| Message written at 4 Sep 1999 11:37:44 +0100
I think a more interesting point would be teh reporting of problems.
At present whenever i get reports either on this mailing list sor
directly I attempt to fix. At present i have about 5 remaining that I
have not looked at. If no one reports an error then it is unlikely to
get fixed unless it kicks one of my pieces -- which are rare enough
objects.
If this is to be a list of known errors and defficiencies that I
would like to have access to it when looking at csound sources, and
that means e-mail. I just cannot view web documents in that
environment. I think that some of the the Linux people collect a list
of defficiencies, but I do not know how to access it, so for me at
least it might as well not exist.
Is this data base supposed to just record what not to do, or to lead
to improvements?
==John ffitch
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: Csound
Subject: Crickets Orc/Sco
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:38:58 -0500
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Hi,
Summer is coming to an end but if you miss the sound of crickets you can
recreate it with the following Csound orc/sco.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
; ORC
;---------------------------------------------------------
; Crickets
; Coded by Hans Mikelson September, 1999
;---------------------------------------------------------
sr = 44100 ; Sample rate
kr = 4410 ; Kontrol rate
ksmps = 10 ; Samples/Kontrol period
nchnls = 2 ; Normal stereo
;---------------------------------------------------------
; Cricket 2
;---------------------------------------------------------
instr 14
idur = p3 ; Duration
iamp = p4 ; Amplitude
ifqc = p5 ; Frequency modification
ipuls = p6 ; Pulse table
iftab = p7 ; Frequency table
iloop = p8 ; Loop time
iltab = p9 ; Loop table
ilpetab = p10 ; Loop envelope table
ifetab = p11 ; Frequency envelope table
ibasef = 19 ; Base pulse frequency
ipanl = sqrt(p12) ; Pan left
ipanr = sqrt(1-p12) ; Pan right
iv = iamp/10000 ; High shelf level
kaf oscili 2, 1/iloop, iltab ; Pulse envelope FM
kamp1 oscili 1, 1/iloop, ilpetab ; Loop envelope
kfenv oscili 1, 1/iloop, ifetab ; Loop frequency envelope
kamp2 oscili 1, ibasef*kaf, ipuls ; Generate pulse stream
kamp = sqrt(kamp1*kamp2) ; Make it rounded
kfqc1 oscil 4800*kfenv*ifqc, ibasef*kaf, iftab ; Fundamental fqc
kfqc2 oscil 9500*kfenv*ifqc, ibasef*kaf, iftab ; Overtone
kdclck linseg 0, .005, 1, idur-.01, 1, .005, 0 ; Declick envelope
afnd oscil kamp, kfqc1, 1 ; fundamental oscillator
ahrm oscil kamp, kfqc2, 1 ; Overtone oscillator
aout pareq (afnd+ahrm*.04)*iamp*kdclck, 7000, iv, .707, 2 ; Set high
shelf filter low for distant crickets
outs aout*ipanl, aout*ipanr ; Output the sound with panning
endin
; SCO
f1 0 65536 10 1
f2 0 1024 7 0 306 1 306 0 412 0
f3 0 1024 7 1 153 .97 153 .92 306 .85 412 1
f4 0 1024 7 1 43 1 10 .5 961 .5 10 1
f5 0 1024 7 .5 43 .5 10 .8 240 1 10 0 721 0 10 .5 ; Loop envelope
f8 0 1024 7 .5 43 .5 10 .8 300 1 10 0 661 0 10 .5 ; Loop envelope
f6 0 1024 7 .9 43 .9 10 1 961 1 10 .9
f7 0 1024 7 1 1024 1
; Cricket
; Sta Dur Amp Fqc PlsTab FqcTab Loop LoopFM LoopEnv FqcEnv
Pan
i14 0 .4 8000 1 2 3 .6 4 5 6 1
i14 2 .4 8000 1 2 3 .6 4 5 6 1
i14 4 3 8000 1 2 3 .6 4 5 6 1
i14 13.8 6 8000 1 2 3 .6 4 5 6 1
i14 23.8 4.3 7000 1 2 3 .6 4 5 6 1
i14 29.8 4.3 6000 1 2 3 .6 4 5 6 1
i14 16.2 1 9000 .98 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.5
i14 18.2 3 8000 .98 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.5
i14 24.2 4.5 7000 .98 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.5
i14 29.2 4.5 6000 .98 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.5
i14 8.5 3 7000 1.1 2 3 .5 4 8 6 0
i14 13 7 7000 1.1 2 3 .5 4 8 6 0
i14 24 4.2 7000 1.1 2 3 .5 4 8 6 0
i14 29 4.2 6000 1.1 2 3 .5 4 8 6 0
i14 23.2 5 5300 1.05 2 3 .5 4 8 6
.8
i14 29.2 5 3000 1.05 2 3 .5 4 8 6
.8
i14 30.5 5.2 3500 .992 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.6
i14 22.1 5.3 4100 .985 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.2
i14 29.1 5.3 4100 .985 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.2
i14 24.2 5.2 3200 1.0 2 3 .5 4 8 6
.9
i14 30.2 5.2 3200 1.0 2 3 .5 4 8 6
.9
i14 29.5 5.4 5000 1.1 2 3 .6 4 5 6
.1
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From: richard bowers
To: csound csound , jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
References:
Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:42:17 +0100
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I personally feel that a database, for whatever purpose, would be the wrong
place to document 'errors'. I'm concerned with the suggestion that the
database would be updated by anyone (am I right in thinking that?) because
the list itself reveals a wide range of levels understanding of csound.
Surely the list itself is the best place to notify the programmers of any
problems so that the updates, which are frequent enough, can be implemented
in code and documentation in a consistent fashion. Also, there seems to be a
growing number of variants/different platforms etc. which would demand
additional scrutiny.
I think Larry Troxler's original concern over the status of the ugens for a
new user of csound may be better addressed by a thoroughgoing review of the
manual: I feel that some of the examples may be added to and the consistent
format expanded to allow for other common features (eg. default settings may
be explicitly stated - I can't think of anything else offhand - but you get
the idea?). It may be good to organise the sections differently etc.
Anyway, that's my view (as a user - not a programmer).
Richard Bowers.
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From: richard bowers
To: csound csound , jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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References:
Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:42:17 +0100
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I personally feel that a database, for whatever purpose, would be the wrong
place to document 'errors'. I'm concerned with the suggestion that the
database would be updated by anyone (am I right in thinking that?) because
the list itself reveals a wide range of levels understanding of csound.
Surely the list itself is the best place to notify the programmers of any
problems so that the updates, which are frequent enough, can be implemented
in code and documentation in a consistent fashion. Also, there seems to be a
growing number of variants/different platforms etc. which would demand
additional scrutiny.
I think Larry Troxler's original concern over the status of the ugens for a
new user of csound may be better addressed by a thoroughgoing review of the
manual: I feel that some of the examples may be added to and the consistent
format expanded to allow for other common features (eg. default settings may
be explicitly stated - I can't think of anything else offhand - but you get
the idea?). It may be good to organise the sections differently etc.
Anyway, that's my view (as a user - not a programmer).
Richard Bowers.
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From: Larry Troxler
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To: richard bowers
CC: csound csound , jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
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richard bowers wrote:
>
> I personally feel that a database, for whatever purpose, would be the wrong
> place to document 'errors'.
Actually, my idea wasn't just to document known errors, but to document
known non-errors, IOW to document that someone somewhere is sucessfully
using a certain ugen, so that someone can feel confident in using a
certain ugen, knowing that there's a chance that there's no major
problems with it. I understand that just because a ugen worked correctly
for some person in some orc, doesn't mean that there aren't bugs that
wills show up in a different usage. But it's a start.
> I think Larry Troxler's original concern over the status of the ugens for a
> new user of csound may be better addressed by a thoroughgoing review of the
> manual:
>
> I feel that some of the examples may be added to and the consistent
> format expanded to allow for other common features (eg. default settings may
> be explicitly stated - I can't think of anything else offhand - but you get
> the idea?). It may be good to organise the sections differently etc.
This of course isn't a bad idea, but it's orthogonal to the problem I
was addressing.
Yes, maybe a "KNOWN BUGS" section for each ugen would be helpfull. Of
course, the bigger problem is UNKNOWN bugs, which if we had some idea of
how widely various opcodes are used, could have a better feeling if
we're in for another night of debugging code in attempting to use them.
I think one first basic step forward, would be a simple mechanical one:
Provide an archive of the mailing list somewhere. The only archive I've
been able to find is an on-line interactive one, which given the volume
on this list I find impractical to deal with. For me, it would be more
usefull to be able to download a years worth of messages to grep in the
comfort of my own home. I don't care if this means downloading a 100MB
file. The added convenience would be well worth it.
Larry Troxler
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From: Larry Troxler
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To: richard bowers
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Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
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richard bowers wrote:
>
> I personally feel that a database, for whatever purpose, would be the wrong
> place to document 'errors'.
Actually, my idea wasn't just to document known errors, but to document
known non-errors, IOW to document that someone somewhere is sucessfully
using a certain ugen, so that someone can feel confident in using a
certain ugen, knowing that there's a chance that there's no major
problems with it. I understand that just because a ugen worked correctly
for some person in some orc, doesn't mean that there aren't bugs that
wills show up in a different usage. But it's a start.
> I think Larry Troxler's original concern over the status of the ugens for a
> new user of csound may be better addressed by a thoroughgoing review of the
> manual:
>
> I feel that some of the examples may be added to and the consistent
> format expanded to allow for other common features (eg. default settings may
> be explicitly stated - I can't think of anything else offhand - but you get
> the idea?). It may be good to organise the sections differently etc.
This of course isn't a bad idea, but it's orthogonal to the problem I
was addressing.
Yes, maybe a "KNOWN BUGS" section for each ugen would be helpfull. Of
course, the bigger problem is UNKNOWN bugs, which if we had some idea of
how widely various opcodes are used, could have a better feeling if
we're in for another night of debugging code in attempting to use them.
I think one first basic step forward, would be a simple mechanical one:
Provide an archive of the mailing list somewhere. The only archive I've
been able to find is an on-line interactive one, which given the volume
on this list I find impractical to deal with. For me, it would be more
usefull to be able to download a years worth of messages to grep in the
comfort of my own home. I don't care if this means downloading a 100MB
file. The added convenience would be well worth it.
Larry Troxler
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From: David Matthews
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Gabriel Maldonado's VCMI
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:51:44 GMT
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Looks neat. Is there going to be a port to Mac or Unix/Linux?
-DGM
>From: Gabriel Maldonado
>To: Csound Mailing List
>Subject: [Announce] VMCI Plus (2.0) available for download
>Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:48:52 +0200
>
>Hi all,
>VMCI Plus, the new version of Virtual Midi Control Interface is
>available for download at the following url:
>
>http://web.tiscalinet.it/G-Maldonado/vmciplus.html
>
>The newer version of the program (VMCI Plus 2) supports snapshots and
>allows to change more than one parameter at the same time by means of
>the new Hyper-Vectorial Synthesis control. VMCI supports 7-bit data as
>well as the higher resolution 14-bit data that can be handled by the
>newer versions of Csound. It allows also remote MIDI control of sliders
>and Hyper Vectorial Synthesis.
>
>The archive include several examples as well as orc/sco pairs.
>
>Happy VMCIing
>
>--
>Gabriel Maldonado
>
>http://web.tiscalinet.it/G-Maldonado/home2.htm
______________________________________________________
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From: J P Fitch
To: Larry Troxler
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
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The archive of csound mailing list on ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk goes back a long way
(but not to the start of everything). It is large though, and in a simple format (BABYL or MMDF amil format I suspect).
==John
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Reply-To: Rich Weisgerber
From: Rich Weisgerber
To: Csound List
References: <000f01bef6ec$24594ee0$0587883e@internetpc> <37D1419F.3C7AAFAA@westnet.com>
Subject: Csound List archive -- was: ugen test-level status in doc?
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:56:28 -0700
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ftp.maths.bat.ac.uk/pub/dream/Csound_List_Archive
Files are GZip format.
. . . Provide an archive of the mailing list somewhere. . . .
Larry Troxler
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To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: David Boothe
Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
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Csounders-
A few thoughts that have occurred to me as I read the posts (from which I
quote) on this topic:
Richard Bowers:
>the list itself reveals a wide range of levels understanding of >csound.
This is a problem with any list of "Known Bugs," regardless where it
resides. When I find a bug, in my own use of Csound, I usually discover
that it is between my ears. So for a "Known Bugs" list to be anything more
than a rehashing of half the posts to the list, each would need to be
verified by someone, most likely John ffitch. Seems like a waste of his (or
anyone's) time, when he could just fix it instead. Hmm...that's exactly
what happens now....
....as long as he knows about it:
John ffitch:
>If no one reports an error then it is unlikely to
>get fixed unless it kicks one of my pieces --
Larry Troxler:
>Actually, my idea wasn't just to document known errors, but to >document
>known non-errors, IOW to document that someone somewhere is >sucessfully
>using a certain ugen, so that someone can feel confident in using
Why not just assume they all work, until you find out otherwise, either
through the list or by personal experience? I realize that can be
frustrating, but that's why the list exists.
In some cases, what appears to be a bug may only be a lack of understanding
about what the opcode is supposed to do. Often this is due to unclear
documentation - a situation I am always trying to improve. (More about that
later)
Several people already send me suggestions for improvement on this or that
opcode's documentation. I greatly appreciate this, and attempt to credit
those contributions on my "What's New" page with each release.
I do not think the manual is an appropriate place to document known bugs,
except *maybe* in an appendix. However, John usually fixes bugs in his next
release that have been brought to his attention since the last one. Any
list in the manual would be out of date as soon as it is published.
A few opcodes already carry warnings in the manual. Ideally, these should
come from programmer who wrote the code.
Richard again:
>It may be good to organise the sections differently
This has been under way for some weeks and will be take place in version
3.59 of the Acrobat (pdf) and HTML manuals. It is quite a large job and
taking some time, so it will be a few more weeks before it is ready.
Note to those who keep a printed copy of the Acrobat manual - go buy paper.
Version 3.59 is a complete reprint. Version 3.57 cannot be upgraded to
version 3.59.
Richard:
>I feel that some of the examples may be added to and the >consistent
>format expanded to allow for other common features (eg. default >settings may
>be explicitly stated
Defaults usually are stated for optional arguments. I believe (but could be
wrong) that most required arguments do not have defaults.
Inconsistent use of examples is still one of the biggest problems with the
manual as it exists, IMO. I have added a one or two myself, but I simply
don't have time to write and test them all.
I've had in mind for a while, to initiate a "Csound Example Project" to
fill out the manuals' examples. This seems to me the best way for users to
be certain that the opcode they are about to use really works, and their
understanding of how it works, and what it is supposed to do, is accurate.
After the current re-edit of the manual is finished, I'll try to come up
with some guidelines for anyone wishing to submit them.
-David.
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Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 01:53:08 +0000
From: Larry Troxler
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To: David Boothe
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Subject: Re: ugen test-level status in doc?
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David Boothe wrote:
>
> Larry Troxler:
> >Actually, my idea wasn't just to document known errors, but to >document
> >known non-errors, IOW to document that someone somewhere is >sucessfully
> >using a certain ugen, so that someone can feel confident in using
>
> Why not just assume they all work, until you find out otherwise, either
> through the list or by personal experience? I realize that can be
> frustrating, but that's why the list exists.
>
Well, given my admittedly limited experience so far, this assumption is
not warranted! If I had an infinite amount of available time, it
wouldn't matter. But given an hour per evening, it becomes quite a
problem. Am I the only one on this list with a day job?
> In some cases, what appears to be a bug may only be a lack of understanding
> about what the opcode is supposed to do. Often this is due to unclear
> documentation - a situation I am always trying to improve. (More about that
> later)
>
In some cases, yes, but not in most cases (IMHO).
Larry Troxler
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