| Message written at 7 Jun 1999 06:11:25 +0100
--- Copy of mail to jts1@iamerica.net ---
Could you tell be a few more details about your machine? I have not
seen a winsound crash for some while now, so either I am lucky or
there is something about Windows98 which is different. How much
memory do you have for example? Not that that shoudl affect
it.... does it crash on simple orchestras like the bach.orc/sco
example?
==John ffitch
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08158;
7 Jun 99 14:36 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10qzZp-0002cZ-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:36:33 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA09941); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:31:58 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:31:46 +0100
Received: from root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA09879); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:31:40 +0100 (BST)
Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm2-1b.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.59]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id JAA01858 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:31:30 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199906071331.JAA01858@renoir.op.net>
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound
In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Jun 1999 18:16:34 EDT."
<001001beb06a$3da380a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:39:39 -0400
From: Paul Barton-Davis
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
>>The 96dB dynamic range of 16-bit samples is arguably
>>too small, but that's different than saying that 16-bit resolution is too
>>small. There is much less evidence of the latter, and the arguments
>>I've heard for adding more than a bit or two of resolution have amounted
>>to hand-waving, at best.
>
>I don't think the pro audio business is basing its investment and
>engineering decisions on hand-waving.
why not ? most other business operate on much the same basis, at least
part of the time. remember: the role of the pro audio business is to
make money; they make money by making people happy enough to want to
spend money on their products; they make people happy by convincing
them that their products are better than other possibilities. given
the complete lack of double blind testing by most people, this is
often done with hand-waving and pseudo-science babble at its best.
i'm not criticizing the excellent people who work in the pro audio
field, but they are part of an endeavour whose role is to make money,
not just to do the best thing. they may conceive of their role as
being whole technical, but they are part of a very complex process
(one that is well documented for the instrument side of things in a
book called "Making Music - Consuming Technology", I forget the author).
24 bits at 96 KHz is the emerging pro
>standard. It is also the emerging audiophile digital audio standard.
actually, the "emerging" audiophile digital audio standard is 192KHz,
but not without a lot of disagreements over whether this is actually
necessary. Analog Devices Inc., for example, will soon have a DSP that
can handle this sampling rate, but it's designer thought it was a
mistake :)
--p
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08533;
7 Jun 99 16:16 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r18X-0002kz-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:16:29 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA14416); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:06:26 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:06:13 +0100
Received: from mail2.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.56] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA14134); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:06:12 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bellsouth.net (host-216-76-170-181.gnv.bellsouth.net [216.76.170.181])
by mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08374
for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:06:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <375BDFF2.A45E3714@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:06:27 -0400
From: Patrick Pagano
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Csound List
Subject: grains and high frequency
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="------------60D7C6BCB048464138D41C33"
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------60D7C6BCB048464138D41C33
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi folks
fooling with Grains now and have a dilemma
I render out these two files and they sound fine for about 15 seconds
then a super high pitch appears,which I do not want then it appears
again later on in the piece. I have rebuilt the instrs on another piece
and there is no squeal-can anyone diagnose after rendering it out??
thanks
Pat
--------------60D7C6BCB048464138D41C33
Content-Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-orc_auto_file;
name="grainny.orc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename="grainny.orc"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--------------60D7C6BCB048464138D41C33
Content-Type: application/x-unknown-content-type-sco_auto_file;
name="granny.sco"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename="granny.sco"
ZiAxICAwIDgxOTIgMTAgICAxICAgIA0KZiAyICAwIDgxOTIgIDIwICAgOA0KZiA0ICAwIDgx
OTIgMjAgICAyICAxDQoNCmYgMyAgMCA4MTkyIC0yMCAgIDkgIDENCmY1IDAgNTEyIDcgMCA1
MTIgMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgO0wgdG8gUg0KDQoN
CjsgcDE9SW5zdHIgIHAyOlN0YXJ0ICBwMzpEdXJhdGlvbiAgcDQ6YW1wICBwNTpmcmVxICBw
NjpkZW5zaXR5ICBwNzpVc2VyICBwODpVc2VyICBwOTpVc2VyICA7cDEwOlVzZXIgIHAxMTpV
c2VyICBwMTI6VXNlciAgcDEzOlVzZXIgIA0KaTEgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgNiAgICA2
MDAgICAgNDQ4ICAgIDEwICAgIDQgICAgNjQgICAgMC4wOCAgICAxICAgIDQgICAgMSAgICAw
LjUgIA0KaTEgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDUgICAgNiAgICA2MDAgICAgNTEyICAgIDI4ICAgIDQg
ICAgNjQgICAwLjAzICAgIDEgICAgNCAgICAxICAgIDAuNSAgDQppMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAg
MTAgICAgNiAgICA2MDAgICAgMzg0ICAgIDQyICAgIDQgICAgNjQgICAgMC4wNyAgICAxICAg
IDQgICAgMSAgICAxICANCmkxICAgICAgICAgICAgICAyMCAgICA2ICAgIDYwMCAgICA2NCAg
ICA5MiAgICA0ICAgIDY0ICAgMC4wNSAgICAxICAgIDQgICAgMSAgICAxICANCmkxICAgICAg
ICAgICAgICAzMCAgICA2ICAgIDYwMCAgICA1NDQgICAgMjggICAgNCAgICA2NCAgIDAuMDkg
ICAgMSAgICA0ICAgIDEgICAgMCAgDQppMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMzUgICAgNiAgICA2MDAg
ICAgNDQ4ICAgIDI4ICAgIDQgICAgNjQgICAgMC4wNCAgICAxICAgIDQgICAgMSAgICAwLjUg
IA0KaTEgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDQwICAgIDUgICAgNjAwICAgIDY0ICAgIDEwICAgIDQgICAg
NjQgICAwLjA4ICAgIDEgICAgNCAgICAxICAgIDAuNSAgICANCmkxICAgICAgICAgICAgICAx
ICAgIDYgICAgMTAwMCAgICAxMjggICAgMTAgICAgMiAgIDY0ICAwLjA4ICAgIDEgICAgNCAg
ICAxICAgIDAuNSAgDQppMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgNiAgICA2ICAgIDEwMDAgIDE0MS43NSAg
ICAxMjggICAgMiAgICA2NCAgICAwLjAzICAgIDEgICAgNCAgICAxICAgIDAuNSAgDQppMSAg
ICAgICAgICAgICAgMTEgICAgNiAgIDcwMCAgICAxMjggICAgMTQyICAgICAyICAgIDY0ICAg
MC4wNyAgICAxICAgIDQgICAgMSAgICAwICANCmkxICAgICAgICAgICAgICAxNiAgICA2ICAg
IDcwMCAgICAxMjggICAgMTM2ICAgIDIgICA2NCAgICAwLjAzICAgIDEgICAgNCAgICAxICAg
IDEgDQppMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMjYgICAgNiAgICA2MDAgICAgOTggICAgMTEyICAgIDIg
ICAgNjQgICAwLjA0ICAgIDEgICAgNCAgICAxICAgIDEgIA0KaTEgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDMx
ICAgIDYgICAgNjAwICAgIDE5MiAgICAxMjggICAgMiAgIDY0ICAgIDAuMDkgICAgMSAgICA0
ICAgIDEgICAgMSAgDQppMSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgNDAgICAgNSAgICA2MDAgICAgMjIwLjUg
IDExMCAgICAyICAgIDY0ICAgMC4wOCAgICAxICAgIDQgICAgMSAgICAwLjUgICAgICANCg0K
aTIgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDAgICAgMTAgIDEwMDAgICAgNDQ4ICAgIDEwICAgIDQgICAgMTI4
ICAgIDAuMDggICAgMSAgICA0ICAgMSAgICAxICANCmkyICAgICAgICAgICAgICA1ICAgIDE1
ICAxMDAwICAgIDY0ICAgIDI4ICAgIDQgICAgMTI4ICAwLjAzICAgIDEgICAgNCAgIDEgICAg
MCAgDQppMiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTAgICAgNiAgMTAwMCAgICAzODQgICAgNDIgICAgNCAg
ICAxMjggICAgIDAuMDcgICAgMSAgNCAgMSAgICAxICANCmkyICAgICAgICAgICAgICAzMCAg
ICAzICAgNjAwICAgIDU0NCAgICAyOCAgICA0ICAgIDEyOCAgICAwLjA5ICAgIDEgICAgNCAg
IDEgICAgMCANCmkyICAgICAgICAgICAgICA0MCAgICAzICAgMTAwMCAgICA2NCAgICAxMCAg
ICA0ICAgIDEyOCAgIDAuMDggICAgMSAgICA0ICAgIDEgICAgMA0KaTIgICAgICAgICAgICAg
IDEgICAgMyAgNjAwICAgIDEyOCAgICAxMCAgICAgIDYgICAgNjQgIC4wOCAgICAgICAxICAg
IDQgICAgMSAgICAxICAgICANCmkyICAgICAgICAgICAgICA2ICAgIDMgICA2MDAgIDE0MS43
NSAgICAzICAgIDIgICAgMTI4ICAgIDAuMDggICAgMSAgICA0ICAgIDEgICAgMCAgDQppMiAg
ICAgICAgICAgICAgMTEgICAgMyAgNzAwICAgIDE0NCAgICA1ICAgICAyICAgIDY0ICAgIDAu
MDcgICAgMSAgICA0ICAgMSAgICAxDQppMiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMjQgICAgMyAgIDUwMCAg
MTY1LjM3ICAgMTEgICAgMiAgICA2NCAgICAwLjA1ICAgIDEgICAgNCAgICAxICAgIDEgDQpp
MiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMzEgICAgMyAgIDYwMCAgICAxOTIgICAgMjkgICAgMiAgICAxMjgg
ICAgMC4wOSAgICAxICAgIDQgICAgMSAgICAwIA0KaTIgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDQwICAgIDMg
ICA2MDAgICAgMjIwLjUgIDM3ICAgIDIgICAgNTEyICAgIDAuMDggICAgMSAgICA0ICAgIDEg
ICAgMCAgDQo7bmV3IGRlbGF5IGxpbmUgc3RvbGVuIGZyb20gdmVzdGlnZSANCiBpNDkgMCA0
MCAxIC43ICAgDQogaTUwICAwICA3IDYgIC43MCAgNiAuOTUgDQo7dGhpcyBpcyBmb3IgcmV2
ZXJiIHNldHRpbmdzDQo7PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQo7cDEgCSAgcDIJ
ICBwMwkgICBwNAkgICAgICAgIHA1DQo7aW5zdHIgc3RydAkgZHVyCXJ2YnRpbWUJaGZkaWYN
Cmk5OCAgICAgMAkgNDYJMy4wCSAgICAgICAgLjQNCiAgDQplDQogIA0KO1RvdGFsIHNjb3Jl
IGV2ZW50cyAoaW5zdHIgMSkgPSA0MTANCjtUb3RhbCBzY29yZSBldmVudHMgKEFsbCBjb21w
aWxlZCBJbnN0cnVtZW50cykgPSA0MTANCg==
--------------60D7C6BCB048464138D41C33--
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08677;
7 Jun 99 16:36 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r1Rn-0002ll-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:36:23 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (QAA03245); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:32:46 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:32:38 +0100
Received: from Thuban.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.53.8] by hermes via ESMTP (QAA03160); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:32:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [134.173.54.4] (Presume04.Rmt.HMC.Edu [134.173.54.4])
by THUBAN.AC.HMC.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #36444)
with ESMTP id <01JC426LF9X6A73HRS@THUBAN.AC.HMC.EDU> for
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:32:31 PST
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:31:12 -0700
From: Erik Spjut
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound
In-reply-to: <199906071331.JAA01858@renoir.op.net>
X-Sender: spjut@thuban.ac.hmc.edu
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-id:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
References: "Your message of Sun, 06 Jun 1999 18:16:34 EDT."
<001001beb06a$3da380a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
I've been doing scientific computing (scientific and engineering models of
physical phenomena) for (altogether too) many years. I've reached the point
where the ONLY time I use single-precision floats is to interface with
someone else's code (like when running Csound). In my mind, the principal
reason for using double-precision is to insulate mere mortals from the
concerns of finite-precision numerical analysis. When you get that formula
from the math book (or friendly mathematician), you don't want to have to
analyze roundoff error and determine the best order of evaluation or
alternate forms. You just want to plug it in and use it. Single-precision
won't let you. Double-precision usually does.
When memory was tight, and processor speed slow, we all had to use single
precision, or better yet integers. You can work miracles and wring every
last bit out of a data type if you're willing to analyze roundoff and
truncation, pre scale all of your multiplicands, and precalculate all of
your filter peaks. In these days of a 300 MHz, 64 Mb, $400 machine, why
bother?
Many of us have run into the phasor-increment limit (on long notes, first
the frequency wavers, and then the note stops altogether). Doubles remove
the phasor-increment limit for notes less than a century long. I know there
are tricks to get around it, but why bother?
Recursive or IIR filters (including lpreson) run into stability problems
very easily. Doubles help a lot. I know there are workarounds (such as
ganged 2nd order sections) but why bother?
When I converted my Music11 orc's and sco's to Csound, I ran into a lot of
float problems (Music11 used doubles principally). I fixed them, but I had
to ask myself, why bother?
I am not advocating poor programming practice, but I am advocating getting
the job done with the least effort on my part. For most modern
architectures, the performance difference between floats and doubles is
around 5%. Which is faster, is not always clear. Realtime performance can
take a hit from the cache limit for doubles instead of singles. Long delay
lines can also be only half as long with doubles.
I would personally like to see the default for Csound to be doubles, so
that beginners (and I) have less rope upon which to hang themselves.
However, I don't know about the user base. Perhaps we could take a poll and
see what fraction of the user base depends on realtime and/or 5 minute
delay lines. If it's less than half then the default would be doubles, and
the realtime people could be directed to the most excellent RTsound. If
it's more than half, then floats it is, and perhaps some gracious person
could help us poor souls who need or prefer doubles to get a decent
compiled version.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Prof. R. Erik Spjut (spyoot rhymes with cute)
Engineering Department, Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
erik_spjut@hmc.edu Ph. (909) 607-3890 Fax (909) 621-8967
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08943;
7 Jun 99 18:04 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r2oq-0003qZ-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:04:16 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA00777); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:01:28 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:01:15 +0100
Received: from mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA03912); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:01:14 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [204.143.224.20] ([204.143.224.13]) by mail.infohouse.com
(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35)
with ESMTP id com; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:09:10 -0400
X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To:
References: <199906071331.JAA01858@renoir.op.net> "Your message of Sun, 06
Jun 1999 18:16:34 EDT."
<001001beb06a$3da380a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:04:28 +0100
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
From: tolve
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precis[s]ion in Csound
Cc: Erik Spjut
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Erik Spjut wrote
>
>I would personally like to see the default for Csound to be doubles, so
>that beginners (and I) have less rope upon which to hang themselves.
don't understand any of this thread but less rope sounds good unless i'm
trying to climb out my apartment window (the fire trucks were across the
street again today -i don't know why the phone company building is always
on fire.)
>Perhaps we could take a poll
yes
>see what fraction of the user base depends on realtime
if this is what it comes down to: no realtime here. doubles please.
don't want to step on other users though. is a realtime version of csound
otherwise available on all platforms? (i would think many of the realtimers
would already be using the versions optimized for realtime and therefore
have no reason to object to doubles)
tolve
>If it's less than half then the default would be doubles, and
>the realtime people could be directed to the most excellent RTsound. If
>it's more than half, then floats it is, and perhaps some gracious person
>could help us poor souls who need or prefer doubles to get a decent
>compiled version.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Prof. R. Erik Spjut (spyoot rhymes with cute)
>Engineering Department, Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
>erik_spjut@hmc.edu Ph. (909) 607-3890 Fax (909) 621-8967
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09085;
7 Jun 99 19:16 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r3wJ-0002pR-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:16:03 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA13369); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:12:50 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:12:37 +0100
Received: from mtv@pavo-1.U.Arizona.EDU [128.196.137.195] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA13869); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:12:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from localhost (mtv@localhost)
by pavo.U.Arizona.EDU (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA11457
for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:12:34 -0700 (MST)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:12:34 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark T Vigorito
To: csound mailing list
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
How about singles for ftables and doubles for internal
calcualtions. That way, you get the benifit of the higher precision where
it counts, and you don't overflow your cache ram by doubling the size of
ftables.
I use both real-time and batch rendering about 50/50...
Cheers,
Mark Vigorito
mtv@u.arizona.edu
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09293;
7 Jun 99 21:24 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r5wO-0002rO-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:24:16 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA08755); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:20:15 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:20:02 +0100
Received: from [204.68.23.57] by hermes via SMTP (VAA08850); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:20:01 +0100 (BST)
Received: (qmail 14544 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 1999 20:20:01 -0000
Message-ID: <19990607202001.14543.qmail@nwcst312.netaddress.usa.net>
Received: from 204.68.23.57 by nwcst312 via web-mailer(M3.0.0.135) on Mon Jun 7 20:20:00 GMT 1999
Date: 7 Jun 99 13:20:00 PDT
From: Todd Hodges
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [grains and high frequency]
X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.135)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
I haven't had a chance to try out your orc and sco, Pat. However, the
description of your problem is something that I came across using the gra=
in
opcode last year. I would be interested in hearing any explanation that a=
nyone
might have. My workaround was to create sections in the score. Figure out=
where the first time the high pitched sound occurs. In the score, create =
a new
section before the place where the sound begins:
i1 35 6 600 448 28 4 64 0.04 1 4 1 0.5
s
;etc.
You will need to change the start times for the events in the score that
follow since CSound starts at time 0 for each new section. CSound also do=
es a
bit of "cleaning up" at the end of section, and that seemed to solve the
problem for me.
Good luck!
Todd Hodges
Patrick Pagano wrote:
> Hi folks
> fooling with Grains now and have a dilemma
> I render out these two files and they sound fine for about 15 seconds
> then a super high pitch appears,which I do not want then it appears
> again later on in the piece. I have rebuilt the instrs on another piece=
> and there is no squeal-can anyone diagnose after rendering it out??
> thanks
> Pat
> =
> --------------------------------------------- =
> Attachment:=A0grainny.orc =
> MIME Type:=A0application/x-unknown-content-type-orc_auto_file =
> --------------------------------------------- =
> --------------------------------------------- =
> Attachment:=A0granny.sco =
> MIME Type:=A0application/x-unknown-content-type-sco_auto_file =
> --------------------------------------------- =
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D=
1
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09388;
7 Jun 99 22:23 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r6rx-0002s0-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:23:45 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA13219); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:21:21 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:21:12 +0100
Received: from root@lix.intercom.es [194.179.21.2] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA14287); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:21:11 +0100 (BST)
Received: from intercom.es (iv3-62.intercom.es [195.76.131.62]) by lix.intercom.es (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA19558; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:30:16 +0100
Message-ID: <375C374E.A8890045@intercom.es>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:19:10 +0200
From: Josep M Comajuncosas
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Erik Spjut
CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound
References: "Your message of Sun, 06 Jun 1999 18:16:34 EDT."
<001001beb06a$3da380a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by exeter.ac.uk id WAA14287
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Erik Spjut wrote:
> Perhaps we could take a poll and
> see what fraction of the user base depends on realtime and/or 5 minute
> delay lines.
My vote for doubles by now. And soon plz! ;-)
Sure it won=B4t run slower than my
486 three years ago anyway. jpff?
Erik: I *absolutely* agree with you.
--
Josep M Comajuncosas
C/ Circumval.lacio 75 08790 Gelida - Penedes
Catalunya - SPAIN
home phone : 93 7792243 / 00 34 3 7792243
Csound page at http://members.tripod.com/csound/
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09401;
7 Jun 99 22:34 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r72c-0002sF-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:34:46 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA15447); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:32:17 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:32:06 +0100
Received: from hromeo.algonet.se [194.213.74.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA15287); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:32:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: (qmail 13886 invoked from network); 7 Jun 1999 23:32:04 +0200
Received: from du89-26.ppp.algonet.se (HELO algonet.se) (195.100.26.89)
by hromeo.algonet.se with SMTP; 7 Jun 1999 23:32:04 +0200
From: Anders Andersson
To: The CSound mailinglist
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:32:21 +0200
Message-ID:
X-Mailer: YAM 2.0Preview7 [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck - http://www.yam.ch
Subject: Precision vs Implementation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
A very important question is:
Is it POSSIBLE to change all the floats to doubles??
Who is going to do this?
Vote: Double as default/Only alternative.
maybe floats as compile-time directive.
I use CSound for realtime about 1% of the time I use CSound.
// Anders
A very nice thing with CSound is that you can create sounds that utilize the
whole
audible spectrum in 192kHz.. =)
If we only would change the resolution to doubles too.. =)
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09469;
7 Jun 99 23:16 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r7gn-0003x5-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:16:17 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA18505); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:13:48 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:13:37 +0100
Received: from ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA17981); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:13:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bigfoot.com (p235-249.atnt2.dialup.ftw1.flash.net [209.30.235.249])
by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29382;
Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:13:27 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <375C4476.6BE32364@bigfoot.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:15:18 -0500
From: pete moss
Organization: pete moss GmbH
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Anders Andersson
CC: The CSound mailinglist
Subject: Re: Precision vs Implementation
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
i agree that we need to know about implementation. i havent heard jpff
comment on this. i wonder what he thinks about this issue?
also, i would go for doubles across the board if someone had hard
evidence of the performance increase or decrease of doubles vs singles.
several people have mentioned that some cpus operate on doubles better
than singles. it would be nice to see soem numbers to reinforce this
notion.
while i dont use csound for realtime very much at the present time, i do
appreciate the ability to spend not so much time on synthesis so that i
can listen while i work.
pete
Anders Andersson wrote:
>
> A very important question is:
>
> Is it POSSIBLE to change all the floats to doubles??
>
> Who is going to do this?
>
> Vote: Double as default/Only alternative.
> maybe floats as compile-time directive.
>
> I use CSound for realtime about 1% of the time I use CSound.
>
> // Anders
>
> A very nice thing with CSound is that you can create sounds that utilize the
> whole
> audible spectrum in 192kHz.. =)
>
> If we only would change the resolution to doubles too.. =)
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09479;
7 Jun 99 23:19 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r7ji-0002sv-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:19:18 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA18420); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:17:00 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:16:48 +0100
Received: from adsl-209-78-185-158.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [209.78.185.158] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA17894); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:16:46 +0100 (BST)
Received: from screech.weirdnoise.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by screech.weirdnoise.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12557
for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:17:38 -0700
Message-Id: <199906072217.PAA12557@screech.weirdnoise.com>
X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2
To: Csound
Subject: Re: Precision vs Implementation
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:32:21 +0200."
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 15:17:38 -0700
From: Ed Hall
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Anders Andersson wrote:
> A very important question is:
>
> Is it POSSIBLE to change all the floats to doubles??
Yes, it's almost just a global change of "float" to "double". There are
a few cases where it is assumed that the internal sample size is 4 bytes,
mostly in the orchestra-loading code. And there are cases where it is
assumed that a sample is sizeof(long) and/or sizeof(void*). So it isn't
trivial, but it wouldn't take long for someone familiar with the code.
These are all areas I had to go over to get Csound working on 64-bit CPU's.
> Who is going to do this?
Not me; I'd much rather see a more targeted approach which can use 32-bit
floats for tables, delays, and so on, and 64-bit doubles for calculations.
I won't have time to even look at this until Fall, but I might well wind
up doing it if someone else doesn't.
-Ed
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09515;
7 Jun 99 23:28 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10r7sZ-0002t6-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:28:27 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA00637); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:26:10 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:25:59 +0100
Received: from usamail.texasonline.net [208.207.16.31] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA01269); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:25:58 +0100 (BST)
Received: from nmol.com (unverified [208.221.109.19]) by usamail.texasonline.net
(Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.179) with ESMTP id for ;
Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:27:04 -0500
Message-ID: <375C46D1.FE17F605@nmol.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:25:23 -0600
From: Mike Berry
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: The CSound mailinglist
Subject: Re: Precision vs Implementation
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
In the float/double question, everybody is making it a real-time vs.
file-time comparison, which I don't think is totally fair. CSound,
however you use it now, was designed as a file-time program. In order
for it to be a "real-time" program there are a lot of speed
optimizations possible, some worthwhile (like RTSound) and some
impossibly unworthwhile (like making it run inside a Mac interrupt for
good Mac realtime performance). The crux of my point is that csound is
a file-time sound generator, which now can be used in real-time for some
things. Any improvements should be judged first on whether they improve
file generation (e.g. sound quality) and then on how they impact compile
times. As has been mentioned before, the speed loss from doubles will
likely never be more than 5% and in some case will actually be faster
than floats.
I'd say it is more worthwhile to worry about RAM issues than speed
issues when considering this switch, since doubles will basically double
the RAM requirements. This may mean that the analysis programs should
be left as floats (since the analysis files are floats, this is
pratically a requirement). But I just don't see a major downside to
doubles, except for the time it will take to do the conversion of the
source code.
--
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10055;
8 Jun 99 4:12 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rCJK-00044J-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 04:12:22 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA13521); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 04:10:14 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 04:10:03 +0100
Received: from icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA02684); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 04:10:02 +0100 (BST)
Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70])
by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04345
for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:10:03 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from idirect.com (ts7-69t-2.idirect.com [209.161.249.49])
by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06346
for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:09:57 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <375C8A38.3A24FF08@idirect.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 23:12:56 -0400
From: Stan Olejarz
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "csound@maths.ex.ac.uk"
Subject: csound with powerbook
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7D94BBD66E28BF7D7300D797"
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------7D94BBD66E28BF7D7300D797
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Does anyone know what the system requirements are to run csound on a
powerbook.I've been told that the older Powerbooks like the 1400 and the
3400 can't do the number crunchig required to render a score and
orchestra file.Any insight will be helpfull
Thanks
Stan Olejarz Toronto, Ontario
--------------7D94BBD66E28BF7D7300D797
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Return-Path:
Received: from exeter.ac.uk (hermes.ex.ac.uk [144.173.6.14])
by deimos.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA45478
for ; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:04:25 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA04455); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:04:15 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:01:15 +0100
Received: from mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA03912); Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:01:14 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [204.143.224.20] ([204.143.224.13]) by mail.infohouse.com
(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35)
with ESMTP id com; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:09:10 -0400
X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To:
References: <199906071331.JAA01858@renoir.op.net> "Your message of Sun, 06
Jun 1999 18:16:34 EDT."
<001001beb06a$3da380a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:04:28 +0100
To:
From: tolve
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precis[s]ion in Csound
Cc: Erik Spjut
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Erik Spjut wrote
>
>I would personally like to see the default for Csound to be doubles, so
>that beginners (and I) have less rope upon which to hang themselves.
don't understand any of this thread but less rope sounds good unless i'm
trying to climb out my apartment window (the fire trucks were across the
street again today -i don't know why the phone company building is always
on fire.)
>Perhaps we could take a poll
yes
>see what fraction of the user base depends on realtime
if this is what it comes down to: no realtime here. doubles please.
don't want to step on other users though. is a realtime version of csound
otherwise available on all platforms? (i would think many of the realtimers
would already be using the versions optimized for realtime and therefore
have no reason to object to doubles)
tolve
>If it's less than half then the default would be doubles, and
>the realtime people could be directed to the most excellent RTsound. If
>it's more than half, then floats it is, and perhaps some gracious person
>could help us poor souls who need or prefer doubles to get a decent
>compiled version.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Prof. R. Erik Spjut (spyoot rhymes with cute)
>Engineering Department, Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
>erik_spjut@hmc.edu Ph. (909) 607-3890 Fax (909) 621-8967
--------------7D94BBD66E28BF7D7300D797--
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10305;
8 Jun 99 6:59 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rEuk-00035J-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:59:10 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (GAA17990); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:54:30 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:54:17 +0100
Received: from web115.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.88] by hermes via SMTP (GAA18052); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:54:15 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <19990608055826.22509.rocketmail@web115.yahoomail.com>
Received: from [132.206.141.201] by web115.yahoomail.com; Mon, 07 Jun 1999 22:58:26 PDT
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:58:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: MiS
Subject: Re: csound with powerbook
To: Stan Olejarz ,
"csound@maths.ex.ac.uk"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
--- Stan Olejarz wrote:
> Does anyone know what the system requirements are to run csound on a
> powerbook.I've been told that the older Powerbooks like the 1400 and
> the
> 3400 can't do the number crunchig required to render a score and
> orchestra file.Any insight will be helpfull
>
Apparently CSound runs on all macs (including the really older ones
like 680x0 models). The two PBooks are PPC(603e???) so they're most
likely better than my 7200 desktop. I can't complain about CSound on
my machine just that I have to go for a cofee often while csound is
doing its thing.
Forget about doing complex DSP in real-time though...
Michal
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10482;
8 Jun 99 8:58 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rGmS-0004Bv-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:58:44 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA14489); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:56:27 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:56:13 +0100
Received: from mailhub.unibe.ch [130.92.254.109] by hermes via ESMTP (IAA07161); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:56:12 +0100 (BST)
Received: from iamexwi.unibe.ch (haegar.unibe.ch [130.92.71.10])
by mailhub.unibe.ch (PMDF V5.2-29 #33079)
with ESMTP id <0FD000E5Y0O8MR@mailhub.unibe.ch> for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk;
Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:55:20 +0200 (MET DST)
Received: from klee.iamexwi.unibe.ch (klee [130.92.63.36])
by iamexwi.unibe.ch (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA25356 for
; Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:55:40 +0200 (MET DST)
Received: by klee.iamexwi.unibe.ch (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id JAA24515; Tue,
08 Jun 1999 09:55:31 +0200 (MET DST)
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:55:31 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Thomas Huber
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precis[s]ion in Csound
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-id: <199906080755.JAA24515@klee.iamexwi.unibe.ch>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
> don't want to step on other users though. is a realtime version of csound
> otherwise available on all platforms? (i would think many of the realtimers
> would already be using the versions optimized for realtime and therefore
> have no reason to object to doubles)
Please make it either a compile time option or a command line argument,
as I need csound for both realtime and non-realtime, and I use it on linux
where no special realtime version is available (it's not needed, as the
canonical version is realtime enough on linux...)
Thomas
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10623;
8 Jun 99 10:24 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rI7X-00038z-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:24:35 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA04907); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:22:15 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:22:01 +0100
Received: from lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.15] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA01916); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:21:55 +0100 (BST)
Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (p2054.net10.usyd.edu.au [10.0.8.6])
by lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20231;
Tue, 8 Jun 1999 19:21:30 +1000 (EST)
Message-ID: <375CE003.DF17B51D@mail.usyd.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 19:19:02 +1000
From: Bob Douglas
Reply-To: rdouglas@mail.usyd.edu.au
Organization: Sydney Conservatorium
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: MiS , CSound list
Subject: Re: Csound and PCI slots
References: <19990608055826.22509.rocketmail@web115.yahoomail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
MiS wrote:
> ....
> The two PBooks are PPC(603e???) so they're most
> likely better than my 7200 desktop. I can't complain about CSound on
> my machine just that I have to go for a cofee often while csound is
> doing its thing.
> ....
Likewise, I know how you feel.
Can anyone recommend a soundcard/accelerator/small nuclear device/etc - to
plug into one of the PCI slots on my PowerMac 7200/90 desktop, so that my
Csound audition-cycle times get shorter (...and ergo, my coffee intake decreases)
Thanks in advance for any help.
Bob Douglas
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10654;
8 Jun 99 10:48 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rIV4-0004Gs-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:48:54 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA10031); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:46:37 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:46:23 +0100
Received: from mail.infohouse.com [204.143.176.4] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA09392); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:46:22 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [204.143.224.92] by mail.infohouse.com
(Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 141-59479U3500L350S0V35)
with ESMTP id com; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 05:54:31 -0400
X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <375CE003.DF17B51D@mail.usyd.edu.au>
References: <19990608055826.22509.rocketmail@web115.yahoomail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 05:49:46 +0100
To: rdouglas@mail.usyd.edu.au
From: tolve
Subject: Re: Csound and PCI slots
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
for mac, processor upgrade cards by Newer Technology were much heralded on
the motu list (haven't subscribed in a while) -don't remember any problems
with motu's music aps. not a clue as to its performance with csound. tech
support was reportedly quite good.
tolve
Bob Douglas wrote
>Can anyone recommend a soundcard/accelerator/small nuclear device/etc - to
>plug into one of the PCI slots on my PowerMac 7200/90 desktop, so that my
>Csound audition-cycle times get shorter (...and ergo, my coffee intake
>decreases)
>
>Thanks in advance for any help.
>
>Bob Douglas
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10978;
8 Jun 99 12:40 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rKEa-0004Nl-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:40:00 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA15392); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:36:01 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:35:47 +0100
Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA15518); Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:35:47 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [138.38.99.25] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10rKAQ-0004Mr-00
for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:35:42 +0100
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 99 12:35:41 BST
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Higher numerical precission in Csound
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-Id:
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Message written at 8 Jun 1999 08:21:36 +0100
I have just seen all this mail about use of double precision. It
seems like a small experiment is in order with the main sources. I
will look at it when the marking has finished, but I am basically out
of things for at least another week.
I think a little minor massage would allow Csoudn to be built either
32 or 64 bit floats (assuming the machine supports that). Perry Cook
did something like this for his physical modelling code.......ho
hum.... and I still want to do the binary score.srt file to gain
precision.
==John ffitch |