| It's the Analog Devices proprietary version of Csound, running on a SHARC.
They are not planning to sell cards to end users, but they do sell a
development system (SDK), for $1000. There is a small amount of information on
their web site: try
http://www.analog.com/publications/press/products/AES_Nxt_092697.html
There are several users on this list, including me.
Richard Dobson
steele wrote:
> Uh..It's me again.
>
> Can someone please tell me what Extended Csound is and also,does anyone
> here use an Analog Devices DSP board ? I understand it runs Csound
> ?Wonder what it costs ...
>
> Later,
> Drew
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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 14:40:11 +0100
From: rasmus ekman
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Please gentlemen!
Scrambled ascii, and essentialist musicology reveries I can
easily take, at least it shows some personality;
but let's not have too many more rounds of corporate blurb.
(ok in one more sympathetic case, uncorporate blurb)
It's been reasonably low-key, thank you for that, but you can
go to *any* newsgroup, *any* mailing list, take *any* topic,
and turn it into this kind of tapeloop contest at any time.
I'm sorry, somehow this hogs my system.
(Also a little edgy, been to yuppieland for three weeks,
glad to get out now.)
Regards all,
re
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Reply-To: Ken Locarnini
From: Ken Locarnini
To: CSound Mailing List
Subject: Direct Sound?
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:46:21 -0800
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Perhaps we should write Direct Sound hooks for Csound? I here list =
price in the $200 -$300 range. 128 digital audio channels! + surround =
sound. Surely this would satisfy??????
http://www.creativelabs.com/pressroom/releases/1997/p971117b.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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The Renew Eden Project
"You will see it, when you believe it."
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Perhaps we should write Direct Sound =
hooks for=20
Csound? I here list price in the $200 -$300 range. 128 =
digital audio=20
channels! + surround sound. Surely this would =
satisfy??????
http://www.creativelabs.com/pressroom/releases/1997/p971117b.html
------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------
The=20
Renew Eden Project
"You will see it, when you believe=20
it."
------------------------------------------------------------=
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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:04:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Micheal Allen Thompson
To: steele
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: (off-topic) future of non-Wintel,etc.
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Speaking of 64-bit.... has anybody got csound to compile under the SGI
IDO (MipsPro 7.1 or 7.2)? IRIX has 3 configurations: -o32 (old 32-bit)
-n32(new 32-bit) -n64(the 64-bit). I have the compiler at school (7.1)
with -n32 but do to disk space I could not install the 64 bit stuff
although I can run 64 bit binaries....
On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, steele wrote:
> Sorry for more off-topic banter,but I may not be the only one on the
> list who's ,well,clueless,but getting some valuable info from this
> thread.
>
> >> But Linux, FreeBSD, WinNT are not 64-bit OS's.... so even though the
> >> processor is 64-bit the OS is still 32-bit...
> What about the native OSes,Digital Unix,Solaris,Irix,etc. ? Excuse me if
> this is a stupid question. (speaking of which,can anyone reccomend a good
> book/resource that would get a beginner started on serious programming
> in different languages?)
IRIX is 64-bit starting with 6.2.... I think the chip needs to be R4400 or
higher.... not sure on that.....
> khalid :
> >Linux AXP (Linux on Alpha) kernel is definitely a clean 64 bit kernel.
> >It's still possible to build 32-bit apps if you have the sources but
> >you usually have when you're running Linux.
> >
> Neat! Any pointers to resources for music/audio apps for Linux AXP ?
> >If you have some question about alpha-linux try:
> > axp-list@redhat.com
> -Assume this is a mailing list,so wouldn't I need to subscribe?How?
> >
> Gregory :
> >Follow links to vendors from www.alphapowered.com. Some sell
> >500 MHz Alpha PC164pc systems for < $2,000 (running Linux, FreeBSD, etc.,
> >or WinNT.) Digital I/O is supported in OSS/Alpha for Zefiro ZA2, and
> >other digital I/O cards.
> -Thanks for the info.
>
> Ed:
> > the whole idea of dense-packing data
> > structures in Csound deserves some reconsideration. Choosing speed
> > over compactness should at least be an option.
> Most interesting.Perhaps it's time some interprising tinkerers got down
> to writing/port 64-bit apps.,etc.Let us know when anyone gets a version
> of Csound optimised for Alpha or other 64-bit proc cessors.
>
> Personally I'm just a beginner at all this.But my point is that if we
> made the jump over to pure 64-bit computing,we'd have a lot of
> possibilities open to feed our imaginations and for our imaginations to
> feed.
Michael
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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:34:44 -0500
From: Jean Piche
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To: Micheal Allen Thompson
Cc: steele , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: (off-topic) future of non-Wintel,etc.
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Micheal Allen Thompson wrote:
>
> Speaking of 64-bit.... has anybody got csound to compile under the SGI
> IDO (MipsPro 7.1 or 7.2)? IRIX has 3 configurations: -o32 (old 32-bit)
> -n32(new 32-bit) -n64(the 64-bit). I have the compiler at school (7.1)
> with -n32 but do to disk space I could not install the 64 bit stuff
> although I can run 64 bit binaries....
Doug Cook at SGI has/had a MIT version compiled on an r10k I believe that was
done with the 64 bit flags, but i seem to rememeber that the performance gains
were modest with both the -n32 and the -n64 libs. Something to do with the way
csound handles floats...
> IRIX is 64-bit starting with 6.2.... I think the chip needs to be R4400 or
> higher.... not sure on that.....
r4k and up I believe.
--
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/
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From: tolve
Subject: C Tutorial, Comp Mus & Math Books
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:45:58 -0500
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drew & csounders,
WARNING: a long & winding post containing resources for us beginners!
Metrowerks offers a software tutorial "Discover Programming" for c for mac
at around $100 that also contains complete books on disk and info on
purchasing paper editions.
Metrowerks sales 1 800 377-5416
www.metrowerks.com
i checked this package out briefly about a year ago and enthusiastically
recommend it -in fact i hope to actually study it a bit very soon. only
catch is that programs you create will not run in native PPC mode: for that
you would buy Metrowerks CodeWarrior (seems to be the preferred package
among developers for C) imagine this or something similar is also available
for other platforms.
as discussed recently on this list, you also need some math, at least
through algebra, though calculus is essential for complete understanding of
what is currently understood about sound. here are some highlights of that
thread...
KIM recommended:
>the ProOne CDROM Algebra refresher is very useful (I tried finding the
>bookmark for them in Netscape but I think it's on my home PC)...as well as
>many brefresher workbooks that can be found at Barnes & Noble...
Hans Mikelson wrote:
>Calculus by Howard Anton pub. John Wiley & Sons
>
>This seemed to be the standard text when I took Calculus. I got my copy as
>a discarded text at our university bookstore for $1.00...that's only about
>10 cents a pound! I'm not sure how useful it will be as a self study but
>it is an excellent and thorough reference. It was used for a three
>semester calculus course.
>
>Mathcad is a pretty good inexpensive program for playing with math.
>
>If I had known complex numbers played such a big role in digital filters I
>would probably have been much more interested when I took a course in
>complex variables.
>Numerical analysis would also be a useful field of study.
Erik Spjut wrote:
>...If you want to understand HOW foscil works (as opposed to
>twiddling knobs or parameters) you need knowledge of Fourier series or
>transforms and Bessel functions, which requires a minimum of calculus and
>probably some complex algebra. If you want to know where physical models
>come from (and maybe design your own) you need to understand partial
>differential equations. There is nothing wrong with knob twiddling, but if
>that's all you do, there will be parts of digital synthesis that are
>forever hidden from you.
>
>However, Stradivarius was a lousy violinist and Issac Stern was never a
>world-class violin maker. The artist and the recording engineer are both
>necessary. The question ultimately boils down to your interests, desires,
>and abilities.
charles baker:
from David Boothe:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here is one I'm using for algebra. It is short (178 pp)and succinct,
more of a reference book really, but good as a review, if like me, your
formal algebra study was long, long ago in a galaxy far away.
"Master Math: Algebra" by Debra Anne Ross. Career Press, 1996. ISBN:
1-56414-194-2 US$9.95
Career Press
3 Tice Rd.
P.O. Box 687
Franklin Lakes, New Jersey, 07147
USA
(800)CAREER-1 or (201)848-0310
They also have one on pre-calculus and geometry. Haven't seen it,
though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Charles Baker:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I very much recommend the first two chapters of
Digital Audio Signal Processing: An Anthology, ed. by J. Strawn
{Digital Audio Signal Processing, An Anthology, ed. by John Strawn
The Computer Music and Digital Audio Series
William Kaufman, LosAltos, CA, publisher (1985)
ISBN 0-86576-082-9}
these are
"An Introduction to the Mathematics of Digital Signal Processing" by F.R.
Moore
and
"An Introduction the Digital Filter Theory" by J.O.Smith
They require no more than basic algebra to begin, and Dick Moore's chapter
introduces
the analytic geometry and calculus it uses in perhaps the clearest and most
gentle way I have ever seen! Heck, I am a *trumpet* player, and I understood!
;-) Similarly, I think Julius' intro to filter
theory is a model of clarity. Three thumbs up!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and the old standbys (year old prices):
Elements of Computer Music by F. Richard Moore published by Prentice Hall.
ISBN # 0-13-252-552-6 $64 plus tax and S&H
Author suggests prerequisite of knowledge of C language and music notation.
Available in the U.S. from Simon & Schuster Telephone: 800 947-7700
The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads published by MIT Press
U.S. Tel: 800 356-0343 extension 772 $55 in paperback.
Computer Music by Charles Dodge
brand new edition!
approximately $42
published by Macmillan. U.S. Telephone: 800 223-2336
more books on computer music...
http://www.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk/~amxvl/junho97.htm
oh yeah, there is also the csound manual. i usually forget to look at that!
happier csounding!
tolve
Drew Skyfyre wrote:
>,,,(speaking of which,can anyone recommend a good
>book/resource that would get a beginner started on serious programming
>in different languages?)
jean piche responded
>...there are now so many programming languages that it is very
>difficult to recommend one without asking: What do you want to program?
>For core
>signal processing apps (like Csound) or for clocked output (Midi
>sequencers), it
>is difficult to avoid C as this will yeild the most compact and efficient
>code.
>For interface purposes where speed is not critical, tcltk and java are
>both fine
>choices although I prefer the former. Lest we forget, lisp has much to
>recommend
>it, including a full synthesis-processing-composing-notating system out of
>Stanford (CLM-CM-CMN)
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From: =cw4t7abs
Subject: Re: C Tutorial, Comp Mus & Math Books
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>KIM recommended:
>>the ProOne CDROM Algebra
zklavaj.
>Hans Mikelson wrote:
>>Calculus by Howard Anton pub. John Wiley & Sons
zklavaj.
>Erik Spjut wrote:
>>...If you want to understand HOW foscil works (as opposed to
>>twiddling knobs or parameters) you need knowledge of Fourier series or
>>transforms and Bessel functions, which requires a minimum of calculus and
>>probably some complex algebra.
zklavaj.
>"Master Math: Algebra" by Debra Anne Ross. Career Press, 1996. ISBN:
>1-56414-194-2 US$9.95
Master zklavaj.
>The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads published by MIT Press
> U.S. Tel: 800 356-0343 extension 772 $55 in paperback.
zklavaj.
>Computer Music by Charles Dodge
>brand new edition!
>approximately $42
>published by Macmillan. U.S. Telephone: 800 223-2336
zklavaj.
>WARNING: a long & winding post containing resources for us beginners!
while(vszp) {
advanssd eq slave;
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last;
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}
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To: RWD@cableinet.co.uk
Cc: Jean Piche , csound
Subject: Re: (off-topic) future of non-Wintel,etc.
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:49:55 GMT."
<351CE3E3.6E859EA9@cableinet.co.uk>
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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 12:43:28 -0500
From: Ed Hall
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Richard Dobson writes:
> So just how efficient is a 64bit machine going to be jiggling
> all those shorts around? ( It must be even worse for text editing - unless,
> I suppose, we all move over to Unicode). How easy will it be to maintain
> source-code portability across machines with such different architectures,
> when everyone wants Csound optimized for their own machine?
Any reasonable 64-bit architecture should be able to handle smaller
elements efficiently, given care. Older Alphas were a bit of an
exception, since they lacked 8- and 16-bit load/store instructions;
that's been fixed, now. But they (and all other 64-bitters I'm aware
of) have always handled 32-bit quantities quite efficiently--either
int's or floats--and usually only show their 64-bittedness by their
robust support for 64-bit quantities and their use of 64-bit addresses
(in C, "pointers"). They have the rather common characteristic of liking
N-bit entities aligned on N-bit boundaries, so Csound's use of pointers
implies 64-bit alignments for data structures. This is what created
the problem I first described: Alphas have problems with Csound's
assumption that 32-bit alignment is "good enough" for pointers.
Folks who know about the whole 16-bit vs. 32-bit issue in the PC world
might assume that 32-bit vs. 64-bit is of a similar nature. That's not
true, since the hairiest problem in the 16-bit to 32-bit conversion was
the change from segmented to linear addressing. 64-bit addressing is
still, in its basic form, linear, just like 32-bit addressing. As long
as a program doesn't assume that sizeof(pointer) == sizeof(int), or
sizeof(int) == sizeof(long), and doesn't cast pointers from one type
to another, a simple recompile will take it from a 32-bit architecture
to a 64-bit architecture (modulo any OS issues). Alas, Csound isn't
such a program.
I really don't think the issue is having Csound optimized for each and
every architecture. A good C compiler should take care of most architecture
issues on its own. The issue is that Csound's internal memory allocation
assumes that 32-bit granularity is sufficient and efficient, and takes
control away from the compiler by using type puns, pointer arithmetic,
and other on-the-metal C coding practices. Csound's job is to turn the
orchestra and score files into sonic miracles as quickly as possible.
On a 32-bit CPU with 32-bit data paths, its assumptions are close to
optimal. But computer hardware has evolved since Csound's core was
written, and those assumptions are starting to fail. I think it is
quite possible to re-tune Csound away from these assumptions in a general
way, and bring it into the 64-bit world without any chip-specific
modifications.
After 3 paragraphs of excess verbiage, let me get concrete: three
changes, involving a half-dozen or so lines of code, made the central
score and orchestra processing of Csound 64-bit compatible. The only
downside to these changes is that 32 bits of extra padding is occasionally
"wasted" to bring things into alignment. I'm almost certain that other
issues remain in specific table- and signal-generation units, but the
same basic technique will in all likelihood suffice in these areas as
well. The downside: on 32-bit machines the extra padding is an
unnecessary waste of memory, so these changes should probably be a
compile-time option for 64-bit machines only. There may be a more
sophisticated approach that reduces or eliminates the need for padding,
but the changes to Csound's mechanisms would undoubtedly be far greater.
My estimate is that about 5% more memory is consumed, on average, a
figure that would vary for different scores and orchestras...
-Ed Hall
edhall@ayched.com
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From: tolve
Subject: Re: C Tutorial, Comp Mus & Math Books
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:25:58 -0500
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>>WARNING: a long & winding post containing resources for us
beginners!
>
>while(vszp) {
>advanssd eq slave;
> if(beg!nnerz eq advanssd_by-dzat_v-def) {
> last;
> }
>bzump;
>redo;
>}
um. ok. but maybe possible suggested orders would be helpful: manual,
ACCCI ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/mirrors/accci, algebra, comp
mus tutorial, c, elements of comp mus, calculus. dodge before or after
calculus? -music before, during and after. tweak as you go.
or: just stick bookmarks in everything.
tolve
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Reply-To: Ken Locarnini
From: Ken Locarnini
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, tolve
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Subject: Re: C Tutorial, Comp Mus & Math Books
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>while(vszp) {
>advanssd eq slave;
> if(beg!nnerz eq advanssd_by-dzat_v-def) {
> last;
> }
>bzump;
>redo;
>}
Rebel without a cause...............................
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Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 01:35:27 +0100
From: rasmus ekman
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Subject: Re: beginner
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Hugo Druetta wrote:
>
> I am interested in beginning to study it, but I need them to recommend me
> the most convenient way of making it.
Get the HTML documentation, from
ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/
or the Windows help file, from
http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Csound.htm
(this is also included with Winsound)
and the ACCCI example catalogue, with informative comments
to all the standard examples:
http://mars.let.uva.nl/gather/accci/index.html
Unfortunately this is about everything you'll have to go on
for the moment. You could perhaps get started by reading the
manual's introduction, then run the tutorial instruments in
the manual and begin tweaking the variables to see what happens.
Mail the list when you get a problem which isn't easily
covered by those texts (and remember to include orc and sco
files with any specific questions).
There is a book about Csound coming out this year, you'll probably
hear about it if you stay around on the list. (THE CSOUND BOOK:
Tutorials in Software Synthesis and Sound Design, Ed: RICHARD BOULANGER)
Regards,
re
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Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 00:41:15 -0300 (GRNLNDST)
From: Hugo Bastos de Paula
To: CSound Mailing List
Subject: spectral datatypes and operators info...
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I have been making some interesting compositions using the
octdown and the Spectrum global operators of CSound, but I would like to
know which is the theory behing this operator. How can it reduce so much
the data and get so good results? Could anybody help me, please?
[]'s
Hugo Bastos de Paula
hugo@dcc.ufmg.br
http://www.dcc.ufmg.br/~hugo
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Hi guys,
Is there a valuable/comprehensive FAQ out there at the moment ? I know
that when I started, I was cruelly missing one (most of the pages
getting very rapidly out of sync with the project). I might start my own
if it is of general interest to people...
Let me know,
Marc.
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From: Riccardo Bianchini
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Hugo Druetta wrote:
>=20
> I am interested in beginning to study it, but I need them to recommend =
me
> the most convenient way of making it.
I'm involved in three Csound courses in Argentina and Uruguay in
July/August 1998:=20
1. C=F2rdoba (Argentina), Istituto Italiano di Cultura: Basic Csound
course=20
2. Escuela Universitaria de M=F9sica, Montevideo (Uruguay): Phisical
Modelling in Csound
3. LIPM, Buenos Aires (Argentina): Phisical Modelling in Csound
(two-weeks course)
This could be a good opportunity for you.
Saludos,
Riccardo
--=20
Riccardo Bianchini, Professor
Scuola di Musica Elettronica
Conservatorio "S.Cecilia", Roma (Italy)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/4768
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