Re: C++Sound

Date	1998-09-15 13:59
From	Koen Dejonghe
Subject	Re: C++Sound
	Richard, I am sorry if I was unclear. I really meant the orc/sco code. I have not seen the source code to build CSound yet, I downloaded a pre-compiled version, and I'm (almost) happy with it. The first time I saw CSound "programs" (read orc/sco files) I couldn't help thinking that this looked a lot like the assembly language used a thousand years ago. What I meant was that an object-oriented version of the CSound language would be great. Imagine base classes of instruments (the score being a member of the instrument) that you can re-use, inheriting all of its components, but adding or changing some parameters here and there (e.g. the score). I have no idea what it would look like, I only have a strong gut feeling that the language of CSound could do with a major revamp. I'm just brainstorming right now: first the new language would have to be designed, based on object-oriented design principles. Then, in a first phase) a preprocessor built which translates the new language into CSound orc/sco's (maybe in Perl). Then you invoke the CSound compiler. Later the preprocessor and the compiler could be integrated into one program. No, it will not improve the speed. And of course, I don't have the time to do it myself, and even if I had it, I'm afraid I'm not smart enough. Koen Dejonghe ---Richard Dobson wrote: > > I presume you mean the souce code, not the orc/score syntax? > > I think it depends on how inportant 'fashion' is. I am writing some simple dsp > routines (quasi-opcodes) in C++ because it is easy and convenient - I can plug > bits together very quickly. However, I am under no illusions that the result > runs particularly efficiently. Despite the style of its code (which is > continually being improved, anyway) Csound runs remarkably quickly - witness the > number of users who get it to work in real-time. > > There are also some platforms, such as the Atari (still very much in use!) for > which C++ is not available, and one of the most important aspects of Csound is > that the core code will compile and run on just about any platform which > supports a C compiler. > > Also, from all the books I have read, a surface revamp of this sort of C code > into C++ does not usually work well, and can even introduce more problem than it > solves. A good idiomatic C++ version of Csound would almost certainly have to be > written from scratch. Although C++ has now been 'standardized' there are still > areas of uncertainty, and significant differences between implementations, which > could lead to portability problems. > > Actually, there is a bit of C++ code in Csound - in the GUI part of Winsound. It > currently sits in a rather uneasy relationship with the more unix-ish parts of > the code, but it is there. And ironically, some code (the physical modelling > opcodes) has been converted from C++ to C! > > It is an interesting idea, nevertheless, and if someone came up with a > base-class definitition for an opcode (complete with krate and arate methods) I > would be very glad to try it out! > > > Richard Dobson > > > Koen Dejonghe wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > As a developer who programs in a variety of languages, I am baffled by > > the old fashioned way of writing CSound. It is very powerfull indeed, > > but so is Assembler. It is also very cumbersome to get even the least > > of sounds working. (I know I'm kicking some people's shins right now.) > > > > Is anybody working on a higher level version of CSound ? Can we expect > > a C++Sound in the future ? > > > > Thanks for reading and responding. > > > > Kind regards, > > Koen Dejonghe > > > > == > > Koen Dejonghe > > QAD Service Line > > Origin International Competences & Alliances > > http://www.origin-it.com > > +32 2 712 3668 > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > DO YOU YAHOO!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > == Koen Dejonghe QAD Service Line Origin International Competences & Alliances http://www.origin-it.com +32 2 712 3668 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17226; 15 Sep 98 14:15 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28934; 15 Sep 98 14:15 BST Received: (qmail 26380 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 13:15:54 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 13:15:54 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA22967); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:11:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:11:29 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA28002); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:11:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from [138.38.97.36] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2) id 0zIutA-0000HU-00; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:11:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 14:11:19 BST From: J P Fitch To: Koen Dejonghe cc: Richard Dobson , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: C++Sound Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Try looking at SAOL which is rather like Csoudn with structure. ==John Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17282; 15 Sep 98 14:35 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00826; 15 Sep 98 14:34 BST Received: (qmail 20006 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 13:34:55 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 13:34:55 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA01158); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:27:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:27:20 +0100 Received: from bbnrel4.hp.com [155.208.254.68] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA27993); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:26:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from bstde026.bbn.hp.com (bstde026.bbn.hp.com [15.136.78.25]) by bbnrel4.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id PAA16985 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:26:52 +0200 (METDST) Received: by bstde026.bbn.hp.com (1.39.111.2/16.2+BAMS 4.0 ISO+4.1) id AA165495918; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:25:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199809151325.AA165495918@bstde026.bbn.hp.com> Subject: Re: C++Sound To: koen_dejonghe@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:25:18 METDST Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <19980915125919.19347.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>; from "Koen Dejonghe" at Sep 15, 98 5:59 am Organization: Hewlett-Packard GmbH From: Jens Kilian Reply-To: Jens_Kilian@bbn.hp.com X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > What I meant was that an object-oriented version of the CSound > language would be great. Imagine base classes of instruments (the > score being a member of the instrument) that you can re-use, > inheriting all of its components, but adding or changing some > parameters here and there (e.g. the score). I have no idea what it > would look like, I only have a strong gut feeling that the language of > CSound could do with a major revamp. Have a look at CLM (Common Lisp Music). HTH, Jens. -- mailto:jjk@acm.org phone:+49-7031-14-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698) http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-14-7351 PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, 0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake] Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17314; 15 Sep 98 14:50 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02265; 15 Sep 98 14:50 BST Received: (qmail 20905 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 13:50:33 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 13:50:33 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA12874); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:34 +0100 Received: from albion.bah.com [156.80.3.254] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA01223); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:46:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from badrat.com ([156.80.43.94]) by albion.bah.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA18061; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35FE6FEF.3F075EBE@badrat.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:47:27 -0400 From: James Garfield Reply-To: badrats@badrat.com Organization: BadRat Multimedia Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Koen Dejonghe CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: C++Sound References: <19980915065253.25037.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Koen Dejonghe wrote: > > As a developer who programs in a variety of languages, I am baffled by > the old fashioned way of writing CSound. It is very powerfull indeed, > but so is Assembler. What's wrong with Assembler???????? -- ====================================================================== James Garfield badrats@badrat.com BadRat Multimedia Productions http://www.badrat.com Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17378; 15 Sep 98 15:14 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04567; 15 Sep 98 15:14 BST Received: (qmail 22751 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 14:14:39 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 14:14:39 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA22317); Sat, 22 Aug 1998 04:31:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 22 Aug 1998 04:31:44 +0100 Received: from root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA20356); Sat, 22 Aug 1998 04:31:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from dante32.u.washington.edu (bbattey@dante32.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.106]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA35382; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:31:46 -0700 Received: from localhost (bbattey@localhost) by dante32.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id UAA75178; Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:31:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:31:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "B. Battey" To: "Matt J. Ingalls" cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: gain, balance In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Given the time that I've expended just this evening fighting the amplitude-containment battle via trial and error on a slow pvoc-based instrument, I think such a feature would be very worthwhile. -=Bret On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Matt J. Ingalls wrote: > > i mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, with no response -- > if people would like Dave's feature Mike talks about below, > i could "port" it to be in canonical sources.. > (just needs a few mac->unix file things > and printf instead of progress dialog..) > > would just be an option flag, > -matt > > > > On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Mike Berry wrote: > > > The PowerPC version lets you write the file in floats and then automatically > > post-normalize to 16 bits. We assume post-normallization to 100%, but I don't > > think it would be too hard to make this settable. > > -- > > Mike Berry > > mikeb@nmol.com > > http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb > > > > > > > > Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17679; 15 Sep 98 17:31 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18419; 15 Sep 98 17:31 BST Received: (qmail 12813 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 16:31:18 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 16:31:18 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA14541); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:28:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:28:05 +0100 Received: from big.fishnet.net [204.89.144.3] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA07477); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:28:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from rcsreg.com (x236.core.fishnet.net [204.89.144.236] (may be forged)) by big.fishnet.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21768 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:26:04 -0700 Message-ID: <35FE9595.872916C0@rcsreg.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:28:06 +0000 From: Tobiah X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.1.119 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Csound Mailing List Subject: Re: C++Sound Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk If Csound is like assembler, then I revere it as the LCD that provides a portal from the ubiquitous limitations of 'higher level' sound specification schemes, into a blissful arena where the composer finally stands before the challenge of creation unencumbered, and fully armed. See how the C language is put into assembler code before it is made executable. The Csound score and orchestra syntax are both well suited to front end generation. I often make simple shell scripts that, given parameters, quickly generate and execute a csound orc and score pair, giving me a higher level of control in sound processing. The Spartan nature of the code facilitates this nicely. Toby -There otta be a law- > As a developer who programs in a variety of languages, I am baffled by > the old fashioned way of writing CSound. It is very powerfull indeed, > but so is Assembler. Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17943; 15 Sep 98 19:14 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29882; 15 Sep 98 19:14 BST Received: (qmail 18650 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 18:14:25 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 18:14:25 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA21847); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:07:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:07:44 +0100 Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA05942); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:07:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from [129.186.54.6] (mac5406.music.iastate.edu [129.186.54.6]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25340 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:07:42 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: cweston@pop-3.iastate.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:14:27 -0600 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Craig Weston Subject: Phase Quadrature Waveshaping Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Can anyone point me to a source about phase quadrature waveshaping? I've learned the technique well enough to code some c-sound instruments and have enjoyed using it, but I'd like to strengthen my grasp of the theory involved before attempting to teach it! ____________________________________________________________ \|Craig Weston \| \|Asst. Professor, Iowa State University \| \|Composition, Music Theory, Computer Music \| \| \| \|e-mail: cweston@iastate.edu \| \|WWW: http://www.music.iastate.edu/~weston \| \|__________________________________________________________\| Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18059; 15 Sep 98 19:55 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03983; 15 Sep 98 19:55 BST Received: (qmail 10534 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 18:55:06 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 18:55:06 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA02941); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:50:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:50:37 +0100 Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (TAA18809); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:50:36 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 30425 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 18:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.21) by jaguars with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 18:41:53 -0000 Message-ID: <35FEB284.38F3B121@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:31:32 +0100 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: C++Sound References: <19980915125919.19347.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I agree that SAOL is probably the closest to what you are describing, though I suspect it's still a way from being an object-oriented language in terms of such things as inheritance and polymorphism. Smalltalk is another obvious language, which is fairly widely used for computer music. None of these is Csound however, which is expressly a 'low-level' language, indeed emulating assembler... Koen Dejonghe wrote: > > Richard, > > I am sorry if I was unclear. I really meant the orc/sco code. I have > not seen the source code to build CSound yet, I downloaded a > pre-compiled version, and I'm (almost) happy with it. > > The first time I saw CSound "programs" (read orc/sco files) I couldn't > help thinking that this looked a lot like the assembly language used a > thousand years ago. ...which is of course still very much being used! There are also plenty advocating FORTH as a language for computer music - compact, expressive, powerful, but not object-oriented. Appropriateness for the task seems to end up being much more important to composers than how old or fashionable the language is. In OOP, the emphasis tends to be on the management of medium to large projects, in which months, if not years, may be spent on design, before any code is even written (well, that's the theory, anyway). Most Csound instruments and orchestras tend to be, by programming standards, fairly small objects, developed incrementally, for which a full object-oriented language is arguably overkill. At the compositional level, where abstractions are particularly important, OOP and functional languages (Smalltalk, lisp,nyquist etc) are widely used. The output from these might well be a Csound orchestra and score - Csound represents a viable low-level language for this task, while still being (relatively) readable. I am not up to date with the literature, but my impression is that a wide variety of custom 'front-ends' or preprocessors have been designed, to create both instruments and scores (though the emphasis has tended towards the latter). And I think Jean_Claude Risset still uses MUSIC-V! > What I meant was that an object-oriented version of the CSound > language would be great. Imagine base classes of instruments (the > score being a member of the instrument) that you can re-use, > inheriting all of its components, but adding or changing some > parameters here and there (e.g. the score). This would be perhaps even less object-oriented than Csound! If the score is a member of the instrument, strictly speaking it would be 'private'; at the very least, the coupling between the instrument and the score will be very tight, which is one of the things OOP programming strives to avoid - change the format of the score, and all the instruments have to be changed too. Rather, the score 'object' would send the instrument a message 'play this' - which, funnily enough, is more-or-less what happens already. There is coupling, of course - the pfields are in effect the 'public' variables of the instrument, so that it is all but impossible for all scores to be playable by all instruments. Csound composers rely on this low-level control and compact notation. However, the design of languages for synthesis and composition is still a huge research topic; there is plenty of room for new ideas, and if you can put more detail to yours, there may well be programmers on this list, and elsewhere, who would be interested to implement them. Richard Dobson Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18120; 15 Sep 98 20:35 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08012; 15 Sep 98 20:35 BST Received: (qmail 12775 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 19:35:40 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 19:35:40 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA12451); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:32:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:32:04 +0100 Received: from bq2369@cor.oz.cc.utah.edu [155.99.2.2] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA19243); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:32:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (bq2369@localhost) by cor.oz.cc.utah.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA13823 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:32:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:32:03 -0600 (MDT) From: bruce quaglia X-Sender: bq2369@cor To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: One more time, Book out yet? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I apologize if this is getting old...but, does anyone know if the "new" Csound book from MIT is going to be out soon? I heard last spring, and later, like this fall...it's september now so, anyone "in-the-know" have up to date info on when this book will be released. I think Richard Boulanger is editor and MIT is the publisher...don't see it yet at the MIT press site. thanks, Bruce Bruce Quaglia University of Utah Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18174; 15 Sep 98 21:06 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10964; 15 Sep 98 21:06 BST Received: (qmail 23485 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 20:06:11 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 20:06:11 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA16291); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:02:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:02:40 +0100 Received: from root@www.inx.de [195.21.255.251] by hermes via SMTP (VAA27886); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:02:39 +0100 (BST) Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from berlin.snafu.de (195.21.37.58) with esmtp id ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:02:40 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <35FEE54A.6994E942@berlin.snafu.de> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:08:11 +0000 From: Andre Bartetzki Organization: STEAM HfM Berlin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound list Subject: Re: MidiToCsound anyone [mac] References: <199809150942.CAA17868@mail1.sirius.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Edward Spiegel wrote: > > Does anyone out there use the Mac program "MidiToCsound"? > > I'm finding that it's output doesn't work (the durations come out funky > and there are no instrument numbers). I'm wondering if there is a trick. > > Thanks, > > Edward At first you have to assign instrument numbers to MIDI channels (see MIDI in the menue). If your instrument(s) have additional params (p4, p5, p6, p7) you can map one MIDI message or byte to each pfield. Another possible problem applies to the midi file formats (0,1,2). I think that MIDIToCsound supports only format 0 and 1 (one multichannel track or simultaneous tracks). Andre -- -------------------------------------------------- Andre Bartetzki http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~abart Studio fuer elektroakustische Musik http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/~abart/Steam/steam.html Hochschule fuer Musik Berlin http://www.hfm-berlin.de Tel. +49-30-4726629 Tel. +49-30-203092488 -------------------------------------------------- Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18323; 15 Sep 98 22:23 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18617; 15 Sep 98 22:23 BST Received: (qmail 26507 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 21:23:03 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 21:23:03 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA06551); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:19:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:19:03 +0100 Received: from root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA16857); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:19:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from charlieb.com (IDENT:baker@baker.vip.best.com [206.86.232.121]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.0/8.9.0/best.out) with ESMTP id OAA17856; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35FE7720.95791B99@charlieb.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:18:08 +0000 From: Charles Baker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Craig Weston , "csound@maths.ex.ac.uk" Subject: Re: Phase Quadrature Waveshaping References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Craig Weston wrote: > Can anyone point me to a source about phase quadrature waveshaping? I've > learned the technique well enough to code some c-sound instruments and have > enjoyed using it, but I'd like to strengthen my grasp of the theory > involved before attempting to teach it! > Sure: A good tutorial article was C. Roads 'ATutorial on non-linear Distortion or Waveshaping synthesis' CMJ 3(3):29-34 1979., reprinted in Foundations of Computer Music,MIT Press 1985. The classic early writer on waveshaping wasJames Beauchamp, try 'Brass tone Synthesis by Spectrum Evolution Matching with Non-linear functions' CMJ 3(2):35-43 1979, also repinted Foundations of Computer Music.. and the best technical treatment I know of was Marc LeBrun 'Digital Waveshaping Synthesis', Journal of the Audio Engineering Society 27(4):250-266, 1979 Hope these help!CharlieBbaker@ccrma.stanford.edu cbaker@verity.com baker@charlieb.com > ____________________________________________________________ > \|Craig Weston \| > \|Asst. Professor, Iowa State University \| > \|Composition, Music Theory, Computer Music \| > \| \| > \|e-mail: cweston@iastate.edu \| > \|WWW: http://www.music.iastate.edu/~weston \| > \|__________________________________________________________\| -- ******************************************* Charlie Baker baker@charlieb.com "We die with the dying: See, they depart, and we go with them. We are born with the dead: See, they return, and bring us with them." T.S.Eliot, Four Quartets: Little Gidding,V ***************************************** Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18342; 15 Sep 98 22:46 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa20918; 15 Sep 98 22:46 BST Received: (qmail 19909 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 21:46:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 21:46:05 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA22177); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:42:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:42:26 +0100 Received: from mail2.sirius.com [205.134.253.132] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA26880); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:42:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from [205.134.241.61] (ppp-asfm06--061.sirius.net [205.134.241.61]) by mail2.sirius.com (8.8.7/Sirius-8.8.7-97.08.12) with SMTP id OAA08403; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809152142.OAA08403@mail2.sirius.com> Subject: Converting midi pitch to cps? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 14:46:37 -0700 x-sender: espiegel@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Edward Spiegel To: Andre Bartetzki , csound list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk OK. So, the problem I was having with MidiToCSound was that it doesn't output the pitch by default. Now that I've got that working, I have a new question. MidiToCSound expresses the pitch as the midi note number. Is there a pitch converter that will take a midi note number value and convert it to cps, pch or oct format? As far as I can tell cpsmidi and cpsmidib only work for realtime stuff. I tried: icps = cpsmidi(p4) That doesn't work. Is there a pitch converter function that will do this? (I'm using the latest CSound for PPC from Mills). Here is a sample of what midiToCsound puts out i 1 0.000 0.237 48 i 1 0.000 0.237 72 i 1 0.250 0.237 55 i 1 0.250 0.237 63 Thanks, Edward Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18362; 15 Sep 98 22:51 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21489; 15 Sep 98 22:51 BST Received: (qmail 27299 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 21:51:55 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 21:51:55 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA10024); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:49:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:49:00 +0100 Received: from PACIFIC-CARRIER-ANNEX.MIT.EDU [18.69.0.28] by hermes via SMTP (WAA22606); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:48:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from MIT.MIT.EDU by MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA08034; Tue, 15 Sep 98 17:48:12 EDT Received: from CASEBIND.MIT.EDU by MIT.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA05277; Tue, 15 Sep 98 17:48:56 EDT Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35FE7720.95791B99@charlieb.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:44:34 -0400 To: Craig Weston , "csound@maths.ex.ac.uk" From: Douglas Sery Subject: Re: Phase Quadrature Waveshaping Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm not sure whether this is considered good form or not, so I apologize beforehand if it is. The MIT Press will have an exhibit at ICMC, so please stop by if you'd like to look through Foundations of Computer Music or any of the other Computer Music books published by The MIT Press. We'll also have the draft manuscript of The Csound Book, edited by Richard Boulanger, on hand. -Doug At 14:18 +0000 9/15/98, Charles Baker wrote: >Craig Weston wrote: > > >> Can anyone point me to a source about phase quadrature waveshaping? I've >> learned the technique well enough to code some c-sound instruments and have >> enjoyed using it, but I'd like to strengthen my grasp of the theory >> involved before attempting to teach it! >> > >Sure: >A good tutorial article was C. Roads 'ATutorial on non-linear Distortion or >Waveshaping synthesis' CMJ 3(3):29-34 1979., >reprinted in Foundations of Computer Music,MIT Press 1985. >The classic early writer on waveshaping wasJames Beauchamp, try >'Brass tone Synthesis by Spectrum Evolution Matching with Non-linear >functions' >CMJ 3(2):35-43 1979, also repinted Foundations of Computer Music.. >and the best technical treatment I know of was Marc LeBrun 'Digital >Waveshaping Synthesis', >Journal of the Audio Engineering Society 27(4):250-266, 1979 >Hope these help!CharlieBbaker@ccrma.stanford.edu >cbaker@verity.com >baker@charlieb.com > >> ____________________________________________________________ >> \|Craig Weston \| >> \|Asst. Professor, Iowa State University \| >> \|Composition, Music Theory, Computer Music \| >> \| \| >> \|e-mail: cweston@iastate.edu \| >> \|WWW: http://www.music.iastate.edu/~weston \| >> \|__________________________________________________________\| > > > >-- >***************************************** >Charlie Baker baker@charlieb.com >"We die with the dying: > See, they depart, and we go with them. > We are born with the dead: > See, they return, and bring us with them." >T.S.Eliot, Four Quartets: Little Gidding,V >******************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Douglas Sery (617) 253-5187 (tel) Editor - Computer Science (617) 258-6779 (fax) The MIT Press dsery@mit.edu Five Cambridge Center http://mitpress.mit.edu Cambridge, MA 02142-1493 Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18430; 15 Sep 98 23:24 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24795; 15 Sep 98 23:24 BST Received: (qmail 28387 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 22:24:48 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 22:24:48 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA01440); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:20:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:20:47 +0100 Received: from root@jason04.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.5] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA04989); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:20:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from dante26.u.washington.edu (bbattey@dante26.u.washington.edu [140.142.15.100]) by jason04.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id PAA33530; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:20:49 -0700 Received: from localhost (bbattey@localhost) by dante26.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id PAA46914; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:20:48 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:20:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "B. Battey" To: David Schuyeteneer cc: Csound List Subject: Re: Smoothest possible REVERB ?? In-Reply-To: <19980913183159560.AAA258@turing.hogent.be> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, David Schuyeteneer wrote: > I need a long reverb that is at the same very, very smooth reverb on this, > so that the pulses do not reverberate in the > typical grainy, echoey reverb.. Last month, I tried using convolution for reverb for the first time. I used an impulse sample from Howard Fredericks's site (http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~fredrics/isrc.html - I used the Domkyrkan sample). The results were quite beautiful - certainly so in comparison to sending sharp-edged sounds through nrev. I attained a wonderfully long, perfectly clear reverb tail. I haven't used convolution for a complete piece yet, but the downsides I have seen thus far are: it takes significantly longer to compute and you don't have the kind of control over reverb character that you do through conventional reverbs - unless you dynamically choose different impulse files. Handling the delay correctly is an additional burden. Since I work through Common Music to make my sco files, I've setup my Csound instruments and Common Music object-types so I can do all of my rough work using nrev and then quickly swap to convolution for my final product. -=Bret Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18453; 15 Sep 98 23:44 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa26706; 15 Sep 98 23:44 BST Received: (qmail 22113 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 22:43:57 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 22:43:57 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA22921); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:41:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:41:13 +0100 Received: from root@ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA02660); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:41:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from noc1.eatel.net (root@noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.243]) by ns1.eatel.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25824 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:52:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.62.40.16] (tnt1-16.eatel.net [209.62.40.16]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19639 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:41:10 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: arals@mail.eatel.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:46:48 -0500 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Aaron Johnson Subject: igauss not recognized by 3.485(mac) Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Csound 3.485 (mac) is not recognizing the igauss opcode I am using in my .orc. The earlier version of Csound has no problem with it. Is this a bug, an omission, or.....? And another thing, is their a manual for all available opcodes for 3.485 anywhere? Thanks, Aaron Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18459; 15 Sep 98 23:44 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa26734; 15 Sep 98 23:44 BST Received: (qmail 28988 invoked from network); 15 Sep 1998 22:44:09 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 Sep 1998 22:44:09 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA21277); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:41:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:40:59 +0100 Received: from root@ns1.eatel.net [207.101.8.253] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA22895); Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:40:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from noc1.eatel.net (root@noc1.eatel.net [207.101.8.243]) by ns1.eatel.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25800 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:52:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [209.62.40.16] (tnt1-16.eatel.net [209.62.40.16]) by noc1.eatel.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA19536 for ; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:40:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: arals@mail.eatel.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:46:33 -0500 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Aaron Johnson Subject: problem with GEN 05 and SCORE GENERATOR? Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Sometimes when I use GEN 05 as a grain envelope with the score generator, an annoying popping sound is produced. Are there any known issues concerning this or am I alone on this one? Aaron Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18846; 16 Sep 98 3:38 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22282; 16 Sep 98 3:38 BST Received: (qmail 4500 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 02:38:31 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 02:38:31 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA02553); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:35:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:35:14 +0100 Received: from mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA07495); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:35:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from [205.134.241.140] (ppp-asfm07--140.sirius.net [205.134.241.140]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.8.8/Sirius-8.8.7-97.08.12) with SMTP id TAA29823; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199809160235.TAA29823@mail1.sirius.com> Subject: Re: Converting midi pitch to cps? Date: Tue, 15 Sep 98 19:39:30 -0700 x-sender: espiegel@pop.sirius.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Edward Spiegel To: d1st@earthlink.net, csound list MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The version of Midi to CSound has no version number but it has a modified date of June 3 1992. As for your crash, did you try increasing the memory partition? I am running on system 7.6.1. It seems to run fine. The Csound version is the release that comes with 3.485 which was only released in the last week or two. What is crashing CSound or Midi to Csound? I run Midi to CSound as a separate app. So, I'm not sure how the crash could be attributable to CSound (or is there a way to get CSound to output a .sco from a midi file?) When you used it, how did you convert the note numbers to pitches that CSound understands. David First wrote: >Hi Edward - > >I'm curious as to what version MIDI to Csound you are using and where you got >it. I tried using it recently for the first time in a while and it kept >crashing my computer. I didn't know whether to attribute it to an OS upgrade >(8.1), to a later version of Mills Csound (the most recent), or whatever. I'd >still like to be able to use it, but when I posted to the list just a couple >of weeks ago, I was told it no longer works. Obviously you've gotten it to do >_something_. According to your post you are using the latest Mills so that >rules that out... > >Thanks, > >David First Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18901; 16 Sep 98 4:13 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa25689; 16 Sep 98 4:13 BST Received: (qmail 471 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 03:13:01 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 03:13:01 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA02176); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:10:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:10:07 +0100 Received: from out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA08181); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:10:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from ibm.net (slip166-72-74-178.dc.us.ibm.net [166.72.74.178]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA47884 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:10:06 GMT Message-ID: <35FF2C99.30225DF9@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:12:25 -0400 From: Job van Zuijlen Reply-To: zuijlen@ibm.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Csound List Subject: Re: C++Sound References: <19980915125919.19347.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I think the strong point of Csound is that it is NOT object-oriented. You do not want to have to deal with the higher-level concepts of someone else telling you what an instrument is supposed to be. For Csound the result seems to be an active community of users and regular additions of new opcodes from among those users. And, like someone remarked, even if it is like assembler, what's wrong with that? It is nice to have a language in which you can tweak things without being bothered by classes or what have you. My main complaint would be about the score language, which seems to view a score is a series of events ordered in time. Some MIDI sequencers let you do interesting things with repeating patterns, which could be of different length (Logic Notator lets you do that, for example). Have others felt those limitations and found a solution? Job van Zuijlen Koen Dejonghe wrote: > > Richard, > > I am sorry if I was unclear. I really meant the orc/sco code. I have > not seen the source code to build CSound yet, I downloaded a > pre-compiled version, and I'm (almost) happy with it. > > The first time I saw CSound "programs" (read orc/sco files) I couldn't > help thinking that this looked a lot like the assembly language used a > thousand years ago. > > What I meant was that an object-oriented version of the CSound > language would be great. Imagine base classes of instruments (the > score being a member of the instrument) that you can re-use, > inheriting all of its components, but adding or changing some > parameters here and there (e.g. the score). I have no idea what it > would look like, I only have a strong gut feeling that the language of > CSound could do with a major revamp. > > I'm just brainstorming right now: first the new language would have to > be designed, based on object-oriented design principles. Then, in a > first phase) a preprocessor built which translates the new language > into CSound orc/sco's (maybe in Perl). Then you invoke the CSound > compiler. Later the preprocessor and the compiler could be integrated > into one program. > > No, it will not improve the speed. And of course, I don't have the > time to do it myself, and even if I had it, I'm afraid I'm not smart > enough. > > Koen Dejonghe > Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18948; 16 Sep 98 4:50 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29299; 16 Sep 98 4:50 BST Received: (qmail 5804 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 03:50:39 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 03:50:39 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA12617); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:48:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:48:04 +0100 Received: from smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA24202); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:48:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from oemcomputer (207-172-125-72.s9.as7.nyb.erols.com [207.172.125.72]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA26755; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35FF348C.3CA0@erols.com> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:46:20 -0400 From: Paul Winkler Reply-To: zarmzarm@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: zuijlen@ibm.net CC: Csound List Subject: Re: C++Sound References: <19980915125919.19347.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> <35FF2C99.30225DF9@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Job van Zuijlen wrote: (snip) > My main complaint would be about the score language, which seems to view > a score is a series of events ordered in time. Some MIDI sequencers let > you do interesting things with repeating patterns, which could be of > different length (Logic Notator lets you do that, for example). Have > others felt those limitations and found a solution? It's too early for me to say if it's a "solution" yet, at least for me, but I'm very optimistic about a score-manipulating "language" I've just started developing in Perl. Perl seems born for the task of manipulating csound files-- after all, they're just plain text! When I get something usable & interesting to work, I'll announce it on the list. It will, of course, be built around MY idiosyncratic wishes, but it'll be released under the GNU public license, so that shouldn't be a problem. :) Thanks to Eric Lyon for suggesting this route to me. Regards, PW Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa19026; 16 Sep 98 5:12 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01403; 16 Sep 98 5:12 BST Received: (qmail 6165 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 04:12:09 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 04:12:09 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA07222); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:09:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:09:21 +0100 Received: from root@jason05.u.washington.edu [140.142.78.6] by hermes via ESMTP (FAA07884); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:09:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from homer14.u.washington.edu (karpen@homer14.u.washington.edu [140.142.70.15]) by jason05.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id VAA22514; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:09:22 -0700 Received: from localhost (karpen@localhost) by homer14.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id VAA61596; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:09:21 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:09:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Karpen To: Paul Winkler cc: zuijlen@ibm.net, Csound List Subject: Re: C++Sound In-Reply-To: <35FF348C.3CA0@erols.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Rick Taube's Lisp-based Common Music is the absolute best event processor/score language around. It's a quite remarkable achievement. Anyone using Csound who wants a high-level programming language for making scores should take the time to learn it. Common Music can output csound note lists, midifiles, and a number of other formats for other synthesis and sound processing programs (CLM, CMix, RT...). It's great as a tool for composing "acoustic" music as well if you're into using computers as an aid to composition in general. Richard Karpen On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Paul Winkler wrote: > Job van Zuijlen wrote: > (snip) > > My main complaint would be about the score language, which seems to view > > a score is a series of events ordered in time. Some MIDI sequencers let > > you do interesting things with repeating patterns, which could be of > > different length (Logic Notator lets you do that, for example). Have > > others felt those limitations and found a solution? > > It's too early for me to say if it's a "solution" yet, at least for me, > but I'm very optimistic about a score-manipulating "language" I've just > started developing in Perl. Perl seems born for the task of manipulating > csound files-- after all, they're just plain text! > > When I get something usable & interesting to work, I'll announce it on > the list. It will, of course, be built around MY idiosyncratic wishes, > but it'll be released under the GNU public license, so that shouldn't be > a problem. :) > > Thanks to Eric Lyon for suggesting this route to me. > > Regards, > > PW > Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa19046; 16 Sep 98 5:36 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03784; 16 Sep 98 5:36 BST Received: (qmail 2753 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 04:36:06 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 04:36:06 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA18805); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:33:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:33:21 +0100 Received: from smtp1.jps.net [209.63.224.236] by hermes via ESMTP (FAA15986); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:33:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from hml ([209.142.59.111]) by smtp1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08024; Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001201bddea6$67336200$6f3b8ed1@hml> From: nunativs To: Richard Karpen , Paul Winkler Cc: zuijlen@ibm.net, Csound List MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork Subject: Re: C++Sound Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:35:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Richard Karpen To: Paul Winkler Cc: zuijlen@ibm.net ; Csound List Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 9:12 PM Subject: Re: C++Sound > >Rick Taube's Lisp-based Common Music is the absolute best event >processor/score language around. It's a quite remarkable achievement. >Anyone using Csound who wants a high-level programming language for making >scores should take the time to learn it. Common Music can output csound >note lists, midifiles, and a number of other formats for other synthesis >and sound processing programs (CLM, CMix, RT...). It's great as a tool for >composing "acoustic" music as well if you're into using computers as an >aid to composition in general. > I absolutely must agree hear that if someone wants a "sequencer" for Csound you have to check out Common Music. Though the learning curve is steep like Csound, and there is a lack of much documentation, it is worth it. As open ended and vast as Csound. Ken Locarnini Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa19324; 16 Sep 98 8:45 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22368; 16 Sep 98 8:45 BST Received: (qmail 16728 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 07:45:37 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 07:45:37 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA05839); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:38:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:38:31 +0100 Received: from agora.stm.it [195.62.32.1] by hermes via ESMTP (IAA20616); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:38:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from default (ppp02-28.dial-access.stm.it [195.62.37.92]) by agora.stm.it (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12192; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:38:16 +0200 (ITADST) Message-ID: <35FE04E4.318DC5@agora.stm.it> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:10:45 +0200 From: Gabriel Maldonado X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Koen Dejonghe CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions on NT and real-time MIDI X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19980915065554.14472.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk My realtime version is tested on win95 with directX 3.0 with SoundBlaster cards. Maybe it run also on WinNT. Please, inform me if it operates well also on WinNT. You can get it at the following URLs: http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/download.htm ftp://musart.dist.unige.it/pub/CSOUND/win95/ (read carefully the readme file. This version has several differences from standard version.) -- Gabriel Maldonado http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm Koen Dejonghe wrote: > Dear all, > > I have been listening to this list for a couple of months now. I've > been playing with CSound and I obtained some interesting results. > However, I still have a couple of questions. > > 1. Is it possible, on NT 4.0, to read from a MIDI device (using the -M > > option). In other words is there a /dev/midi equivalent on NT ? > > 2. Can I, again on NT, send the output of CSound straight to the sound > > processor in stead of first to a WAV file ? > > Thanks. > > Koen Dejonghe > > == > Koen Dejonghe > QAD Service Line > Origin International Competences & Alliances > http://www.origin-it.com > +32 2 712 3668 > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa20020; 16 Sep 98 11:32 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10723; 16 Sep 98 11:32 BST Received: (qmail 22440 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 10:32:29 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 10:32:29 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA05124); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:29:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:29:25 +0100 Received: from root@lix.intercom.es [194.179.21.2] by hermes via ESMTP (LAA02364); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:29:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from intercom.es (iv1-198.intercom.es [195.76.154.198]) by lix.intercom.es (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA26335; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:32:19 +0100 Message-ID: <35FF8F2B.40D54F3E@intercom.es> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:12:59 +0200 From: Josep M Comajuncosas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Craig Weston , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Phase Quadrature Waveshaping References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by exeter.ac.uk id LAA02364 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Craig Weston wrote: > Can anyone point me to a source about phase quadrature waveshaping? I'v= e > learned the technique well enough to code some c-sound instruments and = have > enjoyed using it, but I'd like to strengthen my grasp of the theory > involved before attempting to teach it! > I=B4m also intrigued about it. I think all you know about the subject cou= ld be useful for me... apart from the doc. cited in the Csound help file when t= alking about GEN13&14 from Palamin&palamin I don=B4t know other sources of info.= It is a phantom gen routine, I=B4ve never seen it used in practice, and I=B4m Cso= unding for 5 years... What is PHASE-QUADRATURE WAVESHAPING? ;-) Tnx in advance! Josep M Comajuncosas Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa20374; 16 Sep 98 13:00 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21370; 16 Sep 98 13:00 BST Received: (qmail 28812 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1998 12:00:03 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 12:00:03 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA15878); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:56:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:56:25 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA03566); Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:56:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from [138.38.99.25] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk id 0zJGCC-0003Ou-00; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:56:28 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 98 12:56:28 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Midi file/instrument mapping To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 15 Sep 1998 20:59:50 +0100 --- Copy of mail to espiegel@sirius.com --- In-reply-to: <199809142224.PAA25798@mail2.sirius.com> (message from Edward Spiegel on Mon, 14 Sep 98 15:28:30 -0700) References: <199809142224.PAA25798@mail2.sirius.com> Yes, instrunment n goes to chanel n unless massign is used to change the mapping. There is a rumour that massign does not work though... ==John ffitch

Date	1998-09-15 15:25
From	Jens Kilian
Subject	Re: C++Sound
	> What I meant was that an object-oriented version of the CSound > language would be great. Imagine base classes of instruments (the > score being a member of the instrument) that you can re-use, > inheriting all of its components, but adding or changing some > parameters here and there (e.g. the score). I have no idea what it > would look like, I only have a strong gut feeling that the language of > CSound could do with a major revamp. Have a look at CLM (Common Lisp Music). HTH, Jens. -- mailto:jjk@acm.org phone:+49-7031-14-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698) http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-14-7351 PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish,