| Hello Karl,
so far as I can tell, there should be no problem with system resources: the ADI
card uses one interrupt, and no dma channels, and the Terratec (assuming you
have the latest V.2 drivers) takes two irq's at most (probably dma channels, I
can't remember). A bigger problem might be multimedia resources - there is a
long-standing bug in Windows95 which limits the number of wave and/or MIDI
devices to 11 (again, I'm sorry, I can't recall the exact details). If this does
become a problem, you should be able to reduce the number of devices active in
the Terratec.
The card is plug-n-play, so unless your machine is resource-heavy in other
respects, installation should not be a problem. On my machine the card uses irq
9. I have a soundblaster card also in the machine, and both cards run happily
together. On the other hand, there is always the possibility of PCI-related
conflicts with video cards (not least because video drivers are written in a
rather 'aggressive' fashion sometimes!). My machine uses the Matrox 'mystique',
without problems.
It is not currently possible to use the card for recording through the WAVE
driver, as the facility is not implemented yet. However, you can do it through
the ADI Launcher, using the supplied preset 'ios.l95'. You will need to tweak
the settings (input 'spdif', output 'myfile.wav' , 16bits, stereo, WAVE format)
AND edit ios.orc to change the sample rate from ADI's default of 32000.
In fact, the biggest problem you are likely to have with the card is that every
time an ADI-related program finishes (eg the Launcher), the base-level driver
reloads the default orchestra which supports both audio and MIDI playback under
Windows. For the latter a host of sample files must be loaded into main memory,
and unless you either have LOTS of memory, or no other applications running,
this load may fail, in which case the card dies completely! The workaround for
this is to reduce the number of sample files loaded (see the documentation for
the -P flag) - in effect, disabling the MIDI support. My machine has 32MBytes,
and I do hit this problem.
All this is because the card has not been developed primarily as a Windows
soundcard. Hopefully the next software release will improve things in this
area!.
Hope this helps!
Richard Dobson
Karl Petermichl wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am glad this list is up and running, thanks to all who make this possible.
>
> I received my card 2 weeks ago but have not installed it because I wanted
> to find out about possible problems with othe sound cards. As I couldnt
> find the specific needs for I/O areas, DMA channles or Interrupts in the
> enclosed infos, I want to ask this on this list.
>
> I do have a Terratec EWS64XL at the moment, which is VERY resource hungry,
> so maybe I should dump it BEFORE I install the xtc board?
>
> BTW, is it possible to use the digital ins from the xtc board for straight
> HD reording from Win applications like Soundforge etc? the info says it
> does install windows drivers but I wanted to check this BEFORE I install
> it...
>
> I hope I can in the future ask not such (...stupid...) basic questions, but
> post interesting sound design tips.....:)))))))
>
> Thanks for any answers,
>
> karl.
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From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <3585ED54.28761032@rcsreg.com> (message from Toby on Mon, 15 Jun
1998 20:58:12 -0700)
Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
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If you are using a recent version of Csound then you can use -L and a
filename starting with a | to start a process which delivers events.
I realise that is backward to what you asked for, but it might involve
less hassle and latency.
Altrenatively fire up the sub-process for Csound and attach stdin of
the subprocess to some pipe (if you cannot use dup2, socket etc then
look at popen) and you are off.
==John
Unless I have failed to understand -- not unusual
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From: Jon Christopher Nelson
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 98 10:10:57 -0600
To: csound
Subject: Re: diffusion
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I think that there are some papers regarding both technical and
aesthetic premises of diffusion on the University of Birmingham web
site. The URL eludes me at the moment. Try a web search for BEAST
and you should find it.
Jon Nelson
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From: p robinson
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Subject: WAV troubles
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I've been trying to compile quite a long,timewise, csound score using
Gabriel Maldonado's Csound95, activated from within WCshell, but on
completion it returns the following message,
soundfile write returned bytecount of -1, not 4096
closing the file...
inconsistent WAV size
the file created seems to be of the correct size but is not accepted by
any WAV player. Does anyone know how to overcome this problem or is it a
bug in this version of Csound?
AAA
P@
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From: "Vercoe, Scotty"
To: XTCsound
Subject: hardware conflicts?...impossible!!
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:35:18 -0400
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But, seriously, I have had some notices (which I have now verified)
about conflicts with Adaptec SCSI cards. I think both PCI and ISA SCSI
cards may be a problem. Someone said they use an ultra-wide SCSI card
without conflicts, but I'm not sure which make it was.
Because samples are stored on the host memory, we usually use 64Meg RAM.
There are some issues in the allocation which we are tracking down.
Best regards,
Scotty Vercoe
Extended Csound Applications Consultant
Analog Devices Software & Systems Technology Division
Tel: (781) 461-3569 FAX: (781) 461-4291
Support: Csound.support@analog.com
Website: http://www.analog.com/
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From: rasmus ekman
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To: Csound List
Subject: Re: diffusion
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See:
Proceeds of the International Academy of Electro-Acoustic Music, Bourges,
Volume III (1998). Editions MNEMOSYNE. 380+ pages (both in French and
English, so about 175 are in English). Price 120 Francs.=20
Here's the email: agmeb10@calvacom.fr
I could also type the street address/fax number etc if someone=20
wants it.
The volume contains 20 short articles by a whole gang of EAM composers,=20
including F Barri=E8re, C Clozi=E8r, Max Matthews, J-C Risset, Curtis Roa=
ds,=20
Barry Truax. At least half of the articles seem to concern diffusion in=20
the sense Pete asked about, some are about distribution of music, some=20
about other topics (eg reception of MIDI in the electro-acoustic music wo=
rld).
Vol I in the series is about general composition aesthetics, and=20
Vol II is about electronic music analysis (a CD with examples included).=20
Prices 80/140 Francs.
All articles are written in plain style, and most of those I've looked=20
at contain good tips on thinking about electronic music, practical studio=
=20
work etc.
Regards,
re
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From: Paul Winkler
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
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Thanks John F., Toby, Jens, and Nicola, for your help.
I should perhaps have been more specific in my post. What I'm eventually
trying to create is a little C app with a GUI (possibly written in
Tcl/Tk) which will basically use csound as a sound-generating engine,
and will pipe line events to it in realtime in response to various user
actions. Obviously there's lots of directions you could go with an
interface like that (see CECILIA) but for starters, being extremely
pedestrian, I'm thinking "drum machine". :)
I've been exploring the various suggestions you guys sent. I made a
simple orc that uses a single oscil, with p4 being pitch in cps and p5
being amplitude in dB. That works, no problem. Now here's several short
bits of c code and some comments on each one:
Attempt 1, "piper1.c", based on Toby's suggestion:
#include
#include /* need these for mkfifo() */
#include
FILE *ofp;
int main(void)
{
mkfifo("/tmp/Barf", 0666);
system("ls -l /tmp/Barf"); /* just to be take a look. */
if ((ofp = fopen("/tmp/Barf" , "w" )) == NULL) {
printf("Can't open /tmp/Barf. Bye.\n");
exit(1);
}
printf("Opened /tmp/Barf for writing.\n");
exit(0);
/* Neither of the above exits takes place!!! */
system("Csound -L /tmp/Barf -b 8192 -odevaudio
/home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco");
/* Here's where I would put code to write some score events */
/* Now get rid of the FIFO. */
system("rm /tmp/Barf");
return 0;
}
Obviously, something's not right. The system() call wasn't happening so
I put the two exit() calls in there to see what was happening when I
tried to open the fifo. When I run piper1, it gets as far as the ls -l
and then nothing else happens. No reported errors, it doesn't exit, just
sits there doing nothing until I kill it.
Moving along, here's piper2.c:
/***** Attempt to write line events to a pipe and get csound to read
them. This method works, but it seems the events arrive all at the same
time, and not until pclose() is called... so how can I get instantaneous
results from each fprintf() ? ***/
#include
FILE *fp;
int main(void)
{
fp = popen("csound -d -L stdin -b 8192 -odevaudio \
home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc \
/home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco", "w");
sleep(2); /* give csound a moment to get started... */
fprintf(fp, "i1 0 2 300 75\n");
sleep(1); /* attempt to send another event 1 second later */
fprintf(fp, "i1 0 2 400 75\n");
sleep(10); /* testing... */
pclose(fp);
return 0;
}
The sleep(10) line is there because I suspected csound wasn't receiving
the line events until the pclose call, and I was right. I want each
fprintf() to deliver its score event instantly...
So now I try jpff's first suggestion:
>... use -L and a filename starting with a | to start a process
> which delivers events ...
OK, I write this little code in piper3.c:
#include
int main(void)
{
/* Invoke this prog with "csound -d -L "|piper3" -b 8192 -odevaudio
/home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco */
printf("i1 0 2 300 75\n");
sleep(1);
printf("i1 0 2 400 75\n");
return 0;
}
Then at the shell prompt I do this:
csound -d -L "|piper3" -b 8192 -odevaudio
/home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco
This doesn't work right. Csound complains that it's unable to open the
line device for reading. piper3 does run, though, and prints the two
events on stdout like I expected.
Finally, John's last suggestion:
>Altrenatively fire up the sub-process for Csound and attach
>stdin of the subprocess to some pipe (if you cannot use
>dup2, socket etc then look at popen) and you are off.
Well, we've already gone over popen. I had a look at the man pages for
dup2 and socket and got nowhere. dup2 just says it duplicates a file
descriptor-- how does that help? And socket was just beyond me... I was
totally guessing on the arguments, had no idea what protocol was
appropriate, and even if I did, I have no idea what to do next.
Any more ideas, folks?
Thanks again,
PW
______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 03:02:47 +0100
From: Lex Vanderwal
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To: Mike Berry
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Subject: Re: Newbie question: window
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Mike Berry wrote:
(Good description of PVOC, anyway)
> The Phase Vocoding process assumes that the data in the FFT analysis can be
> stretched or compressed temporally. This assumption is more or less valid
> depending on the original material and how it was analyzed. As a general
> rule, continuously pitched material is going to sound better if a large window
> is used, because the frequencies are going to be more accurate. Music with
> many "events" will sound better with a small window. Unfortunately, most
> music has both elements, so you need to reach a compromise that suits your
> purposes. That's why the window size in not defined for you.
>
>
I am not too sure about this last remark: When doing PVOC analysis with,
say 4096 points frame size, everything goes well but, doing resynthesis
Csound (<=3.47 on NT, at least) compains about the window size being >
1024. Again analysis/resynthesis with framsize <= 1024 goes well, but
sometimes I would prefer a larger window.
Greetings, Lex Vanderwal.
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: xtcsound@lists.bath.AC.UK
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Subject: Re: hardware conflicts possible?
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 20:37:26 -0500
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Hi,
After I first installed the Csound board I had to remove my Soundblaster
board to keep my computer from crashing. When I put the Soundblaster back
in they both started working. I still have to disable the Csound driver in
order to use certain other multimedia applications.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
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Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:30:03 -0600
From: Mike Berry
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There may be a PVOC frame size limit in there. I know that there was in the
Mac version, though I think we're getting it out. There is no specific reason
that I know of that csound should not allow larger power-of-2 windows
(certainly nothing inherent in phase vocoding).
--
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb
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Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
To: zarmzarm@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 7:47:35 METDST
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <19980617005526.9049.qmail@hotmail.com>; from "Paul Winkler" at Jun 16, 98 5:55 pm
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From: Jens Kilian
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> Moving along, here's piper2.c:
>
> /***** Attempt to write line events to a pipe and get csound to read
> them. This method works, but it seems the events arrive all at the same
> time, and not until pclose() is called... so how can I get instantaneous
> results from each fprintf() ? ***/
Try fflush(fp) after each fprintf(fp, ...).
Jens.
--
mailto:jjk@acm.org phone:+49-7031-14-7698 (HP TELNET 778-7698)
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0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake]
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:21:54 +0100
From: Richard Dobson
Organization: Composers Desktop project
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Subject: Re: hardware conflicts?...impossible!!
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For what its worth, my system uses an Adaptec SCSI PCI card, without problems
(using original release version of Windows 95). However, interestingly, because
of the need to juggle cards around, I did install the Csound card by itself, and
only when I found it was unreliable as a full MMedia card, did I reinstall my
SoundBlaster as well. Given the flaming hoops Plug-n-Play must leap through to
arbitrate betweeen all these systems, some order-sensitive behaviour doesn't
seem unexpected!
Re memory:
I have no confidence that even 64MB of ram would guarantee solid reloading of
sample data. I use the memory monitor from the Richter book, from time to time,
and Windows readily fills up all memory, given any oportunity. If I have VC++
running (VERY memory hungry), and a large soundfile cached in memory also (I am
quite impressed how much Windows does this, with quite large soundfiles), I
would expect the 64MB to be fully taken up. In my view, there are only two
reliable options - lock the sample memory when allocated by the driver, or admit
defeat and add the necessary DRAM to the card. I think manufacturers may well
look more interestedly at the card when redesigned this way.
Richard Dobson
Vercoe, Scotty wrote:
>
> But, seriously, I have had some notices (which I have now verified)
> about conflicts with Adaptec SCSI cards. I think both PCI and ISA SCSI
> cards may be a problem. Someone said they use an ultra-wide SCSI card
> without conflicts, but I'm not sure which make it was.
>
> Because samples are stored on the host memory, we usually use 64Meg RAM.
> There are some issues in the allocation which we are tracking down.
>
> Best regards,
> Scotty Vercoe
> Extended Csound Applications Consultant
> Analog Devices Software & Systems Technology Division
> Tel: (781) 461-3569 FAX: (781) 461-4291
> Support: Csound.support@analog.com
> Website: http://www.analog.com/
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Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:12:06 +0200
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:12:05 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: "Vercoe, Scotty"
Cc: CSOUND , Dave Phillips ,
Robin Whittle ,
Linux Audio Development Mailing list
Subject: Re: summer plans
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On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Vercoe, Scotty wrote:
[snip]
> As usual, we got some flack for only supporting Windows 95 (I don't like
> it any more than most of you). We would encourage anyone interested in
> supporting Extended Csound on other platforms. Although right now, we
> can't pay anyone to do any work, I can promise you a free card and as
> much support as we can give. Should a company come to us that is
> interested in selling cards for another platform, they would probably be
> interested in licensing the work that has been done so far instead of
> starting from scratch. Please contact me if anyone has any interest in
> this.
Well, these are good news. I speak for myself but I think I can correctly
assert that at list me, Dave Phillips and Robin Whittle and the entire
Linux Audio Development list would be happy
to see Extended Csound cards running on linux boxes, and I am ready to
jump in writing drivers and what not to make this happen. Do you think
that access to the information needed could be made available to the
linux community which is, as you certainly know, driven by public domain
interests rather than commercial ventures?
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:05:01 +0200
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:04:58 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: Paul Winkler
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: how to pipe -L events in linux/unix
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Dear Paul,
my sensation is that whatever you wrote in C should be working right
away as a Unix shell first (that's the way I did my tests before).
The code you wrote practically duplicates what the shell does when you
do something like, say:
echo "i1 0 10 32000 440" | csound -L stdin -do devaudio thisandthat.orc
(is there a need for a sco? It did not for me - it said it was replacing
with a dummy sco)
In a normal situation, this *SHOULD* work. The point is that there is
no real name for stdin so we don't know what to put there. Another thing
I tried was:
csound -L /tmp/fifo -do devaudio thisandthat.orc && \
echo "i1 0 10 32000 440" >> /tmp/fifo
which means "start csound sucking from a fifo and if successeful write
in that fifo". I tried every way around, first echo and then csound or first
csound and then echo. Does'nt work either because csound evidently opens the fifo
queue, does not block waiting for input and thinks there's something wrong
and exits. Even sending csound and or echo in the background does not help
if csound fread() does'nt block because there's no way to synchronize the
two events (that's precisely what blocking is for). I did not have time
to test the "|/tmp/fifo" syntax - somebody should do it and report though.
Tomorrow I have some travelling time and I'll work on this problem (which
interests me too) and I'll find a solution (if nobody else finds one in
the meantime, of course), at least for linux (and I believe most other
unix systems - sorry about the others, I can't test/debug them; I'll
try to make things clean and portable though).
In the meantime, my suggestion is again: on unix/linux systems, there's
no point in programming these kind of things in C *first*;
prototypes can be made and *have* to work with shells otherwise
something seriously wrong is at work (see above). And forget sockets, that's
another story - pipes are fine and they work really well for the kind
of things you want to do.
Ciao for now
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Paul Winkler wrote:
[snip]
> Thanks John F., Toby, Jens, and Nicola, for your help.
>
> I should perhaps have been more specific in my post. What I'm eventually
> trying to create is a little C app with a GUI (possibly written in
> Tcl/Tk) which will basically use csound as a sound-generating engine,
> and will pipe line events to it in realtime in response to various user
> actions. Obviously there's lots of directions you could go with an
> interface like that (see CECILIA) but for starters, being extremely
> pedestrian, I'm thinking "drum machine". :)
>
> I've been exploring the various suggestions you guys sent. I made a
> simple orc that uses a single oscil, with p4 being pitch in cps and p5
> being amplitude in dB. That works, no problem. Now here's several short
> bits of c code and some comments on each one:
>
> Attempt 1, "piper1.c", based on Toby's suggestion:
>
> #include
> #include /* need these for mkfifo() */
> #include
>
> FILE *ofp;
>
> int main(void)
> {
> mkfifo("/tmp/Barf", 0666);
> system("ls -l /tmp/Barf"); /* just to be take a look. */
> if ((ofp = fopen("/tmp/Barf" , "w" )) == NULL) {
> printf("Can't open /tmp/Barf. Bye.\n");
> exit(1);
> }
> printf("Opened /tmp/Barf for writing.\n");
> exit(0);
> /* Neither of the above exits takes place!!! */
> system("Csound -L /tmp/Barf -b 8192 -odevaudio
> /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco");
> /* Here's where I would put code to write some score events */
> /* Now get rid of the FIFO. */
> system("rm /tmp/Barf");
> return 0;
> }
>
> Obviously, something's not right. The system() call wasn't happening so
> I put the two exit() calls in there to see what was happening when I
> tried to open the fifo. When I run piper1, it gets as far as the ls -l
> and then nothing else happens. No reported errors, it doesn't exit, just
> sits there doing nothing until I kill it.
>
> Moving along, here's piper2.c:
>
> /***** Attempt to write line events to a pipe and get csound to read
> them. This method works, but it seems the events arrive all at the same
> time, and not until pclose() is called... so how can I get instantaneous
> results from each fprintf() ? ***/
>
> #include
>
> FILE *fp;
>
> int main(void)
> {
>
> fp = popen("csound -d -L stdin -b 8192 -odevaudio \
> home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc \
> /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco", "w");
> sleep(2); /* give csound a moment to get started... */
> fprintf(fp, "i1 0 2 300 75\n");
> sleep(1); /* attempt to send another event 1 second later */
> fprintf(fp, "i1 0 2 400 75\n");
> sleep(10); /* testing... */
> pclose(fp);
> return 0;
> }
>
> The sleep(10) line is there because I suspected csound wasn't receiving
> the line events until the pclose call, and I was right. I want each
> fprintf() to deliver its score event instantly...
>
> So now I try jpff's first suggestion:
> >... use -L and a filename starting with a | to start a process
> > which delivers events ...
>
> OK, I write this little code in piper3.c:
>
> #include
>
> int main(void)
> {
> /* Invoke this prog with "csound -d -L "|piper3" -b 8192 -odevaudio
> /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco */
> printf("i1 0 2 300 75\n");
> sleep(1);
> printf("i1 0 2 400 75\n");
> return 0;
> }
>
> Then at the shell prompt I do this:
> csound -d -L "|piper3" -b 8192 -odevaudio
> /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.orc /home/pw/Orcs+Scores/osciltest.sco
>
> This doesn't work right. Csound complains that it's unable to open the
> line device for reading. piper3 does run, though, and prints the two
> events on stdout like I expected.
>
> Finally, John's last suggestion:
>
> >Altrenatively fire up the sub-process for Csound and attach
> >stdin of the subprocess to some pipe (if you cannot use
> >dup2, socket etc then look at popen) and you are off.
>
> Well, we've already gone over popen. I had a look at the man pages for
> dup2 and socket and got nowhere. dup2 just says it duplicates a file
> descriptor-- how does that help? And socket was just beyond me... I was
> totally guessing on the arguments, had no idea what protocol was
> appropriate, and even if I did, I have no idea what to do next.
>
> Any more ideas, folks?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> PW
>
> ______________________________________________________
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