|
> Csound really is, a blank canvas, with inks, brushes, oils, found
objects..
I said it before : I can paint in oil what I do in csound, I can Csound in
audio what I paint in oil.
David.
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Subject: Re: fft question
To: Csound mailing list
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:52:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Eli Brandt
In-Reply-To: <27908.199802181122@zeno.maths.exeter.ac.uk> from "james@maths.ex.ac.uk" at Feb 18, 98 11:22:43 am
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Fabio P. Bertolotti writes:
> It seems to me that the use of an FFT requires that the input signals
>be periodic over the sample length. Otherwise, the discontinuity will
>pollute the FFT spectrum with unwanted frequencies.
For a single pair of blocks, the FFT will "assume periodicity",
performing a periodic convolution. To get the aperiodic convolution
you probably want, zero-pad enough so that the result doesn't interfere
with itself: 00xx00 * 00yy00 = 0zzzz0 (overkill for clarity).
I won't try to explain the techniques for extending this to long
signals, but look up "overlap-add" in a DSP text. The result really
is the same as direct convolution. (You do get block-rate crud if you
try to alter the response over time -- side question: is there a way
to do this cleanly that's faster/better than heavy overlapping?)
--
Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
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From: Mike Berry
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Supercollider is not public domain and is at present only a Mac PPC application.
--
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb
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From: David Madole
Subject: Re: cecilia on a mac upgrade
To: Al@thenoisefloor.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Reply-To: madole@mills.edu
In-Reply-To: <28010.199802181140@zeno.maths.exeter.ac.uk> from "james@maths.ex.ac.uk" at Feb 18, 98 11:40:07 am
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>
> Is there any info available regarding the upgrade from
> Cecilia 1.75b to 1.8b (Mac version)? I've tried running
> 1.8 with tcl/tk 8.1a1 and it hangs on start up. It gets as
> far as loading image: exp in the lower corner of the start
> up screen.
This is something that has been happening in fits and starts with the
Mills version. I got the necessary stuff to run it and it just
disappeared beneath the pile of 3.47 upgrades. I'll dig up some old
relevant email and get back to the Cecilia crew and try to get back
into it, or maybe matt can poke at it or something.
Dave
Dave Madole
Technical Director, Center for Contemporary Music
Listserv Administrator
Mills College
Oakland, CA 94613
510-430-2336
madole@mills.edu
> Thanks
> Al Nelson
>
>
>
> --
> James Andrews, maths CDO, ext.3977
>
>
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:18:42 +0100
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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Richard Dobson wrote:
> I I like to have more than one way of doing things. Csound offers
> several ways of
> doing most things - why not convolution too?
> It has educational value (eg reproduce the Moorer experiments)
> I'm not convinced that there are no side effects using the FFT
> approach - how can I
> find
> out other than by trying both?
> maybe I don't just want to apply reverb, but some arbitrary
> transformation where I
> can
> have control over sample amplitudes.
> Modern PCs are fast enough to make it reasonable.
>
In what kind of things other than reverbs can convolution be useful?
What types of convolution are theorized at present time? In what way is
convolve opcode limited? I'm very interested.
--
Gabriel Maldonado
mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:54:31 +0100
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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Eric Scheirer wrote:
> > But, until now (alpha or beta version?), SAOL is very slow on PCs
> (at
> > least 10 times slower
> > than Csound).This makes realtime almost impossible.
>
> Again, it's important to keep in mind the distinction between
> "language"
> and "implementation". Languages have properties like "richness",
> "clarity", "power", "simplicity", and "definition". Implementations
> have properties like "speed", "portability", "compliance", and so
> forth.
> It so happens that my own implementation 'saolc' is a very slow
> implementation of SAOL, the language, but this is not a property of
> the language. (This is one reason that I gave the implementation a
> different name, 'saolc'. Above, you really mean to say "'saolc' is
> very
> slow on PCs" which I heartily agree with).
OK, OK. I meant "current saolc implementation on PCs" is very slow.
Excuse me!! I hope Saol will overtake the speed of Csound on the same
platforms, because I belive it is a very good heir in the future.
best
--
Gabriel Maldonado
mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/7041/home2.htm
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From: Gabriel Maldonado
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Mike Berry wrote:
> Open Sound Control which is developed at CNMAT is also interesting for
>
> parameter control. Its what we used for the recent Hub internet
> performance,
> since it can direct address a UDP address. You can encapsulate any
> kind of
> data into an OSC packet.
Does it exist a PC version or source code? Where can we get it?
best
--
Gabriel Maldonado
mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/7041/home2.htm
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Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:40:24 +0100
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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Probably your cards are not full-duplex. If the two cards are installed
into the same computer at the same time and windows recognizes them
correctly, try to select the WAVE IN port of one card and the WAVE OUT
port of the other card when invoking csound.
--
Gabriel Maldonado
mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/7041/home2.htm
Olivier Pasquet wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a small problem with the Real Time CSound.
> When I try the Gabriel's example (delay), it says me:
>
> "Failed to open DAC: wave out device already allocated"
>
> -- I have tryed to set my soundcard at 8 bits: nothing changes.
> -- I have tryed two types of soundcard (Sound blaster and
> Turtlebeach). I know
> they are all Soundblaster compatible...
> -- When I remove the "-i" flag, the OUT realtime works all right.
>
> I'm quite sure it is a stupid thing.
> How can I do?
>
> Thank You very much.
>
> Olivier.
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:57:20 +0100
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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Hi all,
the archive was renamed to avoid anyone could think it is a different
program than csound
source code is avalaible at the following url:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/7041/csoundrt-src.zip
best
Gabriel
mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
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To: csound mailing list
From: =cw4t7abs
Subject: Re: new language proposal
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>Mike Berry wrote:
>
>> Open Sound Control which is developed at CNMAT is also interesting for
>>
>> parameter control. Its what we used for the recent Hub internet
>> performance,
>> since it can direct address a UDP address. You can encapsulate any
>> kind of
>> data into an OSC packet.
>
>Does it exist a PC version or source code? Where can we get it?
>best
http://home.netscape.com/home/internet-search.html
enter cnmat.kl!k presz.
rezultat =3D=3D mousz orgazm.m9nd konta!nr kollapz.
_+ akadem!a 1\k!kx
s y m m e t r +3 [k 0 r ; u p t -1 p n
---- =D8 f =D8 =D8 =D8 3 [p-un_kT-pr_o-T=96k_oL]
hTTp://www.hell.com ordnung|d!sziplin
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Subject: Re: [Csound Parser] Re: new language proposal -Reply
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>>demo at
>> www.audiosynth.com
>
>Thank you. I went there and looked and read the FAQ. It sounds like
>a very powerful application. The FAQ did not answer the following
>questions I have:
>
>1) is there a public domain version of Super Collider?
>
>2) is there a linux port?
non et non
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From: Dustin Barlow
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To: csound mailing list
Subject: CSounder and Softsamp are back...
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:54:54 -0800
Organization: Omni Digital Systems
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It was brought to my attention by a kind user that CSounder and SoftSamp files were gone
from the Omni Digital Systems' site. I have replaced the files that somehow disappeared
so anyone else who tried and failed to download either of these two software programs,
can now get them...at http://www.omnids.com/software
Sorry for the inconveinence...
Dustin Barlow
Omni Digital Systems
dbarlow@omnids.com
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:57:46 +0000
From: Mike Berry
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To: Gabriel Maldonado
Cc: csound mailing list
Subject: Re: new language proposal
References: <19980216191558558.AAA47@nobody> <34E9E7D0.6DAA5F82@cc.gatech.edu> <34EA06BE.36FB5BF7@cableinet.co.uk> <34E9B02F.EB23ECF6@nmol.com> <34EB20A3.E90C98DE@agora.stm.it>
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Gabriel Maldonado wrote:
>
> Mike Berry wrote:
>
> > Open Sound Control which is developed at CNMAT is also interesting for
> >
> > parameter control. Its what we used for the recent Hub internet
> > performance,
> > since it can direct address a UDP address. You can encapsulate any
> > kind of
> > data into an OSC packet.
>
> Does it exist a PC version or source code? Where can we get it?
> best
> --
try http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/OpenSoundControl
--
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb
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To: charlie hubbard
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From: Hans Pelleboer
Subject: Re: new language proposal
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 23:07:54 PST
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Hello Charlie,
> How about new synths that don't use midi? Real world case in point:
> The Hub. I think musicians are starving for some interesting new
Could you tell me what `The Hub' is ?
TNX
Hans Pelleboer
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To: Erik Spjut
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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From: Hans Pelleboer
Subject: Re: convolution
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 22:31:25 PST
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From: hcp
Subject: Re: convolution
To: Erik Spjut
Cc:
Date:
----------
> At 10:56 PM -0800 2/17/98, Hans Pelleboer wrote:
>
> >For very short convolutions, I might even cook up a simple `delay
> >+ multiplication' script, without altering or adding anything to the
code.
> >Trouble is that I would like to do LONG convolutions, like recorded
> >reverberation responses, for example. It is possible, of course, to use
> >an external application, solely devoted to that one task, but it would be
> >much more elegant to have it incorporated in csound itself.
> >Any suggestions?
>
> Use convolve. Implementing the direct convolution sum for more than about
> 128 taps is foolish.
This I would dispjut! As far as I understand, the `convolve' function within
csound does not support dynamic convolution, which was the prime directive
for doing it. I take that you suggest the overlap and add method for
reconstructing the entire response--why get into the administrative hassle
of having to concatenate hundreds of small convolutions when all
coefficients
and their summations could be easily fitted into RAM (I am planning to
upgrade
to 128Meg in the coming months)? Having all the coefficients in a single
file is also much more elegant, I think.
> opcode implements the orders-of-magnitude faster procedure of taking
FFT's,
> multiplying spectra, and taking inverse FFT's.
For my application, high resolution is required both on the frequency- as
well
as the time-domain. This would imply the use of numerous long FFTs with
short time offsets, which would probably make the speed increase minute
at best; or do you suggest simply concatenating 128 point FFTs ? That would
be out of the question.
Also, I am not at all sure that the windowing of the consecutive FFTs would
not
introduce periodic roundoff errors that would introduce rattles in the
response
> the delay, and pre-analyze the impulse-response file, but the manual has
> the formula for the delay and the pre-analysis is very fast.
Could you please tell me what manual you are referring to reg. the pre-anal?
Yours,
Hans Pelleboer
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From: Hans Pelleboer
Subject: Fw: convolution
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----------
> Date: Wednesday 18 February 1998 22:55:45
> From: hcp
> To: Gabriel Maldonado
> Subject: Re: convolution
>
> Gabriel Maldonado wrote:
> > In what kind of things other than reverbs can convolution be useful?
> > What types of convolution are theorized at present time? In what way is
> > convolve opcode limited? I'm very interested.
>
> `Reverb' is a broad concept. If you mean just the `playback' of a room
> response
> then that is one of the main applications. The type of refinements of
this
> scheme that I am interested in would include the dynamic variation of
> parameters
> in a reverberation field; i.e. simulation of movement --but then more
> convincing
> than the rather crude doppler shift plus direct/diffuse ratio approach
that
> I have
> seen in most cases. Source projection in space, combined with
articulation
> is a prime application for convolution, i.e. building a moving Pavarotti
> generator with
> optional built in Scala function. Many complex non-causal time varying
> filters
> --what a mouthful! Isn't DSP wonderful?--can be built with dynamic
> convolution.
>
> The limitation of the present convolve function is, as far as I know, that
> it is not
> dynamic --it does not allow for the input impulse response to be varied
on a
> per sample basis without giving rise to nasty discontinuities --clicks,
> rattles,
> what have you.
>
> Yours,
> Hans Pelleboer
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From: Richard Dobson
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To: Gabriel Maldonado , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: convolution
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Well, according to all the dsp and math books I have read, convolution in
the time domain is equal to multiplication in the frequency domain. Thus,
when you multiply one fft window ( representing a bit of sound) by another
(eg a filter response shape) you get a filtered sound out the other end (in
the time domain, a filter is doing a convolution with the input samples).
This is one way to do vocoding - multiplying the fft of some sound with the
fft of a vocal sound.
So in fact, convolution is used all the time, for filtering. As for the
theory, you would need to ask a mathematician, which, to my shame, I am
not!
Richard Dobson
Gabriel Maldonado wrote:
>
>
> In what kind of things other than reverbs can convolution be useful?
> What types of convolution are theorized at present time? In what way is
> convolve opcode limited? I'm very interested.
>
> --
> Gabriel Maldonado
>
> mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
> http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/7041/home2.htm
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:50:33
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Hans Mikelson
Subject: Re: convolution
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Hi,
>> the delay, and pre-analyze the impulse-response file, but the manual has
>> the formula for the delay and the pre-analysis is very fast.
I played with convolve a bit. I first constructed an audio file made by
clapping my hands in our bath room. Then I recorded the sound of me
tapping on the side of my acoustic bass. I mixed the two together and
pitch shifted it down an octave or so until I got it sound how I wanted it
to. It made a pretty good reverb.
The only problem I encountered was the long delay before the reverb starts.
The only way I could think of to deal with this was to start the reverb
instrument the required amount of time before I started reading the audio.
This amounts to a section of nothing at the beginning of the sound file.
Is there a way to generate the convolution and "discard" the first part so
that the original audio and the reverb occur at the correct time and there
is no gap at the beginning of the resulting audio file?
Sorry I came into this thread late.
Regards,
Hans Mikelson
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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:40:17
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Hans Mikelson
Subject: Re: instrument design hints
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Here are some tips:
1. If you have a slow computer only generate a second or so of sound at a
time so that you have a fast turn around time.
2. When I first started making instruments I used lots of P-Fields. Now I
try to limit them. Conventional synthesizers map a lot of things to
velocity. This is somewhat useful. I prefer an "accent" field. You can
use to give a little boost to Fco or Q or add a burst of noise to the
beginning of a flute sound etc.
3. Use Zak audio channels to route the output of instruments to a mixer or
sound effects. Use Zak kontrol channels to route LFO's and envelopes to
the instruments modulation destinations.
4. Use oscil iamp, 1/idur, itable as a controlable modulation source like a
twisting knob. Don't use it for ADSR type envelopes. Constant times
generally work better for ADSR type envelopes. ie:
kenv linseg 0, .1, iamp, .2, .8*iamp, idur-.4, .5*iamp, .1, 0
5. If it suites your purpose or sounds good disregard all of these
suggestions.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:49:18 +0100
From: Riccardo Bianchini
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Subject: Are we creating a monster?
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Dear Csounders,
I've read very carefully all the stuff about Csound parser/Dynamic
library
linking and so on, and some questions arose in my mind:
1. Csound was born and is alive as a "standard" sound synthesis
language, i.e., I can compose a piece and (assuming I didn't use
external
soundfiles for synthesis) send my orc/sco (usually less than 100 KByte)
to the Csound community. Everybody can synthesize and listen to it (and
possibly throw away resulting soundfile!). If we go on making
"extensions", this could no more be true.
2. Are we trying to transform Csound in a commercial synth? Frankly, I
don't understand WHY all those phisical modeling opcodes (marimba,
vibraphone, agogobell etc.) are in Csound: admittedly, they make nice
sounds... but a commercial synth (or even a *software* commercial synth)
can do better. If someone likes to make marimba sounds, he'd better not
use
Csound.
3. New parser(s): OK for the orchestra: I'd like so much better program
control structures: I could kill for something like:
(Basic-flavour) (C flavour)
If ka R kb then If ka R kb {
... ...
... ... }
elseif ka R kc then else if ka R kc {
... ...
... ...
or for a C-like "switch". But the score... please, don't! I think it's
much better to use a general purpose programming language (I use
Microsoft
Visual Basic for quick & dirty works) to make whatever we like. I build
myself a set of functions and subroutines that do most trivial jobs
(parsing a Csound score and putting p-fields in arrays, writing a new
score file and so on): and all this works very well to me.
A score preprocessor could be a better idea, as it would not modify
Csound itself.
Do you think I'm too much conservative?
Happy Csounding
Riccardo
--
Riccardo Bianchini, Professor
Scuola di Musica Elettronica
Conservatorio "S.Cecilia", Roma (Italy)
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/4768
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From: David Schuyeteneer
To: Hans Mikelson
Cc: csound mailing list
Subject: Re: CHORUS & other FX
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:53:36 +0100
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> At 03:05 PM 2/17/98 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >p.s The Csound maillist is...a home for sonic dropouts.
>
> If you want help again please do not make a remark like the above. I
> reread most of your posts. I have enjoyed many of your posts so despite
> your remark I have decided to help you. Change the line:
Hey Hans, come on.....it's not meant as a flame ! It's just a little
remark in the sense of describing
a little aspect of the wonderful world of soundediting ! It refers a little
to my own life, wich feels
like being a musical dropout. Laugh ! Isn't everything a joke ? ;-)))
Anyway, please explain why such remarks could make people feel offended
or....even humiliated perhaps ?
I won't do it again if the subscribers really don't like it.
> > adeltime oscil adelamount,adelfreq,1
>
> to:
>
> adeltime oscili adelamount,adelfreq,1
>
> oscili is an interpolating oscillator. 256 points is must not be enough.
> You could also increase the number of points to 8192 or so if real time
is
> a concern, since oscili is slower than oscil.
I'll try that !
> The multifx.orc and mutifx.sco were written by me. The zak opcodes are
> like patching channels, sort of like a mixer or an array of globals. You
> can write to a zak line in one instrument and read from it in another.
> They are extremely useful for working with effects. For instance I used
a
> zak k-rate to patch to the delay time of a chorus and a zak a-rate to
patch
> the audio into the chorus. This makes a flexible chorus that can derive
> its LFO from standard sine, triangle, or even a lorenz oscillator. Don't
> forget to add the original non-delayed signal to the delayed signal for
> chorus, otherwise you are making a vibrato. I think your total delay
time
> offset is a little large too.
"Aha" Erlebnis ! So the ZAK system functions as a sort of virtual mixing
desk like those impressive
knob-led-and-slider-overloaded array like hardware version in
musicstudio's ??
One ZAK line is like a one channel on a mixing desk through wich the data
can flow ?
> Keep up the good posts but please lay off the snide remarks..."You catch
> more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."--anonymous
Hmm...was that remark really that bad ?? Tell me more about it.
Isn't there any sense for humor in this list ? Do certain "over-serious"
people could feel harmed ?
David.
" One day, the last remark will be made, and it won't be made by me, nor by
you, but by who ? " --anonymous.
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From: David Schuyeteneer
To: csound mailing list
Subject: The Obsession continues. A quest for the sonic kingdom in the valley of music.
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:37:23 +0100
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Does anyone knows these people :
- "Antimatter" (might be also known as Xopher Davidson)
- Gregory Lenczycki
- Naut Humon
- Maryanne Amacher
???
Any information besides the occasional internet brief bio's (wich I
allready have) is welcome !!
These people belong to my top list of sonic artists and I can't find any
useful info on them,
especially about Maryanne Amacher and Xopher Davidson.
David.
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