| Jean-Michel DARREMONT wrote:
> I guess I need a C compiler. As I'm not a C programmer I'd like to find a
> cheap or free C compiler
> for PowerMac. Does it exist on the net?
I'm not where resources for the PowerMac would be located, but gcc is
a pretty good, and free, C compiler. It isn't particularly friendly
(but there might be a nice PowerMac front end for it). Look at
http://www.gnu.org/ and look at their software catalogue, and from
there look for GCC/GNU C compiler. There are various FTP sites
listed there. You might also look at your "usual" sources of Mac
PD/freeware/shareware.
> I guess I also need CSound source code; where is it available?
ftp://cecelia.media.mit.edu/pub/Csound has Mac sources, but designed to
compile with something called THINK C. Ask the person who ported it
originally to PowerMac to give you his sources, which might compile
under gcc anyway, OR simply ask him to change this limit himself (as
you're not a C programmer, and presumably have never used a C compiler,
I wouldn't fancy your chances of successfully compiling anything with
gcc anyway! ;) )
Sorry I can't be of more help (I'm not familiar with your specific
problem of PMAX limits so there might be a less technical solution).
Bye!
Ben.
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In-Reply-To: <359A152D.9EC38D84@club-internet.fr> (message from Jean-Michel
DARREMONT on Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:53:37 +0000)
Subject: Re: Increasing PMAX
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>> I guess I also need CSound source code; where is it available?
ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk:pub/dream/platforms/mac/Csound.sit.hqx
is Mac sources. Project files etc in same directory.
I will fix this limitation when I get time. have been thinking about
it....
==John
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Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:56:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Matt
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To: Pedro Batista
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: a simple perceptron
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On 1 Jul 1998, Pedro Batista wrote:
>
> here's a little coding example, a very rudimentary atempt at using neural
> processing based dsp
This is something I've been interested in for a while. As you point out,
using a perceptron for each individual sample is a bit of a pain. One
thing you might like to look at is recurrent networks.
I've just had a paper accepted for 'Simulated Adaptive Behaviour 98' on
the subject of 'Temporal Pattern Learning in a Spiking Neural Network',
and I'd be interested to discuss the issues involved (privately, it's a
little off topic) with anyone else who has attempted anything along these
lines. As yet, it's only useful for learning simple morsecode-like
patterns. I'm working on extending it to be able to learn more complex
patterns (I'm actually aiming at achieving something like birdsong
learning/production). I think the first step in improving your network
would be to move to a freq/time domain. I'll let you all know if I ever
achieve anything useful with all this.. I hope I do, because my thesis is
sort of relying on it :)
Matt
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Southall - AARG http://www.psyc.nott.ac.uk/research/aarg
AI Group, Dept. of Psychology, University of Nottingham, Nottingham NG7 2RD.
email: mjs@psychology.nottingham.ac.uk, tel: +44 (0)115951 5151 ext. 8311
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Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 07:58:50 -0700
From: Erik Spjut
Subject: Re: oneoverf
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f is the frequency (usually in cycles per second or Hz). For digital
samples it's usually given as a fraction of the sampling frequency.
One-over-f (1/f) means that the POWER spectrum of the signal varies as the
reciprocal of the frequency. There's usually a lower limit to the 1/f
relationship or else the DC component of the signal is infinite. The most
common way to check your spectrum is to take an FFT of a reasonably long
section of your signal, multiply by the complex conjugate of your FFT (i.e.
FFT*FFT(cc)) to get your power spectrum, and plot the log of power versus
the log of frequency. If your plot is more-or-less a straight line with a
slope of -1, you have 1/f noise. If, instead of power, you plot the log of
magnitude of the FFT versus the log of the frequency, you should get a
slope of -1/2. If you need to know what any of the terms I have used mean,
write me personally.
At 4:46 AM -0500 7/1/98, pete moss wrote:
>i recently wrote a small program to generate one over f noise. i know
>that the values produced should have a spectrumclose to one over f. any
>ideas how to do this? what does one over f mean? what does f mean?
>thanks
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Spjut (rhymes with cute) - Acting Director,The Center for Design Education
and/or Associate Professor of Engineering
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711 USA
Erik_Spjut@hmc.edu Ph & Voice mail (909) 607-3890 Fax (909) 621-8967
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Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:20:04 +0200
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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Subject: Re: Need More RAM?
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Hi David,
I don't think more ram will get rid of this problem. Try to increase the
buffer size.
Best
--
Gabriel Maldonado
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
David Boothe wrote:
> Hello Csound community-
>
> When performing an instrument that uses several adsyn statements, with
>
> RT Sound or DirectSound, I get a glitch, or repeated section shortly
> before the end of the performance. All the adsyn statements use the
> same
> hetro analysis file. The problem seems worse with DirectSound than RT
> Sound. Would more RAM help this situation? I am using a Pentium Pro
> with
> 32 meg RAM running Win95.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -dB
> (David M. Boothe, Audio Director
> Lyrick Studios, Dallas, TX)
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From: Pedro Batista
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: a simple perceptron
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Matt Southall wrote
>This is something I've been interested in for a while. As you point out,
>using a perceptron for each individual sample is a bit of a pain. One
>thing you might like to look at is recurrent networks.
yes, that was my first thought too. But recursive nets can hold AT MOST the
past six values, which is fine if youre training a 3 binary digit sequence,
but its impracticable for audio at 44.1 kHz (some reduction of the input
data can be performed, but I dont believe you can reduce audio data to the
point where 6 past values would be enough...)
But if you consider applying this line of thought to _midi_ data, instead of
sample data, then its a whole different scenario...
>I've just had a paper accepted for 'Simulated Adaptive Behaviour 98' on
>the subject of 'Temporal Pattern Learning in a Spiking Neural Network',
is it online? (would like to see it)
>and I'd be interested to discuss the issues involved (privately, it's a
>little off topic) with anyone else who has attempted anything along these
>lines
sure, I'd like that
>I think the first step in improving your network
>would be to move to a freq/time domain.
actually thats what I'm doing now :) this example was primarly meant to
assert how far could I go in computational power using csound; no practical
use whatsoever
concerning csound, some leads I'm working on include combining delay units
to give the net some recursiveness (several points of the sample are
presented to the net at each instant, so the net aint recursive, but the
input is presented in a recurrent form); other hipotesis are using the
csound utilities to extract audio info that would be more suitable to be
presented to the net; maybe pvanal can be used for that, but I'm still
studying the implications.
Of course my next attempts will use back-prop and hidden layers, but I must
reduce the presented audio info so that I dont have to deal with such big
arrays
One thing I know, is that this will still hold many challanges for my future
csound programming
pedro
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From: Richard Dobson
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To: pete moss
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Subject: Re: oneoverf
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There is active discussion of this on the music-dsp list at the moment.
The 'f' in '1/f' refers to frequency, and the whole signifies that the intensity
of the noise is inversely proportional frequency. The immediate practical aspect
is that there is equal power in each octave band (referred to as 'pink' noise by
sound engineers). To achieve this given a white noise source requires a filter
with a 3dB rolloff. The difficulty is that the simplest single-stage filter will
roll off at 6dB. One suggestion offered is to generate noise in each octave,
using randh, and simply mix the results together. It is of course a moot point
what the base pitch is for these octaves - for compositional applications, it is
often required to have 1/f sequences at very low rates - eg below 1Hz.
Another suggestion from the music-dsp list today is that a quite effective
empirical method is to mix white noise with the same noise filtered by a single
6dB stage. In short, the whole topic is fair game!
Try the web site: http://linkage.rockefeller.edu/wli/1fnoise
Richard Dobson
pete moss wrote:
>
> i recently wrote a small program to generate one over f noise. i know
> that the values produced should have a spectrumclose to one over f. any
> ideas how to do this? what does one over f mean? what does f mean?
> thanks
>
> pete
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This sounds like very much like a full-blown ActiveX control. It should
certainly be reasonable to add supoport for DirectShow interfaces (like any COM
interfaces). How would it be registered? As well as being an ActiveX control, in
DirectShow it could qualify as both a transform filter, and as a source filter.
Re a GUI: I think it would need to support a property page - or several.
Richard Dobson
Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> Here are some features I'd like to see in a COM server version of Csound:
>
> It would be an in-process, apartment-threaded COM server with a dual
> interface. This would make it easy to use both from C++ and from Visual
> Basic and it could also be used with Microsoft's J++ version of Java, which
> can automatically generate a Java proxy for most COM objects.
>
> It would have no self-contained GUI.
>
> It would have plugin opcodes and plugin function tables. These would use
> their own COM interfaces. This would allow Csound to be extended without
> having to relink it.
>
> Csound would work with standard COM interfaces to MIDI and audio drivers,
> i.e. DirectSound or ActiveMovie (I need to do some research about what is
> possible).
>
>
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To: csound
From: =cw4t7abs
Subject: Re: oneoverf
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>Another suggestion from the music-dsp list today is that a quite effective
>empirical method is to mix white noise with the same noise filtered by a single
>6dB stage. In short, the whole topic is fair game!
1/f noise can be generated by
2. arma modelling
3. random mid-point deflection method
4. fourier filtering method
\\ system call fopen failed
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Richard Dobson
Cc: csound
Subject: Re: compiler
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:04:09 -0400
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>This sounds like very much like a full-blown ActiveX control. It should
>certainly be reasonable to add supoport for DirectShow interfaces (like
any COM
>interfaces). How would it be registered?
The usual way - drop it on RegSrv32.exe. It would come with a standalone
"shell" that would register the COM library, also.
>As well as being an ActiveX control, in
>DirectShow it could qualify as both a transform filter, and as a source
filter.
That is exactly the idea.
>
>Re a GUI: I think it would need to support a property page - or several.
It might need a property page for controlling how it would appear in the
context of a containing window, like a Visual Basic form,
but really it mainly needs an embedded window for the actual user interface.
I have done these several times. Or maybe just a popup window.
Bear in mind, creating a full-blown ActiveX control is not necessary to make
Csound competitive with other software synthesizers and effects plugins. But
even if it were necessary, it is much eaiser with the ActiveX and Active
Template Library wizards.
Again, the main problem is not ActiveX, but the Csound process itself.
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Here are some features I'd like to see in a COM server version of Csound:
>>
>> It would be an in-process, apartment-threaded COM server with a dual
>> interface. This would make it easy to use both from C++ and from Visual
>> Basic and it could also be used with Microsoft's J++ version of Java,
which
>> can automatically generate a Java proxy for most COM objects.
>>
>> It would have no self-contained GUI.
>>
>> It would have plugin opcodes and plugin function tables. These would use
>> their own COM interfaces. This would allow Csound to be extended without
>> having to relink it.
>>
>> Csound would work with standard COM interfaces to MIDI and audio drivers,
>> i.e. DirectSound or ActiveMovie (I need to do some research about what is
>> possible).
>>
>>
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From: Robin Whittle
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Subject: Re: Xanadu benchmarks, was Re: Pentium/Linux csound speed boost
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I think the Xanadu piece is a much more realistic test of what I
want to do with Csound - intensive computations for fairly long
pieces, not simple synthesis or processing of short audio files.
The other problem with the original set of benchmarks is that the
CPU time taken to calculate them may now be just a fraction of the
time spent to write the results to disk. Since the benchmarks are
usually performed one after another, it would not be surprising if
the later benchmarks ran slower than the first ones because the RAM
cached disk buffers of the first benchmarks' outputs are being
written to disk while the later benchmarks are being run.
An easy test for this is to re-order the benchmarks and see how the
times vary.
I am not quite organised to do this, but will report on it when I
am. I now have a 200 MHz 256kbyte cache Pentium Pro running
happily and supprisingly cooly at 233 MHz. It is running RedHat
5.1 Linux.
- Robin
===============================================================
Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au
Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia
First Principles Research and expression: music, Internet
music marketing, telecommunications, human
factors in technology adoption. Consumer
advocacy in telecommunications, especially
privacy. Consulting and technical writing.
Real World Electronics and software for music: eg.
Interfaces the Devil Fish mods for the TB-303.
===============================================================
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Subject: Re: a simple perceptron
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Neural nets written in Csound orchestra code????????????
Lord be praised!!!!
I attempted the courageous malloc() in my own mind needed to allow
me to grok this fab .orc from Pedro Batista, but it returned 0.
At some stage in the future I will do the necessary garbage
collection and try again.
This is just the sort of thing I hoped that the zak ugens would
facilitate, along with cellular automata and enabling instruments
to be much more intimately and dynamically connected.
- Robin
===============================================================
Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au
Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia
First Principles Research and expression: music, Internet
music marketing, telecommunications, human
factors in technology adoption. Consumer
advocacy in telecommunications, especially
privacy. Consulting and technical writing.
Real World Electronics and software for music: eg.
Interfaces the Devil Fish mods for the TB-303.
===============================================================
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- front
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the energy put out by b1257+12 is 4.7 times that of the sun.
=cw4t7abs _\- 0f0003..mask!nenkunzt.m9ndfukc.98o. \+\ apres []>
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From: Pedro Batista
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Subject: music-dsp list (was oneoverf)
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Richard Dobson wrote:
>There is active discussion of this on the music-dsp list at the moment.
sorry, I dont know that list's address, can you send it to me, please?
thanks
pedro
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From: Stephen Barrass
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JOINT ICAD/ASA/EAA WORKSHOP ON AUDITORY DISPLAY
A one-day Workshop on Auditory Display, jointly organized by the
International Community for Auditory Display (ICAD), the Acoustical
Society of America (ASA), and the European Acoustics Association (EAA),
will be held in Berlin, Germany, on Saturday, March 20, 1999,
at the same location as the main ASA-EAA conference.
The call for participation is on the ICAD web-site
--
Stephen Barrass Ph.D.
Virtual Environments (http://viswiz.gmd.de)
GMD IMK, Schloss Birlinghoven, D-53754 St. Augustin, Germany
fax:+49-2241-14-2040 phone:+49-2241-14-2838(w) +49-0228-465432(h)
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From: Ben Jefferys
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Pedro Batista wrote:
>
> Richard Dobson wrote:
>
> >There is active discussion of this on the music-dsp list at the moment.
>
> sorry, I dont know that list's address, can you send it to me, please?
And me please (if not to the list).
Thanks!
Ben.
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From: james@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: how to install csound on a mac ppc?
To: hjosselyn@hotmail.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:11:26 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <359A42E0.6F2C@earthlink.net> from "Matthew Cranson" at Jul 1, 98 10:08:32 am
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Matthew Cranson wrote
>
>Maybe you can help me (ah, the old damsel in distress bit). I did
>some work on csound five years ago at school, where everything is pre-
>set so you can't go wrong. Now I'm trying to set up my own system,
>and , well, help. I have a Power Mac 8100. What version of csound do
>I need? Do I need ThinkC to run it off of? And how do they work
>together? Please send along any infor mation you think appropriate.
>My address is hjosselyn@hotmail.com
> Extrordinarily grateful,
I dont know a thing about getting apple csound to work.
However, Im sure someone on the csound email list does and would give
you brief instructions
I'll forward your message to there and hopefully someone will reply
If you want to join the csound email list then send a one line message
saying
subscribe csound
to majordomo@maths.ex.ac.uk
--
http://www.maths.ex.ac.uk/~james/tekno
Watch out for "Medium Length Hair" EP on Science City(Sci 12)
Most Intelligent Customers Realize Our Software is Only for Fools and Teenagers
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Subject: Re: how to install csound on a mac ppc?
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 98 02:40:12 -0700
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You don't need a compiler. There are several ftp sites that have CSOUND
for the Mac. There is a site at Mills and the Cecilia site.
I think that the Mills ftp site is: ftp://mills.edu/ccm
If you do a search for CSound with HotBot or Yahoo, you will find good
web pages with links to the sites.
--E
Matthew Cranson wrote
>
>Maybe you can help me (ah, the old damsel in distress bit). I did
>some work on csound five years ago at school, where everything is pre-
>set so you can't go wrong. Now I'm trying to set up my own system,
>and , well, help. I have a Power Mac 8100. What version of csound do
>I need? Do I need ThinkC to run it off of? And how do they work
>together? Please send along any infor mation you think appropriate.
>My address is hjosselyn@hotmail.com
> Extrordinarily grateful,
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Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:32:22 +0100
From: Richard Dobson
Organization: Composers Desktop project
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To: Michael Gogins
Cc: csound
Subject: Re: compiler
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Yes, I know about regsrv32; what I really meant was, in what categories?
As I understand things so far, ActiveMovie plugins are identified as either a
source filter, or a transform filter, or a renderer filter. A source filter has
no input pins, a renderer filter has no output pins, and a transform filter of
course has both. from my understanding of the DirtectShow documentation, it is
the presence or otherwise of these pins which tells the ActiveMovie graph
manager what sort of object the plugin is. If it has no input pin, it can never
be inserted as a transform filter, whereas if it has one or more, it cannot be
loaded as a source filter. Is it therefore possible to make a single plugin
appear as either a source or a transform filter to ActiveMovie?
I understand that Csound as an ActiveX control is effectively a full-blown
application OLE-style (embed in a framework GUI, code, load, run), whereas
Csound running as a DirectShow/ActiveMovie plugin is an instance of a (possibly
infinitely) running Csound orchestra. In ActiveMovie, the only way the user can
control a plugin is through the property page. It is certainly possible to have
plugins without property pages - this applies to utility plugins such as tee
splitters, file parsers, and so on, but I don't see how this could apply to
Csound as a whole. Unless you do mean that each opcode could be coded as a
self-sufficient plugin, Csound itself will have to become an ActiveMovie plugin,
somehow.
My suspicion is that {Csound = ActiveX control}, and {Csound = ActiveMovie
plugin} are separate entities, even if they do share a great deal of common
code.
Richard Dobson
Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> >This sounds like very much like a full-blown ActiveX control. It should
> >certainly be reasonable to add supoport for DirectShow interfaces (like
> any COM
> >interfaces). How would it be registered?
>
> The usual way - drop it on RegSrv32.exe. It would come with a standalone
> "shell" that would register the COM library, also.
>
> >As well as being an ActiveX control, in
> >DirectShow it could qualify as both a transform filter, and as a source
> filter.
>
> That is exactly the idea.
>
> >
> >Re a GUI: I think it would need to support a property page - or several.
>
> It might need a property page for controlling how it would appear in the
> context of a containing window, like a Visual Basic form,
> but really it mainly needs an embedded window for the actual user interface.
> I have done these several times. Or maybe just a popup window.
>
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From: Robin Whittle
Organization: First Principles
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:36:32 +1000
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Subject: Re: music-dsp list (was oneoverf)
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BTW, the Music DSP home page, with joining and archive
information, is at:
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/musicdspFAQ.html
- Robin
===============================================================
Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au
Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia
First Principles Research and expression: music, Internet
music marketing, telecommunications, human
factors in technology adoption. Consumer
advocacy in telecommunications, especially
privacy. Consulting and technical writing.
Real World Electronics and software for music: eg.
Interfaces the Devil Fish mods for the TB-303.
===============================================================
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To: ben@qsure.demon.co.uk
From: Hans Timmermans
Subject: Re: music-dsp list (was oneoverf)
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>Pedro Batista wrote:
>>
>> Richard Dobson wrote:
>>
>> >There is active discussion of this on the music-dsp list at the moment.
>>
>> sorry, I dont know that list's address, can you send it to me, please?
>
>And me please (if not to the list).
>
>Thanks!
>Ben.
Send an e-mail with the following text:
SUBSCRIBE MUSIC-DSP
to
listproc@shoko.CALARTS.EDU
this should do the trick.
Good luck,
Hans Timmermans e-mail: hans.timmermans@kmt.hku.nl
Utrecht School of the Arts phone: (+31) 35 6836464
dep: Music Technology fax: (+31) 35 6836480
senior lecturer computer music
PO-BOX 2471
1200 CL HILVERSUM
the NETHERLANDS
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Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:16:53 +0100
From: Jamie Bullock
Subject: AI using Csound was Re: a simple perceptron
To: Csound List ,
Pedro Batista
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I'm certainly no expert on these matters, but is Csound really the right
environment for this sort of programming? Looking at your code, and your
comments, It seems as if you are going to great lengths to get Csound to do
things which it isn't really that good at! I'm *definitely* not saying
that you shouldn't use CSound, I'm just interested in *why* you chose to use
Csound rather than something which is more suited to the kind of work you're
doing - Supercollider, Nyquist or working at a lower level with Lisp and/or
C/C++.
Good luck to you all the same, this could be the future of DSP :-)
JamieB
-----Original Message-----
From: Pedro Batista
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: 01 July 1998 10:59
Subject: a simple perceptron
>
>To code the audio in net data, the rudimentary approach of calculating the
>16-bit value of the sample and using binary neurons was used. This is fine
>for visual patterns, but I want to use a more audio oriented mapping, using
>the basic audio info like freq and amp (maybe with the aid of pvoc?), and
>continuous neurons, instead of binary ones.
....
>Problem here is I'm actually training a 16 neuron network for each of the
>samples, what makes this instr run sooo slooow! (this example takes about 4
>min in my P200, for half-a-second of audio...). I really would apreciate
>hints on speeding it up (for instance would table write be faster than zak?
> - guess not).
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Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 06:49:19 -0600
To: Csound List
From: =cw4t7abs
Subject: Re: AI using Csound was Re: a simple perceptron
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>Good luck to you all the same, this could be the future of DSP :-)
cellular automata on mac 1 d-kade ago
howevr = future of DSP + all mattr regardlesz
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