> there are a number of MacOS/PPC emulators out there for Linux and NT as
>well as a PPC board.

And every article/review I've ever seen about them,unsurprisingly, says 
they're a waste of time and money.
If you want to use PPC,you have to have a Mac.Perhaps you should upgrade 
your Linux box,there's a lot of stuff available for that. In case you 
haven't been there already,Dave Phillip's site is THE place to find out 
about Linux audio/music apps : 


Oh,in case anyone with a PowerMac needs to run any Windows,or any other 
software that runs on an Intel platform,Connectix Virtual PC is the 
emulator to get.It evidently does quite a good job of 
emulating a Pentium with MMX,along with the rest of that platform's 
architecture.Cheap too,$49.95,DOS version in which you can load any 
compatible OS (Linux,NT,Win95,etc.) & $150,
with Win 95.

Later,
Drew











Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04304;
          26 Apr 98 13:10 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15874;
          26 Apr 98 13:10 BST
Received: (qmail 7407 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1998 12:10:41 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1998 12:10:41 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (NAA18675); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:06:34 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 26 Apr 98 13:05:30 +0100
Received: from bom2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.1.1] by hermes via ESMTP (NAA06894); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:05:21 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [202.54.17.35] ([202.54.17.35])
	by bom2.vsnl.net.in (8.8.5/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA29246
	for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:35:28 +0530 (IST)
Message-Id: <199804261205.RAA29246@bom2.vsnl.net.in>
Subject: 3D FFT vs. 2D FFT
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 98 17:35:53 -0000
X-Mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1
From: Drew Skyfyre 
To: Contribute 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Hi,
Can anyone tell me what the differences/advantages are of 3D FFt displays 
vs common 2D ones ?

Thanks in advance,
Drew











Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04362;
          26 Apr 98 13:49 BST
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16807;
          26 Apr 98 13:49 BST
Received: (qmail 4600 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1998 12:49:36 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1998 12:49:36 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (NAA00798); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:45:30 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 26 Apr 98 13:45:12 +0100
Received: from [193.121.99.70] by hermes via ESMTP (NAA04752); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:45:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from pavell.com ([193.190.88.183]) by hurricane.netgate.be
          (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-32575U60) with ESMTP id AAA290
          for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:49:31 +0200
Message-Id: <35432900.ABC0D1DF@pavell.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:30:56 +0200
From: David Schuyeteneer 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Csound List 
Subject: JARGON BUSTER !
Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk


Hello fellow seesaunders, I have been absent on this list due to modem
failure...

now I'm back, lets kick a** immediatly !!

could somebody explain me what "STOCHASTIC" means ???

also I have heard about a repeat or loop opcode in csound 3.48 what
exactly does it ??

what are the other changes/news in CS 3.48 ??

 

David.

 














Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04622;
          26 Apr 98 16:59 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21895;
          26 Apr 98 16:59 BST
Received: (qmail 16421 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1998 15:59:24 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1998 15:59:24 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA02561); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:55:58 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 26 Apr 98 16:55:38 +0100
Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.59.113] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA17730); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 16:55:29 +0100 (BST)
Received: from prodigy.net (ppp-207.115.19.60.prodigy.net [207.115.19.60])
	by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA42956;
	Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:51:36 -0400
Message-Id: <354357BE.20BA81A0@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 11:50:25 -0400
From: Carlton Wilkinson 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Richard Dobson 
Cc: Csound list 
Subject: Re: instruments
References: <199804250027.TAA25868@xochi.tezcat.com> <3541C11C.9801A54A@cableinet.co.uk> <3541EE7B.40AADFA@prodigy.net> <354216BB.1CE85A57@cableinet.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Thanks for your thoughtful response. It cleared up some things, and I beg the
list's indulgence to point those out.

Richard Dobson wrote:

> The point was, by example, that some great creative minds, spirits, can see
> unrealised potential in instruments or systems, which others are still
> striving to exploit to the full - without contradicting what is perceived to
> be the essential character of the instrument. It is an inevitable, dynamic,
> multi-dimensional process

> As for supposed 'developments', it is not often appreciated by non-players
> that in many cases the particular expressiveness of an instrument (assuming
> it is well designed in the first place) often arises especially from the
> things it ~cannot~  do.

I agree wholeheartedly with all of this. And I didn't get this from your
earlier post--I was interpreting your remarks as direct commentary on the worth
of the MIDI discussion, rather than as tangential (which is not to say
uninteresting).

>Where is this world in which 'pitch is never fixed'? Is 'never' a statement
>of a reality, or another moral imperative?

I was referring to a growing tendency in new music to treat pitch as either a
constant variable (use of gliss., microtone inflection, etc. as a strong
compositional element--everywhere from blues to Ferneyhough) or as a variable
from composition to composition (as in, for instance, the post-Partch
microtonal schools). Should this trend continue into general preference, the
piano will either have to be adapted or risk being used for  only older music.
Most orchestral instruments are capable of microtonal adjustments through
alternative fingerings alone. The piano is lacking in this respect. I wasn't
aware I was speaking in moral imperatives. But I suppose in this case I wasn't
being clear.

>One absolutely final point - I think that if we are truly confident of the
>musical worth of what we do, we have no need to argue the extinction or
>obsolescence of the competition!

Again, I didn't think I was arguing for extinction or obsolescence (and I don't
see historical music as competition, really, if that's what you mean).

For the rest of your post, I will reply in private.
--
Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm












Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04829;
          26 Apr 98 19:07 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa25314;
          26 Apr 98 19:07 BST
Received: (qmail 23206 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1998 18:07:05 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1998 18:07:05 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA04398); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:04:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 26 Apr 98 19:03:42 +0100
Received: from mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.1] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA01007); Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:03:34 +0100 (BST)
Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (0@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.41])
	by mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA27082;
	Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:03:37 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from sndart2.cemi.unt.edu (remote111.server1.local.premium.dialup.unt.edu [129.120.52.111])
	by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28646;
	Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:03:34 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: 
X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on IRIX
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mime-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <354253E7.97B7DBDB@charlieb.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:37:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Michael Thompson 
To: Charles Baker 
Subject: Re: network protocol (was Re: Creamware)
Cc: csound mailing list 
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Floats would be good. But I think Im missing something. Isnt MIDI
transmitted as 8-bit? so how would floats increase the resolution?
There are other ways to increase MIDI resolution.

Some problems in MIDI hardware also. I know of many synths that dont even use
the full 127 step resolution on controllers. Not only
that but depending on the amount of MIDI info getting sent out/in the port can
cause data loss due to the type of network MIDI uses. 

Now using MIDI in Csound... I dont know. I think there are ways in Csound to
increase the resolution coming in from a controller.

Michael
 


On 25-Apr-98 Charles Baker wrote:
> Nathan Day wrote:
> 
>> Why do we want a midi using floating point numbers, its just control
>> information not actual parameters to be used internally.
> 
> Well,are you, or have you ever been an instrumentalist? Any competent
> conservatory trained pianist can tell you that MIDI fails to capture
> dynamic resolution ("nuaces") of their performance. I am a competent
> wind instrumentalist who owns a own a yamaha MIDI wind controller.
> I rather *hate* the velocity/wind pressure mapping...I spend hours twitching
> the adjustments, but in the final analysis, no matter what the settings, in
> *some* range of the dynamics, I will notice annoying "jumping" in
> dynamics...there is just not enough resolution in MIDI's 0-127!!!!!!!
> And also, wouldn't it be nice if one who is interested in just tunings
> (such as a-cappella vocal groups and brass ensembles *require* to
> sound good....) could just send the desired frequency and just the
> right pitch, rather than having to map pitch bend? After all, why are we
> using csound, if not to have that control that has been programmed out of
> most MIDI devices?
> 
> 
> --
> *********************************************
> Charlie Baker              baker@charlieb.com
> *********************************************
> 
> 
> 

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Michael Thompson 
Date: 26-Apr-98
Time: 14:26:35

This message was sent by XFMail
----------------------------------











Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05293;
          27 Apr 98 0:15 BST
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03480;
          27 Apr 98 0:15 BST
Received: (qmail 7646 invoked from network); 26 Apr 1998 23:15:31 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 1998 23:15:31 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA04787); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:12:50 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 00:12:30 +0100
Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net [195.102.240.137] by hermes via SMTP (AAA13529); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:12:23 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bud.u-net.com [194.119.169.233] 
	by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2)
	id 0yTaav-00070I-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:12:26 +0100
Message-Id: <3543C005.629B@bud.u-net.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:15:17 +0100
From: mike 
Reply-To: mike@bud.u-net.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Extended csound
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Hi,

I think it may already have been asked before but could someone with
an extended csound board please indicate the performance via
use of the standard benchmarks? I know the benchmarks are now 
supposed to be too slow to be of interest but it would be 
interesting to see how the card fares.


I mentioned in a previous post my desire to see some alternative to
midi come into existence. I absolutely agree with Larry Troxler when he
says = 

> look up ZIPI, and also what Perry Cook has to offer...

There are already many excellent event formats available just little 
software supports it. Syncing to our sequencers would be essential.
All that i was suggesting was some form of gui for sequencing / editing
an extended message format. Most musical data should be interchangeable
anyway it is just that in some directions ie. csound to midi - data will
be lost via quantization. The format of the message should be agreed 
and then we need to get drivers written for all our diverse os's. 
A non trivial task i think but possible.  The actual interfaces that
could
be of interest to support are :

  1. Internal bus. To a sound / synthesizer card. 
       Should be provided by manufacturer.

  2. USB - mainly intel based so a bit crap.

  3. Firewire - good mac and pc support but i feel workstations are no
go.
       Amazingly fast interface with support for control and event
streams.

  4. TCPIP Sockets - universally supported ?but has latency issues?

  5. Any others anyone knows about?


On a seperate tack - Michael Gogins wrote...

> This is because it takes much less time to write software than it does to
> create chips and firmware, and regular PCs are now fast enough to do
> considerable DSP and synthesis in real time.
> In the first place, I firmly believe that the future of music lies strictly
> in software, the only hardware being the computer itself, the control

Well software has to be running on both processors whether host or dsp.
Hopefully Ansi C should make the development task similar. The chip
company
should design the chip and either them or the sort of company that makes
sound blaster clones for $25 should put them on a board and write a
message driver.

Software synthesis code handles the low level oscilators, effects and io
and then all subsequent development happens in the orc language 
so subsequent development costs should be identical. External boxes have
the advantage of being platform independent and very scalable but plug
in
cards can be much cheaper.

It surely should be in ADIs (or other chip firms) interest to create the
firmware, software, hardware and also drivers because then they will 
sell shedloads more chips. A market will not form in my opinion unless
the development environment is up to it.  If they do not want to create 
then they could fund / licence possibly.

...
> and regular PCs are now fast enough to do
> considerable DSP and synthesis in real time.

I disagree with the above statement with respect to complexity and
with latency. Although pcs make excellent guis it is too much to
expect <1ms latency on multiple audio streams and i feel this may be
the case for a number of years. This means that chaining of devices
becomes impossible.

A recent post talked about parallel processing not giving 100% 
efficiency gain per added processor. While this is true for shared
memory it is not necessarily the case for external chips as long
as the interconnect is up to it - midi is not unfortunately.

I think the problem with tcp/ip is that it also has latency troubles,
although i don't have any figures.

Just some thoughts,

Mike Chapman.











Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05428;
          27 Apr 98 1:56 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06171;
          27 Apr 98 1:56 BST
Received: (qmail 9538 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 00:56:43 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 00:56:43 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA24399); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:53:46 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 01:53:29 +0100
Received: from GS160.SP.CS.CMU.EDU [128.2.203.172] by hermes via SMTP (BAA15031); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 01:53:22 +0100 (BST)
Message-Id: <199804270053.BAA15031@hermes>
Subject: Re: JARGON BUSTER !
To: Csound mailing list 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eli Brandt 
In-Reply-To: <35432900.ABC0D1DF@pavell.com> from "David Schuyeteneer" at Apr 26, 98 02:30:56 pm
X-Portmanteau: pantryptaminergeticallysisterrainbowtie
Reply-To: eli+@cs.cmu.edu
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25-40]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

David Schuyeteneer wrote:
> 
could somebody explain me what "STOCHASTIC" means ???

Like "random", but sounds better in a grant application.
fyi, your mail client is misconfigured to send HTML.

-- 
     Eli Brandt  |  eli+@cs.cmu.edu  |  http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/

http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict
http://www.m-w.com/netdict.htm











Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05617;
          27 Apr 98 4:13 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09800;
          27 Apr 98 4:13 BST
Received: (qmail 14858 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 03:13:15 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 03:13:15 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA08451); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:09:03 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 04:08:45 +0100
Received: from send1b.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.23] by hermes via SMTP (EAA27575); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:08:38 +0100 (BST)
Message-Id: <19980427030818.24994.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
Received: from [192.9.25.21] by send1b; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:08:18 PDT
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Qian Chen 
Subject: csound manual ps file
To: Csound 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Hi there,

Does anyone know where I could download the newest version of Csound
manual in PostScript format?

Regards




==
Qian Chen

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com












Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05683;
          27 Apr 98 5:06 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11088;
          27 Apr 98 5:06 BST
Received: (qmail 16089 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 04:06:36 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 04:06:36 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA16614); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:58:32 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 04:58:12 +0100
Received: from kgallagh@tornado.ocis.temple.edu [155.247.166.103] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA22307); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 04:58:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from localhost (kgallagh@localhost)
	by tornado.ocis.temple.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA11874
	for ; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:58:08 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:58:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kevin Gallagher 
To: Csound Discussion List 
Subject: Csound and MIDI
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Greetings!

My name is Kevin Gallagher and I have been working with Csound for about a
semester now.  I'm a newbie here, and I have a question that may have
already been discussed, but that I'd like to ask just the same.

Can anyone offer insight about controlling Csound instruments in real time
with a MIDI controller (using cpsmidi, ampmidi, whatever other commands)?
It's been my experience that it can be done but takes a hefty amount of
processing power.  What other things should I know?  (the fastest machine
I've tried so far has been a Mac 8500.)

Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

			Kevin Gallagher, kgallagh@astro.temple.edu 
			Web Address - http://astro.temple.edu/~kgallagh












Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05811;
          27 Apr 98 5:27 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11598;
          27 Apr 98 5:27 BST
Received: (qmail 16586 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 04:27:10 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 04:27:10 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA14988); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:24:25 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 05:23:59 +0100
Received: from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58] by hermes via ESMTP (FAA02630); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:23:49 +0100 (BST)
Received: from axe (user-38ld1cl.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.133.149])
	by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA16126;
	Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:23:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gogins 
To: Nathan Day , 
    Csound mailing list 
Subject: Re: network protocol (was Re: Creamware)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:32:34 -0400
Message-Id: <01bd7195$7fcf4dc0$958556d1@axe>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

>Why do we want a midi using floating point numbers, its just control
information not actual parameters to be used internally.
>

Just one example: floating point key numbers would allow pitches to
specified precisely, e.g. for just intonation, without doing some hack with
pitch bends.

127 dynamic levels really are not enough for music.

Etc.












Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05817;
          27 Apr 98 5:30 BST
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11712;
          27 Apr 98 5:29 BST
Received: (qmail 9097 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 04:29:57 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 04:29:57 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA06461); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:27:17 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 05:26:43 +0100
Received: from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58] by hermes via ESMTP (FAA04584); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:26:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from axe (user-38ld1cl.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.133.149])
	by camel8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA02511;
	Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:26:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Gogins 
To: Michael Thompson , 
    Charles Baker 
Cc: csound mailing list 
Subject: Re: network protocol (was Re: Creamware)
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:35:25 -0400
Message-Id: <01bd7195$e6051340$958556d1@axe>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Thompson 
To: Charles Baker 
Cc: csound mailing list 
Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: network protocol (was Re: Creamware)


>Floats would be good. But I think Im missing something. Isnt MIDI
>transmitted as 8-bit? so how would floats increase the resolution?

Floats have 32 bits divided between mantissa and exponent. Doubles have 64.
That's a LOT more resolution.

>Some problems in MIDI hardware also. I know of many synths that dont even
use
>the full 127 step resolution on controllers. Not only
>that but depending on the amount of MIDI info getting sent out/in the port
can
>cause data loss due to the type of network MIDI uses.

Whether synths use the entire MIDI resolution or not is beside the point.
The MIDI resolution is inadequate for serious music, period.












Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06231;
          27 Apr 98 11:08 BST
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa25125;
          27 Apr 98 11:08 BST
Received: (qmail 10881 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 10:08:48 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 10:08:48 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA27056); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:52:37 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 10:52:18 +0100
Received: from pluto.senet.com.au [203.11.90.2] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA00437); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:52:08 +0100 (BST)
Received: from c6-p17.senet.com.au (c6-p17.senet.com.au [203.56.238.82])
	by pluto.senet.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06833
	for ; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:21:20 +0930
Date: 27 Apr 98 19:20:48 +0930
Subject: More on floats in Midi
From: Nathan Day 
To: Csound mailing list 
X-Mailer: Cyberdog/2.0
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Simple 16 bit integers would allow you to divide 10 octaves into interval
of 0.183105 cents, and a dynamic range of 130 dB into intervals 0.00198364
dB, do we really need 32 bit floats or even floats at all. Remember that
midi is designed to represent music in a abstract musical way, not actually
physical values like Hz and watts. Things like tunings should be set in the
synth not on your Midi keyboards or what every. All right dynamic tunning
is an idea I myself find interesting but 0.183 cents should handle that.

Nathan Day
nathand@senet.com.au















Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06778;
          27 Apr 98 12:54 BST
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01598;
          27 Apr 98 12:54 BST
Received: (qmail 11526 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 11:54:43 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 11:54:43 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA06769); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:42:14 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 12:41:44 +0100
Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (MAA03728); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:41:37 +0100 (BST)
Received: from omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.99.25] (mmdf)
	by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1)
	id 0yTmI8-0005wW-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:41:48 +0100
Date:     Mon, 27 Apr 98 12:41:42 BST
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject:  Re: Re; Csnd 3.47 to 3.48
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-Id: 
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Message written at 24 Apr 1998 19:04:33 +0100
--- Copy of mail to ada@skyenet.net ---
In-reply-to: <199804240258.VAA26368@skye1.skyenet.net> (ada@skyenet.net)
References:  <199804240258.VAA26368@skye1.skyenet.net>

I do wonder myself!  I suspect I changed some magic option, or removed
debugging or something.  
==John

>>>>> "Andy" == A Archias  writes:

 Andy>   I have to ask, why is the winsound.exe ver 3.47 =1.8meg and the 3.48
 Andy> version so much smaller (appr 717K) ?














Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06791;
          27 Apr 98 12:57 BST
Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01877;
          27 Apr 98 12:57 BST
Received: (qmail 20033 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 11:57:17 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 11:57:17 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA11903); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:43:33 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 12:43:05 +0100
Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (MAA22728); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:42:57 +0100 (BST)
Received: from omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.99.25] (mmdf)
	by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1)
	id 0yTmJQ-0005ws-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:43:08 +0100
Date:     Mon, 27 Apr 98 12:43:03 BST
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject:  Re: Sources and such
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-Id: 
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Message written at 26 Apr 1998 22:21:22 +0100
In-reply-to: 
	(jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk)

I have transferred the MAC binaries and sources Monday am.  The SGI
binaries were placed om the server late last week.
==John ffitch











Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06808;
          27 Apr 98 13:00 BST
Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02196;
          27 Apr 98 13:00 BST
Received: (qmail 11551 invoked from network); 27 Apr 1998 12:00:43 -0000
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14)
  by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 1998 12:00:43 -0000
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA03506); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:44:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 27 Apr 98 12:43:53 +0100
Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (MAA15059); Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:43:46 +0100 (BST)
Received: from omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.99.25] (mmdf)
	by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1)
	id 0yTmKC-0005x6-00; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:43:56 +0100
Date:     Mon, 27 Apr 98 12:43:51 BST
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject:  Re: MSVC makefile
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-Id: 
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk

Message written at 26 Apr 1998 22:44:18 +0100
--- Copy of mail to g.maldonado@agora.stm.it ---
In-reply-to: <353DA355.7812F982@agora.stm.it> (message from Gabriel Maldonado
	on Wed, 22 Apr 1998 09:59:17 +0200)
References:  <353DA355.7812F982@agora.stm.it>

As Nicola pointed out -* could be a problem for many shells.  I would
suggest either -X (for extention) or -Z as a random value.  
==John ffitch