Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions)

Date	1997-02-14 13:41
From	"Matthew S. Padden" <@pegasus.hud.ac.uk:m.s.padden@hud.ac.uk>
Subject	Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions)
	>From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk >Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 8:02:06 GMT >Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) >To: csound@maths.exeter.ac.uk > >Message written at 13 Feb 1997 22:11:13 +0000 >In-reply-to: > > (message from Bradley James Lindseth on Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:42:49 > -0600 (CST)) > >Larry writes... > >> I'm assuming that very platform >> that CSound is running on has a C++ compiler - if not, I'd be surprised. >> Now watch someone surprise me :-) > >I do love this dry sense of humour. Let me give you some platforms >which do not run C++. >Archimedes; Atari; Orion; my SGI Indigo (the main machine used for >Csound maintenence in Bath); my 386. > >If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I >could go back to astronomy > >Brad Lindseth made some comments about GNU configure. I must be thick >today, but I cannot think what it woudl do for me (or anyone else). >Cpould someone explain? > >==John ff > >-- Matthew S. Padden Computer Music Research Group Music Dept. Huddersfield University Queensgate Huddersfield England HD1 3DH p: +44 1484 422288 x2402 f: +44 1484 472656 e: m.s.padden@hud.ac.uk Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22024; 14 Feb 97 14:16 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05318; 14 Feb 97 14:18 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:17:53 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA15929); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:09:33 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 14:09:21 GMT Received: from www.sdf.se [194.218.219.11] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA15859); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:09:04 GMT Received: from what.sdf.se (simon@what [192.168.1.15]) by www.sdf.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04576 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:08:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from simon@localhost) by what.sdf.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA21872 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:06:15 +0100 (MET) From: Simon Kagedal Message-Id: <199702141406.PAA21872@what.sdf.se> Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:06:15 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199702140803.IAA02840@hermes> from "jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk" at Feb 14, 97 08:02:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME7] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > Larry writes... > > > I'm assuming that very platform > > that CSound is running on has a C++ compiler - if not, I'd be surprised. > > Now watch someone surprise me :-) > > I do love this dry sense of humour. Let me give you some platforms > which do not run C++. > Archimedes; Atari; Orion; my SGI Indigo (the main machine used for > Csound maintenence in Bath); my 386. Well, there is g++ for Atari... But I agree that it's best to keep to C for highest portability. > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > could go back to astronomy > > Brad Lindseth made some comments about GNU configure. I must be thick > today, but I cannot think what it woudl do for me (or anyone else). > Cpould someone explain? It would be easier, at least for us with unx style OS:es, to get csound compiled. You just run "./configure", it figures out stuff about your system and generates the Makefile and possibly some .h file with #defines, and then "make". -- /simon Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22102; 14 Feb 97 14:24 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05458; 14 Feb 97 14:26 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:25:23 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA16451); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:13:07 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 14:12:53 GMT Received: from [206.30.88.4] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA16348); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:12:20 GMT Received: from [206.30.88.80] by milhouse.infohouse.com (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-12482) with ESMTP id AAA75; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:14:22 -0500 X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:14:47 -0500 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: tolve Subject: slightly off-topic plea & introduction Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk for those with charitable souls but little time, the question first: kindly suggest a list, to supplement this one, dedicated to more general electronic music topics including (gasp) commercial software. have been lurking for a couple of months now but have only just this past week scratched the very surface of csound. even so, it has allowed me to realise an interminable dream to attain additive synthesis and thereby work with sound as a painter works with paint: true klangfarbenmelodie -no not i the first to dream. although i have for some time subscribed to keyboard, electronic musician, and macuser, with experience in subtractive and some fm synthesis, i still have not hit upon a plan for creating music completely and most importantly, intuitively* within my computer (ok so i do gather environmental source material on DAT as well), free of outboard equipment. have a PowerComputing Mac clone 604/132/2 gig hd. no experience actually programming a computer and now John C has scared the hell out of me, more-so even than the csound manual (and for this i thank you john), with his litany of frustrations (various csound bugs and followup...). not overly concerned with midi, just want the minimum, perhaps for eventual live performance with alternative controller. think what i want to do is trigger AIFF files with sequencer and record to multitrack. macuser picks EMAGIC Logic Audio, but names Digital Performer 1.7 as most elegant interface. Interface yeah that's what i want. yet attended an Opcode seminar and was certainly impressed with interface as well as quality of pitch-shifting. anyone out there work with one or more of the above? i'm willing to spend another $3000 or so in the next few months. is it best to purchase a card? how can i continue to work with csound and integrate it with sequencer, multitrack recording software, and DAT. and i do want quad. do i need to spend more? but wait! ultimately i would like to turn my attention to creating sound for the web. have information on numerous sound file formats. RealAudio sounds great, but not everyone i work with will provide server it requires. for quality should i stick with AIFF? what about free links for software to playback for end user? oh yeah, sorry... greetings csound! schooled musician, carried a card for over 20 years, performed across the board stylistically, and taught, all with many embarrassments and abject poverty. then, in 1990, as an actor as well, started experimental theatrical company Sicpa with partner Bill Conte. based in spaces large and small, first in Staten Island, then Manhattan. most of our work has been with large ensembles and "developed" productions, although we have worked more improvisationally as well. currently gapping spark plugs for Dante Project: Inferno=81, multimedia, site specific, under our new for-profit moniker TAOHaus=81 (theater artists' omnibus). thanks to all at csound for simply existing. yours, tolve Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22165; 14 Feb 97 14:37 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05784; 14 Feb 97 14:38 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:38:13 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA18949); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:31:57 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 14:31:46 GMT Received: from root@soli.inav.net [199.120.107.103] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA18915); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:31:43 GMT Received: from soli.inav.net (kent@soli.inav.net [199.120.107.103]) by soli.inav.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA21313; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:31:15 -0600 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:31:15 -0600 (CST) From: Kent Williams To: "Matthew S. Padden" <@pegasus.hud.ac.uk:m.s.padden@hud.ac.uk> Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <16707710A43@pegasus.hud.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On 14 Feb 1997, Matthew S. Padden wrote: > > > >I do love this dry sense of humour. Let me give you some platforms > >which do not run C++. > >Archimedes; Atari; Orion; my SGI Indigo (the main machine used for > >Csound maintenence in Bath); my 386. > > > >If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > >could go back to astronomy Well the world does need astronomers, but they might make you program in Forth! C++ is available on any platform that supports Gnu C. Which might NOT mean the Archimedes, Atari or Orion, but definitely your Indigo. > > > >Brad Lindseth made some comments about GNU configure. I must be thick > >today, but I cannot think what it woudl do for me (or anyone else). > >Cpould someone explain? > > Configure is a meta-installation program, albeit one that only works on Unix machines. If you take the time to figure it out (and it is by no means simple) you can make a program that detects the platform you're trying to compile on and set up makefiles. If you ever download and install Gnu C++ or Emacs, you'll find out what it's like. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "i love the smell of new carpet. it makes me dizzy. just like when you fall in love." -- Mike Dvorkin Home Page, featuring Reagan on Black Velvet, the EMP Compilation CD, samples of my music, etc http://soli.inav.net/~kent/ Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3488 (fax) Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22455; 14 Feb 97 15:45 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06839; 14 Feb 97 15:47 GMT Received: from unixg.ubc.ca (actually host mail.unixg.ubc.ca) by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:46:59 +0000 Received: from interchg.ubc.ca (bob@interchg.ubc.ca [137.82.27.42]) by unixg.ubc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06979; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:46:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:46:54 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Pritchard X-Sender: bob@interchg.ubc.ca Reply-To: Bob Pritchard To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk cc: csound@noether.ex.AC.UK Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <199702140803.IAA02840@hermes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: (snip) > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > could go back to astronomy Whoa! Panic, panic, panic! Red alert! Take a few deep breaths, John, and repeat this mantra: "I will not abandon them, I will not abandon them, I will not..." Then, have a lovely single malt, or a double latte, and contemplate the beauty of tight code producing lovely sound. (Far more interesting than forcing changes to Wein's Law just to get that T Tauri to float upwards through your new H-R main sequence.) :-) Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22479; 14 Feb 97 15:56 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07071; 14 Feb 97 15:57 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:57:25 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA27914); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:47:21 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 15:47:05 GMT Received: from mail.unixg.ubc.ca [137.82.27.14] by hermes via ESMTP (PAA27877); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:47:03 GMT Received: from interchg.ubc.ca (bob@interchg.ubc.ca [137.82.27.42]) by unixg.ubc.ca (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06979; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:46:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 07:46:54 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Pritchard X-Sender: bob@interchg.ubc.ca Reply-To: Bob Pritchard To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <199702140803.IAA02840@hermes> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: (snip) > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > could go back to astronomy Whoa! Panic, panic, panic! Red alert! Take a few deep breaths, John, and repeat this mantra: "I will not abandon them, I will not abandon them, I will not..." Then, have a lovely single malt, or a double latte, and contemplate the beauty of tight code producing lovely sound. (Far more interesting than forcing changes to Wein's Law just to get that T Tauri to float upwards through your new H-R main sequence.) :-) Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22486; 14 Feb 97 15:56 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07083; 14 Feb 97 15:58 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:57:50 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA27456); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:42:34 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 15:42:22 GMT Received: from 0@mhub2.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.52] by hermes via SMTP (PAA27396); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:42:07 GMT Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by mhub2.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 97 09:37:38 -0600 Received: from pub-12-c-43.dialup.umn.edu by gold.tc.umn.edu; Fri, 14 Feb 97 09:37:37 -0600 X-Sender: tren0009@gold.tc.umn.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: "Thomas R. Trenka" Subject: Manual....and formats Message-Id: <330486c23547382@mhub2.tc.umn.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 09:37:40 -0600 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Fellow CSounders-- Ok, the discussion has been rather lively, so let me attempt to sum up what has gone on so far.... What we have is quite a diverse number of platforms on which we work. There have been a number of requests and arguements for different formats, such as ASCII, Postcript, RTF, SGML, HTML, PDF, MS Word... Jean Piche has given information about the reconfiguration of the Bath site and the planned manual updates, and Paulo Mouat, as well as myself, have offered to maintain the manual. For what I gather, what is wanted is a manual that is accessable from both hard copy and on-line (meaning from the computer, like a Windows help file), one that is clear and precise, capable of having pages added on instead of complete re- visions, and can handle diagrams. Each format has its strengths and weaknesses, and each strength lends itself well to a particular aspect of the manual... I personally would prefer a manual that is capable of both hard copy and on-line, with diagrams, that I don't have to edit and "clean up" so that it is legible (I've done this already in MS-Word format--if anyone wants it I can post it somewhere, but it doesn't include 3.44 ugens). I originally suggested the PDF format because it handles both hard copy and on-line documentation, and is as WYSWYG as it gets.... Barring personal taste, and working part-time as a graphic layout type dude, I would suggest the following formats--PDF, Postcript, ASCII, and RTF. I believe an HTML version already exists (I seem to remember using it, but don't remember where). Kudos to Jean Piche and John F--I think Jean Piche has the right approach, and heartily suggest replying to his manual poll. I also think that one person maintain- ing all formats is a bit much to ask. How about we decide on which formats to use, and have a collective of three or four of us responsible for maintaining a particular format? Jean could deal with the main compilation, and Paulo could maintain, say, RTF, and I would do the PDF? All formats would be posted to one site, and this way no one person is responsible for all, but not everyone has to deal. This way also, a common presentation format could be developed by the person(s) responsible, and all of us could be happy! Just trying to be practical-- Thomas Trenka tren0009@gold.tc.umn.edu Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22532; 14 Feb 97 16:10 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id ab07485; 14 Feb 97 16:12 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:12:09 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA00014); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:04:56 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 16:04:44 GMT Received: from chico.rediris.es [130.206.1.3] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA29945); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:04:35 GMT Received: from 130.206.29.150 by chico.rediris.es with SMTP id RAA15703; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:04:27 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <33049B1A.11BE@cdmc.es> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:04:26 +0000 From: adolfo nunez Reply-To: isidoro perez Organization: CDMC X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Cc: isidoro.perez@cdmc.es Subject: help about Csound tools&courses Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello everybody: Please, we need to know if is there any small application to translate Csound scores to midi files. We appreciatte very much any ' information about this question. Could you tell us if there are any summer course focused on Csound, please send us where and when. Thank you very much. Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22676; 14 Feb 97 16:52 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07925; 14 Feb 97 16:54 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:53:50 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA03693); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:38:10 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 16:37:59 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA03527); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:36:04 GMT Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-7.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.243]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA23392 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:35:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3304942C.4993@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:34:52 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Csound decimal point precision Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, I'm reposting my question again: is there a way to perform calculations involving more than 3 decimal places or exponential notation in an orchestra file? Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a constant such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . I'm trying to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an insturment. It involves 10^-12. Thanks. Gregory Boduch gb141@columbia.edu Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22685; 14 Feb 97 16:55 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07952; 14 Feb 97 16:56 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:56:21 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA02306); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:24:23 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 16:24:12 GMT Received: from condor.CC.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.103] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA01746); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:19:22 GMT Received: from eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.70]) by condor.CC.UMontreal.CA with ESMTP id KAA02781 (8.6.11/IDA-1.6 for ); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:15:26 -0500 Received: from mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA by eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/5.17) id KAA19072; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:16:13 -0500 Received: from GAP by mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/5.17) id KAA12190; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:16:08 -0500 Message-Id: <33047FB0.41C6@ere.umontreal.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:07:28 -0500 From: Jean Piche X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Manual Poll results References: <199702140803.IAA02840@hermes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Polls are closed. There is enough here to get a good picture: html text ps rtf pdf sgml latex nroff 99 86 39 48 22 14 18 3 62 people voted. points were given as follows 1st choice=3pts, 2nd choice=2pts and 3rd choice=1pt. So what we will probably end up doing is formatting and maintaining the manual in SGML format (!). What we will offer on the site however are manuals in html and text formats. Should there be a desire, we would also put our sgml sources as well, this way anyone can get the format they want. The catch, as I am starting to discover, is that SGML editors are few and expensive. On the other hand, PD converters seem common, at least for Unix. Ok. So we are starting to work on this. This will take a bit of time as I'm sure you understand. We want to take the time now to formulate good templates and scripts so it does not take up too much in the long run. I believe the only documentation we are missing are the Whittle opcodes. Even if they are not in the current 3.45 distribution, we will roll them in. Whenever this is ready for a test drive, we will post an html version on our www server for people to verify, make suggestions and add any information we may have missed. More later. ________________________________________________________ Jean Piche Universite de Montreal http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/Org/CompoElectro/CEC/ Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22815; 14 Feb 97 17:31 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08455; 14 Feb 97 17:33 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:33:01 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA08456); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:27:21 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 17:27:09 GMT Received: from root@big.fishnet.net [205.216.133.3] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA08445); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:27:07 GMT Received: from sinewave (port002.vta.fishnet.net [205.216.133.151]) by big.fishnet.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22093 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:35:21 -0800 Message-Id: <3304A093.43C451EF@rcsreg.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:29:24 -0800 From: Toby X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Csound Mailing List Subject: Drumachine 2.01 available. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Fixed a bug, added a feature: http://www.fishnet.net/~willis/drumachine/drumachine.html Toby -There otta be a law- Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22863; 14 Feb 97 17:45 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08606; 14 Feb 97 17:46 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:46:30 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA09483); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:38:31 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 17:38:20 GMT Received: from relay-7.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.9] by hermes via SMTP (RAA09470); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:38:19 GMT Received: from rwentk.demon.co.uk ([158.152.68.129]) by relay-7.mail.demon.net id aa724863; 14 Feb 97 17:32 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970214173150.006e5188@sdps.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: rwentk@sdps.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:32:08 +0000 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Richard Wentk Subject: Re: Manual formats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Might it not make sense for there to be platform-dependent versions of the manual? I realise platform-independence is a good model when programming, but - speaking as someone who strings words together for a living - it's impractical to demand that printed/electronic text should be as accomodating. That approach leads to a lowest-common-denominator kind of manual, which is readable - barely - on everything, but isn't easy to understand or comprehensive. Some points: 1. All the versions for different platforms include different features. (We may not like it, but that's how it is.) It's sensible, surely, to have manuals that reflect the actual features that someone is working with. 2. Doing it this way will make it easy to use whatever editing and layout features are available on each platform. This is important from a reader's point of view! ASCII may be freely interchangeable, but when you compare plain ASCII to Postscript it's actually pretty damn hard to read. 3. Platform dependent manuals can include appendices of Frequently Asked Questions about problem areas like MIDI input and real time output. These are obviously relevant and useful to some people, but of no interest to anyone using the software on a different machine. It would also be possible to include man pages about the various utilities that are only available on each platform. 4. Full cross-platform conversions of formatted text are hard to do well. It's much easier to maintain incremental editions of the manual. You need to do the conversion once - which is a pain, but has been done on most formats already - but after that you have a resource that can be modified quickly and easily. It's also easier to create a version for one the more obscure formats that are used on each platform, in case anyone asks for one. (Something like Word on the PC will export text in umpteen different formats. I'm sure there are equivalent options on other platforms.) 5. Diagrams. Missing now, but possibly useful in future. Impossible to do with ASCII, but possible on every machine otherwise. There should still be a central administration point for new man pages, and there's no reason why - diagrams aside - these shouldn't be supplied and created in ASCII. The editors for each platform can then work with the people who actually add the new features to a version. They'd only change the relevant part of each manual whenever the new features are made available. Work permitting, I'm happy to do this for the Wintel platform. All it would take would be volunteers for SGI, Next, Mac, Linux (which seems to be a slightly special case) and Unix. R. Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22891; 14 Feb 97 17:47 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id ab08651; 14 Feb 97 17:49 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:49:32 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA10087); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:45:22 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 17:45:12 GMT Received: from ella.mills.edu [144.91.3.20] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA10056); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:44:54 GMT Received: from localhost by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) id JAA17827; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:44:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:44:43 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Berry To: Gregory Boduch Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Csound decimal point precision In-Reply-To: <3304942C.4993@columbia.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk One way to do it is calculate 1/100000000000 in your orchestra. The precision issue is at the translation from text to float, not internally (I think). Very large numbers should work fine. Mike Berry mikeb@mills.edu Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22904; 14 Feb 97 17:49 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08665; 14 Feb 97 17:51 GMT Received: from mercury.acs.unt.edu by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:51:05 +0000 Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (3045@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.1.41]) by mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA24173; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:48:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (mat0001@localhost) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA24403; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:48:48 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:48:48 -0600 (CST) From: Micheal Allen Thompson To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk cc: csound@noether.ex.AC.UK Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <199702140803.IAA02840@hermes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The SGI with GNU has g++.... Michael On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Message written at 13 Feb 1997 22:11:13 +0000 > In-reply-to: > (message from Bradley James Lindseth on Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:42:49 > -0600 (CST)) > > Larry writes... > > > I'm assuming that very platform > > that CSound is running on has a C++ compiler - if not, I'd be surprised. > > Now watch someone surprise me :-) > > I do love this dry sense of humour. Let me give you some platforms > which do not run C++. > Archimedes; Atari; Orion; my SGI Indigo (the main machine used for > Csound maintenence in Bath); my 386. > > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > could go back to astronomy > > Brad Lindseth made some comments about GNU configure. I must be thick > today, but I cannot think what it woudl do for me (or anyone else). > Cpould someone explain? > > ==John ff > Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22923; 14 Feb 97 17:54 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08719; 14 Feb 97 17:56 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:56:08 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA10519); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:50:57 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 17:50:45 GMT Received: from mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.1.1] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA10460); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:50:31 GMT Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (3045@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.1.41]) by mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA24173; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:48:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (mat0001@localhost) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA24403; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:48:48 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:48:48 -0600 (CST) From: Micheal Allen Thompson To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <199702140803.IAA02840@hermes> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The SGI with GNU has g++.... Michael On Fri, 14 Feb 1997 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Message written at 13 Feb 1997 22:11:13 +0000 > In-reply-to: > (message from Bradley James Lindseth on Wed, 12 Feb 1997 22:42:49 > -0600 (CST)) > > Larry writes... > > > I'm assuming that very platform > > that CSound is running on has a C++ compiler - if not, I'd be surprised. > > Now watch someone surprise me :-) > > I do love this dry sense of humour. Let me give you some platforms > which do not run C++. > Archimedes; Atari; Orion; my SGI Indigo (the main machine used for > Csound maintenence in Bath); my 386. > > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > could go back to astronomy > > Brad Lindseth made some comments about GNU configure. I must be thick > today, but I cannot think what it woudl do for me (or anyone else). > Cpould someone explain? > > ==John ff > Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22943; 14 Feb 97 18:00 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08784; 14 Feb 97 18:02 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:02:04 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA10566); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:51:19 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 17:51:05 GMT Received: from ella.mills.edu [144.91.3.20] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA10530); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:51:01 GMT Received: from localhost by ella.mills.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/930416.SGI) id JAA18257; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:51:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 09:50:58 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Berry To: Richard Wentk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Manual formats In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970214173150.006e5188@sdps.demon.co.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I assume that we will keep issuing a Mac online manual in DOCMaker format with our Mac releases, because it works with csRef, among other things. I'm all in favor of a single place I can go to get the current cononical manual information, to which I will add the Mac specific doc that we have. And it seems that Jean Piche is doing this, so great. Mike Berry mikeb@mills.edu Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23054; 14 Feb 97 18:33 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08969; 14 Feb 97 18:35 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:35:20 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA12787); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:26:23 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 18:26:12 GMT Received: from condor.CC.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.103] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA12760); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 18:26:05 GMT Received: from eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.70]) by condor.CC.UMontreal.CA with ESMTP id MAA11580 (8.6.11/IDA-1.6); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:29:59 -0500 Received: from mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA by eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/5.17) id MAA21461; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:30:47 -0500 Received: from GAP by mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/5.17) id MAA27159; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:30:40 -0500 Message-Id: <33049F38.2781@ere.umontreal.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:22:00 -0500 From: Jean Piche X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0SC-SGI (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: "Thomas R. Trenka" Cc: csound Subject: FINAL VOTE (Manual) References: <330486c23547382@mhub2.tc.umn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk ok. Time to move. This is what we want: 1- One single reference master document. 2- Very easy or automated generation of revisions. 3- Limited access to reference master document. 4- Very easy or automated generation of multi-platform formats. 5- Multi-platform formats should be printable as well as on-line browsable. 6- General site-access to all multi-platform formats. This is the reality: 1- This is a very big job. 2- There is only one good way to do centralized documentation: SGML 3- SGML is expensive, but this is of concern to master document maintainers only. 4- Graphics are time-consuming to make and maintain. 5- People desire central authority but not really... (!) 6- Document design is very much taste driven. 7- We dont want to waste time discussing this past a reasonable point. This is the proposal: 1- A net committee consisting of the following persons will be formed: Thomas Trenka, Paulo Mouat, Jean Piche, Mathieu Bezkorowajny Alexandre Burton and John Fitch. (I am volunteering John here since he will want want to be kept informed in detail.) 2- We will research SGML document preparation in the next week. 3- This discussion will be taken off the list. 4- The committee will report to the list as the work progresses. ---------------FINAL VOTE----------------- I have my little vote compiler here so we'll use it again. Send a message to pichej@ere.umontreal.ca with the subject : Put one word in the body of the message: YES if you agree with the proposal, NO if you dont. Don't post to the list please. Resultsof the ballot will be posted to the list in the next few days, or as soon as 60 people have voted. PLEASE DONT PUT ANYTHING ELSE IN YOUR MESSAGE (NO SIGNATURES!!!!) Cheers! -- ________________________________________________________ Jean Piche Universite de Montreal http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/Org/CompoElectro/CEC/ Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23366; 14 Feb 97 19:23 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09215; 14 Feb 97 19:24 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:24:16 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA15524); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:18:51 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 19:18:41 GMT Received: from pp@goggins.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.13] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA15514); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:18:40 GMT From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Message-Id: <199702141918.TAA15514@hermes> Received: from maths.Bath.AC.UK (actually host omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk) by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 19:18:29 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 19:16:29 GMT Subject: Re: Decimal precision To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 14 Feb 1997 10:51:23 +0000 --- Copy of mail to gb141@columbia.edu --- In-reply-to: <3303B704.7BC4@columbia.edu> (message from Gregory Boduch on Thu, 13 Feb 1997 19:51:16 -0500) Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong. ==John ff Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a constant Gregory> such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . I'm trying Gregory> to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an insturment. It Gregory> involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform calculations involving more Gregory> than 3 decimal places or exponential notation in Csound orchestra file? Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23444; 14 Feb 97 20:02 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09402; 14 Feb 97 20:04 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:03:20 +0000 Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.248]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA20070; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:03:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3304C47D.5B81@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:03:07 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@noether.ex.AC.UK Subject: Re: Decimal precision References: <199702141918.OAA08127@mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had > removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i > woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong. I'm using Winsound Xv3.42/Csound 30.42 : ------- test.orc ----------------------------------------------------- sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 2 instr 1 iex1 = 0.00000000001 iex2 ipow 10, -12 print iex1 print iex2 endin ------- outputs ------------------------------------------------------- . . . instr 1: iex1 = 0.000 instr 1: iex2 = 0.000 . . . The sones-to-dB conversion formula needs 10^-12. Thanks Gregory Boduch gb141@columbia.edu Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a Gregory> constant such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . Gregory> I'm trying to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an Gregory> insturment. It involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform Gregory> calculations involving more 3 decimal places or exponential Gregory> notation in Csound orchestra file? Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23455; 14 Feb 97 20:07 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09415; 14 Feb 97 20:08 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:08:42 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA17352); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:03:30 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 20:03:20 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA17344); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:03:19 GMT Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.248]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA20070; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:03:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3304C47D.5B81@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:03:07 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Decimal precision References: <199702141918.OAA08127@mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had > removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i > woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong. I'm using Winsound Xv3.42/Csound 30.42 : ------- test.orc ----------------------------------------------------- sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 2 instr 1 iex1 = 0.00000000001 iex2 ipow 10, -12 print iex1 print iex2 endin ------- outputs ------------------------------------------------------- Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23485; 14 Feb 97 20:17 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09441; 14 Feb 97 20:19 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:19:13 +0000 Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.248]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23954; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:19:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3304C8B7.104@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:19:04 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@noether.ex.AC.UK Subject: Csound decimal precision Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had > removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i > woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong. I'm using Winsound Xv3.42/Csound 30.42 : test.orc: sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 2 instr 1 iex1 = 0.00000000001 iex2 ipow 10, -12 print iex1 print iex2 endin outputs: . . . instr 1: iex1 = 0.000 instr 1: iex2 = 0.000 . . . The sones-to-dB conversion formula needs 10^-12. Thanks Gregory Boduch gb141@columbia.edu Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a Gregory> constant such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . Gregory> I'm trying to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an Gregory> insturment. It involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform Gregory> calculations involving more 3 decimal places or exponential Gregory> notation in Csound orchestra file? Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23496; 14 Feb 97 20:22 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09458; 14 Feb 97 20:24 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:24:08 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA18054); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:19:28 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 20:19:14 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA18039); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:19:13 GMT Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.248]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA23954; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:19:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3304C8B7.104@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:19:04 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Csound decimal precision Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had > removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i > woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong. I'm using Winsound Xv3.42/Csound 30.42 : test.orc: sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 2 instr 1 iex1 = 0.00000000001 iex2 ipow 10, -12 print iex1 print iex2 endin outputs: Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23502; 14 Feb 97 20:25 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09463; 14 Feb 97 20:27 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:27:01 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA18239); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:21:14 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 20:20:57 GMT Received: from mail1.themall.net [204.80.99.30] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA18182); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:20:35 GMT Received: from default (Cust96.Max31.Atlanta.GA.MS.UU.NET [153.35.56.96]) by mail.themall.net (8.8.5/8.8.2/IIAM 1.0 (DCH)) with ESMTP id MAA17377 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 12:13:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199702142013.MAA17377@mail.themall.net> From: John C To: CSound mailing list Subject: How are overlapping notes handled? Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:11:30 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1160 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I feel like I'm monopolizing this mailing list of late, but it's all of your own fault for providing me with such useful advice when I post! I am now rendering high quality MIDI, and I think the process is stable. Perhaps someone out there has a solution to my latest little "buglet". I don't suppose that this is a bug in Csound, but when I played back my rendered samples when I got my routine working, some of the drums would cut off unexpectedly. I quickly traced this problem down to a situation where one note was overlapping another so that the first ended shortly after the second one began. I had set all of the note durations in my input MIDI file to ten beats, well longer than any of my drum samples. I did this because setting all of my drum note durations real short resulted in short, clipped-off sounds. All I want is to have a sample play back completely, and then stop when that percussion instrument is sounded. I assumed that Csound might keep calling my .orc routine for as long as the sample lasted, since it was non-looped, and I would have the choice of letting the ringing of the last note add to the sounding of the next overlapping note (not really objectionable for drums), or setting up some kind of global variable scheme which would let a decaying note sense when a new note had started. I had previously written a routine in Cakewalk Application Language which shortened or deleted any note which overlapped the succeeding note. I finally remembered how to get it to run (by selecting notes the right way), but it takes a little while to run, and requires an extra step. I noticed that there's an "ihold" opcode for .orc files, and thought it might allow a note to keep ringing and not interfere with the next identical note later in time. Adding this instruction to my instrument definition still resulted in notes which were chopped off short when the previous, overlapping note terminated. Is this one of those "works as designed", or is this a bug? Has anyone out of all you Csound hackers come up with a way to change this behavior? It really doesn't affect the quality of the sound much at all, but I do have to run it through that CAL script, which I am now revamping to work on all keys. In processing envelopes, I think it's a good idea to let the programmer have the raw sample data coming through, and let him/her process it in whatever way they see fit. Just asking an unimportant, wordy question, Jackee Criswell TheSilverSurfer@themall.net Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23508; 14 Feb 97 20:27 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09480; 14 Feb 97 20:28 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:28:30 +0000 Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.248]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26213; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:28:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3304CAE6.1018@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:28:22 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@noether.ex.AC.UK Subject: Csound decimal precision Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<<< Sorry, for repeating. The second half of my last message has been cut off twice!? >>>>> (cntd.) outputs: instr 1: iex1 = 0.000 instr 1: iex2 = 0.000 The sones-to-dB conversion formula needs 10^-12. Thanks Gregory Boduch gb141@columbia.edu Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a Gregory> constant such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . Gregory> I'm trying to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an Gregory> insturment. It involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform Gregory> calculations involving more 3 decimal places or exponential Gregory> notation in Csound orchestra file? Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23527; 14 Feb 97 20:31 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09500; 14 Feb 97 20:33 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:33:19 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA18583); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:28:41 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 20:28:31 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA18566); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:28:30 GMT Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-11-12.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.248]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26213; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:28:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3304CAE6.1018@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 15:28:22 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Csound decimal precision Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk <<<< Sorry, for repeating. The second half of my last message has been cut off twice!? >>>>> (cntd.) outputs: instr 1: iex1 = 0.000 instr 1: iex2 = 0.000 The sones-to-dB conversion formula needs 10^-12. Thanks Gregory Boduch gb141@columbia.edu Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a Gregory> constant such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . Gregory> I'm trying to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an Gregory> insturment. It involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform Gregory> calculations involving more 3 decimal places or exponential Gregory> notation in Csound orchestra file? Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23589; 14 Feb 97 21:06 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09588; 14 Feb 97 21:07 GMT Received: from ping1.ping.be by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:07:29 +0000 Received: from hyperion.ping.be (dialup65.brussels2.eunet.be [193.74.192.65]) by ping1.ping.be (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01858; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:06:55 +0100 (GMT+0100) Message-Id: <199702142106.WAA01858@ping1.ping.be> From: Marc Resibois To: Bob Pritchard , jpff Cc: csound Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:04:19 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : : (snip) : > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I : > could go back to astronomy : : Whoa! Panic, panic, panic! Red alert! My 0.02$ : I would defy anyone that has looked to the code and tried to do something with it to think more than five minutesabout moving it to C++... I surely wouldn't. Cheers, Marc. Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23610; 14 Feb 97 21:08 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09598; 14 Feb 97 21:10 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:10:05 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA19972); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:07:41 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 21:07:31 GMT Received: from ping1.ping.be [193.74.114.1] by hermes via ESMTP (VAA19965); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:07:30 GMT Received: from hyperion.ping.be (dialup65.brussels2.eunet.be [193.74.192.65]) by ping1.ping.be (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01858; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:06:55 +0100 (GMT+0100) Message-Id: <199702142106.WAA01858@ping1.ping.be> From: Marc Resibois To: Bob Pritchard , jpff Cc: csound Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:04:19 -0000 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk : : (snip) : > If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I : > could go back to astronomy : : Whoa! Panic, panic, panic! Red alert! My 0.02$ : I would defy anyone that has looked to the code and tried to do something with it to think more than five minutesabout moving it to C++... I surely wouldn't. Cheers, Marc. Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23644; 14 Feb 97 21:30 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09641; 14 Feb 97 21:32 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:31:13 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA20671); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:27:20 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 21:27:09 GMT Received: from mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.35.143] by hermes via ESMTP (VAA20659); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:27:05 GMT Received: from dogma.columbia.edu (dialup-9-6.cc.columbia.edu [128.59.36.210]) by mailrelay1.cc.columbia.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09041 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:27:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3304D8A5.3B34@columbia.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:27:02 -0500 From: Gregory Boduch Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu Organization: columbia.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Csound decimal precision Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Yes, it looks like that's the problem. I'm getting the right results now. Thank you Eli Brandt, Mike Berry, and John ff. Gregory Boduch gb141@columbia.edu Eli Brandt wrote: > Without looking at the csound source, this looks like the print opcode > is chopping the output to three decimal places (using printf("%.3f") > rather than "%g", I bet). If you print iex2ipow(10, 12), it might > turn out that Csound has the right value internally and just isn't > printing all of it. Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23902; 14 Feb 97 22:24 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09815; 14 Feb 97 22:26 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:26:39 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA23048); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:22:41 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 22:22:31 GMT Received: from pp@goggins.bath.ac.uk [138.38.32.13] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA23039); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:22:31 GMT From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Message-Id: <199702142222.WAA23039@hermes> Received: from maths.Bath.AC.UK (actually host omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk) by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:21:33 +0000 Date: Fri, 14 Feb 97 22:19:36 GMT Subject: Re: help about Csound tools&courses To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 14 Feb 1997 22:07:21 +0000 --- Copy of mail to isidoro.perez@cdmc.es --- In-reply-to: <33049B1A.11BE@cdmc.es> (message from adolfo nunez on Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:04:26 +0000) I have not heard of a Csound score to MIDI file translator. It would be impossible in the general case as teh pitch resolution is different, and apriori one does not know what the P-fields mean. I suppose if one restricted the thing sufficiently it should not be _very_ hard. ==John ff Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23958; 14 Feb 97 22:52 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09891; 14 Feb 97 22:54 GMT Received: from westnet.com by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:54:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (lt@localhost) by westnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02140; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:53:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:53:36 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence Troxler To: Marc Resibois cc: Bob Pritchard , jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, csound@noether.ex.AC.UK Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <199702142106.WAA01858@ping1.ping.be> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, Marc Resibois wrote: > > My 0.02$ : > > I would defy anyone that has looked to the code and tried to do something > with it to think more than five minutesabout moving it to C++... I surely > wouldn't. > > Yes, after cleaning things up a bit last night, it began to look that way. When I mentioned C++, I hadn't yet realized that the Makefile (at least for Linux) was set up not to emit most warnings, including the ones about missing prototypes. gcc gives quite a different picture now :-). But there still seems to be things that can be cleaned up. For examples, many functions are not even declared, and many of the prototypes are right in the calling functions, rather than being in a header having the same name as the c file. Larry -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23968; 14 Feb 97 22:54 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09902; 14 Feb 97 22:56 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:56:35 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA24088); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:54:17 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 22:54:06 GMT Received: from lt@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA24085); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:54:05 GMT Received: from localhost (lt@localhost) by westnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02140; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:53:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:53:36 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence Troxler To: Marc Resibois Cc: Bob Pritchard , jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <199702142106.WAA01858@ping1.ping.be> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, Marc Resibois wrote: > > My 0.02$ : > > I would defy anyone that has looked to the code and tried to do something > with it to think more than five minutesabout moving it to C++... I surely > wouldn't. > > Yes, after cleaning things up a bit last night, it began to look that way. When I mentioned C++, I hadn't yet realized that the Makefile (at least for Linux) was set up not to emit most warnings, including the ones about missing prototypes. gcc gives quite a different picture now :-). But there still seems to be things that can be cleaned up. For examples, many functions are not even declared, and many of the prototypes are right in the calling functions, rather than being in a header having the same name as the c file. Larry -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24001; 14 Feb 97 23:09 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09939; 14 Feb 97 23:11 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:10:43 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA24638); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:06:58 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 97 23:06:48 GMT Received: from venus.twu.edu [192.135.186.1] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA24635); Fri, 14 Feb 1997 23:06:47 GMT From: F_DALPORTO@venus.twu.edu Received: from VENUS.TWU.EDU by VENUS.TWU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-5 #19255) id <01IFEWEATDWG002WWP@VENUS.TWU.EDU> for csound@maths.exeter.ac.uk; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:05:09 CST Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:05:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: Csound to MIDI Conversion Utility To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: <01IFEWEATGQA002WWP@VENUS.TWU.EDU> X-Vms-To: MX%"csound@maths.exeter.ac.uk" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >I have not heard of a Csound score to MIDI file translator. It would >be impossible in the general case as teh pitch resolution is >different, and apriori one does not know what the P-fields mean. > >I suppose if one restricted the thing sufficiently it should not be >_very_ hard. > >==John ff There is a Csound to MIDI file conversion utility (and vice versa) available at: ftp://indigo.pac.utexas.edu/pub/midi/ Mark Dal Porto f_dalporto@twu.edu Denton, Texas USA Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24242; 15 Feb 97 1:29 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10271; 15 Feb 97 1:31 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:31:01 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA28317); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:27:37 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:27:27 GMT Received: from root@lix.intercom.es [194.179.21.2] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA28311); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:27:19 GMT Received: from [195.76.154.99] (iv90_mad.intercom.es [195.76.154.99]) by lix.intercom.es (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA00084 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:26:34 +0100 X-Sender: javiruiz@lix.intercom.es (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:27:34 +0100 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Javier Ruiz Subject: Boulanger article Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >My vote's in for ASCII and HTML, I can read both in Linux. Does anyone >know of a reader for RTF that works under Linux ? I'd like to read the >article Dr Boulanger sent recently... Excuse me, Dave, what article are you talking about and where can I find it? Many thanks. Javier Ruiz C/Las Americas, 4, bajo. 38205 Santa Cruz de Tenerife CANARY ISLANDS-SPAIN phone: 34 22 25 35 14 e-mail: javiruiz@lix.intercom.es Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24254; 15 Feb 97 1:33 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10282; 15 Feb 97 1:35 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:35:37 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA28458); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:30:31 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:30:19 GMT Received: from lt@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA28439); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:30:17 GMT Received: from localhost (lt@localhost) by westnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10132 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:30:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:30:18 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence Troxler To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Those new-fangled C constructs that the kids are using these days Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Wow! I really shouldn't have even thought of C++ without spending some time actually looking through this stuff. My mistake. Sorry if I gave anyone a stroke. Some of you old folk might not be aware that there's this new experimental construct in C, called "enum". And, I've heard some rumors that some of the recent compilers are supporting symbol names greater than eight characters! Well, I guess maybe CSound is like an old rocking chair that has stains from spilled drinks, and has been scratched apart by the cat. Sure, it' s not new, and isn't motorized (you have to do the rocking yourself), but you're afraid to replace it because it's comfortable and it works. I can understand that. I think... Maybe... I'm half kidding, of course. But then again, I wonder why it hasn't been rewritten more than it has. Are people really that afraid of breaking it? -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24261; 15 Feb 97 1:37 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10287; 15 Feb 97 1:39 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:39:15 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA28677); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:36:32 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:36:18 GMT Received: from server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net [203.108.7.41] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA28669); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:36:16 GMT Received: from oznet02.ozemail.com.au (oznet02.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.124]) by server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA11835; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:36:13 +1100 (EST) Received: from dialup01.interdomain.net.au (dialup01.interdomain.net.au [203.17.167.131]) by oznet02.ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA10175; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:35:13 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199702150135.MAA10175@oznet02.ozemail.com.au> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Robin Whittle To: Csound Mailing List Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:32:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Tone wheel organ with rotating speaker instrument Cc: Hans Mikelson Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hans mentioned rotating speakers and his need to create multiple instruments to write to individual global variables. My "zak" ugens enable you to read and write to a single global array of k rate variables and to another similar array of a rate variables. There is just one array of each kind, with a single index in to it, but it can be as long as you like and you use i or k rate variables to decide where to read and write. This enables you to use one instrument, which figures out itself (typically from its parameters it gets from the .orc file) where to write its output. There are also zak ugens for mixing (adding) to a variable in the array. I haven't tried your .orc and .sco file yet, but one of the big things about Leslie speakers is that the beams of sounds they create are heard not just directly by the listener, but as a series of reflections from the walls and other objects in the room. So the use of variable length delays would be good too - to give the doppler effect as the beam scans along the wall and different delays result. Thinking about it again, such variable delays do not seem strictly likely, but I am sure they happen. - Robin . Robin Whittle . . http://www.ozemail.com.au/~firstpr firstpr@ozemail.com.au . . 11 Miller St. Heidelberg Heights 3081 Melbourne Australia . . Ph +61-3-9459-2889 Fax +61-3-9458-1736 . . Consumer advocacy in telecommunications, especially privacy . . . . First Principles - Research and expression - music, . . music industry, telecommunications . . human factors in technology adoption. . . . Real World Interfaces - Hardware and software, especially . . for music . Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24270; 15 Feb 97 1:38 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10292; 15 Feb 97 1:40 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:40:34 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA28673); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:36:29 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 01:36:13 GMT Received: from server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net [203.108.7.41] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA28665); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:36:10 GMT Received: from oznet02.ozemail.com.au (oznet02.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.124]) by server3.syd.mail.ozemail.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA11828 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:36:10 +1100 (EST) Received: from dialup01.interdomain.net.au (dialup01.interdomain.net.au [203.17.167.131]) by oznet02.ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA10212 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:35:22 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199702150135.MAA10212@oznet02.ozemail.com.au> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Robin Whittle To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:32:07 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Manual.... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Regarding Csound manual formats: I don't know what SGML is, but if it was chosen by the Linux crew, and it can be converted into various things including HTML, then it sounds worth looking into. I am a stickler for typography and layout. I really like Microsoft Word. I see the electronic form of the manual as important, but what it looks like on paper is the most important thing for me. Of course it should look that way on screen too. Being able to put page breaks where you want, have headings, tabs, fixed width fonts (though how do you do tabs properly with courier) and various typefaces is fantastic. Word can be converted to PDF if you buy the program, which I haven't. Of course it can be converted to Postscript. Both conversions make assumptions about page size for printing. Carefully laid out Word files also make assumptions about page size. A problem is that one or two countries are A4-challenged and stick with smaller "Letter" size paper. HTML has its problems, like not being able to easily do propotional space text that looks like this: Indented heading Text, text, text, text to a fixed margin text, text etc etc etc etc to that margin However, HTML has a lot* to be said for it. Plain ASCII is an non-starter as far as I am concerned for a serious manual. You need diagrams, bold-face, headings, italics, different fonts etc. If everyone had a Word viewer, or Word could translate its output to HTML, with all formatting intact then I would vote for that, but HTML can't do all the formatting. I don't think you can even force page-breaks. Unless SGML has important advantages, and can be written by most potential Csound authors, then I vote for people creating HTML by whatever means they like, following a generally agreed formatting, and submitting their file to an online manual maintainer to put it in a particular location in a WWW site. Ideally the manual would have just a lot of reasonable sized (2 to 50 k ?) files, all in one directory, but as the thing grows, there will probably need to be sub-directories. We probably need to use long file names for the HTML files, not just MSDOS 8.3 style names. This way there could be a single WWW site with the "Official Csound Manual" consisting of: HTML files (maybe produced from SGML?) ASCII text files including example .orc, .sco and .C files. .GIF and .JPG files for graphics. There could even be short audio files could be there too. Then Net connected users can read and print at will. In the long term future most of us will be permanently net-connected. There should also be Gzip format .zip versions of the manual available. They can be unzipped on any platform Csound is likely to run on (I think). This means people can download the entire manual as a single .zip file and unzip it, sub-directories and all, on their own machine. If graphics, .orc, .sco and audio files become bulky, then there could be two or more versions of the .zip files - with and without these file types. I understand that my ugens will be incorporated into a forthcoming "official" Csound version from John Fitch. The documentation for them is in various ASCII files in the .zip file at my Web site. If there is a single, unified Csound manual approach, I would be very happy to rewrite these to the required format (in terms of layout, style, method of explaining the op-code etc.) in the require file type - which I imagine will be HTML with graphics as required. - Robin . Robin Whittle . . http://www.ozemail.com.au/~firstpr firstpr@ozemail.com.au . . 11 Miller St. Heidelberg Heights 3081 Melbourne Australia . . Ph +61-3-9459-2889 Fax +61-3-9458-1736 . . Consumer advocacy in telecommunications, especially privacy . . . . First Principles - Research and expression - music, . . music industry, telecommunications . . human factors in technology adoption. . . . Real World Interfaces - Hardware and software, especially . . for music . Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24303; 15 Feb 97 2:03 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10335; 15 Feb 97 2:05 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:04:55 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA29244); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:01:45 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 02:01:35 GMT Received: from lt@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA29241); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:01:34 GMT Received: from localhost (lt@localhost) by westnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA11872; Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:01:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:01:36 -0500 (EST) From: Lawrence Troxler To: Robin Whittle Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Manual.... In-Reply-To: <199702150135.MAA10212@oznet02.ozemail.com.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Robin Whittle wrote: > I really like Microsoft > Word. I see the electronic form of the manual as important, but what > it looks like on paper is the most important thing for me. Of course > it should look that way on screen too. > You really like Microsoft Word??? Great, then I'll pay you to do my customer manuals at my day job, which are required to be in "Word". I hate the thing. I hate it because it isn't a markup language. If I want something to be heading level 1, I want to be able to type, " Chapter 1 - How to pick your nose<~H1>", or something similar. This way I can write something in C, or Perl, or whatever, to automate things. > Plain ASCII is an non-starter as far as I am concerned for a serious > manual. You need diagrams, bold-face, headings, italics, different > fonts etc. > Why do you need diagrams, bold-face, headings, italics, different fonts, etc? Diagrams, ok, I can see the point. But the rest of that stuff, I just don't see it. I do just fine with something I can grep, thank you anyway. > I understand that my ugens will be incorporated into a forthcoming > "official" Csound version from John Fitch. The documentation for > them is in various ASCII files in the .zip file at my Web site. > Good. I hope so - I could use'em. (And see, you probably thought I'd be disagreeing with you on everything!) Larry -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24488; 15 Feb 97 2:28 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10463; 15 Feb 97 2:30 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:29:20 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA29865); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:26:55 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 02:26:45 GMT Received: from relay-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.137] by hermes via SMTP (CAA29856); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:26:44 GMT Received: from rwentk.demon.co.uk ([158.152.68.129]) by relay-11.mail.demon.net id aa1123140; 15 Feb 97 2:22 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970215021739.0068a3b4@sdps.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: rwentk@sdps.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 02:22:08 +0000 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Richard Wentk Subject: Re: Manual formats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk At 22:19 14/02/97 GMT, you wrote: >Message written at 14 Feb 1997 21:46:22 +0000 >In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19970214173150.006e5188@sdps.demon.co.uk> (message from > Richard Wentk on Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:32:08 +0000) > >I really do not agree with... > >2. Doing it this way will make it easy to use whatever editing and layout >features are available on each platform. This is important from a reader's >point of view! ASCII may be freely interchangeable, but when you compare >plain ASCII to Postscript it's actually pretty damn hard to read. > >ASCII is readable and clear while Postscript is fuzzy, one cannot see >enough of it, and while OK for a quick glance, cannot be read as a >document. I see a number of theses as postscript, and they are next >to useless. True if you're working onscreen. Not true if you're browsing through a printed reference. My guess is beginners tend to do the latter, experts tend to do the former. Print gives an introductory overview which electronic media don't. Once you have the overview, then having onscreen notes about specific details becomes useful. Print also has the advantage of not requiring a huge screen resolution. Not everyone has a monster monitor where you can hide things away in a corner and still have a useful working area. (Besides, you can read print in the kitchen when you're boiling the kettle and thinking.) For print, layout matters a lot. My ASCII printout of the manual was next to useless until I got hold of the Postscript copy - I could never find a damn thing in it when I wanted to. *BUT* - perhaps I should remind everyone that the point I was making was about using whatever display/editing tools work best on each platform to get the most readable and accessible result, and not the virtues and vices of Postscript. (Not an issue I have any particular feelings about.) I still maintain that working with a raw-ASCII distribution of updates, tidied up and made more legible with whatever editing tools work best on each platform, is a good idea. And indeed that it's a better idea than a one-size-fits-all solution which is inevitably going to sell some people short. E.g so far as I know us non-Unix PC users have no access to SGML, in any shape or form. Doing an SGML manual is therefore a waste of time as far as we're concerned. I'm sure the same applies to other options on other formats. The bottom line - all generic formats have serious disadvantages. Raw ASCII edited to best effect and then distributed for each machine doesn't. In fact it has important advantages, which won't ever be possible with a generic solution. R. Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24788; 15 Feb 97 4:37 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11176; 15 Feb 97 4:39 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:39:12 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA02586); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:32:38 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 04:32:28 GMT Received: from tpone.telepac.pt [194.65.3.20] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA02571); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:32:27 GMT Received: from mail.telepac.pt (netpac.telepac.pt [194.65.3.35]) by tpone.telepac.pt (8.6.12/1.0) with ESMTP id EAA29995 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:30:53 GMT Received: from mouat (cai1_p16.telepac.pt [194.65.11.194]) by mail.telepac.pt (8.8.4/0.0) with SMTP id EAA20474 for ; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:30:48 GMT Message-Id: <33052C95.4C7D@mail.telepac.pt> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 04:25:09 +0100 From: Paulo Mouat X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Manual and vote results References: <199702150135.MAA10212@oznet02.ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Ok, so it seems HTML and ASCII are the winners. Nevertheless I think the so-called committee should be platform-aware and provide optimal formats for each platform. And moreover, other formats should be available, particularly PostScipt or DVI, to account for the printed version. The former can be easily generated out of the latter, and there are free viewers available on the net for both, which means ability to read them in electronic form. I think DVI may be the only format truly portable, besides pure ASCII. > I am a stickler for typography and layout. I really like Microsoft > Word. I see the electronic form of the manual as important, but what > it looks like on paper is the most important thing for me. Of course > it should look that way on screen too. No better thing than TeX/LaTeX and their DVI output. True typographical rigour. Word is messy in text/line weight and equilibrium. And TTF's are very much too liberal. Best! -- __\|__ ___\_/___ ___ Paulo Mouat, \|___\| mouat@mail.telepac.pt \|___\| Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa25139; 15 Feb 97 8:17 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11345; 15 Feb 97 8:19 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:19:05 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA06480); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:13:38 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 08:13:28 GMT Received: from filoli.com [204.162.0.10] by hermes via ESMTP (IAA06477); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 08:13:27 GMT Received: from sunspot.filoli.com (root@sunspot.filoli.com [204.162.1.17]) by filoli.filoli.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA00688; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:12:57 -0800 Received: from ibaker.filoli.com (ibaker.filoli.com [172.16.8.2]) by sunspot.filoli.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA00386; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 00:12:56 -0800 Received: by ibaker.filoli.com (NX5.67f2/NX3.0S) id AA00541; Sat, 15 Feb 97 00:15:09 -0800 Message-Id: <9702150815.AA00541@ibaker.filoli.com> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: <199702142106.WAA01858@ping1.ping.be> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Original-Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) PP-warning: Illegal Received field on preceding line From: Charles Baker Date: Sat, 15 Feb 97 00:15:09 -0800 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) Cc: Marc Resibois References: <199702142106.WAA01858@ping1.ping.be> Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >I would defy anyone that has looked to the code and tried to do something >with it to think more than five minutesabout moving it to C++... I surely >wouldn't. I agree, Marc: the Csound code is clearly C code, not C++ in conception or implementation. If someone wants to use an object-oriented language (my cynic says that for most people, "object-oriented" should read: "sexy/new") for synthesis, they would do a lot better to look at: 1) D. Jaffe's/J.O.Smith's MusicKit for NeXT. (In an unjustly forgotten language: Objective-C, which, by the way pre-dates C++, I've been told. I think it's forgotten because the syntax was based on Smalltalk (YEAH!), not on trying to look like C: I think C++ was written so old C programmers could say "oh, yeah, I can write that Object stuff: see here's my C++ code..." 'Nuff said...) 2) Kyma - Smalltalk, 'da grandaddy of O-O languages! :-) I wish I could afford a Kyma system RIGHT NOW!! (maybe later, Kurt/Carla...). 3) Stephen Pope's MODE (again, Smalltalk). 4) Perry Cook's C++ synth toolkit: This one should pick up admirers: it's clearly object-oriented in structure/approach, and is simple, looks easy to extend. Don't fantasize about a Csound re-write that will not happen: I think the extensions to Csound that are already going into place (as far as I know) are the correct direction for Csound: Inclusion of more/better opcodes, DSP assembly implementations, but not a complete re-write of the program's A.P.I., fer cryin' out loud! Well, just my thoughts...I'm sure there are those who would rather I keep them to myself... but, hey, what's the internet for, after all? Take Care, my csound companions. And happy synthesising! CharlieB baker@charlieb.com http://www.charlieb.com Received: from stork2.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa25205; 15 Feb 97 9:07 GMT Received: from goggins.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11410; 15 Feb 97 9:09 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by goggins.bath.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:09:41 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA07353); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:06:42 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by noether.maths.exeter.ac.uk; Sat, 15 Feb 97 09:06:31 GMT Received: from mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.1.1] by hermes via ESMTP (JAA07350); Sat, 15 Feb 1997 09:06:30 GMT Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (3045@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.1.41]) by mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id DAA02276; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:06:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (mat0001@localhost) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id DAA11037; Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:06:18 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 03:06:17 -0600 (CST) From: Micheal Allen Thompson To: Charles Baker Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, Marc Resibois Subject: Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions) In-Reply-To: <9702150815.AA00541@ibaker.filoli.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk IF the Mac NeXT thing works (I will not hold me breath though) Objective C should be back again.... Michael On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Charles Baker wrote: > > >I would defy anyone that has looked to the code and tried to do > something > >with it to think more than five minutesabout moving it to C++... I > surely > >wouldn't. > > > I agree, Marc: the Csound code is clearly C code, not C++ in > conception or > implementation. If someone wants to use an object-oriented language > (my cynic says that for most people, "object-oriented" should read: > "sexy/new") for synthesis, they would do a lot better to look at: > > 1) D. Jaffe's/J.O.Smith's MusicKit for NeXT. (In an unjustly > forgotten language: Objective-C, which, by the way pre-dates C++, > I've been told. I think it's forgotten because the syntax was based > on Smalltalk (YEAH!), not on trying to look like C: I think C++ was > written so old C programmers could say "oh, yeah, I can write that > Object stuff: see here's my C++ code..." 'Nuff said...) > > 2) Kyma - Smalltalk, 'da grandaddy of O-O languages! :-) I wish I > could afford a Kyma system RIGHT NOW!! (maybe later, > Kurt/Carla...). > > 3) Stephen Pope's MODE (again, Smalltalk). > > 4) Perry Cook's C++ synth toolkit: This one should pick up > admirers: it's clearly > object-oriented in structure/approach, and is simple, looks easy to > extend. > > > Don't fantasize about a Csound re-write that will not happen: I > think the extensions > to Csound that are already going into place (as far as I know) are > the correct direction > for Csound: Inclusion of more/better opcodes, DSP assembly > implementations, > but not a complete re-write of the program's A.P.I., fer cryin' out loud! > > Well, just my thoughts...I'm sure there are those who would rather > I keep them to myself... > but, hey, what's the internet for, after all? > > Take Care, my csound companions. > And happy synthesising! > > CharlieB > baker@charlieb.com > http://www.charlieb.com >

Date	1997-02-14 14:31
From	Kent Williams
Subject	Re: prettyness of code (was Re: hidden MIDI functions)
	On 14 Feb 1997, Matthew S. Padden wrote: > > > >I do love this dry sense of humour. Let me give you some platforms > >which do not run C++. > >Archimedes; Atari; Orion; my SGI Indigo (the main machine used for > >Csound maintenence in Bath); my 386. > > > >If you guys want to move to C++, I am out of this area; suppose I > >could go back to astronomy Well the world does need astronomers, but they might make you program in Forth! C++ is available on any platform that supports Gnu C. Which might NOT mean the Archimedes, Atari or Orion, but definitely your Indigo. > > > >Brad Lindseth made some comments about GNU configure. I must be thick > >today, but I cannot think what it woudl do for me (or anyone else). > >Cpould someone explain? > > Configure is a meta-installation program, albeit one that only works on Unix machines. If you take the time to figure it out (and it is by no means simple) you can make a program that detects the platform you're trying to compile on and set up makefiles. If you ever download and install Gnu C++ or Emacs, you'll find out what it's like. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "i love the smell of new carpet. it makes me dizzy. just like when you fall in love." -- Mike Dvorkin Home Page, featuring Reagan on Black Velvet, the EMP Compilation CD, samples of my music, etc http://soli.inav.net/~kent/ Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3488 (fax)