| I have applied those fixers to my sources. Those using my version
should note that the fixes are in soundio.c and in diskin.c (which
were split as it would not compile on an Atari)
==John
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From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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In-Reply-To: (message from Kay Q Lee on Sun,
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Subject: Re: Why Csound?
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Yes; I regularly switch between Windows and Unix with the same
files (orcsco/samples). That has been a driving aim for me; all
Csounds should be the same. We are not there yet, and indeed have
recently gone backwards, but that is certainly the aim.
Many users seem to have PC's at home and Unix at universities etc. I
cannot see any good reason for them to differ except in GUI terms.
==John
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From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Newbie question: window
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When doing a phase vocoding one is really doing a Fourier transform on
a series of sections of the audio. These sections are called windows,
and and usually arranged so as to overlap. The PV file is the
spectral information for a series of these time windows.
I realise that is a simplistic explaination, but..... the larger the
window the faster the PV, but the more smearing there is as it does
not track changes so well. Small windows are slow, and not so
accurate as there is insufficient data to get accurate estimates.
I leave it to teh DSP experts to explain in detail.
==John ff
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 09:18:59 -0600
From: Mike Berry
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The tradeoff in a FFT-based analysis system is between temporal accuracy and
frequency accuracy. An FFT is an "analysis" of a chunk of samples in time.
If your window is 1024 samples, then you get a single set of FFT data which
represents these 1024 samples. You would get 512 different amplitudes and
phases of frequency bands, the bands equally spaced across the spectrum. At
44.1kHz, this means a band every 43 Hz (22050 / 512). However, your temporal
information is completely hidden inside the transform. If a note were to
start in the middle of a window, you would not know exactly when it started.
In effect, the temporal data is "quantized" (I say quantized but really it is
a kind of indeterminacy) to 23 ms in this case (1024 samples / 44.1kHz).
So here's where the tradeoff begins. Make the window 512 samples. Then you
quantize to 11.6 ms, but you only get bands every 86 Hz. 2048 samples = 22 Hz
but 46 ms.
The Phase Vocoding process assumes that the data in the FFT analysis can be
stretched or compressed temporally. This assumption is more or less valid
depending on the original material and how it was analyzed. As a general
rule, continuously pitched material is going to sound better if a large window
is used, because the frequencies are going to be more accurate. Music with
many "events" will sound better with a small window. Unfortunately, most
music has both elements, so you need to reach a compromise that suits your
purposes. That's why the window size in not defined for you.
> I realise that is a simplistic explaination, but..... the larger the
> window the faster the PV, but the more smearing there is as it does
> not track changes so well. Small windows are slow, and not so
> accurate as there is insufficient data to get accurate estimates.
--
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb
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To: xtcsound@lists.bath.AC.UK
From: Karl Petermichl
Subject: hardware conflicts possible?
Hi,
I am glad this list is up and running, thanks to all who make this possible.
I received my card 2 weeks ago but have not installed it because I wanted
to find out about possible problems with othe sound cards. As I couldnt
find the specific needs for I/O areas, DMA channles or Interrupts in the
enclosed infos, I want to ask this on this list.
I do have a Terratec EWS64XL at the moment, which is VERY resource hungry,
so maybe I should dump it BEFORE I install the xtc board?
BTW, is it possible to use the digital ins from the xtc board for straight
HD reording from Win applications like Soundforge etc? the info says it
does install windows drivers but I wanted to check this BEFORE I install
it...
I hope I can in the future ask not such (...stupid...) basic questions, but
post interesting sound design tips.....:)))))))
Thanks for any answers,
karl.
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 22:05:38 +0100
From: Jamie Bullock
Subject: Re: Multichannel outs
To: Csound List
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-----Original Message-----
From: johnnie ligotage
To: Jamie Bullock
Cc: Csound List
Date: 13 June 1998 00:55
Subject: Re: Multichannel outs
>> them. Perhaps it's up to people like us (Csounders) to put pressure on
our
>> respective soundcard manufacturers to provide proper Quad driver suppo=
rt.
>> As Richard implies, it's only a matter of time before multi-channel
support
>> is pretty much standard.
>
>I'm relatively new to this list and am using an atari falcon. Ever since
>the machine came out, we've had support for up to 8 channel output. OK y=
ou
>need to buy some extra hardware - <=A3200 - but it's there. We've even g=
ot a
>dedicated DSP chip. Strikes me, that pc and mac owners are a bit behind
>the times... ;-)
>
I don't think so!
Like a few others you've misinterpreted my posting, re: there is a big
difference between the numerous cards/drivers/apps which support
'multichannel recording and playback', and cards/drivers/apps which are a=
ble
to record/playback multichannel files (ie. more than stereo). In fact I
have only ever come accross a handful of apps which can deal with
multichannel files, and have never been able to play one back in its
original form.
I can only re-iterate Richard Dobson's recent comments with regard to
reasons for not making multichannel files redundant, but suffice to say, =
the
ultimate scenario would be to take an Octophonic file into a DSP app, and
process it with true Octaphonic reverb or subject it to other processes
which make use of its multichannel nature.
I'm not preaching that working in multichannels is definitely the way
forward, in fact stereo diffused over multiple channels may be much more
effective for certain types of material. However, it would be nice to try
some of these things out.
Regards,
JamieB
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:16:24 -0500
From: pete moss
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Subject: diffusion
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there has been a word thrown around recently that i dont quite
understand. that word is diffusion. i understand that it may be
possible to play a stereo file into more than two channels, but how
exactly does diffusion work? do you just pan one channel between
several others? does anyone know of any good literature on the subject?
pete
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From: Paul Winkler
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 18:43:29 PDT
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I'm new to C programming. I'm trying to make a test program write a
series of csound score events to somewhere csound can read them in
realtime (by using the -L flag). So far the only thing that works is to
do "foobar | csound -L etc..." which is not what I want, because
eventually I want foobar to accept some user commands before starting
csound itself via system(). I tried doing that and having my app just
printf() the score events to standard output. Doesn't work: csound does
in fact start, but it seems to ignore the score events even though I see
them on stdout. Of course then I realized why -- the pipe's missing!
I know there's a way to do this, and I think it has to do with mkfifo or
popen or something, but my limited C/unix knowledge is hampering me and
I can't seem to figure it out from my big fat C book ("A Book on C" by
Kelley & Pohl).
Can anyone sketch out a basic method to use for this? What device to I
want to use with the -L flag, and how do I get my code to write to it?
Point me to some tutorials, man pages, or anything else useful... or
just send me a few lines of code and I'll figure it out from there...
thanks,
PW
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From: Toby
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To: Paul Winkler ,
Csound Mailing List
Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
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I have only read about this sort of thing, but I have
an idea that I think would be PAINLESS!!
Use the unix command 'mkfifo' to establish the pipe first
in the file system. Then you can 'fopen()' the pipe from C,
and cause Csound to read from the pipe in the 'system() command'.
Sure, it's not pretty, but if all you want is for the thing to
work, then this may be your answer.
Cleaner would be 'popen()' with a fork(), or better yet shmget().
Tougher though.
Toby
-There otta be a law-
> I know there's a way to do this, and I think it has to do with mkfifo or
> popen or something, but my limited C/unix knowledge is hampering me and
> I can't seem to figure it out from my big fat C book ("A Book on C" by
> Kelley & Pohl).
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Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
To: zarmzarm@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 7:49:11 METDST
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <19980616014329.23978.qmail@hotmail.com>; from "Paul Winkler" at Jun 15, 98 6:43 pm
Organization: Hewlett-Packard GmbH
From: Jens Kilian
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> I know there's a way to do this, and I think it has to do with mkfifo or
> popen or something, but my limited C/unix knowledge is hampering me and
> I can't seem to figure it out from my big fat C book ("A Book on C" by
> Kelley & Pohl).
popen() is what you want.
popen() combines system() with fopen():
FILE *fp = popen("csound -L ...", "w");
fprintf(fp, "score event", ...);
pclose(fp);
HTH,
Jens.
--
mailto:jjk@acm.org phone:+49-7031-14-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698)
http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-14-7351
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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:58:15 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: Csound mailing list
Cc: zarmzarm@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
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On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Jens Kilian wrote:
> > I know there's a way to do this, and I think it has to do with mkfifo or
> > popen or something, but my limited C/unix knowledge is hampering me and
> > I can't seem to figure it out from my big fat C book ("A Book on C" by
> > Kelley & Pohl).
>
> popen() is what you want.
>
> popen() combines system() with fopen():
>
> FILE *fp = popen("csound -L ...", "w");
^^^
^^^
precisely, what name would you put there for a device? I tried making a
fifo queue with mkfifo, then piping data into it, then opening
csound -L fifo etc. etc. but it does'nt work. It says:
Csound Version 3.482
(Jun 5 1998)
orchname: osc.orc
realtime performance using dummy numeric scorefile
orch compiler:
13 lines read
instr 1
MIT Csound: 3.482 (Jun 5 1998)
orch now loaded
displays suppressed
stdmode = 00000000 Linefd = 3
audio buffered in 1024 sample-frame blocks
WARNING: Sample rate set to 44194 (instead of 44100)
hardware buffers set to 2048 bytes
writing 2048-byte blks of shorts to devaudio (IRCAM)
cannot reopen (null)
stdmode = 00000000 Linefd = 3
and quits. Of course if we were to use real unix facilities, we should
be doing something like this:
echo "i1, f1, etc. blah blah" | csound -do devaudio -L - orc.orc
where the '-' after the -L, as in all unix utilities would be intended
to be 'stdin' because there is no name for stdin since it can be the
tty you're working on *OR* a redirected file *OR* a pipe etc. (everything
is automatically handled by your shell so there's no single stdin
device). Not yet implemented perhaps?
>
> fprintf(fp, "score event", ...);
>
> pclose(fp);
Yes and there would be no need for C programming at all, BTW.
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 9:36:52 METDST
In-Reply-To: ; from "Nicola Bernardini" at Jun 16, 98 8:58 am
Organization: Hewlett-Packard GmbH
From: Jens Kilian
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> > FILE *fp = popen("csound -L ...", "w");
> ^^^
> ^^^
> precisely, what name would you put there for a device? I tried making a
> fifo queue with mkfifo, then piping data into it, then opening
> csound -L fifo etc. etc. but it does'nt work.
It should be whatever causes Csound to read from stdin. I don't recall
offhand if that's even possible. Perhaps "stdin" or "console"?
(It *should* be "-", of course.)
> where the '-' after the -L, as in all unix utilities would be intended
> to be 'stdin' because there is no name for stdin since it can be the
> tty you're working on *OR* a redirected file *OR* a pipe etc. (everything
> is automatically handled by your shell so there's no single stdin
> device). Not yet implemented perhaps?
I think that at least some Csound versions can read from stdin, but don't call
it "-".
Bye,
Jens.
--
mailto:jjk@acm.org phone:+49-7031-14-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698)
http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-14-7351
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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 11:22:42 +0100
From: Richard Dobson
Organization: Composers Desktop project
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To: csound
Subject: Re: diffusion
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This is a classic case of one word having different meanings in different
contexts. For acousticians, recording engineers and designers of reverb systems,
it refers to the way sound is spread (and reduced in energy) when reflected from
irregular surfaces (by direect analogy with optical diffusion).
The term is also used by electro-acoustic composers and sound engineers, to
refer to the sometimes serendipitous technique of playing back a (presumably
stereo) sound through a multi-speaker setup, by fiddling around with channel
sliders on a mixer (or using some hitec automated process. The term usually
embraces not just the live performance, but also the technical preparations in
setting up the speakers, mixer, and so on.
So sound will be diffused by an acoustical space, but it will also be diffused
by the way it is presented over a speaker system in live performance.
I know of no literature about the latter meaning - it's probably best to go to a
few concerts and talk to the people twiddling the knobs!
Richard Dobson
pete moss wrote:
>
> there has been a word thrown around recently that i dont quite
> understand. that word is diffusion. i understand that it may be
> possible to play a stereo file into more than two channels, but how
> exactly does diffusion work? do you just pan one channel between
> several others? does anyone know of any good literature on the subject?
>
> pete
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From: Dave Perry
To: CSound
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:15:22 +0000
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Subject: VisOrc 1.75
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Hi all,
First, thanks to everyone who downloaded version 1.7, and also
for all the encouraging mail I have received in the last few weeks.
Before I vacate the country for a few weeks I've put out a small
upgrade which fixes some bugs and adds some more features. You can
now find VisOrc and the upgrade at my site:
at Robin Whittle's HomePage (Australia)
and at the Bath FTP server
If you haven't seen VisOrc in a while, why not check out a screen
shot of the new version:
The ORC editor:
The SCO editor:
With thanks,
Dave Perry
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