Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52

Date	1999-07-26 13:39
From	jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject	Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52
	Message written at 26 Jul 1999 10:12:13 +0100 --- Copy of mail to kurtnelson2@juno.com --- Kurt> The soundin opcode will not open .wav files can you elaborate? Doe sit give an error, or teh wrong sounds or what? i was using soundin with a WAv file last night on the Linux system with no problems. A little more information please. ==John ffitch Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28623; 26 Jul 99 13:47 BST Received: from [194.81.80.17] (helo=newton1.bathspa.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118jCh-0003ql-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:45:59 +0100 Received: from bathspa.ac.uk ([172.19.101.114]) by newton1.bathspa.ac.uk (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 610; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:47:42 +0100 Message-ID: <379CC9E0.494A8F45@bathspa.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:49:37 -0700 From: Derek Pierce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi I seem to remember a long while ago csound would not open .wav files if they had been save in Cool edit. As i no longer use that I do not know if it has been fixed. derek jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Message written at 26 Jul 1999 10:12:13 +0100 > --- Copy of mail to kurtnelson2@juno.com --- > > Kurt> The soundin opcode will not open .wav files > > can you elaborate? Doe sit give an error, or teh wrong sounds or > what? i was using soundin with a WAv file last night on the Linux > system with no problems. A little more information please. > > ==John ffitch Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28643; 26 Jul 99 13:49 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118kCF-0002pK-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:49:35 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (NAA00930); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:47:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:46:56 +0100 Received: from newton1.bathspa.ac.uk [194.81.80.17] by hermes via ESMTP (NAA10067); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:46:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from bathspa.ac.uk ([172.19.101.114]) by newton1.bathspa.ac.uk (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 610; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:47:42 +0100 Message-ID: <379CC9E0.494A8F45@bathspa.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:49:37 -0700 From: Derek Pierce X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk hi I seem to remember a long while ago csound would not open .wav files if they had been save in Cool edit. As i no longer use that I do not know if it has been fixed. derek jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > Message written at 26 Jul 1999 10:12:13 +0100 > --- Copy of mail to kurtnelson2@juno.com --- > > Kurt> The soundin opcode will not open .wav files > > can you elaborate? Doe sit give an error, or teh wrong sounds or > what? i was using soundin with a WAv file last night on the Linux > system with no problems. A little more information please. > > ==John ffitch Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28717; 26 Jul 99 14:32 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118jv7-0003sz-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:31:53 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA07901); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:30:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:29:56 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA03866); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:29:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from [138.38.97.36] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118js9-0003sp-00; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:28:49 +0100 From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk To: matti@devo.com CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk In-reply-to: <379A7A6F.25E070BC@devo.com> (message from Matti Khler-Busch on Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:46:08 -0500) Subject: Re: Digeridoo References: <379A7A6F.25E070BC@devo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 99 14:29:45 BST Source-Info: From (or Sender) name not authenticated. Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >From my archives.... ; This patch generates the sound of a didjerido ; by means of wave shaping.... ; Michel Peters ; Utrecht School of the Arts ; dep. Musictechnology ; course year MT-t-1 94/95 sr=44100 kr=441 ksmps=100 nchnls=2 instr 1 ;=======ENVELOPES==================================================== kenv1 linseg 0, .1p3, 1, .8p3, 1, p3.1, 0 ;/--\(FADE IN/OUT) ;=======LFO'S======================================================== klfo1 randi .02, 20, .123 klfo2 randi .02, 10, .23 klfo3 randi 500, 5, .67 ;=======SIGNAL-PROCESSING============================================ anoise rand .05 ;NOISE asin1 oscili .3+klfo2, p5+klfo1, 1 ;FREQ+LFO'S awave1 tablei asin1, 2, 1, .5 ;WAVESHAPING/SQA.+RES. afilter reson awave1+anoise,1000, 1000+klfo3 abal balance afilter,awave1 ;=======OUTPUT======================================================= outs abalkenv1p4,abalkenv1p4 endin ;========================================================SCORE======= ; a test-score for the wave shaped didge f1 0 1024 10 1 f2 0 1024 7 0 32 1 32 .7 64 .9 54 .6 64 1 54 .7 64 1 44 .8 84 .6 40 -.6 84 -.8 44 -1 64 -.7 54 -1 64 -.6 54 -.9 64 -.7 32 -1 32 0 ;instr start dur amp freq i1 0 5 29000 65 e Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28774; 26 Jul 99 14:52 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118lBY-0002qv-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:52:56 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA06561); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:50:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:50:32 +0100 Received: from ccrma.Stanford.EDU [36.49.0.84] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA03199); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:50:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from ccrma.stanford.edu ([207.97.74.49]) by ccrma.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01671; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379C6795.34ACD410@ccrma.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:50:13 -0400 From: Tobias Kunze X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Gogins CC: Richard Dobson , csound csound Subject: Re: sequencer References: <001001bed723$78ebd060$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > The simplest thing would be to use MIDI semantics but with float values. > Thus key 60.5 would be 1/4 tone sharper than C. Please don't. For the most part, pitch included, MIDI doesn't have semantics. It would be wrong, therefore, to equate "60" with "middle-C" or a unit increase in keynumbers with one tempered half-step. Also, as others have pointed out, there is no notion of duration in MIDI, hence no such pfield to set. If you want a sequencer for csound, look at cm. It doesn't care about pfields, as long as you (the programmer) defines their semantics. I dont' see how a different approach is possible for csound. Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28897; 26 Jul 99 15:25 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118kkM-0003w0-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:24:50 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA09786); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:23:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:23:08 +0100 Received: from claire.a2000.nl [62.108.1.21] by hermes via ESMTP (PAA08219); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:23:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from hardy-1-p ([192.168.17.113] helo=hardy-1.a2000.nl) by claire.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 118lem-0004vq-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:23:08 +0200 Received: from hardy-1.a2000.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by hardy-1.a2000.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA55E4 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:22:09 +0200 Received: from smtp2.a2000.nl ([192.168.18.20]) by hardy-1.a2000.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6FA6 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:45:33 +0200 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk ([144.173.6.14] helo=exeter.ac.uk) by smtp2.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 112SVL-0001rB-00 for D.W.Perry@fibre.a2000.nl; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 06:43:19 +0200 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA08499); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:36:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:35:43 +0100 Received: from nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.22] by hermes via SMTP (FAA17648); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:35:41 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 9007 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jul 1999 04:35:50 -0000 Received: from 204.68.23.22 by nwcst277 via web-mailer() on Fri Jul 9 04:35:50 GMT 1999 Message-ID: <19990709043550.9006.qmail@nwcst277.netaddress.usa.net> Date: 8 Jul 99 22:35:50 MDT From: craig routt To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: no caps this time. X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer () Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Josep M Comajuncosas wrote: Of course you can always recode your plucked instrument with more primitive opcodes, thus you=B4re not limited by anyone=B4s preconceptions= of how a waveguide plucked string should be implemented. I have some of them at my homepage at tripod. Hope that=B4ll help, Josep M craig-routt@usa.net wrote: > i know i'm being redundant but i've got this vision > > about pluck that it needs to be frequency modulated > > in the time domain. -- Josep M Comajuncosas C/ Circumval.lacio 75 08790 Gelida - Penedes Catalunya - SPAIN tel. 93 7792243 e-mail: gelida@intercom.es ET Informatica de Sistemes e-mail: jcomajuncosas@campus.uoc.es http://members.tripod.com/csound/ hi = how are you today? i was thinking in terms of re writing the source code where you would have an interpolator that i could sort of = borrow from the ftable . then just sweep the read back and forth across the buffer defined to = contain the interpolator is what i had visualized as a new opcode. something not too difficult for a guy who is working on his first wear of electronics math and electronics , with a bit of basic and some = c thrown in. thank you for your orc. but i'm shure i'm on to something new. maybe? wish me luck ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29046; 26 Jul 99 16:27 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118mfH-0002tu-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:27:43 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA17062); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:21:30 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:21:18 +0100 Received: from usamail.texasonline.net [208.207.16.31] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA15114); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:21:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from nmol.com (unverified [208.221.109.47]) by usamail.texasonline.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:24:52 -0500 Message-ID: <379C7C00.93C46EB@nmol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:17:20 -0600 From: Mike Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound csound Subject: Re: sequencer References: <001001bed723$78ebd060$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> <379C6795.34ACD410@ccrma.stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The solution that I am working on implementing in my own software uses MIDI as a base identifier with further long and floating point tags in the message. So a note on might look like: long NumberOfMidiBytes = 3 unsigned char = 0x90 (Note On) unsigned char = 0x20 (Note number) unsigned char = 0x80 (Velocity) unsigned char pad long Number OfLongParameters = 2 long LongParam1 long LongParam2 long Number OfFloatParameters = 3 float FloatParam1 float FloatParam2 float FloatParam3 So, for instance, LongParam1 might be the duration of the note. FloatParam1 might be the pitch of the note in Hz. And these could be defined by the receiver however they wished, and with as many p fields as necessary. I pass these messages using UDP. When the UDP is received, the receiver determines if only MIDI is supported or if the extended format is supported, and parses out the message accordingly. Obviously the gap is in hardware - I don't have a slider box which supports anything besides MIDI. But when the communication is between two pieces of software, this is easy to use. I preserve the MIDI data also because it is a useful format for defining triggering information, particularly if your app already has a MIDI triggering system built in (as GrainWave does). So these messages can enter into that triggering system but still carry further data. -- Mike Berry mikeb@nmol.com http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29057; 26 Jul 99 16:32 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118lmg-0003zW-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:31:18 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA01433); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:29:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:29:36 +0100 Received: from claire.a2000.nl [62.108.1.21] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA03640); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:29:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from hardy-1-p ([192.168.17.113] helo=hardy-1.a2000.nl) by claire.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 118mh6-0005kx-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:29:36 +0200 Received: from hardy-1.a2000.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by hardy-1.a2000.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA4E78 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:28:38 +0200 Received: from smtp1.a2000.nl ([192.168.17.19]) by hardy-1.a2000.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id ABQ29F for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:51:13 +0200 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk ([144.173.6.14] helo=exeter.ac.uk) by smtp1.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 112WJV-0001By-00 for D.W.Perry@fibre.a2000.nl; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:47:21 +0200 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA16789); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:44:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:43:41 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.212] by hermes via ESMTP (JAA11300); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:43:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from modem-29.iodine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.26.29] helo=internetpc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 112WFv-0000xc-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:43:39 +0100 Message-ID: <003301bec9e7$5f4c0b00$1d1a883e@internetpc> From: richard bowers To: csound csound Subject: Audio file lengths Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 09:45:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Can anyone offer me a solution to obtaining the duration (if possible) or file size of an audio file stored on disk from within a instrument? I feel it would be useful to know the duration of a file to make better use of - and prevent errors when using - the skiptime on the soundin/diskin ugs. Thanks, Richard Bowers. Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29254; 26 Jul 99 17:30 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118ne2-0002w8-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:30:30 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA04951); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:25:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:25:12 +0100 Received: from web1203.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.139] by hermes via SMTP (RAA03861); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:25:11 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <19990726162337.1307.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.227.100.168] by web1203.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:23:37 EDT Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:23:37 -0400 (EDT) From: David Boothe Subject: Re: manuals To: craig routt , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Craig- I'm not sure I completely understand what you are suggesting. If your suggestion is for a constantly updated section, in the Csound manual, on sound cards, and their pros and cons, then I don't think this would be appropriate, simply because The Public Csound Manual is the reference manual for Public Csound. There is always the mailing list archive(s) to search. Currently, there appear to be two available. MIT's: http://media.dr.rhbnc.ac.uk/csound/list/ and John ffitch's: ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/Csound_List_Archive/ Seems to me, Hans Mikelson's excellent Csound E-zine would be a good forum for periodic surveys of sound cards, assuming someone is willing to write them. This topic does seem to be of perennial interest to Csounders. Thanks for the suggestion, Craig. I'm always willing to entertain ways to make the manual more useful. -David. --- craig routt wrote: > do sound blaster tricks or make sound cards in general work, > > why not post the answers into the manual in a single glob with > > a single tag to goto sound cards. > > > by > > craig _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29395; 26 Jul 99 17:59 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118n8w-00043P-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:58:22 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA04731); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:55:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:55:34 +0100 Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA02867); Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:55:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from default (1Cust142.tnt2.fort-wayne.in.da.uu.net [208.252.79.142]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26581 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601bed787$817f1a20$8e4ffcd0@default> From: Michael Rhoades To: Csound List References: Subject: Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:54:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Kurt, What version of Csound are you using. I had trouble with Winsound 3.55 and earlier, it would work but you had to play around to get it to, but 3.56 is working great now, it lets you assign your file structure. I am using it with .wavs , no trouble. Great job John ffitch!! Thanks a lot.... Michael Rhoades http://www.innerlightpub.com/rhoadsmith ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 8:39 AM Subject: Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52 > Message written at 26 Jul 1999 10:12:13 +0100 > --- Copy of mail to kurtnelson2@juno.com --- > > Kurt> The soundin opcode will not open .wav files > > can you elaborate? Doe sit give an error, or teh wrong sounds or > what? i was using soundin with a WAv file last night on the Linux > system with no problems. A little more information please. > > ==John ffitch Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00138; 27 Jul 99 1:32 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118uDA-0004Eh-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:31:12 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA10493); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:27:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:27:14 +0100 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA07752); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:27:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from Realizer (user-2ive3ds.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.13.188]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA24972; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001401bed7c7$14560cc0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> From: Michael Gogins To: Tobias Kunze Cc: Richard Dobson , csound csound Subject: Re: sequencer Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:28:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk In the first place, it is simply rhetoric to say that MIDI doesn't have semantics. You may not like its semantics, but they are there. My motivation for this suggestion is to make it easier to inter-operate with existing protocols such as MIDI. I would not be the first developer to extend or change MIDI; its commercial developers have been doing this since the beginning. Just recently, for example, Cubase supplemented MIDI by including a cent field in the MIDI channel message structure in their new VST 2 plugin protocol. Adding a duration field would be a similar move. Another example of an extended MIDI protocol is Perry Cook's SKINI. Again, the purpose of these adaptations is to make it easy to, for example, open a MIDI port and then fill in fields of one's adapted protocol, or to take a score written in one's extended protocol and pump it out a MIDI port or save it as a MIDI file. It is not to develop a new representation of music from the ground up. There is an enormous body of music, and an emormous body of working hardware and software, that uses MIDI in musically significant ways. Adding floating point precision and duration to MIDI would provide a very large increment in functionality, and be easily adapted to existing systems, at a very slight cost in programming. -----Original Message----- From: Tobias Kunze To: Michael Gogins Cc: Richard Dobson ; csound csound Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: Re: sequencer > >> The simplest thing would be to use MIDI semantics but with float values. >> Thus key 60.5 would be 1/4 tone sharper than C. > >Please don't. >For the most part, pitch included, MIDI doesn't have semantics. >It would be wrong, therefore, to equate "60" with "middle-C" or >a unit increase in keynumbers with one tempered half-step. > >Also, as others have pointed out, there is no notion of duration >in MIDI, hence no such pfield to set. > >If you want a sequencer for csound, look at cm. It doesn't care >about pfields, as long as you (the programmer) defines their >semantics. I dont' see how a different approach is possible for >csound. Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00144; 27 Jul 99 1:33 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118vBH-00035D-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:33:19 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA03232); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:28:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:28:37 +0100 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA11762); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:28:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from Realizer (user-2ive3ds.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.13.188]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA30747; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:28:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01bed7c7$47c4dbe0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> From: Michael Gogins To: Mike Berry , csound csound Subject: Re: sequencer Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:30:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This is interesting, but I don't understand the motivation for using additional fields for note number and velocity, instead of simply increasing the precision of the existing MIDI fields as in SKINI. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Berry To: csound csound Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 11:21 AM Subject: Re: sequencer > The solution that I am working on implementing in my own software uses >MIDI as a base identifier with further long and floating point tags in >the message. So a note on might look like: > >long NumberOfMidiBytes = 3 > unsigned char = 0x90 (Note On) > unsigned char = 0x20 (Note number) > unsigned char = 0x80 (Velocity) > unsigned char pad >long Number OfLongParameters = 2 > long LongParam1 > long LongParam2 >long Number OfFloatParameters = 3 > float FloatParam1 > float FloatParam2 > float FloatParam3 > > So, for instance, LongParam1 might be the duration of the note. >FloatParam1 might be the pitch of the note in Hz. And these could be >defined by the receiver however they wished, and with as many p fields >as necessary. I pass these messages using UDP. When the UDP is >received, the receiver determines if only MIDI is supported or if the >extended format is supported, and parses out the message accordingly. > Obviously the gap is in hardware - I don't have a slider box which >supports anything besides MIDI. But when the communication is between >two pieces of software, this is easy to use. > I preserve the MIDI data also because it is a useful format for >defining triggering information, particularly if your app already has a >MIDI triggering system built in (as GrainWave does). So these messages >can enter into that triggering system but still carry further data. >-- >Mike Berry >mikeb@nmol.com >http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00231; 27 Jul 99 2:25 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118v2T-0004FI-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:24:13 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA06760); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:20:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:20:29 +0100 Received: from howl.werewolf.net [12.23.152.10] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA07880); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:20:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from default (dial98.werewolf.net [12.23.153.98]) by howl.werewolf.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA01804 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:07:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002201bed7cf$5a926be0$6299170c@default> From: Hans Mikelson To: Csound Subject: Re: problem with soundin on winsound 3.52 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:28:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, I use soundin with CoolEdit version 96 .wav files without problem. I usually rename them to soundin.10 or some other number though. Bye, Hans Mikelson Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00250; 27 Jul 99 2:44 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118wIS-00035n-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:44:48 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA12515); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:38:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:38:28 +0100 Received: from ccrma.Stanford.EDU [36.49.0.84] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA05854); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:38:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from ccrma.stanford.edu ([207.97.74.52]) by ccrma.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08022; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379D0D6D.EA954F44@ccrma.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:37:49 -0400 From: Tobias Kunze X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61C-SGI [en] (X11; U; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael Gogins CC: csound csound Subject: Re: sequencer References: <001401bed7c7$14560cc0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > In the first place, it is simply rhetoric to say that MIDI doesn't have > semantics. Beg pardon. The MIDI standard defines, for instance, 127 "key numbers", which are deliberately left uninterpreted. That is, those numbers simply refer to themselves. It is up to the recipient of the message to come up with semantics. More blatantly, message types such as key pressure or sysex are completely devoid of meaning as far as the standard is concernen. If anything, that warrants the claim that--with few trivial exceptions--MIDI, for the most part, doesn't have semantics. In other words, if you take key numbers as degrees of a tempered chromatic scale, you comply to a an arbitrary subset of MIDI, not the standard. As far as duration goes, unless you get input from a MIDI file, there simply is no such thing. That is, whatever your "Extended MIDI" looks like, if it deals with durations instead of an untimed stream of events, it is incompatible with MIDI, not a proper extension of it. In practice, while your protocol may allow translation to MIDI for certain data, it can't translate MIDI without additional information. Returning to the topic at hand, a csound "sequencer" whose underlying representation of musical events requires durations is incompatible with real-time MIDI input. Likewise, csound itelf is incompatible with real-time MIDI input unless you extend the "duration" of all csound instruments infinitely, thus in effect doing away with the duration requirement (the "MIDI kludge"). (`Real-time' here of course is used in its full sense of "without knowledge about future events", not in the limited sense of a sequencer "playing back" a stored and thus known sequence in real-time.) -Tobias Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00272; 27 Jul 99 2:55 BST Received: from [169.207.2.78] (helo=mailgw01.execpc.com ident=sendmail) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118vVz-0004Fh-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:54:43 +0100 Received: from whipit.devo.com (IDENT:user95553@whipit.devo.com [169.207.56.242]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.1) id UAA16311; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:55:48 -0500 Received: from devo.com (t-27-182-74.dialup.wisc.edu [144.92.182.74]) by whipit.devo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA14039; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:56:42 -0500 Message-ID: <379D112F.8EB8A272@devo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:53:51 -0500 From: Matti Khler-Busch Organization: the RaabidMuttn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Digeridoo References: <379A7A6F.25E070BC@devo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Many thanks. jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > >From my archives.... > > > > ; This patch generates the sound of a didjerido > ; by means of wave shaping.... > > ; Michel Peters > ; Utrecht School of the Arts > ; dep. Musictechnology > ; course year MT-t-1 94/95 > > sr=44100 > kr=441 > ksmps=100 > nchnls=2 > > instr 1 > > ;=======ENVELOPES==================================================== > kenv1 linseg 0, .1p3, 1, .8p3, 1, p3.1, 0 ;/--\(FADE IN/OUT) > > ;=======LFO'S======================================================== > klfo1 randi .02, 20, .123 > klfo2 randi .02, 10, .23 > klfo3 randi 500, 5, .67 > ;=======SIGNAL-PROCESSING============================================ > anoise rand .05 ;NOISE > asin1 oscili .3+klfo2, p5+klfo1, 1 ;FREQ+LFO'S > awave1 tablei asin1, 2, 1, .5 ;WAVESHAPING/SQA.+RES. > afilter reson awave1+anoise,1000, 1000+klfo3 > abal balance afilter,awave1 > ;=======OUTPUT======================================================= > outs abalkenv1p4,abalkenv1p4 > endin > > > ;========================================================SCORE======= > ; a test-score for the wave shaped didge > > f1 0 1024 10 1 > f2 0 1024 7 0 32 1 32 .7 64 .9 54 .6 64 1 54 .7 64 1 44 .8 84 .6 40 -.6 84 -.8 > 44 -1 64 -.7 54 -1 64 -.6 54 -.9 64 -.7 32 -1 32 0 > > ;instr start dur amp freq > i1 0 5 29000 65 > e > > -- 6669the RaabidMuttn Speaks6999 Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00302; 27 Jul 99 3:00 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118vaX-0004Fu-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:59:25 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA03812); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:56:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:55:50 +0100 Received: from sendmail@mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA06711); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:55:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from whipit.devo.com (IDENT:user95553@whipit.devo.com [169.207.56.242]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.1) id UAA16311; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:55:48 -0500 Received: from devo.com (t-27-182-74.dialup.wisc.edu [144.92.182.74]) by whipit.devo.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id UAA14039; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:56:42 -0500 Message-ID: <379D112F.8EB8A272@devo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:53:51 -0500 From: Matti Khler-Busch Organization: the RaabidMuttn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Digeridoo References: <379A7A6F.25E070BC@devo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Many thanks. jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: > >From my archives.... > > > > ; This patch generates the sound of a didjerido > ; by means of wave shaping.... > > ; Michel Peters > ; Utrecht School of the Arts > ; dep. Musictechnology > ; course year MT-t-1 94/95 > > sr=44100 > kr=441 > ksmps=100 > nchnls=2 > > instr 1 > > ;=======ENVELOPES==================================================== > kenv1 linseg 0, .1p3, 1, .8p3, 1, p3.1, 0 ;/--\(FADE IN/OUT) > > ;=======LFO'S======================================================== > klfo1 randi .02, 20, .123 > klfo2 randi .02, 10, .23 > klfo3 randi 500, 5, .67 > ;=======SIGNAL-PROCESSING============================================ > anoise rand .05 ;NOISE > asin1 oscili .3+klfo2, p5+klfo1, 1 ;FREQ+LFO'S > awave1 tablei asin1, 2, 1, .5 ;WAVESHAPING/SQA.+RES. > afilter reson awave1+anoise,1000, 1000+klfo3 > abal balance afilter,awave1 > ;=======OUTPUT======================================================= > outs abalkenv1p4,abalkenv1p4 > endin > > > ;========================================================SCORE======= > ; a test-score for the wave shaped didge > > f1 0 1024 10 1 > f2 0 1024 7 0 32 1 32 .7 64 .9 54 .6 64 1 54 .7 64 1 44 .8 84 .6 40 -.6 84 -.8 > 44 -1 64 -.7 54 -1 64 -.6 54 -.9 64 -.7 32 -1 32 0 > > ;instr start dur amp freq > i1 0 5 29000 65 > e > > -- 6669the RaabidMuttn Speaks6999 Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00328; 27 Jul 99 3:06 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118wdn-000364-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:06:51 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA03041); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:02:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:02:11 +0100 Received: from out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA06380); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:02:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-159-141.dc.us.ibm.net [32.100.159.141]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA118890 for ; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:02:03 GMT Message-ID: <379D1458.D8A3D4AE@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:07:20 -0400 From: "Job M. van Zuijlen" Reply-To: zuijlen@ibm.net Organization: electona X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Csound List Subject: Re: sequencer References: <001001bed723$78ebd060$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> <379C6795.34ACD410@ccrma.stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The discussion between the two gentlemen seems to be about "semantics." I think it is laudable if someone wants to use MIDI to control Csound. I already have a sequencer that can output MIDI, so I would gladly use whatever someone came up with, semantics or not. Does a Csound score have semantics or is it just a bunch of of numbers? The score has to be interpreted somewhere, doesn't it? So if someone devises a mapping from MIDI fields to P fields which then get interpreted, isn't that all we want? I would be satisfied and pleased, as long as I don't have to dive into CM again. Job van Zuijlen Tobias Kunze wrote: > > > The simplest thing would be to use MIDI semantics but with float values. > > Thus key 60.5 would be 1/4 tone sharper than C. > > Please don't. > For the most part, pitch included, MIDI doesn't have semantics. > It would be wrong, therefore, to equate "60" with "middle-C" or > a unit increase in keynumbers with one tempered half-step. > > Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00425; 27 Jul 99 3:48 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118wKQ-0004Ge-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:46:50 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA06964); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:43:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:42:50 +0100 Received: from root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA09102); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:42:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm2-09.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.41]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id WAA13590; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907270242.WAA13590@renoir.op.net> To: zuijlen@ibm.net cc: Csound List Subject: Re: sequencer In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:07:20 EDT." <379D1458.D8A3D4AE@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:49:06 -0400 From: Paul Barton-Davis Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk In message <379D1458.D8A3D4AE@ibm.net>you write: >The discussion between the two gentlemen seems to be about "semantics." >I think it is laudable if someone wants to use MIDI to control Csound. >I already have a sequencer that can output MIDI, so I would gladly use >whatever someone came up with, semantics or not. Does a Csound score >have semantics or is it just a bunch of of numbers? as tobias and i have pointed out, but i feel i must repeat, the fundamental problem with MIDI control of Csound is the deep assumption in a lot of Csound opcodes that voice duration is known. this kind of assumption is at odds with the way MIDI works, since MIDI has no concept of duration. i know that when i sat and thought hard about how to do this in quasimodo, i made all voices have infinite duration. that is, a voice plays until its turned off, and no opcode can assume that the total duration of the voice is known. Removing p3 dependencies has been one of the trickier aspects of opcode porting to quasimodo, and it is a big obstacle to easy use of .orc files as quasimodules, because p3 just doesn't exist if the instrument in question is under MIDI control. there are some beautiful instrument designs out there (hans, step forward please :), but they can't be easily adapted to real-time MIDI control because they use p3 in a fundamental way. so, yes, a Csound score has some semantics, because its very definition includes a specification of voice duration that is absent is a MIDI data stream. --p Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00492; 27 Jul 99 4:19 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118xmV-00038D-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:19:55 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA00667); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:15:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:15:13 +0100 Received: from root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA01866); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:15:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm2-09.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.41]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id XAA16227 for ; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199907270315.XAA16227@renoir.op.net> To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: real-time control, MIDI, p3 [was Re: sequencer] In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:53:51 CDT." <379D112F.8EB8A272@devo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:21:34 -0400 From: Paul Barton-Davis Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk just to follow up on my previous message. just today, jpff posted michel peters' didjerido instrument. what is the first line of the instrument ? >> instr 1 >> >> ;=======ENVELOPES==================================================== >> kenv1 linseg 0, .1p3, 1, .8p3, 1, p3.1, 0 ;/--\(FADE IN/OUT) notice the instant reliance on p3. just a small example of an instrument that cannot easily be used with real-time control (MIDI or otherwise) since p3 is not known. again, in quasimodo, i came up with a radically different approach to enveloping, which is typically where p3 comes into play. i wrote a new opcode called "envelope". here's an example of its use: ---------------------------------------------------------------- ;Category Audio/Generators instr "Enveloped Oscillator" aoutput init 0 asig init 0 kfrequency init cpsmidi kwavetable init "sine1" krel init 0 kontrig init 0 knharmonics init 1 ienvduration init 5 ienvelope init "Enveloped Oscillator" kenv init 1 kenvsection init 0 ; start in the first section kenvamplitude init 1 isection2_offset init -1 isection3_offset init -1 isection4_offset init -1 isection5_offset init -1 polyphonic midibind kenv envelope ienvelope, ienvduration, kenvsection, kenvamplitude, \ 0, \ isection2_offset, \ isection3_offset, \ isection4_offset, \ isection5_offset kontrig = 1 asig buzz kenv, kfrequency, knharmonics, kwavetable aoutput += asig --------------------------------------------------------------------------- a couple of quasimodo-context explanations: tables and instruments have names, not numbers. "polyphonic" specifies that the instrument can be invoked to create multiple simultaneous voices, which is actually the default, but is there for completeness. "midibind" turns on automatic mapping of noteOn/noteOff MIDI messages for the port/channel currently set for the instrument into voice creation/deletion. also, "+=" is supported in quasimodo, but not csound, and is essential to proper polyphonic operation. "envelope" --------- "envelope" takes a function table [ienvelope], and does interpolated table lookup into [kenv]. the total duration represented by the table is given by [ienvduration]. there are two keys to its operation. first, the value of [kenvsection] selects one of the offset arguments. the offsets act as both the starting point for, and a limit on, the table lookup pointer. so, if [kenvsection] is currently 0, table lookup begins at table index 0, and ends at table index [isection2_offset]. if the pointer reaches the endpoint, it remains there (i.e. [kenv] gets a constant value) until [kenvsection] ends. the only exception to this is if the pointer is the last defined "section" of the table. then, when the pointer reaches the end of the section, an internal mechanism is used to turn off the voice after the end of the current control cycle (i.e. the voice gets to use the last value of [kenv], and is then turned off). but wait, you may say, what about [ienvduration] ? doesn't that imply known voice length ? No. All it determines the speed of the table lookup pointer through the table. If there is only one section in the table (i.e. 0 or 1 offset arguments), then indeed, it will affect the total voice duration. however ... here is the internal trick in the opcode - if the relevant noteOff has been received for a voice (more generally, if the voice is marked as "releasing" (aka "relesing" in the Csound source)), then it immediately switches to the last section of the table. so, to make this work for MIDI, you simply provide two offsets within the table, thus defining two sections. Then, when the noteOn occurs, table lookup begins at the first offset and continues until it reaches the second offset. [kenv] then becomes constant. when the noteOff is received, table lookup "starts again" from the second offset, and proceeds to the end of the table. thus, the second section of the table defines the "release" envelope. note that strange effects can be obtained by k-rate alteration of [kenvsection], effectively causing the table lookup to "jump" to different sections of the function table. this is a highly flexible approach to enveloping, more flexible than ADSR or its descendants, and usable with real-time control in a way that envelope lines based on a known p3 is not. and of course, quasimodo lets you draw the envelope function tables graphically, either free hand, as splines, or straight-line segments, though it doesn't require that. i plan to backport this opcode to Csound someday. --p Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa00514; 27 Jul 99 4:39 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 118x8L-0004HH-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 03:38:25 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA17067); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:34:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:34:37 +0100 Received: from ccrma.Stanford.EDU [36.49.0.84] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA18466); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 04:34:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from ccrma.stanford.edu ([207.97.74.49]) by ccrma.stanford.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08717; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <379D28BE.D5CB5232@ccrma.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:34:22 -0400 From: Tobias Kunze X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61C-SGI [en] (X11; U; IRIX 6.5 IP22) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Barton-Davis CC: zuijlen@ibm.net, Csound List Subject: Re: sequencer References: <199907270242.WAA13590@renoir.op.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Many thanks for the clarification, Paul. To really drive the point home, it seems as if Job and many other confuse "driven by MIDI in real-time" performances with "driven by a sequencer in real-time using the MIDI protocol plus various other knowledge the sequencer has about the MIDI, specifically knowledge about future data". The latter, of course, is quite possible. The former is impossible without serious limitations in the orchestra design department. Sorry to hear you didn't like Common Music, Job. :) -Tobias Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01034; 27 Jul 99 9:05 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 1192F5-0003HC-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:05:43 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA05385); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:59:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:59:12 +0100 Received: from claire.a2000.nl [62.108.1.21] by hermes via ESMTP (IAA12771); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:59:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from hardy-1-p ([192.168.17.113] helo=hardy-1.a2000.nl) by claire.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 11928m-0001qY-00 for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:59:12 +0200 Received: from hardy-1.a2000.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by hardy-1.a2000.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA50A2; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:58:13 +0200 Received: from smtp2.a2000.nl ([192.168.18.20]) by hardy-1.a2000.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3771 for ; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:17:02 +0200 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk ([144.173.6.14] helo=exeter.ac.uk) by smtp2.a2000.nl with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #4) id 112TMv-0005nB-00 for D.W.Perry@fibre.a2000.nl; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 07:38:41 +0200 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (GAA04650); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 06:35:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 9 Jul 1999 06:34:40 +0100 Received: from dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2] by hermes via ESMTP (GAA03026); Fri, 9 Jul 1999 06:34:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from seanet.com (cy24.dialup.seanet.com [207.12.136.24]) by mx.seanet.com (8.9.3/Seanet-8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA04262; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 22:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37858B6A.AC788697@seanet.com> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:40:58 -0700 From: Sean Costello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: craig routt CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: [[OT] Languages / Re: Proposal for a new version of Csound] References: <19990709050414.10811.qmail@nw175.netaddress.usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk craig routt wrote: > you run the outputs of two buckets into each others input following the > convention laid down by en ( or perhaps it was pop electronics) a couple > of months ago. Are you refering to an Electronotes article here? I have all the issues up through 1997; have there been any new issues? > use a vco as a clock input to sr. Unfortunately, I can't think of any computer that can implement true multiple, variable sampling rates, such as you would have with a VCO modulating a delay clock input. We are forced to deal with using a single sampling rate, and working around it with various forms of interpolation. This is frustrating when coming from an analog perspective, but it is just the cold hard facts. > then fm the clock with a bit of feedback signal. Now, THIS you can do with Csound. Just create your own pluck orchestra, out of a delayr/delayw pair, and using deltapi for the main pluck tone, with a simple tone filter in the feedback loop. You may find, however, that FMing the pluck delay line itself yields somewhat unsatisfactory results, as the "ring" time will be tied in with the length of the delay line, and rapidly changing the delay time will do strange things. I would recommend using a second delay after the pluck sound, and modulating the length of the second delay. This will give you an FM sound that does not affect the basic response time of the pluck sound. You can have the output of the second delay modulating the delay time of the second delay (make sure sr=kr, which holds true for all feedback-type orchestras). For some work along the lines you are describing, check out Tim Stilson's paper, "General Weirdness with the Karplus-Strong String," at http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~stilti/papers/Welcome.html Another suggestion: Try using a frequency shifter in the feedback loop, or after the output of the pluck. The frequency shifter can be modulated at audio rates to produce some very nice FM sounds. See the hilbert opcode documentation for info on how to set this up. Hope this is useful, Sean Costello Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01689; 27 Jul 99 12:16 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 1194GG-0004Yp-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:15:04 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA18189); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:11:05 +0100 (BST) From: Dspondike@aol.com Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:10:54 +0100 Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA02675); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:10:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from Dspondike@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id 2OLGa02749 (14382); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:09:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <623d4715.24ceed83@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:09:55 EDT Subject: Re: sequencer (Extended midi) To: gogins@nyc.pipeline.com CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Sorry if this comment is off the mark. But would the CCMRAH stage 1 and stage 2 midi formats be applicable to this thread? I haven't looked too closesly at them yet, but based on the other Musedata formats, I would think duration would be encoded in their midi formats. David Dspondike@aol.com Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01759; 27 Jul 99 12:42 BST Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 1195cV-0003NJ-00 for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:42:07 +0100 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA18311); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:28:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:28:14 +0100 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA05536); Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:28:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from Realizer (user-2ive5oc.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.23.12]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA10344; Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:26:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01bed823$365752a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> From: Michael Gogins To: zuijlen@ibm.net, Paul Barton-Davis MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Cc: Csound List Subject: Re: sequencer Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 07:28:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The p3 issue is a real one but it is not insuperable. The solution is for realtime score events to have p3 set negative (infinite duration) until a note off event, at which time the topmost realtime event on the stack is popped off and its p3 set to the total elapsed time, at which point the instrument can trap the note off and either turn itself off, let itself be turned off, or extend p3 to perform a controlled decay. This would indeed enable the writing of the same instrument definitions for both realtime and non-realtime performance, and it would remove the necessity for the MIDI note on and note off opcodes in Csound (although they obviously should not be removed). -----Original Message----- From: Paul Barton-Davis To: zuijlen@ibm.net Cc: Csound List Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 10:43 PM Subject: Re: sequencer >In message <379D1458.D8A3D4AE@ibm.net>you write: >>The discussion between the two gentlemen seems to be about "semantics." >>I think it is laudable if someone wants to use MIDI to control Csound. >>I already have a sequencer that can output MIDI, so I would gladly use >>whatever someone came up with, semantics or not. Does a Csound score >>have semantics or is it just a bunch of of numbers? > >as tobias and i have pointed out, but i feel i must repeat, the >fundamental problem with MIDI control of Csound is the deep assumption >in a lot of Csound opcodes that voice duration is known. > >this kind of assumption is at odds with the way MIDI works, since MIDI >has no concept of duration. > >i know that when i sat and thought hard about how to do this in >quasimodo, i made all voices have infinite duration. that is, a voice >plays until its turned off, and no opcode can assume that the total >duration of the voice is known. Removing p3 dependencies has been one >of the trickier aspects of opcode porting to quasimodo, and it is a >big obstacle to easy use of .orc files as quasimodules, because p3 >just doesn't exist if the instrument in question is under MIDI >control. there are some beautiful instrument designs out there (hans, >step forward please :), but they can't be easily adapted to real-time >MIDI control because they use p3 in a fundamental way. > >so, yes, a Csound score has some semantics, because its very >definition includes a specification of voice duration that is absent >is a MIDI data stream. > >--p