
who has goals, especially in making something, needs technique, because
resources and time (for us) are finite.
> -matt
>
> (i wish cw3=tb! (sp?) was on this list!)
Richard Dobson
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