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More tutorials

Date1998-05-25 21:06
FromDrew Skyfyre
SubjectMore tutorials
Anyone looking for more enlightening Csound tutorials head over to


There's even a good general FM tutorial by Barry Truax.

-Drew



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Subject: Csound and real-time
Date: Mon, 25 May 98 20:06:40 +0000
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From: Drew Skyfyre 
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Just curious why,when MSP can painlessly run real-time FM 
synthesis,Csound,given the same task,
sounds like a bleating goat proccessed through a broken 8-bit sampler.Has 
David Zicarelli discovered 
the Philosopher's Stone or something ?

I know we've had a loooong discussion about real-time Csound before,but 
if MSP can......

-Drew



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From: Mike Berry 
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To: Drew Skyfyre , 
    Contribute 
Subject: Re: Csound and real-time
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The issue (since I know that you are using a Mac) is the basic structure of
CSound.  In order to run low latency high speed audio on the Mac, you need to
run at interrupt level, which precludes making any system memory allocation
calls.  CSound is set up to allocate its memory dynamically as new instruments
are instantiated.  This will not fly on the Mac, unless these calls are
buffered by a second memory manager which has already preallocated all of the
necessary memory.  I contemplated this, thought better of it, and wrote
GrainWave instead.  But it remains out there that some one could do this.  You
would also have to intercept all of the printing to the screen.
	The other performance issue would be that the sound interrupt should cause
csound to make a buffer when it needs one, instead of vice versa.  This would
not increase the speed, but it would decrease the latency.
-- 
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb





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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Contribute 
Subject: Re: More tutorials
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:34:41 -0500
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Hi,

All these excellent tutorials seem like cheating...what about all of us who
had to learn everything the hard way?  I think the newbies are going to go
soft.  :)

Bye,
Hans Mikelson





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From: Paul Winkler 
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Subject: question for Mac csounders
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Never having seen the PPC version of csound, I would like to ask: does 
it support the -L command argument (to read line events from a device, 
e.g. keyboard input)? I can't think of how you'd do something like that 
on a Mac, but I'm not a Mac guy, and it would please me greatly if it is 
possible.

The reason I wonder: I've just tested the -L flag on linux csound 3.48 
with a dumb little Tk script (call it "boink") that writes a csound 
score event to standard output when a button is pushed. The results are 
heard instantaneously. Works for me but I would love to be able to 
eventually give my tklets away to my many mac-using friends.

This was inspired by Peter Neubacker's recent message about line events, 
a method of csound control that had never occurred to me. I see great 
possibilities for wonderful and strange realtime csound control applets 
here; for instance it occurs to me that maybe Cecilia does some of its 
work this way. In unix it's simple to pipe the event to csound in 
realtime:

boink | csound -L stdin -o devaudio orcfile scofile

...where "boink" is any app in any language that writes text to standard 
output, and where the orc & sco are set up to keep running for some 
length of time awaiting input...

I don't think "standard output" has any meaning on the Mac; so what 
would you use as the "device" for -L, assuming this flag is even 
available?  Or is there any other way to get similar results?

Regards,

PW

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From: Burton Alexandre 
Subject: Re: question for Mac csounders
To: Paul Winkler 
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On Mon, 25 May 1998, Paul Winkler wrote:

> Never having seen the PPC version of csound, I would like to ask: does 
> it support the -L command argument (to read line events from a device, 
> e.g. keyboard input)? I can't think of how you'd do something like that 
> on a Mac, but I'm not a Mac guy, and it would please me greatly if it is 
> possible.

 As you note, pipes are not really a Mac concept, so the -L flag is of
little use on MacOS. The Mac way to do interapplication stuff is with
AppleEvents, so the logical thing would be to make the PPC Csound aware of an
event that would get channelized in the "-L" code. 

 However, something else creeps in: multitasking. The MacOS has
cooperative multitasking, and the way Csound is written for the mac is
really not cooperative, so it's performance is sluggish if not in the
foreground. That poses some problems if you want to use another
application that drives Csound... (you can try it with the IAC bus and a
MIDI app, for instance Max). As Mike Berry said earlier today it would be
possible to re-write the thing cleanly, but it's not a trivial project. 

 So right now Mac users are out of luck if they want realtime control 
from another app running on the same machine.


						Alex Burton.



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Drat. Well, thanks for the answers, Jean and Alex. Maybe I'll just have 
to convince my friends to install MkLinux. :)

>On Mon, 25 May 1998, Paul Winkler wrote:
>
>> Never having seen the PPC version of csound, I would like to ask: 
does 
>> it support the -L command argument (to read line events from a 
device, 
>> e.g. keyboard input)? (SNIP)
> As you note, pipes are not really a Mac concept, so the -L flag is of
>little use on MacOS. (SNIP)

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Drat. Well, thanks for the answers, Jean and Alex. Maybe I'll just have 
to convince my friends to install MkLinux. :)

>On Mon, 25 May 1998, Paul Winkler wrote:
>
>> Never having seen the PPC version of csound, I would like to ask: 
does 
>> it support the -L command argument (to read line events from a 
device, 
>> e.g. keyboard input)? (SNIP)
> As you note, pipes are not really a Mac concept, so the -L flag is of
>little use on MacOS. (SNIP)

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Subject: Re:Re: More tutorials
Date: Tue, 26 May 98 15:52:49 +0000
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From: Drew Skyfyre 
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>All these excellent tutorials seem like cheating...what about all of us who
>had to learn everything the hard way?  I think the newbies are going to go
>soft.  :)

Aw shucks, Hans, anything that can get us newbies writing Csound orcs 
like you do, ASAP, is 
just dandy with me. Speaking of which,all you Csounders be sure to check 
out Hans Mikelson's
home page and study all the very cool Csound stuff there.Once again not 
sure of the URL ,try  and do a search for "Csound Hans 
Mikelson".Loads of stuff will appear like magic.Ah,the glorious 
infobahn.Oh,and when you see what Hans does for a living  (and where he 
does it),be afraid.I only hope those of us with slightly less :-) grey 
cell horse power can still write decent Csound stuff.

Not to worry about copyright ,Mikelson.Soon as they hand me that fat 
contract to make electronic  microtonal dance music albums suitable for 
playing loud at very cool European resort town discos ful of beautiful 
people, I'll get back to you.You know,given all the weird and wonderful 
stuff scientists have been pulling off lately,flying pigs may not be that 
far off.

Regards,
Drew