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Older Computer Music Languages

Date1999-06-04 19:42
FromSean Costello
SubjectOlder Computer Music Languages
Hi all:

I am looking for information on older computer music languages. I just received
a copy of "The Technology of Computer Music" by Max Mathews et al, which has a
detailed description of the workings of Music 5. Is the source code for Music 5
available anywhere online? Or would I need a punch card reader?

Anyway, I am looking for the source code of any relevant computer music
languages (well, any computer languages that are programmed in a higher level
language, like Fortran, as opposed to assembler). In addition, I am interested
in any technical information about older computer music languages, such as Music
11 and Music 360. I am considering implementing some of the older Music 11
ugens, such as pipad and pipadv, into Csound, so that older Music 11 orchestras
can be easily implemented today. Pointers to user manuals, relevant articles,
etc. would be great.

Ideally, it would be great to develop software that would be able to generate
music from files written for any of the classic Music-N languages, as well as
variants like the Samson box and other in-house computer music environments. I
would like to think that the computer music works of years past could still be
compiled today.

Thanks,

Sean Costello


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From: David Matthews 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:07:06 GMT
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I like your point about the conceptual process of electroacoustic music not 
being fundamentally different from that of instrumental music.  A professor 
I had once pointed out to me that she noticed that whenever people discuss a 
piece of electroacoustic music, they always discuss the technology (hardware 
and software) and technical means used to realize the piece, whereas 
whenever people discusss an unfamiliar piece of instruemental music, they 
always discuss the aesthetic or compositional techniques.  Discussions of 
compositional technique/aesthetics seem to be far less common when it comes 
to electroacoustic music.  (It's always, "So how did you get that sound? 
What platform are you using?")  I'm pretty new to CSound, but I've been 
composing in both the electroacoustic and instrumental media for about ten 
years now.  Most of my work tends to blur boundaries - I love applying sound 
processing concepts from synthesis to the instrumental realm, and scoring 
for mixed ensembles.


>From: SME 
>Reply-To: smeroma@tin.it
>To: Michael Rhoades 
>CC: Csound List 
>Subject: Re: Approaches to Composition
>Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:24:58 +0200
>
>Hello Michael, hello all Csounders,
>
>as a composer and a computer music professor since 25 years, I can tell
>there's no unique answer.
>The fact is, Csound is mainly a tool, not a compositional software
>(provided that such a thing can exist!).
>I am conviced there's no main difference between thinking a piece for
>instruments and a piece for electroacoustics.
>I mean, the first idea of a new piece always begins in the brain (or
>heart, the one you like better), and only when it takes a "physical"
>form I can see a difference. To me, music is "what", media are "how".
>Clearly, the "how" can modify the "what", but the original idea is left
>unchanged, even if it can take different forms.
>Coming to Csound, as I like the maximum of control over the score, I
>make little use of the "automatic generation" features of the language.
>I prefer to write my own score-generation program(s) (usually in Visual
>Basic).
>The most important thing, to me, is that with a set of tools like Csound
>and related software (soundfiles editor, general purpose programming
>languages and so on) we can really have a close contact with the sound.
>
>
>Michael Rhoades wrote:
> >
> > Hello All,
> >      We have a great programming language (getting better all the time)
> > which gives nearly unlimited technical ability in the composition of 
>music.
> > We have the machines capable of rendering these programs to sound files. 
>The
> > question then becomes, what to compose. What are your compositional
> > attitudes, approaches or techniques? What direction has inspiration sent
> > you?
> > What are your plans for the future? With this wonderful tool, many have
> > simply expanded on previous styles or approaches. One has to wonder what
> > truly new direction we will take. It's up to us to decide, we are 
>presently
> > the future of music.
> >     I am curious to see your comments.
> >
> > Michael Rhoades
>
>--
>***********************************
>* Scuola di Musica elettronica    *
>* Conservatorio "S.Cecilia", Roma *
>* prof. Riccardo Bianchini        *
>*                                 *
>* http://space.tin.it/musica/ilipc*
>***********************************
>


______________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:42:47 -0700
From: Sean Costello 
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Hi all:

I am looking for information on older computer music languages. I just received
a copy of "The Technology of Computer Music" by Max Mathews et al, which has a
detailed description of the workings of Music 5. Is the source code for Music 5
available anywhere online? Or would I need a punch card reader?

Anyway, I am looking for the source code of any relevant computer music
languages (well, any computer languages that are programmed in a higher level
language, like Fortran, as opposed to assembler). In addition, I am interested
in any technical information about older computer music languages, such as Music
11 and Music 360. I am considering implementing some of the older Music 11
ugens, such as pipad and pipadv, into Csound, so that older Music 11 orchestras
can be easily implemented today. Pointers to user manuals, relevant articles,
etc. would be great.

Ideally, it would be great to develop software that would be able to generate
music from files written for any of the classic Music-N languages, as well as
variants like the Samson box and other in-house computer music environments. I
would like to think that the computer music works of years past could still be
compiled today.

Thanks,

Sean Costello

dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html



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Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 00:07:21 +0200
From: Josep M Comajuncosas 
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Subject: Higher numerical precission in Csound
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Hi all the programmers,
I=B4m currently developing some physical models and in order to implement
them in Csound it should work using 32bit floating point but better
64bit floats. Would it be possible to have such numerical resolution as
an option maybe? This is crucial for my project.
Thanks in advance!

--
Josep M Comajuncosas
C/ Circumval.lacio 75  08790 Gelida - Penedes
Catalunya - SPAIN
home phone : 93 7792243 / 00 34 3 7792243

Csound page at http://members.tripod.com/csound/




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Josep M Comajuncosas wrote:
> 
> them in Csound it should work using 32bit floating point but better
> 64bit floats. Would it be possible to have such numerical resolution 

Declare your variables as double - I think you'll get 
80 bits on many systems. It's only the opcode in/out 
arguments which are limited to floats.

Regards,

	re


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What do you listers know about cmusic?

Is there anything like Next musickit for linux?

Thanks.


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From: Michael Gogins 
To: Josep M Comajuncosas , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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I again move for the canonical Csound build to use double-precision float=
ing
point numbers for all real numbers. I would add also to use 32-bit signed
ints for all integers (unless there is a need for 64 bits).

-----Original Message-----
From: Josep M Comajuncosas 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk 
Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 6:12 PM
Subject: Higher numerical precission in Csound


Hi all the programmers,
I=B4m currently developing some physical models and in order to implement
them in Csound it should work using 32bit floating point but better
64bit floats. Would it be possible to have such numerical resolution as
an option maybe? This is crucial for my project.
Thanks in advance!

--
Josep M Comajuncosas
C/ Circumval.lacio 75  08790 Gelida - Penedes
Catalunya - SPAIN
home phone : 93 7792243 / 00 34 3 7792243

Csound page at http://members.tripod.com/csound/





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To: Csound 
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:58:11 EDT."
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Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 19:27:06 -0700
From: Ed Hall 
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"Michael Gogins"  wrote:
> I again move for the canonical Csound build to use double-precision flo=
ating
> point numbers for all real numbers. I would add also to use 32-bit sign=
ed
> ints for all integers (unless there is a need for 64 bits).

Ouch!  Except in limited circumstances, is there any perceivable gain
from doubling the size of virtually all data in Csound?  Not only does
it greatly increase memory requirements, but on many architectures 64-bit=

FP computations are significantly slower.  Main memories have certainly
grown enough to support larger data in the past few years, but all-import=
ant
cache memories have not--halving the number of cachable data elements is
going to hit performance pretty hard even if the CPU is as fast for 64-bi=
t
FP as 32-bit.

I'd like to have an option for 64-bit floating point (especially if it
can be requested on a per-variable and per-table basis), but burdening
Csound with a 64-bit default seems entirely unnecessary.

		-Ed





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Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:28:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Philip Aker 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound
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Dear Canonical,

8 byte doubles would be real peachy for Macintosh as well.


Philip

Philip Aker
philip@vcn.bc.ca


On Fri, 4 Jun 1999, Michael Gogins wrote:

}I again move for the canonical Csound build to use double-precision floa=
ting
}point numbers for all real numbers. I would add also to use 32-bit signe=
d
}ints for all integers (unless there is a need for 64 bits).
}
}-----Original Message-----
}From: Josep M Comajuncosas 

}I=B4m currently developing some physical models and in order to implemen=
t
}them in Csound it should work using 32bit floating point but better
}64bit floats. Would it be possible to have such numerical resolution as
}an option maybe? This is crucial for my project.



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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Hi,

Maybe it would make most sense to create double precision opcodes where they
are needed, if that is possible.

Bye,
Hans Mikelson