Re: Algorithmic composition with csound

Date	1999-08-20 17:16
From	Jan Jacob Hofmann
Subject	Re: Algorithmic composition with csound
	Hello Peter, have a look at http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Software/cm/cm.html you will find there a discription about Common Music, wich I guess has this structural, algorithmical compositional approach. I never worked with it, so I cant tell you more -as far as I can see it uses alghorythmic compositional tools outside csound anyway, but see for yourself, maybe this is useful for you. Overview: Although I never worked with CM, I am still interested in hearing brief reports from people who did. What is it like? Is it useful? Is it what it promises in the overviev, a compositional tool also? Especially the GUI for c-sound called capella sounds useful. What are your experiences? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15794; 20 Aug 99 18:22 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HsNK-0005K2-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:22:46 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA07582); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:19:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:19:21 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA03620); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:19:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from [138.38.97.36] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HrGH-0002x1-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:11:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 18:19:19 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Building consound To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 20 Aug 1999 10:52:12 +0100 --- Copy of mail to gogins@nyc.pipeline.com --- Thanks for that. i have added the line #define __RPCASYNC_H__ to my sources (what does it do really?). it is possibel that i forgot to update the .mdp file in the distribution. I will take more care next time. ==John ffitch Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15800; 20 Aug 99 18:23 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HrJr-0002yD-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:15:07 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA01566); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:19:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:19:10 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA05213); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:19:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from [138.38.97.36] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HrG6-0002ww-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:11:14 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 18:19:08 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: Has anyone got Linux RT Midi in to work on 3.57? To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 20 Aug 1999 10:38:50 +0100 --- Copy of mail to lt@westnet.com --- Larry yes i do have a Linux machine and am indeed I am answering your message on my Linux machine (montague in the Changelogs). I use the Linux machine for serious synthsis as it is the fastest machine I have, although its sound card is nothing compared with the SGI machine. What i have not done is test any real-time MIDI as I do not have any significant MIDI kit to try. wrt version control I did attempt to do so once but could not find a software system which helped; since TSAS I have never found a nice version control system really. As ever I am willing to listen to advice. My current setup is that I have one master source (on the SGI actually) and I test things on the Linux, Windows or university SGi kit, and merge back. The Changelog is always maintained as a record, and that is my concession to source control. Sorry about the slight delay, but I was on the west coast of Irelend, away from all computers. ==John ffitch Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15809; 20 Aug 99 18:23 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HsOG-0005K4-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:23:44 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA10491); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:20:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:20:43 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA13535); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:20:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [138.38.97.36] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HrHb-0002xc-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:12:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 18:20:40 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: sound on toshiba tecra notebook To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 20 Aug 1999 13:31:22 +0100 ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:43:10 +0200 From: Erich Neuwirth finally, i am installing linux on my toshiba tecra notebook. does anybody have experiences with sound on this machine? can csound be made playing? greetings from austria erich - -- Erich Neuwirth, Computer Supported Didactics Working Group Visit our SunSITE at http://sunsite.univie.ac.at Phone: +43-1-4277-38624 Fax: +43-1-4277-9386 ------- End of forwarded message ------- Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15936; 20 Aug 99 18:55 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Hrp9-0002yy-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:47:28 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA04093); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:50:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:49:55 +0100 Received: from tigger.scc.uni-weimar.de [141.54.1.3] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA10677); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:49:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from chewa (pmclient37.scc.uni-weimar.de [141.54.7.46]) by tigger.scc.uni-weimar.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA05115 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:49:53 +0200 (MET DST) From: Torsten Anders To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: csound surround module Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:04:02 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.17] Content-Type: text/plain References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99082019520700.01113@chewa> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, sounds really interesting. But how is the B-Format translated to n channe= ls or how is it encoded? (I read some of the ambisonics web-pages and found a h= int on convolution, is that true? Then it will hardly be possible to execute sou= nd movements...) Torsten On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 you wrote: >i just want to clarify a few things about ambisonics (and why its so coo= l) > >- only 4 channels of data for full periphonic surround - and you can hav= e >ANY number of playback speakers in any location (obviously the more you >have and the more equally spaced the better).=20 > >- it uses no psychoacoustic filtering like HRTF - it doesnt need to >because it is trying to recreate the actual sound field in 3D space at a >particular point (the center of the speaker array) - its not using some >kind of "evil trickery" to fool your brain=20 > >- and as opposed to HRTF, localization within the sound field stays in t= he >same place when you turn your head! > >- ambisonics (and B-Format[WXYZ] that it is normally stored in) is >elegant and simple in principle, which has the bonus of being=20 >computationally efficient - rotating sounds and other spatial >manipulations are done much easier in ambisonics than HRTF. > >- full 3D ambisonics (B-fromat) takes up smaller space (4chnls) than dol= by >5.1(6chnls) - dolby 5.1 isnt reall "3D" anyway - no hieght - > >- if you ever get a chance to hear it, there is no comparison to dolby. >with ambisonics, the speakers become "invisible" and you really are >immersed in a "virtual" sonic environment. =20 > >- > >- matt Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15961; 20 Aug 99 19:00 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Hsxu-0005Km-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:00:34 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA16623); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:55:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:55:03 +0100 Received: from lt@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA04471); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:55:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (lt@localhost) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28767; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:54:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:54:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Larry Troxler To: Jan Jacob Hofmann cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Algorithmic composition with csound In-Reply-To: <19990820161606.23640.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Jan Jacob Hofmann wrote: > > Although I never worked with CM, I am still > interested in hearing brief reports from people who > did. What is it like? Is it useful? Is it what it > promises in the overviev, a compositional tool also? > Especially the GUI for c-sound called capella sounds > useful. What are your experiences? > I have CM on my system and spent some time with it. It's a LISP composition environment, and as such it's completely open ended. Yes, I find it quite usefull, especially since it's extensible in any way you want, as long as you're willing to learn some LISP, and also since it allows you to work with MIDI, csound, CLM, CMN (staff notation), all within one environment. Cappella, isn't a GUI for csound as you suggest, but rather a GUI for CM. I don't know how usefull Cappella would be, since it only runs on the Mac. Larry Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16066; 20 Aug 99 19:59 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HspY-0002zS-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:51:56 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA05600); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:56:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:56:04 +0100 Received: from dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA06178); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:56:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from seanet.com (ba02.dialup.seanet.com [207.12.134.66]) by mx.seanet.com (8.9.3/Seanet-8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21677 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:56:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDA669.B8E8C892@seanet.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:03:05 -0700 From: Sean Costello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound Subject: Software for drawing signal flowcharts? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi all: I am looking for some good software to create some signal flowcharts, a la Dodge and Jerse. Does anyone have any recommendations? It does not need to generate orchestras from the images; I just want to have some good illustrations on a webpage. Are there any programs that have the relevant symbols pre-programmed? Or should I use a program like Macromedia Freehand or Adobe Illustrator? Thanks, Sean Costello Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16096; 20 Aug 99 20:04 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HtxX-0005Lk-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:04:15 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA05481); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:01:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:01:23 +0100 Received: from ha1.rdc2.on.home.com [24.9.0.15] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA17581); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:01:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from cr31801-a ([24.114.22.40]) by mail.rdc2.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <19990820190113.LLHS16610.mail.rdc2.on.home.com@cr31801-a>; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:01:13 -0700 Message-ID: <000801beeb58$12710a00$28167218@cr31801-a.etob1.on.wave.home.com> From: Stan Olejarz To: Sean Costello , csound Subject: Re: Software for drawing signal flowcharts? Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:05:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Try ABC Flow or Visio for pc -----Original Message----- From: Sean Costello To: csound Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 11:58 AM Subject: Software for drawing signal flowcharts? >Hi all: > >I am looking for some good software to create some signal flowcharts, a la Dodge >and Jerse. Does anyone have any recommendations? It does not need to generate >orchestras from the images; I just want to have some good illustrations on a >webpage. Are there any programs that have the relevant symbols pre-programmed? >Or should I use a program like Macromedia Freehand or Adobe Illustrator? > >Thanks, > >Sean Costello Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16305; 20 Aug 99 21:40 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HuOl-00030Z-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:32:23 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA14425); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:29:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:29:19 +0100 Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (VAA08800); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:29:19 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 2537 invoked from network); 20 Aug 1999 20:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.157) by jaguars with SMTP; 20 Aug 1999 20:28:46 -0000 Message-ID: <37BDBC8C.D543EDC0@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:37:32 +0100 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: csound surround module References: <99082019520700.01113@chewa> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Convolution is used to apply sampled impulse responses of an acoustic space, recorded ambisonically, to a sourse cound, just as it is used for reverb. The main exponent of this technique is Angelo Farina, whose website is: http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it However, basic B-Format encoding and decoding of a monophonic source is not hard, as shown by Dave Malham's own Csound examples. As these can be a little difficult to track down, I give them here: B Format encoding example, rotating around the listener; you could just as easily substitute soundin from a file for the oscillator: ;bformat.orc sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 4 instr 1 kone line p6,p3,p7 ktwo line p8,p3,p7 kenv linen p5,0.008,p3,0.02 a5 oscili kenv,cpspch(p4),1 kca = cos(kone) ksa = sin(kone) kcb = cos(ktwo) ksb = sin(ktwo) ax = a5 * kca kcb ay = a5 ksa * kcb az = a5 * ksb aw = a5 * 0.707 outq ax,ay,az,aw endin ;bformat.sco ; p4 = pitch ; p6 = start angle from centre front ; p7 = end angle ; p8 = start angle from horizontal ; p9 = end angle f1 0 1024 10 1 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .7 .4 .4 .4 .4 .3 .3 .3 .3 .2 .2 .2 .2 ;p1 p2 p3 p4 p5 p6 p7 p8 p9 i1 0.0 10.0 5.07 15000 0 6.2832 0 0 i1 + 5.0 . . . . . . i1 + 0.16 . . 0 0 . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . > > . . i1 + . . . 6.2832 6.2832 . . e And to decode the resulting b-format file (horizontal only) into four channels: ;abfdcode.orc sr = 44100 kr = 441 ksmps = 100 nchnls = 4 instr 2 ax,ay,az,aw soundin 1 a1 = aw + (ax * 0.707) - (ay * 0.707) a2 = aw + (ax * 0.707) + (ay * 0.707) a3 = aw - (ax * 0.707) + (ay * 0.707) a4 = aw - (ax * 0.707) - (ay * 0.707) outq a1,a2,a3,a4 endin periphonic decoding with height requires more than four channels, typically eight, in a cube arrangement. I don't have any csound examples for this, unfortunately. Of course, to play such quad files, a true multi-channel sourncartd is essential, not least because any synchronisation errors between the channels would be disastrous. Also, FWIW, I took the liberty a while back of defining a custom sub-format of the new WAVE-FORMAT_EXTENSIBLE, for B-Format audio. Details are on my website; the format is used in the CDP Multi-Channel Toolkit, which includes a play program which decodes (horizontally) a B-Format file in the new format. There is a large example file (some 5 MBytes) on Angelo's website. Angelo is working on a Windows GUI decoder/player, which I am hoping he will post publicly soon. Anyone really interested in ambisonics should subscribe to the sursound discussion group, details of which are on Dave Malham's pages at York, and also on Richard Elen's ambisonic website: http://www.ambisonic.net/ Richard Dobson Torsten Anders wrote: > > Hi, > > sounds really interesting. But how is the B-Format translated to n channels or > how is it encoded? (I read some of the ambisonics web-pages and found a hint on > convolution, is that true? Then it will hardly be possible to execute sound > movements...) > > Torsten > -- Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd (LU: 6th July 1999) CDP: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm (LU: 14th June 1999) Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16416; 20 Aug 99 22:50 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HwYH-0005N6-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:50:21 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA18519); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:46:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:46:26 +0100 Received: from root@news.cube.net [194.97.64.2] by hermes via SMTP (WAA09842); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:46:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from orpheus.selene.cube.net([193.149.39.225]) (1708 bytes) by salyko.cube.net via smtpd with P:smtp/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:46:23 +0200 (MEST) (Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #2 built 1999-Aug-6) Received: from hermes by orpheus.selene.cube.net (NX5.67f2/NX3.0M) id AA21257; Fri, 20 Aug 99 23:45:59 +0200 Message-Id: <9908202145.AA21257@orpheus.selene.cube.net> Received: by hermes.selene.cube.net (NX5.67g/NX3.0X) id AA00572; Fri, 20 Aug 99 23:45:56 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Peter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Neub=E4cker?= Date: Fri, 20 Aug 99 23:45:55 +0200 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Algorithmic composition with csound Reply-To: peter@orpheus.selene.cube.net References: <19990819220202.YDMT16170.fep02-svc@fep08-svc.tin.it> Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > Why don't use a pipe and "-L pipename" (or "--lineeventdev=pipename" ) > flag and drive Csound with an external program. I find it is much easier > to write complex programs in C, C++, PERL, Python, basic, ... than in > the Csound orc language. That's what I usually do - but there are some reasons why I want to do algorithmic composition all within csound: - piping line events is not always in time when events are generated fast - when you define the composition algorithm in csound the way I implemented it you get what you meant to get in realtime... - I m giving a lecture to people interested in sound generation and algorithmic composition who are not programmers - so I looked for a way not to make them learn more languages than just csound... Best greetings - Peter Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16486; 20 Aug 99 23:40 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HwGc-000322-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:32:06 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA10878); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:36:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:36:23 +0100 Received: from tigger.scc.uni-weimar.de [141.54.1.3] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA15428); Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:36:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from chewa (pmclient37.scc.uni-weimar.de [141.54.7.46]) by tigger.scc.uni-weimar.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA13369 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:36:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: Torsten Anders To: CSound list Subject: nestedap questions Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:11:02 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.17] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99082023405502.01113@chewa> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, I have played around with the nestedap opcode - it seems to exept its ide= l in sec (not given in doc...). In this case the example in the doc is a littl= e strange: more then 100 sec del time for a 4 sec note. It seems idel1 have to be greater then idel2 and this as idel3. I do not understand that, but if so it could be added to the doc. If I try: =09instr 1 =09imax =3D 1 =09idel1 =3D .001 ; to little =09igain1 =3D .3 =09idel2 =3D .002 ; to little =09igain2 =3D .3 =09idel3 =3D .003 =09igain3 =3D .3 =09aout nestedap gasig, 3, imax, idel1, igain1, idel2, igain2, idel3, i= gain3 =09outs aout-gasig, aout+gasig =09endin CSound answers: =09INIT ERROR in instr 1: illegal delay time=20 The same to=20 =09instr 1 =09imax =3D 1 =09idel1 =3D .003 ; to little =09igain1 =3D .3 =09idel2 =3D .002 ; to little =09igain2 =3D .3 =09idel3 =3D .001 =09igain3 =3D .3 =09aout nestedap gasig, 3, imax, idel1, igain1, idel2, igain2, idel3, i= gain3 =09outs aout-gasig, aout+gasig =09endin but this will work: =09instr 1 =09imax =3D 1 =09idel1 =3D .006 =09igain1 =3D .3 =09idel2 =3D .003 =09igain2 =3D .3 =09idel3 =3D .001 =09igain3 =3D .3 =09aout nestedap gasig, 3, imax, idel1, igain1, idel2, igain2, idel3, i= gain3 =09outs aout-gasig, aout+gasig =09endin Any idea? Torsten Anders Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16609; 21 Aug 99 1:04 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Hydv-0005OL-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:04:19 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA11278); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:02:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:02:03 +0100 Received: from howl.werewolf.net [12.23.152.10] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA02856); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:02:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from default (dial56.werewolf.net [12.23.153.56]) by howl.werewolf.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA04405 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:56:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <000c01beeb69$902e4f00$3899170c@default> From: Hans Mikelson To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Subject: Re: Algorithmic composition with csound Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:10:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, Dave wrote: >Hans, can you give some more details about a KeyKit/Csound connection ? >What do you mean by "midified" ? (I like KeyKit too). I am just using Keykit to do the midi file and then using Csound to render the sound or you can "pipe" it to Csound for real-time playback using Hubi's loopback or a similar device. I don't know about platforms besides Win95 and WinNT since those are all I have running right now. Most of my algorithms are written as functions right now so when I call the function it starts playing the piece pretty much immediately. One advantage to using Keykit is that its simple enough to not hog all the system resources, its cross-platform (isn't it?) and it is a programming language so if you like Csound there's a good chance you will like Keykit. Bye, Hans Mikelson Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16626; 21 Aug 99 1:12 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Hxi5-00033E-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:04:33 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA14562); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:08:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:08:49 +0100 Received: from 203-109-250-76.ihug.net [203.109.250.76] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA08730); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:08:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au (p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au [206.17.109.238]) by smtp3.ihug.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12207 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:13:13 +1000 To: csound In-Reply-To: <283AABB8FD0DD21187C200A0C995F5DEECB086@neptune.lyrick.com> Subject: Re: cleaning recordings From: Roland Morris Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:10:24 +1000 Message-ID: <1dwvqke.tnoqun5b0qifM@p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au> Organization: soundfish@sea User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi all. I don't think I've posted here before although I've been subscribed for quite a while. I'm a sound designer but only the tax department call me that. Regards audio restoration, SoundHack gives an excellent result using spectral dynamics gate ducking. I've done some film restoration through various realtime Cedar units and they work, believe me, especially the De-Hisser, and to a level that exposes the underlayer masked by noise. The best approach to noise removal is to do a little at a time and keep re-evaluating at each pass. Cheers -- Roland Morris Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16632; 21 Aug 99 1:13 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Hymr-0005OS-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:13:33 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA04914); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:11:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:10:42 +0100 Received: from 203-109-250-76.ihug.net [203.109.250.76] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA15331); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:10:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au (p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au [206.17.109.238]) by smtp3.ihug.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12251 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:15:02 +1000 To: csound In-Reply-To: <37BDA669.B8E8C892@seanet.com> Subject: Re: Software for drawing signal flowcharts? From: Roland Morris Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:12:13 +1000 Message-ID: <1dwvqg2.16qlcc8wu70n4M@p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au> Organization: soundfish@sea User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk costello@seanet.com (Sean Costello) wrote: > I am looking for some good software to create some signal flowcharts, Look for MacFlow or Mac Flow. It does what you want. -- Roland Morris Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16640; 21 Aug 99 1:14 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Hxjm-00033G-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:06:18 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA00325); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:11:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:10:43 +0100 Received: from 203-109-250-76.ihug.net [203.109.250.76] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA06188); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:10:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au (p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au [206.17.109.238]) by smtp3.ihug.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12256 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:15:08 +1000 To: csound In-Reply-To: <99082019520700.01113@chewa> Subject: Re: csound surround module From: Roland Morris Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:12:19 +1000 Message-ID: <1dwvqj0.wkfj2614kxiywM@p46-max27.syd.ihug.com.au> Organization: soundfish@sea User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk torsten.anders@hfm.uni-weimar.de (Torsten Anders) wrote: > sounds really interesting. But how is the B-Format translated to n channels or > how is it encoded? I found understanding the way the Soundfield (WXYZ) microphone works to be beneficial. http://www.transaudiogroup.com/soundfield/b_format.html > >- LakeDSP do this virtually and Dolby are keeping a very close eye on them to be sure. http://www.headwize.com/pdfs/lake2.pdf http://www.lakedsp.com -- Roland Morris Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16674; 21 Aug 99 1:45 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HyDk-00033L-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:37:16 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA13455); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:43:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:42:53 +0100 Received: from neptune.lyrick.com [38.227.100.46] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA11343); Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:42:52 +0100 (BST) Received: by neptune.lyrick.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:42:50 -0500 Message-ID: <283AABB8FD0DD21187C200A0C995F5DEECB08D@neptune.lyrick.com> From: David Boothe To: 'Torsten Anders' , 'Csound' Subject: RE: nestedap questions Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:42:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >From looking at the code, with my very limited C language knowledge, it appears that idel arguments should indeed be specified in seconds. As for the rest, idel1 must be greater than the sum of idel2 and idel3. While your second example will not run: idel1 = .003 idel2 = .002 idel3 = .001 this will run: idel1 = .0031 idel2 = .002 idel3 = .001 as will this: idel1 = .003 idel2 = .001 idel3 = .001 Hope this helps. -David. Torsten Anders wrote: I have played around with the nestedap opcode - it seems to exept its idel in sec (not given in doc...). In this case the example in the doc is a little strange: more then 100 sec del time for a 4 sec note. It seems idel1 have to be greater then idel2 and this as idel3. I do not understand that, but if so it could be added to the doc. If I try: instr 1 imax = 1 idel1 = .001 ; to little igain1 = .3 idel2 = .002 ; to little igain2 = .3 idel3 = .003 igain3 = .3 aout nestedap gasig, 3, imax, idel1, igain1, idel2, igain2, idel3, igain3 outs aout-gasig, aout+gasig endin CSound answers: INIT ERROR in instr 1: illegal delay time The same to instr 1 imax = 1 idel1 = .003 ; to little igain1 = .3 idel2 = .002 ; to little igain2 = .3 idel3 = .001 igain3 = .3 aout nestedap gasig, 3, imax, idel1, igain1, idel2, igain2, idel3, igain3 outs aout-gasig, aout+gasig endin but this will work: instr 1 imax = 1 idel1 = .006 igain1 = .3 idel2 = .003 igain2 = .3 idel3 = .001 igain3 = .3 aout nestedap gasig, 3, imax, idel1, igain1, idel2, igain2, idel3, igain3 outs aout-gasig, aout+gasig endin Any idea? Torsten Anders

Date	1999-08-20 18:54
From	Larry Troxler
Subject	Re: Algorithmic composition with csound
	On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Jan Jacob Hofmann wrote: > > Although I never worked with CM, I am still > interested in hearing brief reports from people who > did. What is it like? Is it useful? Is it what it > promises in the overviev, a compositional tool also? > Especially the GUI for c-sound called capella sounds > useful. What are your experiences? > I have CM on my system and spent some time with it. It's a LISP composition environment, and as such it's completely open ended. Yes, I find it quite usefull, especially since it's extensible in any way you want, as long as you're willing to learn some LISP, and also since it allows you to work with MIDI, csound, CLM, CMN (staff notation), all within one environment. Cappella, isn't a GUI for csound as you suggest, but rather a GUI for CM. I don't know how usefull Cappella would be, since it only runs on the Mac. Larry