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AXCsound (was: Re: SOAL, csound and programing)

Date1998-11-05 13:13
FromJay Chernick
SubjectAXCsound (was: Re: SOAL, csound and programing)
Gabriel Maldonado wrote:

> I have a big problem with AXCsound: when I double-click the exe file, simply nothing
> happens. I already registered the AXCsound.dll file (btw the old version of AXCsound runs
> OK). I suppose it is a problem of Compiler core files. Is there someone in the list wich
> has encountered the same problem?

I have!! Shame too - I'd really like to give it a try.

Jay


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From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject:  Linux warning
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Message written at 4 Nov 1998 23:51:45 +0000

Just because the Linux system has a version number of 3.49 users
should not believe that it is the same 3.49 as on UNIX, PC and Mac.
It is considerably different, with some 3.48 sources, and some which
have no relationship to any I have seen before.

So when I place 3.491 on the servers on Thursday, please do not think
it is related in any way with 3.49a, b c or d from the Linux group.

==John


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Date:     Thu, 5 Nov 98 13:20:55 GMT
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject:  Version 3.491
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Message written at 5 Nov 1998 10:32:24 +0000

All being well I will have transferred files for Bath version 3.491 to
the server, for Windows, Console mode, and DOS, as well as sources in
ZIP and tar.gz formats.  I hope also to build an Irix5.3 binary (I
have an Irix4.0 but it seems that I am the only person in the world
still using that system).  Solaris binaries will follow.  It also runs
on my Linux machine.

The release notes are below.  You will see that this is a minor change.
==John ffitch


Release Notes for 3.491
=======================

These are the release notes for version 3.491, which will eventually
becone 3.50

Language Changes
----------------

hetro had a wrong constant which would give rise to a little noise.

Opcode Fixes
------------

sndwarp had bugs on Linux


New Opcodes 
-----------

schedule -- schedule an instrument event
schedwhen -- conditional scheduling

lfo -- Low Frequency Oscilator with 6 shapes


------------------------------------------------------------------------
==John ff
  1998 Nov 1
========================================================================

schedule, schedwhen

	schedule	inst, iwhen, idur, ....
	schedwhen	ktrigger, kinst, kwhen, kdur, ....

PERFORMANCE

schedule adds a new score event.  The arguments are the same as in a
score.  The when time (p2) is measured from the time of this event.

If the duration is zero or negative the new event is of MIDI type, and
inherits the release sub-event from the scheduling instruction.

In the case of schedwhen the event is only scheduled when the krate
value ktrigger is first non-zero.

[These functions incorporate ideas and code from G.Maldonado]

Examples:

;; Double hit and 1sec separation
instr 1
      schedule	2,  1, 0.5, p4, p5
a1    shaker	p4, 60, 0.999, 0, 100, 0
      out	a1
endin

instr 2
a1    marimba   p4, cpspch(p5), p6, p7, 2, 6.0, 0.05, 1, 0.1
      out       a1
endin 

instr 3 
kr    table	kr, 1
      schedwhen	kr, 1, 0.25, 1, p4, p5
endin
------------------------------------------------------------------------

lfo

kr	lfo		kamp, kcps[, itype]
ar	lfo		kamp, kcps[, itype]

DESCRIPTION

A LFO of various shapes

INITALIZATION

itype -- determine the form of the oscilator
  (default) 0:	sine
            1:  triangles
	    2:  square (biplar)
	    3:  square (unipolar)
	    4:  saw-tooth
	    5:  saw-tooth(down)

The sine wave is implemented as a 4096 table and linear
interpolation.  The others are calculated.

PERFORMANCE

ar, kr - output signal
kamp - amplitude
kcps - frequency of oscilator

Example:
instr 1
kp    lfo	10, 5, 4
ar    oscil	p4, p5+kp, 1
      out	ar
endin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:37:40 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini 
To: Csound mailing list , 
    Csound Linux/Unix Development Group 
Subject: Re: Linux warning
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On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:

> Message written at 4 Nov 1998 23:51:45 +0000
> 
> Just because the Linux system has a version number of 3.49 users
> should not believe that it is the same 3.49 as on UNIX, PC and Mac.
> It is considerably different, with some 3.48 sources, and some which
> have no relationship to any I have seen before.
> 
> So when I place 3.491 on the servers on Thursday, please do not think
> it is related in any way with 3.49a, b c or d from the Linux group.
> 

In fact, they are very easy to recognize at first glance: the distribution
from the linux group has three numbers (next one for example could be:
3.491.0a) and the third number contains a letter to indicate a patch
level, while the canonical linux distribution contains only two (in any
case, the linux distribution will always contain one more number than
the canonical one). The numbering scheme was chosen on purpose to
be able to discern distributions.

When using the linux distribution, bug reports may be directed to the
linux csound mailing list (maybe unaptly named csound-unix-dev@ilogic.com.au)

Are'nt Linux people lucky to be able to choose among different distributions?

Cheers

Nicola

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
 
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:37:40 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini 
To: Csound mailing list , 
    Csound Linux/Unix Development Group 
Subject: [CUD] Re: Linux warning
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On Thu, 5 Nov 1998 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:

> Message written at 4 Nov 1998 23:51:45 +0000
> 
> Just because the Linux system has a version number of 3.49 users
> should not believe that it is the same 3.49 as on UNIX, PC and Mac.
> It is considerably different, with some 3.48 sources, and some which
> have no relationship to any I have seen before.
> 
> So when I place 3.491 on the servers on Thursday, please do not think
> it is related in any way with 3.49a, b c or d from the Linux group.
> 

In fact, they are very easy to recognize at first glance: the distribution
from the linux group has three numbers (next one for example could be:
3.491.0a) and the third number contains a letter to indicate a patch
level, while the canonical linux distribution contains only two (in any
case, the linux distribution will always contain one more number than
the canonical one). The numbering scheme was chosen on purpose to
be able to discern distributions.

When using the linux distribution, bug reports may be directed to the
linux csound mailing list (maybe unaptly named csound-unix-dev@ilogic.com.au)

Are'nt Linux people lucky to be able to choose among different distributions?

Cheers

Nicola

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
 
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.



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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 07:42:47 -0500
From: Jean Piche 
Subject: [CUD] Re: Linux warning
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Grumbles something vaguely incoherent and stupid relating to Rodney King and
goes back to eating his broccoli. Getting my 1968 BSA tomorrow (version 0.93).

-- 
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/


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Date:     Thu, 5 Nov 98 14:00:12 GMT
From: J P Fitch 
To: Nicola Bernardini 
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject:  Re:  Linux warning
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You totally miss the point.  Your 3.49x is neither a superset nor a
subset of my 3.49 (and I invented version numbers on Csound so you
calling your different system 3.49... is misleading; basically I claim
prior art!).  So the numbers are misleading; there are bugs in your
version not in mine, and probably vice versa.  

And ... No I do not think the Linux people are lucky to be able to
choose.  I think they are being confused and mislead.  I want my SGI
system at the university to behave the same as my PC system, my MAC
system and my Linux system.  That seems not to be possible without
building it oneself on some subset of the platforms.


I am not sure if I have to explain the entire history of this; some of
teh Csound community are trying to produce a coherent tool for all
musicians regardless of their hardware platform.  Do I have to spell
it all out?

==John ff


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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:26:46 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini 
To: J P Fitch 
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re:  Linux warning
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On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, J P Fitch wrote:

[snip]
> And ... No I do not think the Linux people are lucky to be able to
> choose.  I think they are being confused and mislead.  I want my SGI
> system at the university to behave the same as my PC system, my MAC
> system and my Linux system.  That seems not to be possible without
> building it oneself on some subset of the platforms.

They don't have to use the linux version. They can very well use
yours.

> I am not sure if I have to explain the entire history of this; some of
> teh Csound community are trying to produce a coherent tool for all
> musicians regardless of their hardware platform.  Do I have to spell
> it all out?

That's all very good. Perhaps people can decide for themselves, or
do we have to spell out all their do's and don'ts?

Bye

Nicola

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
 
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:26:46 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini 
To: J P Fitch 
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re:  Linux warning
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On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, J P Fitch wrote:

[snip]
> And ... No I do not think the Linux people are lucky to be able to
> choose.  I think they are being confused and mislead.  I want my SGI
> system at the university to behave the same as my PC system, my MAC
> system and my Linux system.  That seems not to be possible without
> building it oneself on some subset of the platforms.

They don't have to use the linux version. They can very well use
yours.

> I am not sure if I have to explain the entire history of this; some of
> teh Csound community are trying to produce a coherent tool for all
> musicians regardless of their hardware platform.  Do I have to spell
> it all out?

That's all very good. Perhaps people can decide for themselves, or
do we have to spell out all their do's and don'ts?

Bye

Nicola

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
 
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:01:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Troxler 
To: J P Fitch 
cc: Nicola Bernardini , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Multiple versions (3.49, linux)
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Perhaps I shouldn't really be commenting  on this, as I haven't actively
been using Csound lately. But I will anyway :-)

I'm with John Fitch on this one. I can't see any possible advantage to
having multiple versions. Can someone please explain why it is 
needed in this case? 
Is there some reason why the sources can't be merged?

If it is a temporary situation, due to lack of time to bring every thing
back to the main distribution, perhaps the Linux version should be renamed
to avoid confusion.

I sadly suspect there must be some political garbage going on here :-(

Larry


--  Larry Troxler  --  lt@westnet.com  --  Patterson, NY USA  --
  



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:01:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Troxler 
To: J P Fitch 
cc: Nicola Bernardini , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Multiple versions (3.49, linux)
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Perhaps I shouldn't really be commenting  on this, as I haven't actively
been using Csound lately. But I will anyway :-)

I'm with John Fitch on this one. I can't see any possible advantage to
having multiple versions. Can someone please explain why it is 
needed in this case? 
Is there some reason why the sources can't be merged?

If it is a temporary situation, due to lack of time to bring every thing
back to the main distribution, perhaps the Linux version should be renamed
to avoid confusion.

I sadly suspect there must be some political garbage going on here :-(

Larry


--  Larry Troxler  --  lt@westnet.com  --  Patterson, NY USA  --
  



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:38:08 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini 
To: Larry Troxler 
cc: J P Fitch , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Multiple versions (3.49, linux)
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On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Larry Troxler wrote:

[snip]
> I'm with John Fitch on this one. I can't see any possible advantage to
> having multiple versions. Can someone please explain why it is 
> needed in this case? 

Can you see advantages in having instead one unique version? Could you spell
them out?

> Is there some reason why the sources can't be merged?

No. In fact I do that all the time :-)

[snip]
> I sadly suspect there must be some political garbage going on here :-(

Huh? Which would be? Can you please be more specific?

Relax,

Nicola

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
 
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:38:08 +0100 (ROM )
From: Nicola Bernardini 
To: Larry Troxler 
cc: J P Fitch , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Multiple versions (3.49, linux)
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On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Larry Troxler wrote:

[snip]
> I'm with John Fitch on this one. I can't see any possible advantage to
> having multiple versions. Can someone please explain why it is 
> needed in this case? 

Can you see advantages in having instead one unique version? Could you spell
them out?

> Is there some reason why the sources can't be merged?

No. In fact I do that all the time :-)

[snip]
> I sadly suspect there must be some political garbage going on here :-(

Huh? Which would be? Can you please be more specific?

Relax,

Nicola

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
 
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture.  Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.



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From: Sean Costello 
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CC: Larry Troxler , J P Fitch , 
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Nicola Bernardini wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Larry Troxler wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > I'm with John Fitch on this one. I can't see any possible advantage to
> > having multiple versions. Can someone please explain why it is
> > needed in this case?
> 
> Can you see advantages in having instead one unique version? Could you spell
> them out?

Think of it as the difference between Java and MS Java.  Java is an
attempt to create a language that runs on all platforms, so that code
created on one platform can run on all other platforms without any
changes.  MS Java is an alteration of this code, so that the code is
optimized for MS platforms.  By making Java platform specific, Microsoft
has tried to subvert the whole platform-independent nature of Java.

Csound, as it currently stands, is fairly platform independent.  True,
there are going to be differences between platforms, such as the types
of sound files generated (.wav, .aiff, etc.), as well as differing
real-time capabilities.  Still, the strength of Csound is that you can
write code on a PC, send it out on this list, and know that everyone out
there can run your code, whether they are on a Mac, a Silicon Graphics
machine, or a Linux platform.  This quality of platform independence,
plus the large number of machines that Csound runs on, makes it the
closest thing yet to a universal synthesis language.

I use both Linux and Windows for my Csound work.  It is VERY IMPORTANT
for me that code I write on one platform be able to work on the other
platform.  If I use the moogvcf opcode (a very nice addition to 3.49,
btw), I would expect that ANY program designated "Csound 3.49.x" be able
to run this opcode.  I rely upon different versions of Csound acting the
same.  

> > I sadly suspect there must be some political garbage going on here :-(
> 
> Huh? Which would be? Can you please be more specific?

See the Java vs. MS Java comparison above.

I, for one, would welcome any work that you or anyone else is doing to
improve Csound.  My one request is that there not be any conflicting
standards.  If a program is designated "Csound 3.xx.x" I would expect it
to behave the same across all platforms.  All the opcodes need to be in
there, all of the commands should work the same, and so on.  Otherwise,
Csound is no longer a universal language.

My recommendations:

1) If your changes can fit within the general scope of all Csound
platforms, submit them to wherever the "official" Csound distribution
source is.  This isn't about any sort of power play; this is about
keeping a consistent standard that everyone can use.

2) If your changes are Linux-specific, and can't work on other
platforms, create a new version of Csound that is labeled in such a way
as to set it apart from other versions of Csound.  Call it Lsound, or
LXCsound, or something like that.  Just don't call it "Csound 3.49.x"
when it is not compatible with other versions of Csound 3.49.x.  Set it
apart from the other versions, so people will know the differences. 
This works with other Csound offshoots (like Extended Csound, RTsound,
DirectCsound).  

Sean Costello


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Nicola Bernardini wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Larry Troxler wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> > I'm with John Fitch on this one. I can't see any possible advantage to
> > having multiple versions. Can someone please explain why it is
> > needed in this case?
> 
> Can you see advantages in having instead one unique version? Could you spell
> them out?

Think of it as the difference between Java and MS Java.  Java is an
attempt to create a language that runs on all platforms, so that code
created on one platform can run on all other platforms without any
changes.  MS Java is an alteration of this code, so that the code is
optimized for MS platforms.  By making Java platform specific, Microsoft
has tried to subvert the whole platform-independent nature of Java.

Csound, as it currently stands, is fairly platform independent.  True,
there are going to be differences between platforms, such as the types
of sound files generated (.wav, .aiff, etc.), as well as differing
real-time capabilities.  Still, the strength of Csound is that you can
write code on a PC, send it out on this list, and know that everyone out
there can run your code, whether they are on a Mac, a Silicon Graphics
machine, or a Linux platform.  This quality of platform independence,
plus the large number of machines that Csound runs on, makes it the
closest thing yet to a universal synthesis language.

I use both Linux and Windows for my Csound work.  It is VERY IMPORTANT
for me that code I write on one platform be able to work on the other
platform.  If I use the moogvcf opcode (a very nice addition to 3.49,
btw), I would expect that ANY program designated "Csound 3.49.x" be able
to run this opcode.  I rely upon different versions of Csound acting the
same.  

> > I sadly suspect there must be some political garbage going on here :-(
> 
> Huh? Which would be? Can you please be more specific?

See the Java vs. MS Java comparison above.

I, for one, would welcome any work that you or anyone else is doing to
improve Csound.  My one request is that there not be any conflicting
standards.  If a program is designated "Csound 3.xx.x" I would expect it
to behave the same across all platforms.  All the opcodes need to be in
there, all of the commands should work the same, and so on.  Otherwise,
Csound is no longer a universal language.

My recommendations:

1) If your changes can fit within the general scope of all Csound
platforms, submit them to wherever the "official" Csound distribution
source is.  This isn't about any sort of power play; this is about
keeping a consistent standard that everyone can use.

2) If your changes are Linux-specific, and can't work on other
platforms, create a new version of Csound that is labeled in such a way
as to set it apart from other versions of Csound.  Call it Lsound, or
LXCsound, or something like that.  Just don't call it "Csound 3.49.x"
when it is not compatible with other versions of Csound 3.49.x.  Set it
apart from the other versions, so people will know the differences. 
This works with other Csound offshoots (like Extended Csound, RTsound,
DirectCsound).  

Sean Costello


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Sergey wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Is there a SCO+ORC for famous endless glissando (titled Song for "Little
> Boy"? I'm not sure) by J.C. Risset?

Hi Sergey:

I actually coded a version of the endless glissando last night.  It
takes a while to compute, but it sounds pretty nice.  I followed the
flowchart of the instrument given in "Computer Music: Synthesis,
Composition and Performance" by Charles Dodge and Thomas A. Jerse, 2nd
edition, p.106-7.  I changed some values according to what sounded best.

Hope this helps,

Sean Costello



; glisssando.orc
; 
; Coded by Sean Costello, costello@seanet.com
; November 4, 1998
;
; This is a version of J.C. Risset's "endless glissando,"
; as described in Dogde and Jerse, "Computer Music: Synthesis,
; Composition and Performance," 2nd edition, p. 106-7.

sr = 22050
kr = 2205
ksmps = 10
nchnls = 1

instr 10

; Determines rate of glissando
irate = p4	

; Determines max amplitude of each oscillator
iamp = p5	

; Determines direction of glissando, by selecting 
; from two different tables in the score.
; 3 selects a glissando that falls in pitch, 
; 4 selects a glissando that rises in pitch.
itable = p6	


kosc1a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, 0
kosc1b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, 0
aosc1	oscili	kosc1a, kosc1b, 1

kosc2a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .1
kosc2b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .1
aosc2	oscili	kosc2a, kosc2b, 1

kosc3a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .2
kosc3b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .2
aosc3	oscili	kosc3a, kosc3b, 1

kosc4a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .3
kosc4b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .3
aosc4	oscili	kosc4a, kosc4b, 1

kosc5a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .4
kosc5b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .4
aosc5	oscili	kosc5a, kosc5b, 1

kosc6a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .5
kosc6b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .5
aosc6	oscili	kosc6a, kosc6b, 1

kosc7a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .6
kosc7b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .6
aosc7	oscili	kosc7a, kosc7b, 1

kosc8a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .7
kosc8b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .7
aosc8	oscili	kosc8a, kosc8b, 1

kosc9a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .8
kosc9b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .8
aosc9	oscili	kosc9a, kosc9b, 1

kosc10a	oscili	iamp, irate, 2, .9
kosc10b	oscili	10000, irate, itable, .9
aosc10	oscili	kosc10a, kosc10b, 1

out aosc1 + aosc2 + aosc3 + aosc4 + aosc5 + aosc6 + aosc7 + aosc8 +
aosc9 + aosc10

endin



; glissando.sco
;
; Coded by Sean Costello, costello@seanet.com
; November 4, 1998


; The following defines a sine table for the audio oscillators.
f1 0 8192 10 1

; The following defines the amplitude envelope for the 
; oscillators.  I used the Gaussian function of GEN 20, as 
; opposed to generating a table with the complicated equation
; that Risset used.
f2 0 8192 20 6

; Defines a table that falls exponentally, from 1 to (2 to the -10
power).
f3 0 8192 5 1 8191 0.0009765625

; Defines a table that rises exponentially, from (2 to the -10 power) to
1.
f4 0 8192 5 0.0009765625 8191 1

i10 0 120 0.01 8000 3
e


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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:12:34 -0800
From: Sean Costello 
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Hi Sergey, Csounders:

I'm sending the following file again.  My email program formatted the
.sco file in such a way that the comments leaked over into following
lines, which would cause syntax errors.  The following should load with
no problems.  BTW, are there any good conventions to follow when sending
.orc and .sco files, so that everyone can read them?

Thanks,

Sean Costello




; glisssando.orc
; 
; Coded by Sean Costello, costello@seanet.com
; November 4, 1998
;
; This is a version of J.C. Risset's "endless glissando,"
; as described in Dogde and Jerse, "Computer Music: Synthesis,
; Composition and Performance," 2nd edition, p. 106-7.

sr = 22050
kr = 2205
ksmps = 10
nchnls = 1

instr 10

; Determines rate of glissando
irate = p4      

; Determines max amplitude of each oscillator
iamp = p5       

; Determines direction of glissando, by selecting 
; from two different tables in the score.
; 3 selects a glissando that falls in pitch, 
; 4 selects a glissando that rises in pitch.
itable = p6     


kosc1a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, 0
kosc1b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, 0
aosc1   oscili  kosc1a, kosc1b, 1

kosc2a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .1
kosc2b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .1
aosc2   oscili  kosc2a, kosc2b, 1

kosc3a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .2
kosc3b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .2
aosc3   oscili  kosc3a, kosc3b, 1

kosc4a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .3
kosc4b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .3
aosc4   oscili  kosc4a, kosc4b, 1

kosc5a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .4
kosc5b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .4
aosc5   oscili  kosc5a, kosc5b, 1

kosc6a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .5
kosc6b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .5
aosc6   oscili  kosc6a, kosc6b, 1

kosc7a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .6
kosc7b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .6
aosc7   oscili  kosc7a, kosc7b, 1

kosc8a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .7
kosc8b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .7
aosc8   oscili  kosc8a, kosc8b, 1

kosc9a  oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .8
kosc9b  oscili  10000, irate, itable, .8
aosc9   oscili  kosc9a, kosc9b, 1

kosc10a oscili  iamp, irate, 2, .9
kosc10b oscili  10000, irate, itable, .9
aosc10  oscili  kosc10a, kosc10b, 1

out aosc1 + aosc2 + aosc3 + aosc4 + aosc5 + aosc6 + aosc7 + aosc8 +
aosc9 + aosc10

endin



; glissando.sco
;
; Coded by Sean Costello, costello@seanet.com
; November 4, 1998


; The following defines a sine table for the audio oscillators.
f1 0 8192 10 1

; The following defines the amplitude envelope for the 
; oscillators.  I used the Gaussian function of GEN 20, as 
; opposed to generating a table with the complicated equation
; that Risset used.
f2 0 8192 20 6

; Defines a table that falls exponentally, 
; from 1 to (2 to the -10 power).
f3 0 8192 5 1 8191 0.0009765625

; Defines a table that rises exponentially, 
; from (2 to the -10 power) to 1.
f4 0 8192 5 0.0009765625 8191 1

i10 0 120 0.01 8000 3
e


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From: Chazzz 
To: csound 
Subject: Re: Re:Eric Scheirer's ICMC paper
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:00:22 -0500
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Thanks  to Hans, Ole , Job and all.
The Ghostscript works fine!
                        Chazzz
-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Chazzz ; csound 
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Re:Eric Scheirer's ICMC paper


>>Eric,
>>    I download the icmc98_ps.ps but couldn't read it. I don't have
anything
>>that reads a postscript document. Any suggestions?
>
>
>Get Ghostscript:
>
>http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/aladdin/
>
>
>



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From: Chazzz 
To: csound 
Subject: Re: page with Music Languages
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:14:01 -0500
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Checked out the site. Can't believe there are so many music languages.
Chazzz
-----Original Message-----
From: roger klaveness 
To: csound ; Sergey 
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: page with Music Languages


>this maybe:
>http://www.nosuch.com/plum/
>
>
>



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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Csound 
Subject: Problem Compiling Winsound?
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:00:40 -0600
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Hi,

Just bought MSC++ Pro and when I try to compile the canonical winsound I
get:

Midisend.c
D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(77) : error
C2061: syntax error : identifier 'LPOVERLAPPED'
D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(78) : error
C2059: syntax error : '}'
D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(86) : error
C2040: 'HWND' : 'struct ' differs in levels of indirection from 'struct
HWND__ *'
D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(100) :
error C2059: syntax error : '}'

etc...

D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(170) :
error C2059: syntax error : ')'
Modal4.c

Since there does not seem to be any mention of rpcasync in the Csound source
code perhaps some configuration setting is incorrect?

Thanks for any help,
Hans Mikelson



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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Csound 
Subject: New Opcodes
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:10:25 -0600
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Hi,

I'm working on the following opcodes, something like:

tanh distortion:
aout  distort ain, koverdrive, kshape1, kshape2

Analog modelling oscillator
aout  moogvco ain, ishape, isine, kpulsewidth, (ileaky, iminfrequency)
possibly others
shape = 1 = Sawtooth
shape = 2 = Square/PWM
shape = 3 = Triangle/variable saw-ramp

If anyone can tell me how to do band-limited oscillator synch let me know.

Regards,
Hans Mikelson



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To: Larry Troxler 
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Subject: Re: Multiple versions (3.49, linux) 
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From: Ed Hall 

In brief, I agree.

First of all, I think everyone involved in this has the best of intentions.
There's been a lot of hard work put in here by a number of individuals.
I think it's important that we understand each others goals, and avoid
if at all possible working at cross-purposes.

I'd argue that the Computer Music community would benefit most from two
somewhat contradictory goals for Csound development.  One, there should
be a single standard version so that time invested learning and using
Csound isn't wasted due to incompatible features, and so that scores and
orchestras can be easily shared by those who wish to do so.  The second
goal is the exploration of new ideas and technologies in computer music
synthesis, and of ways that Csound can be extended to support these new
techniques.

I think John Fitch has done a fine job of harmonizing these two goals.
The capabilities of the "official" version of Csound grow almost
weekly.  In fact, I'd argue that the rate of advancement has been such
that efforts to maintain synchronization between that version and others
has become quite a challenge.  Just the same, I'd argue that keeping
things "in-sync" with the base version is important.  It may be necessary
to fall "out-of-sync" for a while during development, especially if new
features go beyond the complexity of a new opcode, but eventual re-
integration should be an objective.  (As the Linux group knows, an absolute
goal of mine in working on an Alpha port of Csound was that my methods
apply as simply as possible to the Bath version of Csound, and be
maintainable with it.)

I'm not arguing against anyone working on fundamentally incompatible
changes to Csound, such as alternative parsers or versions wedded to
particular hardware or OS's.  But these efforts should be labeled as such--
"Csound-derived," "Foo-Csound," or whatever.  If the Linux group wants
to head in this direction, they should make their intentions explicit
(and come up with a catchy new name to disassociate themselves from
vanilla Csound).  If they want, instead, to insure that "official" Csound
remains Linux-friendly, then it sounds like there are some fences which
need mending.

		-Ed




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In brief, I agree.

First of all, I think everyone involved in this has the best of intentions.
There's been a lot of hard work put in here by a number of individuals.
I think it's important that we understand each others goals, and avoid
if at all possible working at cross-purposes.

I'd argue that the Computer Music community would benefit most from two
somewhat contradictory goals for Csound development.  One, there should
be a single standard version so that time invested learning and using
Csound isn't wasted due to incompatible features, and so that scores and
orchestras can be easily shared by those who wish to do so.  The second
goal is the exploration of new ideas and technologies in computer music
synthesis, and of ways that Csound can be extended to support these new
techniques.

I think John Fitch has done a fine job of harmonizing these two goals.
The capabilities of the "official" version of Csound grow almost
weekly.  In fact, I'd argue that the rate of advancement has been such
that efforts to maintain synchronization between that version and others
has become quite a challenge.  Just the same, I'd argue that keeping
things "in-sync" with the base version is important.  It may be necessary
to fall "out-of-sync" for a while during development, especially if new
features go beyond the complexity of a new opcode, but eventual re-
integration should be an objective.  (As the Linux group knows, an absolute
goal of mine in working on an Alpha port of Csound was that my methods
apply as simply as possible to the Bath version of Csound, and be
maintainable with it.)

I'm not arguing against anyone working on fundamentally incompatible
changes to Csound, such as alternative parsers or versions wedded to
particular hardware or OS's.  But these efforts should be labeled as such--
"Csound-derived," "Foo-Csound," or whatever.  If the Linux group wants
to head in this direction, they should make their intentions explicit
(and come up with a catchy new name to disassociate themselves from
vanilla Csound).  If they want, instead, to insure that "official" Csound
remains Linux-friendly, then it sounds like there are some fences which
need mending.

		-Ed




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To: Csound list 
From: rasmus ekman 
Subject: Endless/shepard tones 
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At 08:12 1998-11-05 , Sergey wrote:

>Is there a SCO+ORC for famous endless glissando?

A) In Endless.orc/sco, supplied in Examples.zip file from Bath/Montreal, or in
ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/mirrors/dream/platforms/pc/orchestras+sco
res/others_examples/

B) ACCCI instrument  02.44.1

        re



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From: Michael Gogins 
To: Hans Mikelson , Csound 
Subject: Re: Problem Compiling Winsound?
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:19:56 -0500
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I ran into this problem in building AXCsound. My sources resolve it. I cut
and paste below my solution.

Just above where it says "#include  put:

#ifdef AXCSOUND    //    Or whatever...
#define __RPCASYNC_H__
#endif

This prevents rpcasync.h from being scanned; there are definitions in
midisend.c that do the same job.

In general, AXCSound is Gabriel Maldonado's DirectSound 2.1 compiled with
Visual C++ 6.0, plus my ActiveX control code, so you may find other clues in
there.

-----Original Message-----
From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Csound 
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 5:02 PM
Subject: Problem Compiling Winsound?


>Hi,
>
>Just bought MSC++ Pro and when I try to compile the canonical winsound I
>get:
>
>Midisend.c
>D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(77) :
error
>C2061: syntax error : identifier 'LPOVERLAPPED'
>D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(78) :
error
>C2059: syntax error : '}'
>D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(86) :
error
>C2040: 'HWND' : 'struct ' differs in levels of indirection from 'struct
>HWND__ *'
>D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(100) :
>error C2059: syntax error : '}'
>
>etc...
>
>D:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\INCLUDE\rpcasync.h(170) :
>error C2059: syntax error : ')'
>Modal4.c
>
>Since there does not seem to be any mention of rpcasync in the Csound
source
>code perhaps some configuration setting is incorrect?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>Hans Mikelson
>



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Subject: Re: Multiple versions (3.49, linux)
References: 
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Although (or maybe because) I'm not a Linux user, I wasn't aware that
there were actually two versions.  I thought it was more a situation
like the PowerMac where someone other than John builds it, but tries to
stay in sync.  I think that makes sense, unless, to put it bluntly, the
"official" version sucks, but even then it would be better to try to
resolve it.  There are not many programs that are portable, but Csound
seems to be one of those, even though there will always be unavoidable
differences.  I think it is nice if the operating system is as invisible
as possible.
  
While on the subject of versions and differences, I have a question. 
Why is it that some flags in some Windows versions are preceded by -+
instead of just - as mentioned for the Windows-specific flags in the
Csound manual.  It may seem a minor difference, but for any program that
uses the csound executable a crucial(or fatal) one.  So, yes, I would
like to see that standardized as well.

Job van Zuijlen (very relaxed)

Nicola Bernardini wrote:
 
> Can you see advantages in having instead one unique version? Could you spell
> them out?
> [snip]


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Although (or maybe because) I'm not a Linux user, I wasn't aware that
there were actually two versions.  I thought it was more a situation
like the PowerMac where someone other than John builds it, but tries to
stay in sync.  I think that makes sense, unless, to put it bluntly, the
"official" version sucks, but even then it would be better to try to
resolve it.  There are not many programs that are portable, but Csound
seems to be one of those, even though there will always be unavoidable
differences.  I think it is nice if the operating system is as invisible
as possible.
  
While on the subject of versions and differences, I have a question. 
Why is it that some flags in some Windows versions are preceded by -+
instead of just - as mentioned for the Windows-specific flags in the
Csound manual.  It may seem a minor difference, but for any program that
uses the csound executable a crucial(or fatal) one.  So, yes, I would
like to see that standardized as well.

Job van Zuijlen (very relaxed)

Nicola Bernardini wrote:
 
> Can you see advantages in having instead one unique version? Could you spell
> them out?
> [snip]


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From: Larry Troxler 
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It's very nice to see that this discussion has not degenerated into a
flame war. Instead, as of tonight, the posts on both sides of the issue
have been very  calm and enlightening.

My concern about having multiple versions, BTW, is mostly the question
of portability. If one of us distributes a composition in "source-code"
form (orc and score) files, can we be confident that someone on an other
platform, running a different variant of Csound, will get the same
result when they perf those files?  


But, in the long run, my view is that questions about the wisdom of
multiple versions, are minor ones in the scope of things. Worth
discussing, yes, but not worth getting into heated debates over.

So I'm gratified that the discussion has been intelligent and rational
(so far).

Larry
 
-  Larry Troxler --  lt@westnet.com  --  Patterson, NY USA  --



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Can someone point me to the "canonical" code?  I'd like to build a Linux
version and put it up for ftp.

-troy



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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:48:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Isaksen 
Reply-To: Aaron Isaksen 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: request for new opcode: rgoto
In-Reply-To: <36425EB6.3DCB855D@westnet.com>
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I have asked Prof. Vercoe to add an opcode to extended csound that would
perform a conditional goto only at the release of a note.  I'm planning on
using this for realtime with midi, where the length of a note is not known
(no p3).

I don't think there is a way to do this using an if statement.  

If the community thinks this is a useful opcode, could someone add it to
the public csound distribution?

Thank you,

-Aaron Isaksen




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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Csound 
Subject: Re: Problem Compiling Winsound
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:57:32 -0600
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Hi,

Michael Gogins suggested:
>Just above where it says "#include  put:
>
>#ifdef AXCSOUND    //    Or whatever...
>#define __RPCASYNC_H__
>#endif


This solved one batch of errors but now there are more.

Since uggab.h could not be found and control.h generated >100 errors I
commented them out:

// #include "uggab.h"
// #ifdef CWIN
// #include "control.h"
// #endif

Here is the next set of errors:

d:\csound\entry.c(791) : error C2065: 'WRAP' : undeclared identifier
d:\csound\entry.c(795) : error C2065: 'INTERPOL' : undeclared identifier
d:\csound\entry.c(798) : error C2065: 'TRIG' : undeclared identifier
d:\csound\entry.c(803) : error C2065: 'CNTRL' : undeclared identifier
d:\csound\entry.c(804) : error C2065: 'SCNTRL' : undeclared identifier

I commented out the mirror, wrap, ntrpol, control, cdisplay & trigger
opcodes from entry.c.  This gets it as far as:

d:\csound\cwin.cpp(3391) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file:
'CSliders.h': No such file or directory

I commented out the slider code in CWIN.CPP Now I get:

d:\csound\cwin.cpp(3807) : error C2666: '!=' : 2 overloads have similar
conversions

 if (xxx.m_midiselector!=NULL && xxx.m_midiselector.GetCount()>0) {
      if (xxx.m_midiselector.GetCurSel()!=0) { // If realtime midi

I don't see what would be ambiguous with this but I'll comment it out
anyway.  Additional space and parens did not seem to help.

This gets me to linking with the following errors:

Linking...
ENTRY.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _lowpr_w_sep
ENTRY.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _lowpr_w_sep_set
ENTRY.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _lowprx
ENTRY.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _lowpr_setx
ENTRY.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _lowpr
ENTRY.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _lowpr_set
CWIN.OBJ : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "protected: void
__thiscall CArg::OnSliders(void)" (?OnSliders@CArg@@IAEXXZ)
.\WinDebug/winsound.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 7 unresolved externals
Error executing link.exe.

I guess I'll stop for now.

Thanks for any help,
Hans Mikelson



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From: Gabriel Maldonado 
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Look at release/xtratim opcodes already implemented in public version (in particular the
example):

	xtratim	 iextradur
kflag	release 	

DESCRIPTION
Extend the duration of realtime generated events and handle their extra life.

INITIALIZATION

iextradur - additional duration of current instrument instance

PERFORMANCE

xtratim exetends current MIDI-activated note duration of iextradur seconds 
after the corresponding note-off message has deactivated current note itself. 
This opcode has no output arguments. 
release outputs current note state. If current note is in the release stage 
(i.e. if its duration has been exetended with xtratim opcode and if it has 
only just deactivated), kflag output argument is set to 1, else (in sustain 
stage of current note) is set to 0. 

These two opcodes are useful for implementing complex release-oriented envelopes. 

Example:
	instr	1	;allows complex ADSR envelope with MIDI events
inum	notnum
icps	cpsmidi
iamp	ampmidi	4000
;
;############## complex envelope section ##############
	xtratim	1	;extra-time, i.e. release dur
krel	init	0
krel	release		;outputs release-stage flag (0 or 1 values)
if 	(krel > .5) kgoto  rel	;if in relase-stage goto relase section
;
;************ attack and sustain section ***********
kmp1	linseg	0,.03,1,.05,1,.07,0,.08,.5,4,1,50,1 
kmp	=	kmp1*iamp
	kgoto	done
;
;************ release section **********************
rel:
kmp2	linseg	1,.3,.2,.7,0	
kmp	= kmp1*kmp2*iamp
done:
;###################################################
;
a1	oscili	kmp, icps, 1
	out	a1
	endin

Aaron Isaksen wrote:
> 
> I have asked Prof. Vercoe to add an opcode to extended csound that would
> perform a conditional goto only at the release of a note.  I'm planning on
> using this for realtime with midi, where the length of a note is not known
> (no p3).
> 
> I don't think there is a way to do this using an if statement.
> 
> If the community thinks this is a useful opcode, could someone add it to
> the public csound distribution?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> -Aaron Isaksen

-- 
Gabriel Maldonado

http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm


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I'm feeling stupid so need to apologize for asking this question- I
should be able to figure this out but I can't seem to do it.  With that
said - I just got Visual Orchestra (thank you Dave Perry). When I try to
compile I get an error message saying stub exec failed: dos4gw.exe  no
such file or directory.  dos4gw.exe IS in my Csound directory.  What's
going on?
sorry for my incompetence
sheldon kessel

--------------6396FF2399EBC856BB5BC198
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I'm feeling stupid so need to apologize for asking this question- I should
be able to figure this out but I can't seem to do it.  With
that said - I just got Visual Orchestra (thank you Dave Perry). When I
try to compile I get an error message saying stub exec failed: dos4gw.exe 
no such file or directory.  dos4gw.exe IS in my Csound directory. 
What's going on?

sorry for my incompetence
sheldon kessel --------------6396FF2399EBC856BB5BC198--   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10498; 6 Nov 98 10:06 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15264; 6 Nov 98 10:06 GMT Received: (qmail 3930 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 10:06:07 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 10:06:07 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA22481); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:55:51 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:55:38 GMT Received: from root@maila.telia.com [194.236.189.4] by hermes via ESMTP (JAA08670); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:55:36 GMT Received: from d1o211.telia.com (root@d1o211.telia.com [195.204.228.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11491; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:55:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from rogernt (t7o211p20.telia.com [195.204.229.140]) by d1o211.telia.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA05371; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:55:23 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001301be096b$b9a63220$0300a8c0@apas.no> From: roger klaveness To: csound , Sheldon Subject: Re: newbie's visorc problem Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:56:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >dos4gw.exe no such file or directory. dos4gw.exe IS in my Csound directory. What's going on? I would try to put dos4gw.exe in the path, for example c:\windows\system. Or if you have win95/98/NT, try a Win32 version of csound instead of DOS, like csound_con.zip or csound_win.zip from ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/newest/, or perhaps G. Maldano's DirectSound   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10557; 6 Nov 98 10:29 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa17869; 6 Nov 98 10:29 GMT Received: (qmail 6350 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 10:29:56 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 10:29:56 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA11943); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:19:52 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:19:37 GMT Received: from root@maila.telia.com [194.236.189.4] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA13340); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:19:36 GMT Received: from d1o211.telia.com (root@d1o211.telia.com [195.204.228.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24528 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:19:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from rogernt (t5o211p49.telia.com [195.204.229.49]) by d1o211.telia.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA08605 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:19:36 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002901be096f$1bdef910$0300a8c0@apas.no> From: roger klaveness To: csound Subject: Re: newbie's visorc problem Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:20:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >perhaps G. Maldano's DirectSound Sorry, the name should be Gabriel Maldonado http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10728; 6 Nov 98 11:49 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa26302; 6 Nov 98 11:49 GMT Received: (qmail 16169 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 11:49:34 -0000 Received: from intern12.lnk.telstra.net (HELO toad.ilogic.com.au) (majordomo@139.130.53.38) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 11:49:34 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by toad.ilogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA31681 for csound-unix-dev-list; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:11:18 +1100 X-Authentication-Warning: toad.ilogic.com.au: majordomo set sender to owner-csound-unix-dev@ilogic.com.au using -f Received: from ax-nicb.axnet.it (nicb@ax-nicb.axnet.it [194.184.60.149]) by toad.ilogic.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA31676 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:11:03 +1100 Received: (from nicb@localhost) by ax-nicb.axnet.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA16949; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:08 +0100 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:07 +0100 (ROM ) From: Nicola Bernardini To: Csound mailing list cc: Csound Linux/Unix Development Group Subject: [CUD] Linux version reply (sorry this is a bit long) In-Reply-To: <36425EB6.3DCB855D@westnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-unix-dev@ilogic.com.au Precedence: bulk Dear all, sorry it took long to reply to all the posting concerning the issue of the linux version. I'd like to thank all that wrote about it for many reasons, but principally for the level of subtle humour instilled in many of the postings, a humour that I really appreciate personally (in particular, I think the trademarking of version numbering and the comparison of csound to the Java vs. Microsoft Java especially funny - god if my mother knew I was being compared to Micro$oft...:-)) But, let's try to be serious now (change of face, trying hard to stop giggles in the audience). I will tell the story of the infamous linux distribuition. Sorry if most of you know the story already. I'm trying to keep things clear outside the realm of jokes and fun (which I appreciate and I deem necessary to relax and enjoy life). Before that, let me state in the clearest way I can with my poor english vocabulary that I really appreciate jpff's work on the canonical distribution, his attempt on harmonizing issues etc. I will underline this every time I can in this and in further mails if they will occur. On with the story: 1) since version 3.33 (I guess), I used to cook my home-grown csound at home on my linux system; I had to do that because the app would not compile straight out of the box and needed some patching here and there in order to compile and function properly under linux 2) funnily enough, out of necessity I had built my own set of Makefiles which were using a variable called "PREFIX" (in contrast to GNU configuring standards "prefix") which I could set to anything in order to distinguish the old classic MIT csound version from the bath version; at the time I used to set PREFIX=pc, so I would build "pccsound". Since then, I dropped the MIT version and dropped the prefix mechanism; it would be extremely easy to pick it up again and use it - I propose to the people that is currently following my distribution to set PREFIX="InfamousLinux" (ok, ok just joking :-)) 3) personally, I am extremely lazy; so of course, the very first thing I thought was that I would submit all my work to the list - and so I did 4) up until very recently, I never got one single reply for these submissions and I never saw anything coming into the main distribution; so what I have done was extremely simple: I would simply re-apply all my patches to any new distribution provided and we were all happy; PLEASE NOTE: I don't imply here anything against jpff - I do really understand that he is very busy and dealing with problems that are indeed more important than having my home-grown version running at home and I don't blame him at all for not responding: the list is very big and keeping up with all things (distribution, submitters, book, documentation) is extremely time consuming and technically very hard; another nice joke was that one patch that I submitted that finally got the attention of jpff was *wrong* (it was the one on Midi file reading, pretty recent) and had to be corrected right away; if jpff's esteem in my intellectual properties did not grow in this case, I can really understand him 5) around version 3.48 I got contacted by a number of other people that were interested in my distribution and I provided them with these; since the trend expanded, I asked AIMI (Italian Association of Computer Music - a 100 or so members association that is active here in third world Italy) if they could host my (later to become ours - in the sense that it is not my anymore) distribution 6) AIMI kindly accepted (and I am very grateful to them) and I duly advertised everywhere that this happened (sorry for double postings); sorry also if some of you missed these posting 7) several others instead did not miss these posting and started using this distribution pressing me (and everybody else using the distribution) on some specific issues: in particular, use on csound some linux-GNU specific tools like configure and CVS 8) I obliged to these requests, so since 3.482 there has been a packaged distribution and an anonymous CVS repository, thanks to my friends at Ax Digital who provided machine space etc.; 9) to provide some coordination mechanism, Damien Miller provided a mailing list which was initially called csound-linux-dev@ilogic.com.au; the name was changed to csound-unix-dev (as it is now) because some of us felt that through linux and the GNU tools we could support other unices - true, this was perhaps not a good choice and is potentially misleading (needless to say, I am grateful to Damien for this and a number of other issues he helped to solve) 10) that mailing list has constantly grown in size and members and the contributions there are very specific to aspects of linux development and distribution (and I must say, the contributions are very high-level and I have learned a lot from them) 11) again, all of this has been always advertised everywhere and by all means known to us; the proof of this is that we are (personally I am, at least) very surprised of how well this system has worked up to now End of the story. (Unfortunately I'm not finished yet...:-) Since everybody here seems to have strong principles and live by it, I will state a number of things so to make believe that I do too (unfortunately I live in the difficult state of perennial doubt, instead). a) two basic operation principles 1) release early, release often 2) if it's not broken, don't fix it These are very much in use in the Linux community, and it's (fairly) easy for us to stick to them. I even sort of like them and they fit quite well with my idiosyncratic lazyness. b) the infamous linux distribution *MUST* be backward-compatible with the canonical one at all times; this means: it must not break orchestras and scores that run otherwise on the canonical distribution. As I understand, this is the main course meat in this discussion, so I'll delve a bit into it: 1) of course, it is difficult to do 2) there are probably millions of orc/scos that break the ilcsound (ill-csound?) distribuition; 3) I ask anybody interested in this matter to submit them to to the linux mailing list and we (not me, all of us) oblige the best we can and know 4) up to now, we have received very few of these, and fixed them immediately (insomma, we have tried our best...) c) given my idiosyncratic lazyness and the complete distrust I have in my programming chops, it is much more easy for me to take sources as they are from anyone who is submitting them; I usually refrain to impose any change (tabbing, pretty-printing, *any* change) because I feel that changed code will then have to be changed over and over again and because of the respect I have for other programming people; my interventions are thus limited in trying to resolve conflicts (and this already takes up 150% of my allotted sleep time); I trust other people programming chops much more than I do trust mine, and I am really happy with that; this means that I usually stick to the original version of the original writer and trust that if/when that source will break, we'll squeeze our poor brains to the max in order to fix it (thus abiding to principle a.2) c) all sources *MUST* be *ALWAYS* available at *any* stage of development. Save server breaks and hardware problems, this has always been the case, and in fact, by several means: 1) ftp 2) anonymous cvs I would like also other means, such as the various cvsweb clients, bonsai/tinkelsomething or other etc. But I personally don't have access to a web server (and am busy enough as it is): if anybody wants to provide this, I urge she/he to contact us immediately and we'll be glad to arrange it. d) since c) pretty much works, the idea of submitting patches to the canonical distribution is, IMHO, not the best possible; the canonical maintainer has all the tools and the intellectual capabilities to decide for her/himself when/how to integrate changes if necessary at this point; I can, of course, submit patches in an agreed diff form at anytime, whether privately or to the list, and will do so if expressly requested to do so (the 'expressely' means that it is imposes a strong load on mailing systems); it is reasonably easy for me to submit: 1) diff patches canonical->ilcsound and back 2) diff patches between versions of ilcsound 3) diff patches between version of canonical (that's the ones I use to do merging and integration) I would like to note that CVS allows to me but also anybody else to build these diffs instantaneously and with the desired degree of specificity: so anybody can run diffs as they please on any or all the code. Also, CVS maintains almost automatically a ChangeLog and posting to the appropriate mailing list so log changes in plain english are also available at any time (they are even duplicate because of a bug/feature of CVS, but I am about to fix that). e) I am personally very happy that jpff is proposing his own version of linux csound, which is probably far better than ilcsound, and urge anybody scared to wade through infamous places to use that one; unfortunately, it is now difficult for me to step back from continuing distributing my version because of the number of people that constantly requires the tools we have set in place; from now on, I'll stamp our version with 'Infamous Linux', hoping that this will be clear enough (I started using the name at the beginning of this mail, and I sort of like it...)(I will do this personally, I don't imply that anybody else has to do it) Ok. I'm done. I hope this clears out some of the issues. Thanks again to all of you. I really enjoy the humour and the serious issues. In particular, I am really glad that Linux is getting all this attention (I'm a bit embarassed too: there are so many other fantastic operating systems...) ciao ciao Nicola ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nicola Bernardini E-mail: nicb@axnet.it Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described with pictures.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10833; 6 Nov 98 12:24 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00496; 6 Nov 98 12:24 GMT Received: (qmail 20862 invoked from network); 6 Nov 1998 12:24:19 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 6 Nov 1998 12:24:19 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA26404); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:39 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:23 GMT Received: from kmt.hku.nl [192.87.219.66] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA05960); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:09:22 GMT Received: from student-kmt.hku.nl (student-kmt.hku.nl [192.87.219.67]) by kmt.hku.nl (980427.SGI.8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07854; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:08:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from pc-6457.hku.nl (pc-6457.hku.nl [192.87.216.62]) by student-kmt.hku.nl (980427.SGI.8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07521; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:08:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811061208.NAA07521@student-kmt.hku.nl> From: Dave Perry To: visorc@student-kmt.hku.nl, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, SOGM@kmt.hku.nl Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:10:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: VisOrc 1.95 released Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Just a note to say that my webpage now contains the latest version of Visual Orchestra (1.95) in both full download and upgrade form. The link is.. Can I please thank everyone for their support and feedback on VisOrc 1.9 over the past month. This always gives me a great incentive to continue developing (and composing) with Csound. hoping you find the new version useful, Dave Perry perry@student-kmt.hku.nl