| It would be good to have a library of impulse responses
in general. In relation to this one of the things that would
be really useful would be a guide to getting good impulse
response recordings - I have been unable to find anything
on the net.
mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
> [mailto:owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
> jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
> Sent: 23 October 1998 13:55
> To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> Subject: Reverb question
>
>
> Message written at 23 Oct 1998 11:32:21 +0100
>
> This is a question expecting the answer no (as I remember from
> learning latin).
>
> Does anyone have the impulse-response of the Cathedral of the
> Dormition in Smolensk?
>
> I ask as it seems to have a very sweet sound judging by a recording of
> the USSR Ministry of Culture Chamber Choir I have, and I would like to
> use it.
>
> ==John ff
>
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From: mark
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: RE: and SB Live!
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:14:42 +0100
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Hi
I too have just got a SB Live - a wonderful card, specialy
since it will play multiple wave streams at the same time.
Anyway my question is about using the four speaker channels -
is it possible to make stuff in CSound that will allow access to
multiple channels and how would I play it on the SBLive.
cheers
mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
> [mailto:owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Gabriel
> Maldonado
> Sent: 22 October 1998 13:01
> To: Josep M Comajuncosas
> Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
>
>
> Josep M Comajuncosas wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I recently saw the promotional prospectus of a low-cost PC
> sound card
> > (called MaxiSound or so) and I was *really* disapointed
> with its specs.
> > compared to Csound. Specifically, it is said to use a 3rd order
> > polynomial scheme for wavetable interpolation, when Csound
> only accepts
> > linear (1st order) interpolation.
> > As you may agree this cannot be accepted ;-), I=B4d suggest
> at least 3 new
> >
> > opcodes, called maybe
> > oscilp
> > tablep
> > deltapp
> > with an additional parameter to choose the polynomial
> degree used for
> > interpolated readout.
> > I=B4m not very sure about the improvement in the s/n ratio and in the
> > frequency response in relation to the degree of the Lagrange
> > interpolator. Maybe some of you have any clues. But it
> would be nice to
> > implement such feature.
>
> The problem is: does it improve the sound quality? How much
> does it cost in processing
> speed?
> My new SoundBlaster Live has an internal wavetable
> synthesizer who does 8 point
> interpolation in realtime. Actually the sound quality is
> excellent. I don't know if it
> depends of the interpolation algorithm or of the hardware
> analog converter.
>
> Where is it possble to get the algorithm to implement 8 point
> interpolation? If I could
> see an example of it I will implement it in Csound.
>
>
>
> > Another question related to waveguide opcodes. Does deltapi
> (and delayw
> > btw) accept fractional sample delay lengths (well, fractional 1/kr
> > units) ?
>
> Yes it does.
>
>
> > If not, is it expected to implement it soon? Otherwise it could
> > be difficult to tune a delay line at a precise high
> frequency, esp. at
> > low k-rates.
> > This is specially noticeable when developing waveguide models.
>
> The problem is that the first order filters that are
> implemented in the waveguide opcodes
> don't use fractional delay, so the pitch of high notes is not precise.
>
>
> --
> Gabriel Maldonado
>
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:38:45 -0800
From: SONICMAN
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is sonicman making it to the list???
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Subject: Re: MADSR
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Thanks for the information. As I do not have a MIDI set-up I was
unable to test it. I will look again at teh code to see if I can see
why it fails.
==John
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Thanks for the information. As I do not have a MIDI set-up I was
unable to test it. I will look again at teh code to see if I can see
why it fails.
==John
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Date: 23 Oct 98 10:21:58 EDT
From: "Matt J. Ingalls"
Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
To: g.maldonado@agora.stm.it, Larry Troxler
Cc: Csound list
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--- Gabriel Maldonado wrote:
The problem rises when using
sound samples
--- end of quote ---
yeah - that was always on todo list for "diskin" -- plus a
low pass filter for pitch shift up...
someone said there was an ICMC paper on interpolation?
something really new has been done on this?
-matt
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Reverb question
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:37:50 -0500
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Mark wrote:
>I have been unable to find anything on the net.
Go to Dejanews and search with the key phrase: impulse & response
http://www.dejanews.com/
>> I ask as it seems to have a very sweet sound judging by a recording of
>> the USSR Ministry of Culture Chamber Choir I have, and I would like to
>> use it.
Sorry John. I have not seen an impulse response from this one yet.
Regards,
Hans Mikelson
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: Csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: I want to add a simple line envelope to this resonfile...HOW???]
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:47:07 -0500
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Sonicman wrote:
>> In the following orc. I just want to add an envelope to control the
>> A,D,S, of the Reson afilt, any body know how?
>>
>> sr=44100
>> kr=4410
>> ksmps=10
>> nchnls=1
>>
>> instr 1
>> amp oscil 10000,p5,1
>> a1 line 2,3.5,10000
Try something like:
kfenv linseg 0, p3*.2, 1000, p3*.3, 500, p3*.5, 400
afilt reson a1, 100+kfenv, (100+kfenv)/4
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From: Jon Christopher Nelson
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Tom Erbe and I have corrresponded about setting up an impulse response ftp site
that would reside at Cal Arts with a mirror here at UNT. We haven't gotten
around to getting it up and running yet but hope to make some progress on this
by the end of the year.
with warmest regards,
Jon
Jon Christopher Nelson, Director
CEMI: Center for Experimental Music and Intermedia
University of North Texas College of Music
PO Box 311367
Denton, TX 76203-1367
ph. (940) 369-7531
fax (940) 565-2002
jnelson@sndart.cemi.unt.edu
OR
jnelson@music.cmm.unt.edu
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From: SONICMAN
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Subject: I want to add a simple line envelope to this resonfile...HOW???]
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> In the following orc. I just want to add an envelope to control the
> A,D,S, of the Reson afilt, any body know how?
>
> sr=44100
> kr=4410
> ksmps=10
> nchnls=1
>
> instr 1
> amp oscil 10000,p5,1
> a1 line 2,3.5,10000
> afilt reson a1, 10, 100,
> out afilt*amp
> endin
>
> Thank you,
>
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:46:19 -0800
From: SONICMAN
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Subject: I want to add a simple line envelope to this resonfile...HOW???
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In the following orc. I just want to add an envelope to control the
A,D,S, of the Reson afilt, any body know how?
sr=44100
kr=4410
ksmps=10
nchnls=1
instr 1
amp oscil 10000,p5,1
a1 line 2,3.5,10000
afilt reson a1, 10, 100,
out afilt*amp
endin
Thank you,
Marcus
--------------A053C74DF4B4F7F7E02E6BC5--
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From: Paul Doornbusch
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Subject: RE: Reverb question
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Tom Erb was going to do this a few months ago when the issue
of the lack of an impulse response archive was noted. You
might want to check out his site (sorry, I don't have the URL).
The best way to record them is probably with something like
a portable dat, great microphones and a stack of balloons and
pins to create the impulse.
Paul
On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, mark wrote:
> It would be good to have a library of impulse responses
> in general. In relation to this one of the things that would
> be really useful would be a guide to getting good impulse
> response recordings - I have been unable to find anything
> on the net.
>
> mark
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
> > [mailto:owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
> > jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
> > Sent: 23 October 1998 13:55
> > To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> > Subject: Reverb question
> >
> >
> > Message written at 23 Oct 1998 11:32:21 +0100
> >
> > This is a question expecting the answer no (as I remember from
> > learning latin).
> >
> > Does anyone have the impulse-response of the Cathedral of the
> > Dormition in Smolensk?
> >
> > I ask as it seems to have a very sweet sound judging by a recording of
> > the USSR Ministry of Culture Chamber Choir I have, and I would like to
> > use it.
> >
> > ==John ff
> >
>
Paul Doornbusch
Sonology Dept.
Royal Conservatory
Den Haag
The Netherlands
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From: J P Fitch
To: "Matt J. Ingalls"
cc: g.maldonado@agora.stm.it, Larry Troxler ,
Csound list
Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
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There was indeed a paper at ICMC on interpolation, which was why it got added
to mt to-do list. The conclusion seemed to be that quadratic interpolation
was worthwhile, and cibic was better, but hardly worth the time.effort.
It seemed to suggest that 'proper' sinc/convolution stuff was not really
necessary.
That is all from memory, so I may be wrong. I had intended looking at
quadratic interpolation as an experiment to see what peopel thought.
There is a weekend coming up.....
==John
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: Csound list
Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:56:15 -0500
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Hi,
I think the main problem is when creating digital waveguide filters. The
vdelay and deltapi opcodes use linear interpolation. This becomes a problem
at high frequencies. 44.1K/5K = 8 samples which is not sufficient for
accurate tuning. An improved version should be written which use sinc
interpolation which is commonly found in fractional digital waveguide
filters. If someone has deep understanding of such things please write us a
fractional waveguide filter opcode.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork
Subject: Re: Reverb question
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:28:25 -0500
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Hi,
In particular try the following sites:
http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/ There are links to wav's at the bottom.
http://www.arboretum.com/reverb/reverb.htm For a reverb shoot out.
There's another one I think in Texas but I can not find the link now.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 98 16:42:46 BST
From: J P Fitch
To: Hans Mikelson
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Reverb question
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The Texas one is http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~fredrics/isrc.html
I was told there were things on teh following two URLs as well, but I did not
find them:
http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/CCRMA/HomePages.html
http://www.acoustics.hut.fi/publications/papers.html
==John
but no Smolensk, sob!
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Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
To: Csound mailing list
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:16:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eli Brandt
In-Reply-To: from "J P Fitch" at Oct 23, 98 03:56:02 pm
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J P Fitch wrote:
> There was indeed a paper at ICMC on interpolation, which was why it got added
> to mt to-do list.
This would be Roger Dannenberg's "Interpolation Error In Waveform
Table Lookup", I'm guessing. For those who don't have the procs,
the paper ought to be online some time next week.
> The conclusion seemed to be that quadratic interpolation
> was worthwhile, and cibic was better, but hardly worth the time.effort.
For the compiler and hardware used (Intel, so slow arithmetic),
there's a time/space tradeoff: for a desired SNR, higher-order
interpolation is slower but takes a smaller table. The relationship
between table size and SNR depends heavily on the signal's brightness.
Only went up to quadratic -- I'm very curious to see how cubic
compares, actually.
BTW, I'm not sure this work applies directly to situations where the
same data is being resampled repeatedly, as in a waveguide.
--
Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
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Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
To: Csound mailing list
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:39:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eli Brandt
In-Reply-To: <000c01bdfe20$b701d0c0$258156d1@axe> from "Michael Gogins" at Oct 22, 98 09:01:47 pm
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Michael Gogins wrote:
> This is a very interesting site because this outfit appears to be working
> with Analog Devices on an Extended Csound related project, and with Yamah=
> a
> on a FireWire protocol for both multi-channel real-time digital audio, an=
> d
> MIDI information.
>
> I think we should talk to the Pavo people and see what the specification =
> of
> their FireWire protocol is, and whether any manufacturers (Yamaha?) are
> going to make controllers for it.
Sounds like this is Yamaha's mLan proposal -- specs and such at:
http://www.yamaha.co.jp/tech/1394mLAN/
This is very promising stuff. 1394 is fast enough to push a lot of
data, and mLan does it isochronously for good timing.
My understanding of the process here is that mLan was developed
within the 1394 group; industry MIDI and audio groups are now getting
on board, harmonizing with their notions, maybe negotiating tweaks.
Might still be a bit before gear hits the streets.
--
Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
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From: David Boothe
To: 'Paul Doornbusch'
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: RE: Reverb question (long reply)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:41:56 -0500
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Paul Doornbusch wrote:
>
> The best way to record them is probably with something like
> a portable dat, great microphones and a stack of balloons and
> pins to create the impulse.
>
> Paul
I agree with Paul, but would add a balloon inflator to the equipment list.
According to Russ Berger, an acoustics designer I trust, if you blow up a
balloon until it pops, instead of popping it with a pin, you get about 10 dB
more acoustic output. Looked at from the other direction, this would lower
your noise floor by 10 dB.
If you use a balloon inflator, you can be some distance from the balloon
when it goes off. Get as far away as physically possible, because you don't
want the balloon blowing up in your face or next to your ear. At the very
least you would get temporary threshold shift, so you wouldn't be able to
hear that last beautiful bit of reverb tail your trying so hard to get.
Other, even more unpleasant surprises may await you.
Also, if possible, try recording several files with different mic and/or
source placements in the room. This will not only give a more complete
picture of the space, but could be rewarding to use in multichannel playback
or interpolating between them for "movement" effects.
Happy popping.
-David.
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:49:44 -0500 (EST)
From: gamma_orion@iname.com
Subject: Compositions for alto saxophone and tape
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Hello,
This is a little bit out of topics, but I think that you can help me, I
am looking for compositions with alto saxophone and electroacoustic
tape. I have to play this pieces (if I find one), in a saxophone
festival that will take place in Montreal in december 1998. It is very
soon, so I will apreciate very much any help about that.
Presently, I have found those title but I don't know if they are
interresting or not.
Author Title
--------------------------
Babbitt (only the name of the author)
Diemente, Diary Part II
Grant, Duo I
Gutwein, Reliquary for Rahshaan
Horvit, Antiphon
Korte, Dialogue
McLean, Dimensions III and Dimensions IV
Moss, Evocation & Song
Phillips, Sonic Landscapes
--
Antoine Lefebvre
gamma_orion@iname.com
http://pages.infinit.net/linux/music/music.html
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:26:47 +0200
From: Josep M Comajuncosas
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To: mark
CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Reverb question
References: <000501bdfe7e$b8806ac0$6559a8c0@mark>
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mark wrote:
> It would be good to have a library of impulse responses
> in general.
Yes. Impulse responses of rooms for reverb simulations and impulse responses
of bodies of musical instruments for Physical Models.
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 19:04:54 -0400
From: Paul Winkler
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Hi folks,
I just got this message from egroups:
> From:
> "Jack Wu"
> To:
>
>
>
> I hae had no response fro the manager of that grouup.
> I have deleted the group for you.
> Hope that will rest your concerns
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:24:42 -0800
From: SONICMAN
Reply-To: sonicman001@att.net
Organization: MONUMENTAL MEDIA International
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Subject: Where are the amsterdam instruments now?
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Anybody have the NEW location for the amsterdam instruments for csound?
Send it on over please,
SONICMAN+out
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From: David Boothe
To: "'sonicman001@att.net'" ,
Csound Q&A list server
Subject: RE: Where are the amsterdam instruments now?
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:33:34 -0500
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ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/mirrors/accci
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SONICMAN [mailto:sonicman001@att.net]
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 7:25 PM
> To: Csound Q&A list server
> Subject: Where are the amsterdam instruments now?
>
>
> Anybody have the NEW location for the amsterdam instruments
> for csound?
>
> Send it on over please,
>
> SONICMAN+out
>
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 18:15:37 -0700
From: Jay Chernick
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Subject: Csound Magazine
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Hello,
Could someone (Hans?) please repost the URL for Csound Magazine? I'd
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Jay
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From: Michael Gogins
To: eli+@cs.cmu.edu, Csound mailing list
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Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:13:08 -0400
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I should add that as far as I know (not far at all!), FireWire wires have a
limited length, which might not cross a wide stage. Does anyone know off the
top of their head whether this is true and, if so, what is the maximum
length? I'll research this if we don't hear from one who knows.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eli Brandt
To: Csound mailing list
Date: Friday, October 23, 1998 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Interpolation schemes and SB Live!
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>> This is a very interesting site because this outfit appears to be working
>> with Analog Devices on an Extended Csound related project, and with
Yamah=
>> a
>> on a FireWire protocol for both multi-channel real-time digital audio,
an=
>> d
>> MIDI information.
>>
>> I think we should talk to the Pavo people and see what the specification
=
>> of
>> their FireWire protocol is, and whether any manufacturers (Yamaha?) are
>> going to make controllers for it.
>
>Sounds like this is Yamaha's mLan proposal -- specs and such at:
>http://www.yamaha.co.jp/tech/1394mLAN/
>
>This is very promising stuff. 1394 is fast enough to push a lot of
>data, and mLan does it isochronously for good timing.
>
>My understanding of the process here is that mLan was developed
>within the 1394 group; industry MIDI and audio groups are now getting
>on board, harmonizing with their notions, maybe negotiating tweaks.
>Might still be a bit before gear hits the streets.
>
>--
> Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
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From: Michael Gogins
To: gamma_orion@iname.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Compositions for alto saxophone and tape
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:16:23 -0400
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I used to be married to the composer Esther Sugai who wrote a piece for
electronic tape and soprano saxophone that was premiered at a Sonic Union
concert in New York City in 1980 or 1981 by the composer and saxophonist
David Gottlieb. Where she is now I do not know. You can probably find David
on the Web somewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: gamma_orion@iname.com
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Friday, October 23, 1998 4:53 PM
Subject: Compositions for alto saxophone and tape
>Hello,
>This is a little bit out of topics, but I think that you can help me, I
>am looking for compositions with alto saxophone and electroacoustic
>tape. I have to play this pieces (if I find one), in a saxophone
>festival that will take place in Montreal in december 1998. It is very
>soon, so I will apreciate very much any help about that.
>
>Presently, I have found those title but I don't know if they are
>interresting or not.
>
>Author Title
>--------------------------
>Babbitt (only the name of the author)
>Diemente, Diary Part II
>Grant, Duo I
>Gutwein, Reliquary for Rahshaan
>Horvit, Antiphon
>Korte, Dialogue
>McLean, Dimensions III and Dimensions IV
>Moss, Evocation & Song
>Phillips, Sonic Landscapes
>
>--
>Antoine Lefebvre
>gamma_orion@iname.com
>http://pages.infinit.net/linux/music/music.html
>
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:29:56 -0700
From: Sean Costello
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Subject: Feedback FM?
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Hi all,
Csound neophyte here. I'm trying to implement single oscillator FM,
where the output of the oscillator modulates the frequency of the
oscillator. According to The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads,
the result should be a waveform that approaches the spectrum of a
sawtooth with increasing feedback indexes (in a range from 0 to 2).
Unfortunately, my attempts at producing this in Csound have not been
unsuccessful. At very low indexes, the output is just like a sine wave.
With slightly higher indexes, it produces a buzzier waveform that dips
in pitch with as the index increases. Increase the index just a little
bit more, and the output sounds like my modem channeling the spirit of
Pharoah Sanders; a very cool, chaotic sound, but not what I was trying
to do. (Although I will undoubtedly be using this sound a great deal in
the future, as I love sounds that break into chaotic subharmonics.
Anyone else out there own an Octave Cat? :)
Does anyone have any advice? Is there a way of modulating the phase of
an oscillator in Csound, as opposed to the frequency? This would
probably solve the problem, but I am not sure what unit generator to
use. As it stands, it definitely sounds like there is no real
through-zero FM happening, as in the Yamaha FM implementation. The
pitch ends up going down to zero, and then just stopping (i.e. silence),
before reappearing in some totally weird place.
Thanks,
Sean Costello
P.S. Here's my orchestra and a sample score.
; FeedbackFM.orc
; An unsuccessful attempt at implementing
; feedback FM, by Sean Costello.
; (Unsuccessful in the sense of not doing what
; I intended it to do. It still sounds pretty
; cool to me.)
sr = 22050
kr = 2205
ksmps = 10
nchnls = 1
instr 1
aosc1 init 0
idur1 = p3 ; overall duration of note
ifreq1 = p4 ; main frequency
iamp1 = p5 * 4000 ; overall amplitude of note
iattack1 = p6
; attack of AD-style envelope for overall amplitude.
iamp2 = p7 ; feedback FM index
iattack2 = p8
; attack of AD-style envelope for feedback amplitude.
; kamp1 controls overall amplitude of note
kamp1 linseg .0001, iattack1, iamp1, (idur1 - iattack1), .0001
; kamp2 controls amplitude of feedback
kamp2 linseg .0001, iattack2, iamp2, (idur1 - iattack2), .0001
; I divided iamp2 by 10, just to get the feedback in a useable range.
aosc1 oscili kamp1, ifreq1 + (aosc1 * iamp2/10), 1
out aosc1
endin
; Feedback FM.sco by Sean Costello
; a3 at different FM index levels.
f1 0 16384 10 1
i1 0 5 220 1 2 .2 2
i1 5 5 220 1 2 .7 2
i1 10 5 220 1 2 1.2 2
i1 15 5 220 1 2 4 2
i1 20 5 220 1 2 10 2
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:58:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Floberg
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Subject: Re: Reverb Question -- Accounting for the Audience..
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John mentioned the particularly good sound of the cathedral at Smolensk
when listening to a recorded performance of a choir there. If a person
is trying to create an impulse response file in order to faithfully
reproduce the qualities of a certain space, based on hearing a
performance there, then shouldn't the presence of the audience be taken
into account?
It would seem that the presence of several hundred people would modify the
acoustic properties of the space quite a bit. That being the case, an
impulse response file created in an empty hall might give unexpected
(and possibly disappointing) results compared to what had been heard
in a recording of a performance in that same hall.
Can this be accounted for after the fact in an impulse response recording?
Fred
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