| Pablo--
My PPC is back in 7.5.5, but there is a known problem with icons
disappearing in 8.1, and subsequent releases.
Check www.macintouch.com for the latest news, and I think a
description/solution of the problem.
Grant.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pablo Silva [mailto:hpsilva@servidor.unam.mx]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 12:10 PM
> To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> Subject: Off topic: please help
>
>
> Hello everybody:
>
> I have been having the weirdest problem with my system here and wanted
> to know if anybody here can give me an idea of a possible solution...
>
> I run System 8.1 on a Mac G3 desktop (grey box). My system
> runs OK save
> for the fact that for the last few days whenever I create a new folder
> anywhere on my startup disk (but not on other disks) the new
> folder will
> come up with no icon at all. This would sound like a typical disk
> directory/finder info problem save for the fact that repeated
> tests with
> Norton Utilities, Norton Antivirus, TechTool Pro have shown no problem
> at all. I have rebuilt the desktop several times now, some after
> revision with Norton Utilities and TechTool Pro, to no avail.
> I've tried
> substituting the non-icon for the folder with new ones in the finder
> info windows too, with no results. It's the first time I see something
> this bizarre. And the weirdest thing is that except for all
> this I keep
> running normally.
>
> Any ideas? Thanks for your help.
>
> Pablo Silva
>
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Message-ID: <002c01bead09$1db589a0$03ebedd2@a.computer>
From: Kanata Motohashi
To: Csound Mailing List
References: <199906010553.HAA27027@klee.iamexwi.unibe.ch> <3753A5BC.FDD690AD@swol.de> <3753A58C.BB60705D@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: "Patch librarian"
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:03:38 +0900
Organization: Stand Alone Records
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How about there!
http://fly.to/saynomore
Kanata Motohashi
----- Original Message -----
From: pete moss
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: "Patch librarian"
> i am also interested in midi fader controllers. does anyone know of a
> good online resource that would contain info on several faders,
> including price? i would like to get a simple one to mess around
with.
>
> pete
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From: Jim Smitherman
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: wcshell crashes
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:08:43 -0500
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speaking of crashes, i'd avoided bringing this up for some reason, but there
it is: the last several iterations of winsound ALways crash upon exit, for
me. never fails that norton crash guard asks me if I want to let it down
gently. reason I bring it up, finally last night it crashed without me
shutting it down, which scared me.
so, csound in win 98 crashes, is there any hope?? or will there always be
garbage cleanup after running winsound?
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Message-ID: <37555021.E2CDB951@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:39:14 -0700
From: Prent Rodgers
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To: Csound List
Subject: Approaches to Composition
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All,
I use Csound to create music. I start with a midi keyboard connected to
a computer program that maps the 12 tones of the keyboard to an
arbitrary range of pitches, mostly based on Just Intonation. I noodle
around until I find something interesting, then write it down on music
manuscript paper. Then I transcribe it into a text file input to a macro
preprocessor I wrote, which creates Csound input files. The Macro
processor supports my compositional esthetic, which is based on
improvisation. I map decisions that a musician would make while
improvising with other musicians into indeterminant calculations, then
repeat.
What I would like to see is the ability to map these actions into a
visual representation of computer generated performers on a screen, kind
of like MTV for the cyber set. Take a look at some VRML demos at
http://ligwww.epfl.ch/~babski/StandardBody/mpeg4/mpeg4.html . Wouldn't
it be interesting if the improvisations that result in Csound
realizations in .wav files could be rendered as VRML musicians playing
on imaginary instruments?
Prent Rodgers
Mercer Island, WA
"Its cold, but its a damp cold."
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From: Jim Smitherman
To: prodgers@ibm.net, Csound List
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Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 23:03:46 -0500
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> http://ligwww.epfl.ch/~babski/StandardBody/mpeg4/mpeg4.html . Wouldn't
url did not compute for me. please advise.
there is music to be had, within all this, I hear you in improvisation . .
check out _common music_ for algoRIthms. I am only an egg.
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Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:28:45 -0700
From: Tobiah
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To: Csound List
Subject: What? Not another environment variable!
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I have been thinking about managing score data. I have
been toying around with using an SQL database to house the
data in. I thought that it would be a good idea, because
it would allow different score generation programs from
different segments or tracks of a piece to easily examine
and depend on previously generated segments.
After writing the surrounding data I/O routines for a
simple notelist database model, I decided that the task
may not benefit from the services of the database engine
to the degree that other bodies of data do. There is
really only one way to write a note for Csound, and there
is not much else to be done on the acquisition side other
than to grab a given list of notes, and process them in
some way in main memory.
The ever comfortable text file again (happily) took it's
throne in my mind as the best method of storage for score
data. Now I have only to find a way to embellish my methods
for reading and organizing score data in order to claim
the benefits that I envisioned would come from the database
server.
I tend to use a Csound score as part of the *synthesis*
rather than for just an event scheduler. Often it is
difficult to decide which is happening, when events
exhibit a periodicity of say, 10 per second. The scores
can become very large. They are sometimes more akin to
soundfiles in that they are very large lists of floating
point data. Convolve or pvoc analysis files would be
counterparts. A common occurrence is for one program to
read in a score file generated by another, and to process
or respond to that data in some way in order to write it's
own score for its own sound module.
For sound files, and analysis data there are special
directories sought through when they are required. SADIR,
and so forth. This is immensely useful when a set of
pieces is maintained over the course of a long time, and
across different physical drives or machines. It allows
many pieces to easily share libraries of input sound files,
and allows one to keep these large files out of the way
so that the programs that generate the sound can be backed
up, and multiple revisions of them can be maintained without
having to worry about disk space.
I am proposing a similar convention for score data. If
my score generation programs knew where to look for a score
with a given name regardless of how the hierarchy of my
piece's directory structure may have changed, then I could
avoid much tedious maintenance editing as my piece moves
from shapeless to complex and interdependent amongst itself.
I also propose a new standard location for orchestras,
(after the current directory of course) only because it
would be very handy for maintaining a library of instruments
to be #included from the main orc.
How about:
$SCODIR - The alternate score search path
$ORCDIR - The alternate orchestra search path
Toby
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From: Michael Rhoades
To: Csound List
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Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:16:02 -0500
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> > With this wonderful tool, many have
> > >simply expanded on previous styles or approaches.
> many have. I've enjoyed to the nth all the csound files I've found on the
> net, listening to over and over again. wonderfull. but, yes, they are
> (mainly) explorations of the sound, rather that compositions per se. we
can
> be DRUNK on the sound, though, and I think that is a problem . . joy of
> sound, is not necessarily joy of music itself. a step, to be sure.
>
> The medium also asks for something else, some new thing, something
> unimaginable, a new way of putting together. My own way, is to sit, and
> play my heart out. Midi and score processing, can enable edit, all that,
> touch this, tweak that, fix this . in the end, some illuminating musical
> light will arise that will glow with all these incredible techniques these
> machines enable. and, it will seem so simple, so obvious. after it's
done.
> message ends.
I agree completely.
When the Piano or say the Electric Guitar was invented that was the
first thing that happened. The new "tool" was used to rehash the existing
musical style. However, each tool went on to revolutionize the musical style
of the time. Csound is the new tool....a tool that enables us to compose in
a style that has never before been possible. The catch is that this new
style has to be not only technologically appealing but also pleasing to the
ear. Bach was very techno in his compositions, but people loved to hear the
results of that also. This, to me, is a truely complete composition. One
that challenges the intellect and stirs the soul.
That is our fortunate challenge. What a great time to be alive as a
composer!!
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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:55:21 +0200
To: Csound list
From: rasmus ekman
Subject: vote: Re: What? Not another environment variable!
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I think this is a good idea.
At 09.28 99-06-02, Tobiah wrote:
>
>For sound files, and analysis data there are special
>directories sought through when they are required.
>
>I am proposing a similar convention for score data.
>I also propose a new standard location for orchestras,
>How about:
>
> $SCODIR - The alternate score search path
> $ORCDIR - The alternate orchestra search path
(But aren't your suggested names a little too uncompacted,
they somehow go against the Csound Tacit Coding Standard;
perhaps... ahem, nevermind).
re
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From: Jim Smitherman
To: Csound List
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Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 04:46:50 -0500
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i think of myself as not too stupid. that is, I am open to new revisions of
thought and purpose. I fear though, after a number of years of such kinds
of clothing for an emporere, and espcially after reading yet more remarks on
a compositionaly 'language' . . . .
I confess: I am just an old time piano picker. I only have IQ of 200 or
so, and so all these things pass me by, the objects, the this, the lovely
discontinuously interactviley coded libations of serendipiptous salacious
stuff. I'd love to generate all that sort of algrithmic stuff too, all that
GOD help us all STUFF, that sounds just so sweet, in the end, and don't hou
know, and, after all.
never thought I'd be antidiesablistionmentary. but there it is. can we
take these nested geraniums, these horror come lately algrithms, these wordy
THINGS, and make music??
I reckon some can, and there is where the future leaves me away . . some
can, but I cannot, I don't have degrees in C_++ and nested structures, and
iterative functions, and all that relaly (really) PURTY sounding kind of
thing. I want to, though. I really do, to shore up my nothing here to fore
music kind of knowlege, nothing at all. no java, no objects. just notes.
(never thought I'd be a musical redneck . . well . . I'm not, I'm just
saying, hey, I'm an ignorant nothing with just two degrees in music, and 40
years experience, and this stuff sounds like the face of mars to me. just
thought I'd try to refresh the lot.
flame away, if you need.
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Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 15:56:33 -0700
From: "Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant"
Message-Id: <199906022256.PAA08598@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, jts1@iamerica.net
Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
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Hey dude,
No need fer ya to get a degree in computer science like I did
( although now I can finnally program my VCR ) just ask sum
questions or cut -n- paste stuff U C here
>Disclaimer: While I am an NASA contractor, all opinions expressed are my own,
> and do not reflect the position of NASA, NETCOM, or Zippy the Pinhead.
>============================================================================
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Message-ID: <000601bead53$a3750a80$ec9f2599@default>
From: Michael Rhoades
To: Csound List
References: <001501beac9f$0f095540$189a170c@default> <000e01bead09$ba8bfd40$c83765cf@isengardii> <001d01bead1b$99a37060$159f2599@default> <010901beada6$148fd720$cc3765cf@isengardii>
Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 18:57:08 -0500
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I sincerely hope I did not offend. I originally asked the question
because I am facinated with the different ways people work with their
creative endevours. My creative outlet definately does not preclude any
other. In fact, I am not even sure the pieces I compose are worth anything
to anyone. I am driven to work a certain way and, like anyone else, I have
to follow my creative urges or I'd probably go insane. However, one way I
learn and expand my way of working is by seeing what others are thinking and
doing. I really appreciate your input and again I am sorry if I stepped on
your toes.
BTW... I am an electrical engineering technician with very little
formal musical or programming training at all, although I have been
composing in more "traditional" ways for over 15 years now. I have been
learning how to use csound on my own for about a year. It's a very slow
process studying computer music texts, the Csound manual, tutorials, various
computer music compositions and the postings here. But the precise control
it gives me over the instruments and the composition is a life long dream
come true making it all worthwhile. :)
> i think of myself as not too stupid. that is, I am open to new revisions
of
> thought and purpose. I fear though, after a number of years of such kinds
> of clothing for an emporere, and espcially after reading yet more remarks
on
> a compositionaly 'language' . . . .
>
> I confess: I am just an old time piano picker. I only have IQ of 200 or
> so, and so all these things pass me by, the objects, the this, the lovely
> discontinuously interactviley coded libations of serendipiptous salacious
> stuff. I'd love to generate all that sort of algrithmic stuff too, all
that
> GOD help us all STUFF, that sounds just so sweet, in the end, and don't
hou
> know, and, after all.
>
> never thought I'd be antidiesablistionmentary. but there it is. can we
> take these nested geraniums, these horror come lately algrithms, these
wordy
> THINGS, and make music??
>
> I reckon some can, and there is where the future leaves me away . . some
> can, but I cannot, I don't have degrees in C_++ and nested structures,
and
> iterative functions, and all that relaly (really) PURTY sounding kind of
> thing. I want to, though. I really do, to shore up my nothing here to
fore
> music kind of knowlege, nothing at all. no java, no objects. just notes.
> (never thought I'd be a musical redneck . . well . . I'm not, I'm just
> saying, hey, I'm an ignorant nothing with just two degrees in music, and
40
> years experience, and this stuff sounds like the face of mars to me. just
> thought I'd try to refresh the lot.
>
> flame away, if you need.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Tobiah , Csound List
Subject: Re: What? Not another environment variable!
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 20:00:49 -0400
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You may wish to use, or to examine, Silence, a system for algorithmic
composition that uses Csound for synthesis
(http://www.pipeline.com/~gogins). Silence stores all score data in memory
in the form of a "music graph," a tree of nodes (elements of music). Nodes
can be individual notes, groups of notes, score generating processes,
transformations of notes, random variables, and more, including direct
operations on pitch-class sets.
Silence stores its files as Extensible Markup Language (XML), that is to
say, hierarchically organized, tagged text files. If you do not use Silence
you may still wish to experiment with XML or other ways of hierarchically
tagging text. This can be as simple as
i 1 2 3 4 5
i 1 2 3 4 5
i 2 2 3 4 5
i 3 3 3 4 8
Using XML theoretically permits one to include all the elements of a piece
(including the Csound orchestra file, audio samples, etc.) in one nested
file. The Csound "csd" file is one example of such a use of XML.
I too tried the database method, but the hierarchical representation is a
better fit to the composer's procedures, and a modern PC has more than
enough memory for the biggest score plus all the things you want to do to
it; the database method is much slower for the tens to hundreds of thousands
of events in a big piece.
If you don't want to mess with Silence, or to write your own tree manager,
then use a Midi sequence or notation software, export sequences, and render
them with Csound. Good sequencers now support some of the same hierarchical
modeling (looping, etc.) that Silence does. You can write Csound instruments
to use Midi sequences directly, or you can translate the Midi sequences into
regular Csound scores first (Silence will do that also).
-----Original Message-----
From: Tobiah
To: Csound List
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 12:25 PM
Subject: What? Not another environment variable!
>
>I have been thinking about managing score data. I have
>been toying around with using an SQL database to house the
>data in. I thought that it would be a good idea, because
>it would allow different score generation programs from
>different segments or tracks of a piece to easily examine
>and depend on previously generated segments.
>
>After writing the surrounding data I/O routines for a
>simple notelist database model, I decided that the task
>may not benefit from the services of the database engine
>to the degree that other bodies of data do. There is
>really only one way to write a note for Csound, and there
>is not much else to be done on the acquisition side other
>than to grab a given list of notes, and process them in
>some way in main memory.
>
>The ever comfortable text file again (happily) took it's
>throne in my mind as the best method of storage for score
>data. Now I have only to find a way to embellish my methods
>for reading and organizing score data in order to claim
>the benefits that I envisioned would come from the database
>server.
>
>I tend to use a Csound score as part of the *synthesis*
>rather than for just an event scheduler. Often it is
>difficult to decide which is happening, when events
>exhibit a periodicity of say, 10 per second. The scores
>can become very large. They are sometimes more akin to
>soundfiles in that they are very large lists of floating
>point data. Convolve or pvoc analysis files would be
>counterparts. A common occurrence is for one program to
>read in a score file generated by another, and to process
>or respond to that data in some way in order to write it's
>own score for its own sound module.
>
>For sound files, and analysis data there are special
>directories sought through when they are required. SADIR,
>and so forth. This is immensely useful when a set of
>pieces is maintained over the course of a long time, and
>across different physical drives or machines. It allows
>many pieces to easily share libraries of input sound files,
>and allows one to keep these large files out of the way
>so that the programs that generate the sound can be backed
>up, and multiple revisions of them can be maintained without
>having to worry about disk space.
>
>I am proposing a similar convention for score data. If
>my score generation programs knew where to look for a score
>with a given name regardless of how the hierarchy of my
>piece's directory structure may have changed, then I could
>avoid much tedious maintenance editing as my piece moves
>from shapeless to complex and interdependent amongst itself.
>
>I also propose a new standard location for orchestras,
>(after the current directory of course) only because it
>would be very handy for maintaining a library of instruments
>to be #included from the main orc.
>
>How about:
>
> $SCODIR - The alternate score search path
> $ORCDIR - The alternate orchestra search path
>
>Toby
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From: Jim Smitherman
To: Csound List
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Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 07:56:59 -0500
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NO NO, I hope myself that I didn't offend. no offense taken, I hope none
given.
it's a crucial subject, and I simply letting off steam. sorry if I
offended.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Rhoades
To: Csound List
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
> I sincerely hope I did not offend. I originally asked the question
> because I am facinated with the different ways people work with their
> creative endevours. My creative outlet definately does not preclude any
> other. In fact, I am not even sure the pieces I compose are worth anything
> to anyone. I am driven to work a certain way and, like anyone else, I have
> to follow my creative urges or I'd probably go insane. However, one way I
> learn and expand my way of working is by seeing what others are thinking
and
> doing. I really appreciate your input and again I am sorry if I stepped on
> your toes.
> BTW... I am an electrical engineering technician with very little
> formal musical or programming training at all, although I have been
> composing in more "traditional" ways for over 15 years now. I have been
> learning how to use csound on my own for about a year. It's a very slow
> process studying computer music texts, the Csound manual, tutorials,
various
> computer music compositions and the postings here. But the precise control
> it gives me over the instruments and the composition is a life long dream
> come true making it all worthwhile. :)
>
> > i think of myself as not too stupid. that is, I am open to new
revisions
> of
> > thought and purpose. I fear though, after a number of years of such
kinds
> > of clothing for an emporere, and espcially after reading yet more
remarks
> on
> > a compositionaly 'language' . . . .
> >
> > I confess: I am just an old time piano picker. I only have IQ of 200
or
> > so, and so all these things pass me by, the objects, the this, the
lovely
> > discontinuously interactviley coded libations of serendipiptous
salacious
> > stuff. I'd love to generate all that sort of algrithmic stuff too, all
> that
> > GOD help us all STUFF, that sounds just so sweet, in the end, and don't
> hou
> > know, and, after all.
> >
> > never thought I'd be antidiesablistionmentary. but there it is. can we
> > take these nested geraniums, these horror come lately algrithms, these
> wordy
> > THINGS, and make music??
> >
> > I reckon some can, and there is where the future leaves me away . . some
> > can, but I cannot, I don't have degrees in C_++ and nested structures,
> and
> > iterative functions, and all that relaly (really) PURTY sounding kind of
> > thing. I want to, though. I really do, to shore up my nothing here to
> fore
> > music kind of knowlege, nothing at all. no java, no objects. just
notes.
> > (never thought I'd be a musical redneck . . well . . I'm not, I'm just
> > saying, hey, I'm an ignorant nothing with just two degrees in music, and
> 40
> > years experience, and this stuff sounds like the face of mars to me.
just
> > thought I'd try to refresh the lot.
> >
> > flame away, if you need.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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From: Jim Smitherman
To: Csound List
References: <001501beac9f$0f095540$189a170c@default> <000e01bead09$ba8bfd40$c83765cf@isengardii> <001d01bead1b$99a37060$159f2599@default> <010901beada6$148fd720$cc3765cf@isengardii> <000601bead53$a3750a80$ec9f2599@default>
Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
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From: Jim Smitherman
To: Michael Gogins , Tobiah ,
Csound List
References: <001c01bead54$2623efa0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Subject: Re: What? Not another environment variable!
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:17:16 -0500
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this just arrived as I was writing the below stuff (there is the time
factor, the time domain in computer music . . the last shall be first, first
last . . )
>>Historically, the creation of musical instruments has always been a
separate action from the composition and (generally)composition a separate
action from performance and performance separate from recording and
recording separate from mastering and etc. A new form of music is emerging
from a joining of all these actions into one. Csound and "computer music" in
general facilitates this nicely. This new form involves creating a recording
in much the same way an author creates a book or a painter a painting. The
recording is the art.>>
the recording IS indeed the art. I revel in this. I relished your message
Michael. I have romance vis all this stuff. I'm an old man (47) yet young
in computer music . . I hope. And when I chanced upon Csound, well . . . I
thought, here is something for all of us. rock on. >>>>>>theory ends.
________________
I'm reading M Gogins site (i've kept up with your stuff for several years
now Michael, thank you for efforts), and his remarks are what led me to yet
more rant: (blame HIM HIM!!!): I have memories, as a young musician, of
standing in the library at my undergrad U, and reading Hiller's Illiac
Suite, there, in the rows, looking at these notes put out by computer (no
kidding, literal memory of reading the notes standing therehmmm m m m m m
m ) . . and this memory is from way back, circa '75. I remember thinking,
ok, it's notes of music. it has a syntax. and NO buts. none. except:
well . . . . . . the guy who wrote the algorithm, Hiller, was in fact the
guy who wrote the music. Right?? the soul of the machine is the soul of
the man (or woman). If I tell my hands to play certain configurations, they
are acting upon an algorithm. this is of course rot-gut simple, please bear
with me . . they are, yet they are not. simple, algorithms, but my hands
have knowledge from decades, that my mouth cannot articulate. hmmm. I
sense in myself depths of problems of music, and yet I have no way to
articulate them, aside from the 'traditional' ways. I am a trad musician,
who loves and adores any way you can come at sound and silence. If I can be
of service (I do have fairly decent playing mechanisms) please let me know.
i suppose I need to reinstall yet again, the java files, so I can continue
to explore M Goggins neewst iterations of Silence. Jeesus, man, it just
never stops. It really doesn't stop, music is never ending.
On a personal note, if I may, I think many of you will understand: Robert
Cooper was my friend at LSU, we were both grad students. both very bald
(hey rob, i know you know). He and I jammed together (hey, my real book was
copied from his . . ) his enthusiam for all this stuff rubbed off on me, as
a grad student. He and I sat together and talked about all this stuff (he
was particularly interested at the time in tunings beyond 12 TET). I
remember him with honor, the classes we shared, the debates we had, the
music we talked. We have all of us only a little time. may we make the
best of it.
Jim
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Jim Smitherman , Tobiah ,
Csound List
Subject: Re: What? Not another environment variable!
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:56:06 -0400
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Regarding the tacit knowledge, the algorithms in the player's hands that
can't be spelled out in all detail...
I can't say I'm good at composing with pencil and paper as most
conservatory-trained composers do, or even by overdubbing tracks as many
songwriters and pop musicians do. This is because (take your pick) either I
don't have the required talent, or I didn't put in the time required to
really learn those methods. Instead I was busy with algorithmic
composition... which I always seemed to be better at than the other kind.
What I have found is:
If I do have compositional talent, it seems to be peculiarly focused around
algorithmic composition.
Composing with algorithms produces music that I do not know how to imagine,
but I feel that I have good enough taste and judgment to select what is good
and reject what is bad, and to polish what is good if there are rough
corners sticking out. To make the point stronger, I believe that the whole
reason to use algorithms is that they do what I can't imagine; if I could
imagine what they would dol, I wouldn't need them.
At the same time, I have a sense of the beauty of the algorithms, or the
mathematics underlying them, that is independent of music, but seems roughly
correlated with the beauty and interest of the music produced by the
algorithms.
The whole business is like having beautiful maps (the mathematics and the
algorithms) that record far more about the world than I know (from my
half-finished musical education), but to get anywhere I have go in and
explore the country (generate lots of stuff), after which it is apparent
where the good spots really are (the sketches or unfinished renderings that
excite my taste); I then take pictures (make finished renderings of the
pieces) making sure to omit telephone poles, angry farmers, etc (edit out
infelicities).
Unlike many computer musicians, I am strongly fascinated by traditional
classical music (3 Bs, etc.), I work almost exclusively in 12-tone equal
temperament, and harmony and large-scale form strike me as being very
important. In spite of (or because of) my weakness in the conservatory
tradition, I am developing transformations and algorithms that work with
scales, chords, progressions (pitch-class sets).
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Smitherman
To: Michael Gogins ; Tobiah ;
Csound List
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: What? Not another environment variable!
>this just arrived as I was writing the below stuff (there is the time
>factor, the time domain in computer music . . the last shall be first,
first
>last . . )
>
>>>Historically, the creation of musical instruments has always been a
>separate action from the composition and (generally)composition a separate
>action from performance and performance separate from recording and
>recording separate from mastering and etc. A new form of music is emerging
>from a joining of all these actions into one. Csound and "computer music"
in
>general facilitates this nicely. This new form involves creating a
recording
>in much the same way an author creates a book or a painter a painting. The
>recording is the art.>>
>
>the recording IS indeed the art. I revel in this. I relished your message
>Michael. I have romance vis all this stuff. I'm an old man (47) yet young
>in computer music . . I hope. And when I chanced upon Csound, well . . .
I
>thought, here is something for all of us. rock on. >>>>>>theory ends.
>________________
>
>
>I'm reading M Gogins site (i've kept up with your stuff for several years
>now Michael, thank you for efforts), and his remarks are what led me to yet
>more rant: (blame HIM HIM!!!): I have memories, as a young musician, of
>standing in the library at my undergrad U, and reading Hiller's Illiac
>Suite, there, in the rows, looking at these notes put out by computer (no
>kidding, literal memory of reading the notes standing therehmmm m m m m m
>m ) . . and this memory is from way back, circa '75. I remember thinking,
>ok, it's notes of music. it has a syntax. and NO buts. none. except:
>well . . . . . . the guy who wrote the algorithm, Hiller, was in fact the
>guy who wrote the music. Right?? the soul of the machine is the soul of
>the man (or woman). If I tell my hands to play certain configurations,
they
>are acting upon an algorithm. this is of course rot-gut simple, please
bear
>with me . . they are, yet they are not. simple, algorithms, but my hands
>have knowledge from decades, that my mouth cannot articulate. hmmm. I
>sense in myself depths of problems of music, and yet I have no way to
>articulate them, aside from the 'traditional' ways. I am a trad musician,
>who loves and adores any way you can come at sound and silence. If I can
be
>of service (I do have fairly decent playing mechanisms) please let me know.
>
>i suppose I need to reinstall yet again, the java files, so I can continue
>to explore M Goggins neewst iterations of Silence. Jeesus, man, it just
>never stops. It really doesn't stop, music is never ending.
>
>On a personal note, if I may, I think many of you will understand: Robert
>Cooper was my friend at LSU, we were both grad students. both very bald
>(hey rob, i know you know). He and I jammed together (hey, my real book
was
>copied from his . . ) his enthusiam for all this stuff rubbed off on me, as
>a grad student. He and I sat together and talked about all this stuff (he
>was particularly interested at the time in tunings beyond 12 TET). I
>remember him with honor, the classes we shared, the debates we had, the
>music we talked. We have all of us only a little time. may we make the
>best of it.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:02:00 -0600
To: Csound List
Subject: [ot] Re: Appro aches to Com position
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
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>> I want to create adventures with sounds.
>
>that's a truly beautiful espression. I'll keep it as a watchword.
1 k!sch
>there's the problem laddie, ANYTHING is possible. _anything_.
1 beccar!a laddie
>but: it
>always was< it simply wasn't always so _easy to prove _. . . .
2 k!sch wordwatch
>but: it
sch
>always was<
laddie
>it simply
!z
>sch
so
>wasn't
so _easy to prove
>always so _easy to prove _. . . .
!t wh!ch =3D kan b provd =3D worthlesz
>many have.
man have =3D provd worthlesz
>I've enjoyed to the nth all the csound files I've found on the
>net, listening to over and over again. wonderfull.
wonderful
> but, yes, they are
>(mainly) explorations of the sound, rather that compositions per se.
wonderfull
>wonderfull.
wonderful
>wonderfull.
wonder full
>we can
>be DRUNK on the sound,
dze kr!t!kue ov povert!
>though, and I think that is a problem . .
dze amrkn !nfluensz
>joy of
>sound,
dze faz!l!t! ov z!lensz
>is not necessarily joy of music itself. a step, to be sure.
dze d!zkoursz on dze or!g!n + foundaz!on ov !nekual!t! amongzt humanz
>The medium
publ!shd
1755
>also asks for something else,
some new
>some new thing,
all wh!ch
>all wh!ch =3D modrn
=3D b! dzat ver! fakt trad!z!onl
>d.akkord
mahlo kard!nalz
>something
>unimaginable,
mathemat!kx =3D opn endd
>a new way of putting together.
nouvellez leconz sur la soc!etez !nduztr!elle
et aprez _/
\- konztrukt!onz !n spasz
>My own way,
m! po!nt ov v!eu
=3D klearl! ant! zotz!al
>is to sit, and
>play my heart out.
dze propenz!t! 2 dezpa!r !n born kret!n!zm
hered!tar! z!f!l!z dze !nztab!l!t! ov dze !nzt!nktz
2 prevent dzose predezt!nd 4 po!zon - dze whatevr 4rm.
dze po!zn ov morf!en. dze po!zn ov read!ng. dze po!zon ov lon!l!nesz.
dze po!zn ov onan!n!zm. dze po!zn ov zeczual ovr!ndulgensz
dze po!zn ov kongen!tl weaknesz.
ko!tuz !nteruptuz
on jup!tr abov a h!gh alt!tud ov haze la!er komposzd ov amon!a
!sz prt!klz dze zk! =3D 1 hue ov blak
batal!on no!r
publ!k stat!k !nt x2frakt(float f)
{
re+turn (!nt)(f * 1.073742e+09f);
}
>Midi and score processing, can enable edit, all that,
>touch this, tweak that, fix this .
dze konzp!raz! ov ekualz
publ!k stat!k b!te[] ztr!ng2pztr!ng(ztr!ng s, !nt !)
{
!nt j =3D s.length() <=3D ! ? s.length() : ! <=3D 255 ? ! : 255;
b!te ab!te0[] =3D neu b!te[j + 1];
ab!te0[0] =3D (b!te)j;
b!te ab!te1[] =3D s.getb!tez();
z!stem.arraycopy(ab!te1, 0, ab!te0, 1, j);
re+turn ab!te0;
}
>in the end,
dze prematur ant!z!paz!on
>some illuminating musical
dze rel!g!on ov ev!densz
>light will arise
dze pale blu dot
>that will glow with all these incredible techniques these
>machines enable.
dze kap!tal de la deuleur
-
-
-
>after it's done.
>message ends.
dze epok ov human dom! naz! on !n wh!ch 1 =3D kould enterta!n 0+1 end
pax. amer!kkana - jumbo s!szd bra!n wash+!ng
=3Dcw4t7abs =3D !ndztruktabl. f!zkl klar!t!. azf!x!at!ng. naturl.
!mmob!l.
s!lansz.
bonheur.
f!ssure.
fsch.fsch. shame determ!nz 1nz akt!onz. zont blague.
>=3Dcw4t7abs wrote:
>4,s0l||||||||s0l||||||||||s0l5s0l||||||||||||||s0l||||s0l||||||||||||||s0=
=3D
SS 0 L 2 R
0 : 0 : 12
0 : 0 : 32
0 : 0 : 34 ever!dz!ng wh!ch dekoratez l!fe =3D 4mat!v. 1 !ntocz!kat!on.
0 : 0 : 56
0 : 0 : 87 tel : 742.21.34 : man!feztat!onz ov dze nervouz + muzkulr z!st=
em
0 : 1 : 09
0 : 1 : 90
et aprez _/
\- konztrukt!onz !n spasz
mot!vatd.adapt!v.bhav!our =3D funda.mentl 2 !ntell!genss
--learn!ng bhav!ourz - 3 parad!gmz (c.note 1)
-s!ngl.st!muluz.prezentat!on
-ekzposur. 2 relat!onz among. st!mul!
et aprez _/
-ekzposur. 2 relat!onz b.tween rezpons.z +
st!mul! | |
| hab!tuat!on.bhav!ourz
| klass!kl.kond!t!on!ng
!nztrument.l kond!t!on!ng
>and, it will seem so simple, so obvious.
gen!uz =3D z!mpl + obv!ouz eczluz!vl!
gen!uz =3D z!mpl + obv!ouzl! eczluz!v
\ ma! ut!l!ze d!sz zkroll bar 2 zkroll
\ 2 zkroll ma! ut!l!ze d!sz zkroll bar
\ d!sz zkroll bar 2 zkroll ma! ut!l!ze
\ d!sz zkroll bar ma! ut!l!ze 2 zkroll
\ 2 zkroll d!sz ma! ut!l!ze zkroll bar
\ ma! ut!l!ze zkroll bar 2 zkroll d!sz
\ ma! zkroll 2 ut!l!ze d!sz zkroll bar
\ ma! zkroll zkroll bar 2 ut!l!ze d!sz
\ ma! ut!l!ze d!sz 2 zkroll zkroll bar
so simple, so obvious. !nztrument.l kond!t!on!ng.
hab!tuat!on.bhav!ourz. klass!kl.kond!t!on!ng.
|=7F|
|=7F|9|=7F|
[p-un_kT-pr_o-T=96k_oL] =D8 f =D8 =D8 =D8 3 |=7F|
herausgegeben v=F8m !nternat!onalen
!nst!tut f:ur ordnung |+| d!sz!pl!n
: / / m9ndfukc.com
e
|
| +----------
| |
\\----------------+ |
|
e
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Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 00:02:00 -0600
To: Csound List
Subject: [ot] Re: Appro aches to Com position
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Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
>> I want to create adventures with sounds.
>
>that's a truly beautiful espression. I'll keep it as a watchword.
1 k!sch
>there's the problem laddie, ANYTHING is possible. _anything_.
1 beccar!a laddie
>but: it
>always was< it simply wasn't always so _easy to prove _. . . .
2 k!sch wordwatch
>but: it
sch
>always was<
laddie
>it simply
!z
>sch
so
>wasn't
so _easy to prove
>always so _easy to prove _. . . .
!t wh!ch = kan b provd = worthlesz
>many have.
man have = provd worthlesz
>I've enjoyed to the nth all the csound files I've found on the
>net, listening to over and over again. wonderfull.
wonderful
> but, yes, they are
>(mainly) explorations of the sound, rather that compositions per se.
wonderfull
>wonderfull.
wonderful
>wonderfull.
wonder full
>we can
>be DRUNK on the sound,
dze kr!t!kue ov povert!
>though, and I think that is a problem . .
dze amrkn !nfluensz
>joy of
>sound,
dze faz!l!t! ov z!lensz
>is not necessarily joy of music itself. a step, to be sure.
dze d!zkoursz on dze or!g!n + foundaz!on ov !nekual!t! amongzt humanz
>The medium
publ!shd
1755
>also asks for something else,
some new
>some new thing,
all wh!ch
>all wh!ch = modrn
= b! dzat ver! fakt trad!z!onl
>d.akkord
mahlo kard!nalz
>something
>unimaginable,
mathemat!kx = opn endd
>a new way of putting together.
nouvellez leconz sur la soc!etez !nduztr!elle
et aprez _/
\- konztrukt!onz !n spasz
>My own way,
m! po!nt ov v!eu
= klearl! ant! zotz!al
>is to sit, and
>play my heart out.
dze propenz!t! 2 dezpa!r !n born kret!n!zm
hered!tar! z!f!l!z dze !nztab!l!t! ov dze !nzt!nktz
2 prevent dzose predezt!nd 4 po!zon - dze whatevr 4rm.
dze po!zn ov morf!en. dze po!zn ov read!ng. dze po!zon ov lon!l!nesz.
dze po!zn ov onan!n!zm. dze po!zn ov zeczual ovr!ndulgensz
dze po!zn ov kongen!tl weaknesz.
ko!tuz !nteruptuz
on jup!tr abov a h!gh alt!tud ov haze la!er komposzd ov amon!a
!sz prt!klz dze zk! = 1 hue ov blak
batal!on no!r
publ!k stat!k !nt x2frakt(float f)
{
re+turn (!nt)(f * 1.073742e+09f);
}
>Midi and score processing, can enable edit, all that,
>touch this, tweak that, fix this .
dze konzp!raz! ov ekualz
publ!k stat!k b!te[] ztr!ng2pztr!ng(ztr!ng s, !nt !)
{
!nt j = s.length() <= ! ? s.length() : ! <= 255 ? ! : 255;
b!te ab!te0[] = neu b!te[j + 1];
ab!te0[0] = (b!te)j;
b!te ab!te1[] = s.getb!tez();
z!stem.arraycopy(ab!te1, 0, ab!te0, 1, j);
re+turn ab!te0;
}
>in the end,
dze prematur ant!z!paz!on
>some illuminating musical
dze rel!g!on ov ev!densz
>light will arise
dze pale blu dot
>that will glow with all these incredible techniques these
>machines enable.
dze kap!tal de la deuleur
-
-
-
>after it's done.
>message ends.
dze epok ov human dom! naz! on !n wh!ch 1 = kould enterta!n 0+1 end
pax. amer!kkana - jumbo s!szd bra!n wash+!ng
=cw4t7abs = !ndztruktabl. f!zkl klar!t!. azf!x!at!ng. naturl.
!mmob!l.
s!lansz.
bonheur.
f!ssure.
fsch.fsch. shame determ!nz 1nz akt!onz. zont blague.
>=cw4t7abs wrote:
>4,s0l||||||||s0l||||||||||s0l5s0l||||||||||||||s0l||||s0l||||||||||||||s0=
SS 0 L 2 R
0 : 0 : 12
0 : 0 : 32
0 : 0 : 34 ever!dz!ng wh!ch dekoratez l!fe = 4mat!v. 1 !ntocz!kat!on.
0 : 0 : 56
0 : 0 : 87 tel : 742.21.34 : man!feztat!onz ov dze nervouz + muzkulr z!stem
0 : 1 : 09
0 : 1 : 90
et aprez _/
\- konztrukt!onz !n spasz
mot!vatd.adapt!v.bhav!our = funda.mentl 2 !ntell!genss
--learn!ng bhav!ourz - 3 parad!gmz (c.note 1)
-s!ngl.st!muluz.prezentat!on
-ekzposur. 2 relat!onz among. st!mul!
et aprez _/
-ekzposur. 2 relat!onz b.tween rezpons.z +
st!mul! | |
| hab!tuat!on.bhav!ourz
| klass!kl.kond!t!on!ng
!nztrument.l kond!t!on!ng
>and, it will seem so simple, so obvious.
gen!uz = z!mpl + obv!ouz eczluz!vl!
gen!uz = z!mpl + obv!ouzl! eczluz!v
\ ma! ut!l!ze d!sz zkroll bar 2 zkroll
\ 2 zkroll ma! ut!l!ze d!sz zkroll bar
\ d!sz zkroll bar 2 zkroll ma! ut!l!ze
\ d!sz zkroll bar ma! ut!l!ze 2 zkroll
\ 2 zkroll d!sz ma! ut!l!ze zkroll bar
\ ma! ut!l!ze zkroll bar 2 zkroll d!sz
\ ma! zkroll 2 ut!l!ze d!sz zkroll bar
\ ma! zkroll zkroll bar 2 ut!l!ze d!sz
\ ma! ut!l!ze d!sz 2 zkroll zkroll bar
so simple, so obvious. !nztrument.l kond!t!on!ng.
hab!tuat!on.bhav!ourz. klass!kl.kond!t!on!ng.
||
||9||
[p-un_kT-pr_o-Tk_oL] f 3 ||
herausgegeben vm !nternat!onalen
!nst!tut f:ur ordnung |+| d!sz!pl!n
: / / m9ndfukc.com
e
|
| +----------
| |
\\----------------+ |
|
e
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
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Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:28:05 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Thomas Huber
Subject: Strange 'tanh' bug on Linux
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-id: <199906030728.JAA08492@klee.iamexwi.unibe.ch>
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Hi,
I have to nerve you with another strangeness I found: On Linux,
'tanh' does not what it's supposed to do:
Could anyone try out the following orc/sco and run without '-d'
option, so you can see the displayed waveform ?
For me, when 'tanh' is used to distort the sine, a extremely
strange 'spike-output' is the result. The second version,
using tanh as (exp(x)-exp(-x))/(exp(x)+exp(-x))
(thats how tanh is defined!), however, works as expected
(and also sounds that way).
Another strangeness is, that when I set kr=44100, ksmps=1,
both versions work ok...
Thomas
;score
f1 0 512 10 1 ; Sinus
t 0 80
i1 0 0.5
i1 0.8 0.5
i1 1 0.2
e
;orchestra
sr = 44100
kr = 441
ksmps = 100
nchnls = 1
instr 1
kgate adsr 0.2,0.5,0.8,0.5
asrc oscili 5*kgate, 500, 1
; does produce strange spikes
adist1 = tanh(asrc)
; works as expected
adist2 = (exp(asrc)-exp(-asrc))/(exp(asrc)+exp(-asrc))
;display the output
display adist1,0.05
display adist2,0.05
; out 15000*adist1
out 15000*adist2
endin;
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Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 07:18:09 -0400
From: Dave Phillips
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To: Thomas Huber
CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Strange 'tanh' bug on Linux
References: <199906030728.JAA08492@klee.iamexwi.unibe.ch>
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Thomas Huber wrote:
> I have to nerve you with another strangeness I found: On Linux,
> 'tanh' does not what it's supposed to do:
>
> Could anyone try out the following orc/sco and run without '-d'
> option, so you can see the displayed waveform ?
Thomas, I ran it in X trying each 'out' statement. Ouput appearance and
sound was the same in both cases. I'm using the unofficial Linux
distribution 3.54.0.0c.
== Dave Phillips
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html
http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Linux-soundapp/linux_soundapps.html |