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Re: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?

Date1999-03-08 13:16
Fromjpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
SubjectRe: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
There are a variety of answers to the question.

1) Use r score command, but this fouls up with sections

2) Personally I use C for this purpose as it is so easy to hack up C
   programs, and anyway most of my music is generated in C

3) Use schedule opcode to repeat the note with a gkoval counter

4) Wait for me (or someone) to check out Gabriel's changes for
   none-section repeats using { and } to denote region.  This seems
   the best approach to me, but I need some time, and Yr1 C, yr2
   compilers, examinations, next commercial software release on Mac,
   and family problems are limiting my time.

I expect i have forgotten some solution.......

==John ff


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From: Bill DeWitt 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: RE: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:22:31 -0500
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The DirectCSound loops are cool. Mr. Maldonado was kind enough to reply to a
private post concerning a few false assumptions I had and I was able to get
it to work quite well. Of course...

	...Now I want MORE! I want conditional statements! I want branching! I want
independent variables! I want a full scripting language!

	Is it me or does it seem like years and years of hard, valuable work has
gone into developing the .ORC language while little effort has been put into
the .SCO side of CSound? Not that I am complaining or anything(or that I
could do anything about it myself), it just seems like there is more than
anyone can learn in the orchestra but score accepts almost nothing but
linear listings.

	I guess now that POV-Ray has put function-like macros in their scene
description language I have gotten spoiled...



> There are a variety of answers to the question.
>
> 1) Use r score command, but this fouls up with sections
>
> 2) Personally I use C for this purpose as it is so easy to hack up C
>    programs, and anyway most of my music is generated in C
>
> 3) Use schedule opcode to repeat the note with a gkoval counter
>
> 4) Wait for me (or someone) to check out Gabriel's changes for
>    none-section repeats using { and } to denote region.  This seems
>    the best approach to me, but I need some time, and Yr1 C, yr2
>    compilers, examinations, next commercial software release on Mac,
>    and family problems are limiting my time.
>
> I expect i have forgotten some solution.......
>
> ==John ff
>



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From: Stephen Brandon - SysAdmin 
Date: Mon,  8 Mar 1999 16:15:46 GMT
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
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Bill DeWitt wrote:

> ...Now I want MORE! I want conditional statements! I want branching! I want
> independent variables! I want a full scripting language!
>
> Is it me or does it seem like years and years of hard, valuable work has
> gone into developing the .ORC language while little effort has been put
> into the .SCO side of CSound? Not that I am complaining or anything(or that
> I could do anything about it myself), it just seems like there is more than
> anyone can learn in the orchestra but score accepts almost nothing but
> linear listings.

Lots of work has gone into developing the parts of Csound which cannot be  
easily done in other "languages". The score files, on the other hand, can  
very easily be generated in almost any language under the sun. Perl, C, C++,  
ObjC, Pascal, Lisp & derivatives, BASIC, FORTH, whatever.

That's not to say that Csound should not be improved in this way. But where  
do you stop? I think you will find that many/most serious Csound users use  
other languages or applications/programs to do their score generation. You  
might say that if Csound had better score capabilities then they would not  
have to, but I would counter that by saying that composers/users will  
gravitate towards whatever suits their needs BEST. I think that trying to  
refine a complex score file format which suits everyone, or even most users,  
would be a very difficult task. There have already been minor flame wars over  
whether looping should be done like language X or Y.

I am sure that further refinements of the score language will take place,  
but I would recommend users who wish to do complex score processing to  
examine things like Common Music, CLM, perl, and C [*]. Learning any of these  
4 may be difficult and take time, but it's rewarding, and opens the mind to  
new possibilities of data processing and how it relates to the compositional  
process.

[* And lots of others. Please, anyone who has a cool score generator program  
I have not mentioned, don't take offence. I know there are lots out  
there...]

Stephen Brandon
---
Systems Administrator,
Department of Music,		e-mail: S.Brandon@music.gla.ac.uk
14 University Gardens,			(NeXT mail welcomed)
University of Glasgow,		Tel: 	+44 (0)141 330 6065
Glasgow.			Fax:	+44 (0)141 330 3518
Scotland
G12 8QH


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From: Bill DeWitt 
To: Csound List 
Subject: RE: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:26:32 -0500
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>
> Lots of work has gone into developing the parts of Csound which
> cannot be
> easily done in other "languages". The score files, on the other
> hand, can
> very easily be generated in almost any language under the sun.
> Perl, C, C++,
> ObjC, Pascal, Lisp & derivatives, BASIC, FORTH, whatever.
>
> That's not to say that Csound should not be improved in this way.
> But where
> do you stop? I think you will find that many/most serious Csound
> users use
> other languages or applications/programs to do their score
> generation.

	Sure, which is what I'm doing right now. Actually my JavaScript thingie is
looking like a very handy tool. It just seems that a scripting score would
be relatively simple as compared to what I see in orchestra. As for which
format, there are already a bunch of conditional statements in the orchestra
that would seem to be the sensible template for score generation. That way
most of the bickering would have already have been done.8-)

	My conversation with someone else just made me realize that POV-Ray
includes enough functions to write a .sco file recursively! That way one
could generate the score for an animation while actually rendering the
animation! Too Bizarre!



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To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Sukandar Kartadinata 
Subject: ADI Extended Csound
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Hi everbody, I'm new to this list. My interest in Csound got revived after
I found out about that PCI card by Analog Devices which is supposed to run
an extended version of Csound. Has anyone experience/opinions to share ? In
particular I'm curious if it is possible to transfer the resulting DSP-code
to a standalone DSP board (like the EZ-KIT) ? Also, how is realtime
performance on other platforms ?

Thanks,
Sukandar




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sukandar Kartadinata
Custom Music Technology
Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




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From: Mik Prims 
To: Csound List 
Subject: Re: Csound Editor? (Re: Lost Tool for CSound)
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It still doesn't work

Mik (8/3/99)
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Bill DeWitt 
Aan: Roger Klaveness 
CC: Csound List 
Datum: maandag 1 maart 1999 16:07
Onderwerp: RE: Csound Editor? (Re: Lost Tool for CSound)


>>
>> You migth be talking about my Csound Editor
>> http://members.tripod.com/~fz3/csound/csedit.zip
>>
>
> That the one! Nice program. But I'm having a little trouble getting the
>link to work. "No Response from Server" type Error so I'll try back later.
>




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From: nunativs 
To: Bill DeWitt , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:29:06 -0800
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Bill,
	You really owe it to yourself if you want to generate extensive scores
that are more than pages of random note "sprays", no offense to anyone
working on this side of things, to check out Common Music.  Between Common
Music & Csound almost anything musically imaginable can be accomplished.  I
have very limited programming skills, though I'm working on it, but I have
found Common Music very easy to learn. And as your skills increase, Csound
& CM will let you build a custom system to your liking, that rivals
anything commercially available and its free!!  The documentation is a
little sparse but adequate to get started. Good luck,
Ken Locarnini

> 	Is it me or does it seem like years and years of hard, valuable work has
> gone into developing the .ORC language while little effort has been put
into
> the .SCO side of CSound? Not that I am complaining or anything(or that I
> could do anything about it myself), it just seems like there is more than
> anyone can learn in the orchestra but score accepts almost nothing but
> linear listings.
> 



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From: nunativs 
To: SONICMAN , Csound Q&A list 
Subject: Re: If I wanted to build an awesome 3-d gui for Csound/PPC?
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:56:06 -0800
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Hey Sonicman,
	Check out this interface written in java.  If only it allowed the import
of scos, and sco writing this would be an awesome tool, maybe perhaps
real-time midi input too?!  I think it allows you to add your own Csound
generators written in java.
http://hplank.inetpc.com/hpkcomposer.html 
Best,
	Ken


>     Ya' know every time I overcome a big obstacle with Csound I really
> wish I could use some of my Photoshop and Bryce 3 skills to build a
> beautiful and powerful GUI synth based on some of the stronger orc.s &
> sco's. What would be the BEST of the BEST books I should look to for
> this information?



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From: Bill DeWitt 
To: Csound List 
Subject: RE: Csound Editor? (Re: Lost Tool for CSound)
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:54:33 -0500
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I was able to get it by letting my download manager hammer away at it for
about a half hour...

>
> It still doesn't work
>
> >>
> >> You migth be talking about my Csound Editor
> >> http://members.tripod.com/~fz3/csound/csedit.zip
> >>
> >
> > That the one! Nice program. But I'm having a little trouble getting the
> >link to work. "No Response from Server" type Error so I'll try
> back later.
> >
>
>
>



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From: Bill DeWitt 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: RE: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:00:46 -0500
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Well,
	I'm doing everything (that I know enough to want to do) in JavaScript now,
and am working on a project in C++ for later. And so far I have only found
broken links for Common Music and a hint that I'll have to use a DOS box to
run it anyway.
	I think I may as well wait until I understand Orchestra syntax and usage a
little better before I take on another language learning project...

	Thanks for the recommendation though, I will keep it in mind.

>
> Bill,
> 	You really owe it to yourself if you want to generate
> extensive scores
> that are more than pages of random note "sprays", no offense to anyone
> working on this side of things, to check out Common Music.



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From: "Vercoe, Scotty" 
To: sk@zkm.de
Cc: CSOUND 
Subject: RE: ADI Extended Csound
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:35:04 -0500 
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Hi Sukandar,
A standalone implementation of XTCsound would need more memory than is on the
EZ-kit.  I'll refrain from giving my biased opinion on your other questions.
cheers
Scotty Vercoe
XTCsound Applications Consultant
Analog Devices Software & Systems Technology Division
Tel: (781) 461-3569       FAX: (781) 461-4291
Support: Csound.support@analog.com
Website: http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/thinktank/2138/


> ----------
> From: 	sk@zkm.de[SMTP:sk@zkm.de]
> Sent: 	Monday, March 08, 1999 1:03 PM
> To: 	csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> Subject: 	ADI Extended Csound
> 
> Hi everbody, I'm new to this list. My interest in Csound got revived after
> I found out about that PCI card by Analog Devices which is supposed to run
> an extended version of Csound. Has anyone experience/opinions to share ? In
> particular I'm curious if it is possible to transfer the resulting DSP-code
> to a standalone DSP board (like the EZ-KIT) ? Also, how is realtime
> performance on other platforms ?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sukandar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Sukandar Kartadinata
> Custom Music Technology
> Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
> http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> 


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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 22:36:33 +0100
From: Lemoine Jean-Pierre 
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Hello to all,
Yes, HPKComposer is alive. I have been busy finishing a new version,
thus there was no update since some months. I have worked hard for
implementing some of the fantastic new opcodes, and polishing the
software synthetizer design (it's realy more powerfull now). I have also
implemented a graphical editor for editing segments, and have developped
a complete VRML97 generation capability; now HPKComposer can realy be
used for generating 3D worlds where sounds produced by Csound are
spatialized, without any knowledge of Csound or VRML. A lot of bugs have
been corrected and I am tracking down the last. I have also implemented
a first level of MIDI interaction with the VRML world.
My main problem is finding time for writing the documentation, but if
people are ready to try it without documentation, I can put a preview
version rather soon. Tell me!
The requirement about using existing orc and sco is a good one. If this
only means loading text files and compile it, that's ok, but if it
implies tighter integration with VRML generation or the score generator
algorythms it's more complex. In fact I think that the current Csound
structure is not usable for building instrument library, because of the
lack of score parameters standardisation (what about amplitude,
pitch..). I understand the flexibility, but then it's more diificult to
build high level score genrerators. Maybe it should be possible to
standardize any instrument parameters like it is done in HPKComposer or
Silence: p4=pitch, p5=amplitude... even if they are not used in the
instrument. Another area I have found frustrating is the function
definition approach. The definition should be in the instrument not in
the score, so you can use any instrument anywhere without thinking about
the function number. I know this is using more memory, but this is no
more an issue now.
Csound is realy great and the works produced by people on the list and
made freely available is oustanding, and even more important they
continue to challenge themselves for improving it.Please don't stop.....

jean-pierre lemoine http://hplank.inetpc.com



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From: Richard Dobson 
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Subject: Re: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
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I am tempted to mention the 'lost child' of Csound, which is Cscore. It
does require a C compiler (but then, any language is going to require
something!), but it has a set of functions which make it amlost
embarrassingly easy to write scores using whatever algorithm you fancy. 

In the standard implementation of Csound, you write your Cscore module,
and link it in with Csound itself. Which some might well feel is a bit
OTT. It is possible to convert the Cscore routines into a form suitable
for writing a self-contained program (which is what CDP did when it
first ported Csound), enabling you to include commandline arguments ad
lib. I think John had it on his list of possible things to do, but it's
the sort of thing which tends to slip down priority lists!

In the good-ol'-days there seemed little need to make the sco language
more elaborate, simply because anyone in a position to use Csound would
automatically have access to a compiler, and not think twice about using
it. Basically, just about any scripting language can be used to create
scores - even BASIC. Certainly Java could do it - you could probably
even do it with a spreadsheet. Educated fleas might have a problem, or
two.

If the parsing of scores gets more complex, the latency between
launching Csound and getting output will only increase. It makes much
more sense to me to keep the native syntax as simple as possible, and
use external methods to generate comples scores. It then just a question
of ~which~ external method.

Richard Dobson  

Bill DeWitt wrote:
> 
> The DirectCSound loops are cool. Mr. Maldonado was kind enough to reply to a
> private post concerning a few false assumptions I had and I was able to get
> it to work quite well. Of course...
> 
>         ...Now I want MORE! I want conditional statements! I want branching! I want
> independent variables! I want a full scripting language!
> 


-- 
Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page!
http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd
CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm


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Hi everyone!
I have an interesting problem with MIDI here.  I have a couple of sounds
that I use in improvisation, and I want to program an ostinato to start
when I switch to these patches.  So far I have done it by using a low note
to trigger the ostinato in an xtratim statement, but that means I have to
keep hitting the low note periodically or else the ostinato stops.
Anyway, my question is this:  Is it possible to use either a program
change or a controller (bank) change to be interpreted as a noteon
message?  I want Csound to reinitialize a note every x seconds as long as
controller 0 = whatever.  Does anybody know how I might go about this?
Thanks in advance!

				Kevin Gallager, kgallagh@astro.temple.edu
				Web - http://astro.temple.edu/~kgallagh



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To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, Sukandar Kartadinata 
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Subject: Re: ADI Extended Csound
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I have experience with the ADI card (last year's version). It worked quite
well, with a few minor clicks that also can be heard in many Csound scores
(I did not spend a lot of effort trying to get them to go away).  I ran the
board in a Pentium 166, and the realtime performance was about the same as
regular Csound on my new Pentium II 450. If the ADI people have been
tracking host processor performance (I don't know the answer to this), there
should be about a 5X gain in speed over the host processor. If the ADI
people have not been tracking host processor performance, the host processor
will catch up with the DSP chips in about 2 or 3 years since the original
release.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sukandar Kartadinata 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk 
Date: Monday, March 08, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: ADI Extended Csound


>Hi everbody, I'm new to this list. My interest in Csound got revived after
>I found out about that PCI card by Analog Devices which is supposed to run
>an extended version of Csound. Has anyone experience/opinions to share ? In
>particular I'm curious if it is possible to transfer the resulting DSP-code
>to a standalone DSP board (like the EZ-KIT) ? Also, how is realtime
>performance on other platforms ?
>
>Thanks,
>Sukandar
>
>
>
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>Sukandar Kartadinata
>Custom Music Technology
>Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
>http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>



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Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 01:05:50 +0000
From: Larry Troxler 
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Subject: Re: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
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Bill DeWitt wrote:
> And so far I have only found
> broken links for Common Music and a hint that I'll have to use a DOS box to
> run it anyway.

Oh, how horrible! A DOS Box! That's text-only, isn't it !?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist - just teasing :-)

The links should work tho, if not try starting at
http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu and go from there.

Now, as much as I like Common Music and wish more people used it, and as
much as it is encouraging for me to see a number of people recommending
it, I think that perhaps the overhead in learning a new programming
language (Lisp) is being downplayed a bit, especially since you say,
Bill, that you don't want to learn an other language. In my own case, as
someone that was used to C, it seemed strange at first and took a while
to get used to it. Sure, the learning curve investment paid off in the
end, and I'm very happy with the Common Music environment. And, I really
am impressed with the power, interactivity, and fast development times
that Lisp seems to afford. I think it's just an historical accident that
Lisp never really gained a critial mass of acceptance.That being said,
however, reading and tweaking Lisp code surely wasn't something that in
a couple days time, I was able to feel comfortable with. There was some
initial effort.

SO,
I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to use a powerfull
algorithmic composition environment, that provides great support for
both sequencer-like and algorithmic composition, lets  you output MIDI,
Csound, CLM, and postscript-formatted staff notation, provides a set of
recursive "item stream" types for algorithmic composition, has a
powerfull scale/ mode description mechanism, some pitch-class set
functions, etc, etc, then it will be worth it for you to get Common
Music running.

HOWEVER, 
If all you want to do is figure out how to repeat notes in a score, and
only need to solve that particular problem, then IMHO Common Music is
overkill. Use whatever scripting language you are comfortable with to
generate your score file. Like someone said, even a spreadsheet will do
the trick. Or almost any other language, Visual Basic, a Unix shell, a
Microsoft Word macro, will work.   That's sort of the prevailing
attitude about the Csound score language. Rather than enhancing the
score language itself, most people are happy to use whatever programming
tools they are comfortable with, to generate a score file.

In this sense, you can almost compare the score-file format to the
MIDI-file format, in the sense that both are low-level, direct
representations. Consider that even though a number of utilities are
available to generate a MIDI file, from an ASCII equivalent, that not
many people will like to type in the MIDI messages at that level.
Instead, most people use a MIDI sequencer, which can easily repeat
sections of events, transpose, shift in time, and the like.

Larry



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Date:  9 Mar 99 02:20:22 America/Fort_Wayne
From: Robert Junior Mcnulty 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Csound programming
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Attention Windows 98 users!!
I am going to make a windows 98 version of Csound.
But, if you use DGJPP, I need help in settting that compiler for the prog=
ect.
What flags to use with Gnu C is what I need.
Thanks.
Robert

____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D=
1


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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 22:05:51 -0500
From: "Job M. van Zuijlen" 
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To: Csound List 
Subject: Re: The Book,"Computer Music in C" Where! How!
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You may also want to check out "A Programmer's Guide To Sound" by Tim
Kientzle (Addison-Wesley, 1998), which discusses sound and MIDI
programming in C++.  Comes with CD-ROM with source code.

Job van Zuijlen

SONICMAN wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>     I have seen many a reference made to a book called "Computer music
> in C", but I have never been able to get a copy of this book. I've
> searched amazon & Barnes and Noble + all over the web. Is this the only
> book that tells how to work with raw C code and create sounds?
> 
>


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From: markg@pacifier.com
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I'm checking out Common Music. I've just installed it and it seems to come
up ok, but when I enter stella and try the "help help" command I get the
following:

Stella [Top-Level]: help help

*** - MAKE-PATHNAME: illegal :DIRECTORY argument (:ABSOLUTE "commonmusic"
"CM" "doc/dict")
The following restarts are available:
R1 = Return to Top-Level.
R2 = Exit Top-Level.
1. Break> R1

Anyone know what might be causing this? 

BTW, I am somewhat familiar with common lisp...

Thanks,

--mark


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Wow. 

I don't know how to solve your problem (you don't say which OS), but yo
are most certainly asking on the wrong list! This is the Csound list,
and you would be much better off either mailing Rick Taube directly, or
asking this on the cmdist list at Stanford.

Yes, I know, there have been a number of off-topic post to the csound
list about Common Music (I myself included), but IMHO once we get beyond
general advocacy issues and on to technical details, then it's
*definitely* time to post to the appropriate list :-)
 

:
> 
> I'm checking out Common Music. I've just installed it and it seems to come
> up ok, but when I enter stella and try the "help help" command I get the
> following:
> 
> Stella [Top-Level]: help help
> 
> *** - MAKE-PATHNAME: illegal :DIRECTORY argument (:ABSOLUTE "commonmusic"
> "CM" "doc/dict")
> The following restarts are available:
> R1 = Return to Top-Level.
> R2 = Exit Top-Level.
> 1. Break> R1
> 
> Anyone know what might be causing this?
> 
> BTW, I am somewhat familiar with common lisp...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> --mark

--  Larry Troxler --  lt@westnet.com  --  Patterson, NY USA  --



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>
> Bill DeWitt wrote:
> > And so far I have only found
> > broken links for Common Music and a hint that I'll have to use
> a DOS box to
> > run it anyway.
>
> Oh, how horrible! A DOS Box! That's text-only, isn't it !?!?

	Yeah, well... everytime I try to cut and paste in a DOS box I stub my mouse
finger!

> Sorry, couldn't resist - just teasing :-)
>
> The links should work tho, if not try starting at
> http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu and go from there.

	Got it.

  That's sort of the prevailing
> attitude about the Csound score language. Rather than enhancing the
> score language itself, most people are happy to use whatever programming
> tools they are comfortable with, to generate a score file.

	Sure, I can see that. But it still seems rather trivial to add a few
if/then, for/next type statements to what is already a -deep- system. Just
for convenience's sake, so that one could still just write a .sco for csound
to chew on.

But... since I can't do it (or won't) I guess I'll shut up.



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Hi all:

I may have already asked this before, but I can't remember any specific
answers.

Is there a way to do frequency shifting in Csound?  By that, I mean
single-sideband amplitude modulation, where only one of the modulation
sidebands is heard (unlike ring modulation, where both of the sidebands
are heard).  I would think that this could be accomplished with a phase
vocoder, by adding a fixed offset to every component, but I am not sure
how to do this in Csound.

In the analog realm (and in the digital implementation used in the
Hyperprism plug-in from Arboretum), frequency shifting uses a Hilbert
Transform as an integral part of the process.  Does anyone know if an
orchestra exists for implementing this? If not, I might work on
developing a Hilbert opcode - it should be fairly straightforward,
although it would be nice to have both an FIR and IIR implementation.
Mind you, I am still not great at programming C...

Also, on a related note, anyone here have experience with DIPT?

Thanks,

Sean Costello


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On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 markg@pacifier.com wrote:

> I'm checking out Common Music. I've just installed it and it seems to come
> up ok, but when I enter stella and try the "help help" command I get the
> following:
> 
> Stella [Top-Level]: help help
> 
> *** - MAKE-PATHNAME: illegal :DIRECTORY argument (:ABSOLUTE "commonmusic"
> "CM" "doc/dict")

No, we don't know what causes this, but just yesterday someone
else ran into it. However, this person did never have problems
before, so it's hard to track down.  could you send me a
backtrace?  Also, what is the full pathname of your installation?

the output of (lisp-implementation-version) and (cm-version) 
would also be helpful as would be a hint whether you are running
emacs or not.  (is anyone on earth really using this dos shell
thing they ship with windows??)

-Tobias




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Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:41:29 +0100
From: Gabriel Maldonado 
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I suggest you to use an instrument activated by the score whith the duration of the entire
realtime session, which senses the midi messages arriving. Whith a series of if..goto
statements you can redirect to several code blocks,each one does a different action
according to what MIDI message you send to the MIDI port
Gabriel

Kevin Gallagher wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone!
> I have an interesting problem with MIDI here.  I have a couple of sounds
> that I use in improvisation, and I want to program an ostinato to start
> when I switch to these patches.  So far I have done it by using a low note
> to trigger the ostinato in an xtratim statement, but that means I have to
> keep hitting the low note periodically or else the ostinato stops.
> Anyway, my question is this:  Is it possible to use either a program
> change or a controller (bank) change to be interpreted as a noteon
> message?  I want Csound to reinitialize a note every x seconds as long as
> controller 0 = whatever.  Does anybody know how I might go about this?
> Thanks in advance!
> 
>                                 Kevin Gallager, kgallagh@astro.temple.edu
>                                 Web - http://astro.temple.edu/~kgallagh

-- 
Gabriel Maldonado

http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm



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Randomizing numerical values in orc's or sco's HOW?

What is the command that can be placed where an integer is normally
placed to create random values ? In orc's..... and the command for use
in sco's....?

Thank you,
SONICMAN=out



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Using a C/C++ compiler to make sco's?

    How do I use a C/C++ compiler to generate scores? This has been
recommended many times. Are there any tutorials out there on this? Any
examples?
Send 'em over.

Thanks,
SONICMAN=out



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From: SONICMAN 
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When I see " ...it must be a power of 2..", in the Csound manual
mentioned several times, what does "a Power of 2" mean.

Please explain this mathmatical concept to me.

Also anybody know of any easy to understand books that explain
mathmatical formulas, as in how to read them, knowing what all the / and
( )* mean

Thanks,
SONICMAN=out



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2^1 = 2
2^2 = 2*2 = 4
2^3 = 2*2*2 = 8
2^4 = 2*2*2*2 = 16
2^5 = 2*2*2*2*2 = 32
2^7 = 2*2*2*2*2*2 = 64
2^8 = 2*2*2*2*2*2*2 = 128
2^9 = 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2 = 512
.......... 

SONICMAN wrote:
> 
> When I see " ...it must be a power of 2..", in the Csound manual
> mentioned several times, what does "a Power of 2" mean.
> 
> Please explain this mathmatical concept to me.
> 
> Also anybody know of any easy to understand books that explain
> mathmatical formulas, as in how to read them, knowing what all the / and
> ( )* mean
> 
> Thanks,
> SONICMAN=out


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You wrote:
> When I see " ...it must be a power of 2..", in the Csound manual
> mentioned several times, what does "a Power of 2" mean.
>
> Please explain this mathmatical concept to me.
>
> Also anybody know of any easy to understand books that explain
> mathmatical formulas, as in how to read them, knowing what all the / and
> ( )* mean
>
> Thanks,
> SONICMAN=out

If you don't know some mathematical basics like powers, I get the feeling  
that Csound is going to be a long hard road for you.

A 'power' simply means that the number in question (in this case 2) is  
multiplied by itself a certain number of times.

It is often notated as 2 ^ n   (2 to the power of n, whatever n is)

So the list of powers of 2 goes like this:

2
4 (2 x 2), or 2 to the power of 2
8 (2 x 2 x 2), or 2 to the power of 3
16 (2 x 2 x 2 x 2), or 2 to the power of 4
32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536...

Important ones tend to be 256 (2 ^ 8) and 65536 (2 ^ 16), but you can go as  
high as you want...

The '^' notation is sort of a computer short-hand of the way you would write  
it on paper. On paper, you would normally write the second number slightly  
above the first

eg

 3
2  = 8

A high-school level maths book should get you through this sort of stuff, as  
would (possibly) a "Dummy's Guide" to programming in C. Actually, the latter  
would probably be better as it would use the computer-conventions for  
representing the maths rather than the paper-based representations.

Stephen

Date1999-03-08 14:22
FromBill DeWitt
SubjectRE: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
The DirectCSound loops are cool. Mr. Maldonado was kind enough to reply to a
private post concerning a few false assumptions I had and I was able to get
it to work quite well. Of course...

	...Now I want MORE! I want conditional statements! I want branching! I want
independent variables! I want a full scripting language!

	Is it me or does it seem like years and years of hard, valuable work has
gone into developing the .ORC language while little effort has been put into
the .SCO side of CSound? Not that I am complaining or anything(or that I
could do anything about it myself), it just seems like there is more than
anyone can learn in the orchestra but score accepts almost nothing but
linear listings.

	I guess now that POV-Ray has put function-like macros in their scene
description language I have gotten spoiled...



> There are a variety of answers to the question.
>
> 1) Use r score command, but this fouls up with sections
>
> 2) Personally I use C for this purpose as it is so easy to hack up C
>    programs, and anyway most of my music is generated in C
>
> 3) Use schedule opcode to repeat the note with a gkoval counter
>
> 4) Wait for me (or someone) to check out Gabriel's changes for
>    none-section repeats using { and } to denote region.  This seems
>    the best approach to me, but I need some time, and Yr1 C, yr2
>    compilers, examinations, next commercial software release on Mac,
>    and family problems are limiting my time.
>
> I expect i have forgotten some solution.......
>
> ==John ff
>

Date1999-03-08 16:15
FromStephen Brandon - SysAdmin
SubjectRe: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
Bill DeWitt wrote:

> ...Now I want MORE! I want conditional statements! I want branching! I want
> independent variables! I want a full scripting language!
>
> Is it me or does it seem like years and years of hard, valuable work has
> gone into developing the .ORC language while little effort has been put
> into the .SCO side of CSound? Not that I am complaining or anything(or that
> I could do anything about it myself), it just seems like there is more than
> anyone can learn in the orchestra but score accepts almost nothing but
> linear listings.

Lots of work has gone into developing the parts of Csound which cannot be  
easily done in other "languages". The score files, on the other hand, can  
very easily be generated in almost any language under the sun. Perl, C, C++,  
ObjC, Pascal, Lisp & derivatives, BASIC, FORTH, whatever.

That's not to say that Csound should not be improved in this way. But where  
do you stop? I think you will find that many/most serious Csound users use  
other languages or applications/programs to do their score generation. You  
might say that if Csound had better score capabilities then they would not  
have to, but I would counter that by saying that composers/users will  
gravitate towards whatever suits their needs BEST. I think that trying to  
refine a complex score file format which suits everyone, or even most users,  
would be a very difficult task. There have already been minor flame wars over  
whether looping should be done like language X or Y.

I am sure that further refinements of the score language will take place,  
but I would recommend users who wish to do complex score processing to  
examine things like Common Music, CLM, perl, and C [*]. Learning any of these  
4 may be difficult and take time, but it's rewarding, and opens the mind to  
new possibilities of data processing and how it relates to the compositional  
process.

[* And lots of others. Please, anyone who has a cool score generator program  
I have not mentioned, don't take offence. I know there are lots out  
there...]

Stephen Brandon
---
Systems Administrator,
Department of Music,		e-mail: S.Brandon@music.gla.ac.uk
14 University Gardens,			(NeXT mail welcomed)
University of Glasgow,		Tel: 	+44 (0)141 330 6065
Glasgow.			Fax:	+44 (0)141 330 3518
Scotland

Date1999-03-08 17:26
FromBill DeWitt
SubjectRE: Okay, Not so simple "repeat" command?
>
> Lots of work has gone into developing the parts of Csound which
> cannot be
> easily done in other "languages". The score files, on the other
> hand, can
> very easily be generated in almost any language under the sun.
> Perl, C, C++,
> ObjC, Pascal, Lisp & derivatives, BASIC, FORTH, whatever.
>
> That's not to say that Csound should not be improved in this way.
> But where
> do you stop? I think you will find that many/most serious Csound
> users use
> other languages or applications/programs to do their score
> generation.

	Sure, which is what I'm doing right now. Actually my JavaScript thingie is
looking like a very handy tool. It just seems that a scripting score would
be relatively simple as compared to what I see in orchestra. As for which
format, there are already a bunch of conditional statements in the orchestra
that would seem to be the sensible template for score generation. That way
most of the bickering would have already have been done.8-)

	My conversation with someone else just made me realize that POV-Ray
includes enough functions to write a .sco file recursively! That way one
could generate the score for an animation while actually rendering the
animation! Too Bizarre!