| What more Cecilia gives compared to the normal CSound front-end?
Is it interesting to use?
--
Jean-Michel DARREMONT
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From: "Ruston, Paul"
To: "'csound@noether.ex.ac.uk'"
Subject: RE: re_books
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:54:46 -0400
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Can anyone recommend one of the previously suggested books over the
others:
I found a copy of The Computer Music Tutorial by Roads for about $54.00
u.s. ($76 canadian - scary exchange rate, eh?) or I can order Computer
Music: Synthesis, Composition and Performance by Dodge, Charles, etc.
for $42 u.s. and the same book store can order Elements of Computer
Music by Moore for $65 u.s.. This last book, which seems to be in high
demand is listed on the stores computer as being in print but apparently
this does not guarentee that it actually is - trying to order it is the
only way to verify for sure.
I'm hesitant to pick up The Computer Music Tutorial as it consciously
minimizes the mathematical content for mathematically challenged
musicians like myself, but I'm working to improve my math skills and
don't want to be frustrated later by incomplete models and
explainations, etc.
Any opinions? If I do confirm that Elements... is indeed in print, I'll
be certain to notify you all. The book store I'm dealing with is
'Chapters' in Toronto, Canada for anyone concerned.
Thanks, Paul Ruston
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pete moss [SMTP:kaeru@flash.net]
>Sent: June 23, 1998 3:58 PM
>To: herremar@pilot.msu.edu
>Cc: csound@noether.ex.ac.uk
>Subject: Re: re_books
>
>i would bet that ucsd has this book available, as moore is dean of music
>there
>or something.
>
>pete
>
>
>
>herremar@pilot.msu.edu wrote:
>
>> >Moore's book (Elements of Computer Music, see previous mail) seems to
>> >be out of print. I'm trying myself to find a copy for our library.
>> >Perhaps we should start nagging Prentice Hall for a reprint?
>>
>> it was the bookstore at either uc san diego or at stanford that told me
>> they had this in stock. my local retailers have given me the impression
>> that they could order it. i'm hesitating only because soft cover is
>>$64.00.
>>
>> rh
>>
>> Ron Herrema
>> http://pilot.msu.edu/user/herremar/
>>
>> Here's to the was you been,
>> to the is you in,
>> to what's deep in deep,
>> to what's down in down,
>> to the lost and the blind
>> and the almost found.
>>
>> - Sekou Sundiata, The Blue Oneness of Dreams
>
>
>
>
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From: tolve
Subject: Re: Cecilia won't open some orc/sco
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in precise mathematical terms, depending on what you are doing, cecilia can
accelerate your work by a factor of 10 billion. among her capabilities:
select a parameter, assign it to the grapher, and click away to set values.
tolve
>What more Cecilia gives compared to the normal CSound front-end?
>Is it interesting to use?
>
>--
>Jean-Michel DARREMONT
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:11:37 -0500
To: David Schuyeteneer , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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From: tolve
Subject: Re: [??theory] ambient music, harmony
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if i understand you, the following from the manual may be helpful. try
controlling envelope of each harmonic (sinusoid) independently -one method
is to create many instruments, all with the same fundamental pitch, each
containing only one harmonic. but you may not find this interesting enough,
in which case you could add other tones to taste simply by creating an
instrument with a different fundamental.
GEN09, GEN10, GEN19
"These subroutines generate composite waveforms made up of weighted sums of
simple sinusoids. The specification of each contributing partial
requires 3 pfields using GEN09, 1 using GEN10, and 4 using GEN19."
tolve
>Since I don't have a visacard to order those wonderful books on
>computermusic over the net, I wonder if someone of you know some basic
>methods to calculate harmonic freqs from a given freq....Assume I have
>a sound with most emphasized freq is a 440Hz....Ok. Now I want to add
>some other sound, how can i alter the sound's main pitch so that it
>sounds harmonic with the previous sound ???
>
>Most of my Csound time goes to constructing dronal, rich layered,slow
>ambient. A *HUGE* problem is that mostly my sounds are extremely
>overlapping, with (besides also in amplitude) slow changes in frequency,
>causing very annoying 'false'tones sometimes due to the pitch changes..
>
>I HAVE to find a way that I can tell Csound to take care that my
>overlapping sounds never sound false...How ???
>
>
>
>
>David.
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From: Reid Sweatman
To: CSound List , hljmm@werewolf.net
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Subject: RE: Problem Compiling Csound with MS Visual C++ 5.0 Learning Ed.
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:20:54 -0700
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> I'm trying to learn some MS Windows programming and to start to
> start with I
> thought I would try to compile Csound (I also want to implement some new
> opcodes). The program first wanted to create a new project file which
> seemed to go OK. Then it had trouble finding things until I
> moved the files
> up to d:\csound\. Now it compiles OK but when it is time to link
> I get the
> following error:
>
> Linking...
> LINK : fatal error LNK1104: cannot open file "nafxcw.lib"
> Error executing link.exe.
>
> When I search for this in help the help file it says:
>
> Object-code libraries for MFC use the following naming conventions. The
> library names have the form
> uAFXcWd.LIB
> where the letters shown in italic lowercase are placeholders for
> specifiers
> whose meanings are shown in the table Library Naming Conventions below:
> etc...
> NAFXCW.LIB
> Release version
>
> Note If you need to build a library version, see the Readme.Txt
> file in the
> \MFC\Src directory. This file describes using the supplied makefile with
> NMake.
>
> Searching the CD for this file I find:
>
> To build a library in a particular configuration, use the NMAKE tool
> and the makefile which is in this directory. The following arguments
> can be given to NMAKE to successfully build a specific library variant.
> NMAKE {DEBUG=[0|1]} {BROWSE=[0|1]} {BROWSEONLY={0|1} \
> {CODEVIEW=[0|1|2]} {OBJ=path} \
> {PLATFORM=INTEL|ALPHA|MIPS|PPC|M68K|MPPC} \
> {UNICODE=[0|1]} \
> {OPT=}
> Previous versions of MFC supported MODEL and TARGET options to control the
> memory model and to support DOS/CONSOLE mode targetting. These options are
> no longer supported (your Win32 console application can still be linked to
> the GUI MFC library, NAFXCW[D].LIB).
>
> Now there doesn't seem to be any makefile in this directory.
First of all, it sounds like you've let the app wizard default to its
default build type, which is to build a MFC app. You probably don't want to
do that, since (as I recall from the last time I looked at CSound's code,
admittedly a couple of years ago ), CSound is what Windows considers a
"console" application. So go back into the app wizard and generate a new
project, making sure to select that type of project. Second, you may have
to go into the project settings dialog after you've done that and add a
couple of new paths, to make sure the compiler can find everything. The key
thing is to make sure you actually tell the project that its files are where
you really put them when you first created the project. (That dialog in the
app wizard can be a bit misleading, because it tends to insert one extra
directory level that you didn't expect when it creates things; experiment
with it in a dummy directory to see exactly what it's going to do).
Finally, I don't think you'll get that error message about NAFXCWx.LIB if
you do all that (the key point to note is that the "AFX" buried in the
filename means that the lib is associated with the application class in the
MFC library. You probably don't want to mess with that, as it would mean
doing a complete port to the Windows environment, a messy job, unless you're
already an accomplished Windows and MFC programmer.) Hope this helps.
Reid Sweatman
Programmer/Audio Engineer
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From: Reid Sweatman
To: CSound List , davids@pavell.com
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Subject: RE: [??theory] ambient music, harmony
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:20:43 -0700
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> Since I don't have a visacard to order those wonderful books on
> computermusic over the net, I wonder if someone of you know some basic
> methods to calculate harmonic freqs from a given freq....Assume I have
> a sound with most emphasized freq is a 440Hz....Ok. Now I want to add
> some other sound, how can i alter the sound's main pitch so that it
> sounds harmonic with the previous sound ???
Well, the "harmonic frequencies" of a given fundamental frequency (the
lowest frequency in the sound) are simply the integer multiples of the
fundamental (times 2, times 3, and so on...). If your sounds are simple
sine waves, sticking to harmonics will *tend* to keep things from grating.
Even in that simple case, though, what you have to recognize is that when
you start to stack up sine waves, in effect you're creating chords. (This
is actually what Ravel was trying to do in "Bolero," albeit with already
complex tones.) As you start to layer notes with different (probably
non-harmonically-related fundamentals) and associated sequences of harmonic
overtones, it's almost guaranteed that some overtones in one note (here note
= fundamental + overtones) will beat against those in another note. Add to
this the fact that in real-world instruments much of the richness of the
timbre comes from the fact that the overtones have individual volume
envelopes and are out-of-phase with each other, and your task becomes
well-nigh impossible, at least as you've stated it. On the other hand, it
seems to me you're sort of micturating in the direction of the prevailing
atmospheric flow (to put it gently ). Were you actually able to
eliminate all the beating and heterodyning, you'd probably end up with a
pretty flat, banal sound, not the rich layering you describe in your next
paragraph.
> Most of my Csound time goes to constructing dronal, rich layered,slow
> ambient. A *HUGE* problem is that mostly my sounds are extremely
> overlapping, with (besides also in amplitude) slow changes in frequency,
> causing very annoying 'false'tones sometimes due to the pitch changes..
>
> I HAVE to find a way that I can tell Csound to take care that my
> overlapping sounds never sound false...How ???
Not doable. However, by sticking close to the frequency ratios that define
the major/minor/perfect intervals in the scale, you'll achieve a passable
approximation. Of course, it won't be perfect, both for the reasons I
mentioned above, and because most western scales, including the
well-tempered, don't actually exactly fit the harmonic overtone series.
(That's why the well-tempered scale took some time to gain acceptance: it's
a compromise that allows easy modulation between keys. Scales like the
just-tuned scale sound better in their home key, because they stick closer
to the overtone series, but they sound a bit strained when you need to do
something like modulate to a "related" key, do a temporary harmonization, or
play polychordal harmonies.)
In addition, the frequency ratios of the major/minor/perfect intervals don't
lie in the overtone series themselves. If you think about it, the first
harmonic is an octave above the fundamental. The second is a fifth above
that, and so on. The interval ratios are arrived at by dropping the upper
harmonics by one or more octaves as necessary to bring them within the ambit
of the octave. That's why chords in thirds or even fourths sound much
denser than the same notes played in "open" voicings. Increased beating due
to non-harmonicity. Those ratios are *related* but not exactly the same
thing as the true harmonics.
On the other hand, you shouldn't look at this as a drawback. I recall one
story my college physics professor told about the Hammond B-3. As you may
or may not know, the Hammond generates its overtone series by spinning
notched metal disks in front of electronic pickups, with the frequency
generated being determined by the number and spacing of the notches and the
speed of rotation. For many years people were at a loss to explain exactly
why the Hammond sounded so rich, especially when compared to the rather
cheesy sound of early "electronic" organs (remember the VOX, the darling of
the early American rock bands? Got a copy of "Inna-Gadda-Da-Vida" around?
) It turns out that they determined the necessary overtone frequencies
according to an incorrect acoustic theory (and partly because the mechanical
generator imposed certain constraints). Remember, this was sometime in the
twenties or thirties (not sure which). They were trying to get things
exactly harmonic, just as you are. They didn't get it right. Fortunately
for them . It's exactly the harmonic inaccuracies and the beating they
cause that make the Hammond sound so rich.
On a related tack, let me recommend two books you'll find very useful in
regard to questions of this sort (I could recommend *lots* more , but
these two are pretty well indispensable). First, "The Master Handbook of
Acoustics," 3rd ed. by F. Alton Everest, ISBN 0-8306-4437-7. Second, the
Yamaha "Sound Reinforcement Handbook," by Gary Davis and Ralph Jones, ISBN
0-88188-900-8. They should be easy to come by (I found both at the local
Barnes & Noble), and are around $35 each. Hope this helps.
Reid Sweatman
Programmer/Audio Engineer
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From: Matti Koskinen
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: clicks in soundin
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:36:36 +0300
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hello all
i made some recordings and then put them up combining and processing them
with csound, but in almost all cases, there's a
big audible click in the output wav-file when the part read by soundin
ends. I cleaned with sound editor all the samples from the end, used
envelope in csound to force the output to zero, but still the output suffers
from clicks. There's been discussion on this list, but i can't
recall now, what measures to take. With sound editor these clicks can be
removed, but it's a tedious job, when there are many clips and as many
clicks. The clicks are almost every time positive-going clicks and they come
equally to both channels.
And another problem. Using #include with winsound crashes it. First
comes "memory allocate error 0" then winsound doesn't response. Dos- and
Linux-versions work ok. (3.482)
Where's poscil? Manuals says it's from v. 3.47 included.
thanks
-matti
mjkoskin@sci.fi
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From: "Ruston, Paul"
To: 'Csound group'
Subject: Cecilia for Win 95
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:51:08 -0400
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Does anyone know of a windows (95) version of Cecilia?
Thanks, P Ruston
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:23:34 +0000
From: Carlton Wilkinson
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Subject: Intractable problem
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Miss me?
Can anyone tell me, please, why this file compiles properly when I take
out the butterlp line, but returns c. 40000 samples out of range per
channel per note with close to 0 output when the butterlp line is
included?
I've streamlined this and tested what you see here and get consistent
results. The soundfile is a simple brake rotor being struck with the
flat of a hammer--a sound very rich in high partials, hence the need for
a butterlp. (For those of you who are already thinking "why doesn't he
compile the file first and filter it later?" The answer is: aliasing
produces clicks in midrange--can't filter the clicks without losing part
of the body of the sound. I know. I've tried.) The sndwarp opcode is
complicated, but I can't see how it and the butterlp are so related as
to produce such results. I'm in over my head.
The high number of overlaps and the small window here are a necessary
element, giving the sound a slightly raunchier attack. And it works
perfectly without the butterlp . . .? What the hell?
--
Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm
;-----------------
;orc
;------------------
sr = 44100
kr = 44100
ksmps = 1
nchnls = 2
instr 3
;sndwarp parameters
kamp linen p4, .01, p3, .01
itimewarp = p9
iresample = p5 ;2 = octave above
ifn1 = 3
ibeg = 0
iwsize = int(sr/10)
irandw = iwsize*.2
ioverlap = 40
ifn2 = 4
itimemode = 0
a1 sndwarp kamp, itimewarp, iresample, ifn1, ibeg, iwsize, irandw,
ioverlap, ifn2, itimemode
a1 butterlp a1, 14000
outs a1, a1
endin
;-----------------
;sco
;-----------------
f1 0 4 2 .1 .82 .82 .1 ; this orc and sco are intended to time
stretch brakerotor2.snd
f2 0 4 2 .82 .1 .1 .82 ; for use in a granular texture, the third
large section of black magic
f3 0 524288 -1 "brakerotor2.aiff" 0 4 0
f4 0 16384 9 .5 1 0
; p4 amp
; p5 transposition 2nd 1.125, M3rd 1.25, P5th 1.5
; p6 passes between speakers
; p7 phase offset (speaker balance)
; p8 rvrbgain
; p9 timewarp
a0 0 8
i3 8 4 .7 5.625 1 .5 .05 .3
i3 9 2 .6 10 .5 1 .05 .2
i3 12.5 2 .6 7.5 2 .25 .05 .2
i3 14.5 4 .6 6.25 1.25 0 .05 .3
i3 15.5 2 .6 5.625 1 .5 .05 .2
i3 16 4 .7 6.25 .35 .75 .05 .3
i3 17 5 .7 7.5 .5 1 .05 .4
i3 18 2 .7 10 .1 0 .05 .2
i3 19.525 4 .7 5 .75 .5 .05 .3
i3 23.5 4 .6 7.5 .1 1 .05 .3
i3 24.5 4 .6 6.25 1 .5 .05 .3
e
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From: jp
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To: "Ruston, Paul" , csound
Subject: Re: Cecilia for Win 95
References: <98Jun26.145706edt.20613@fw.osler.com>
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> Does anyone know of a windows (95) version of Cecilia?
No. NOt as we speak... but we're thinking....
--
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: Csound Mailing List
Subject: Re: DSP Filter book
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:46:12 -0500
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Hi,
Robin Whittle wrote:
>I need to learn more about calculus before I start to read this
>seriously. I have attempted to get by without this mathematical
>knowledge, and while it can be done with certain Finite Impulse
>Response filters, maths is a crucial part of understanding IIR
>filtering and probably a lot of FIR too.
I don't think Calculus is absolutely required for digital filter theory. If
you know the equations for the frequency response you can get by with
algebra. It would also help to understand some complex variable theory for
doing the Z-transform.
Good luck,
Hans Mikelson
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From: Hans Mikelson
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork
Subject: Re: [??theory] ambient music, harmony
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:00:11 -0500
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Hi,
Maybe this will help:
http://www.olga.net/resources/chord_docs/chord_formation.txt
also try the OLGA web site for more guitar oriented music theory.
Bye,
Hans Mikelson
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:57:04 -0400
From: jp
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To: Edward Spiegel , csound ,
"cecilia@ginette.musique.umontreal.ca"
Subject: Re: Cecilia won't open some orc/sco
References: <199806252249.PAA23973@mail1.sirius.com>
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Edward Spiegel wrote:
>
> In my attempt to learn CSound, I have been trying to download and as many
> scores and orcs as possible to get a better sense of how people do things.
>
> I have mostly been using Cecilia 2.0 as my front-end to CSound (on a
> powermac 9600). Some orcs (and they do have matching scores), don't
> become opened/imported when I open them (using the Open menu item in the
> File menu). Note that I don't get any error message, they simply don't
> appear in the window that usually displays the orc and sco.
The reason the files are not being imported is because the orchestras do not
have a "nchnls" variable in the orchestra header. This is perfectly legal and
when this variable is absent Csound defaults the number of channels to 1.
However, Cecilia needs this variable in order to load the orchestra in the
correct editor pane. When it is absemt , Cecilai should assign it to "1" and
carry on from there. THis is therefor a bug, and its a bug I did'nt know about.
Thanks!
--
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/
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From: Paul Winkler
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, davids@pavell.com, Reid.Sweatman@m.cc.utah.edu
Subject: RE: [??theory] ambient music, harmony
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As long as we're bringing up books on basic psychoacoustic (= perception
of sound) theory, I can't help recommending "The Science of Musical
Sound" by John R. Pierce (pub: Scientific American Library, ISBN:
0-7167-1508-2). This gives an extremely clear introduction to a lot of
useful topics for computer music, including some of the questions in
this thread. Some topics in the T.O.C: pitch, periodicity, resonance,
scales, beating, consonance, Rameau's theories of harmony, loudness,
masking, architectural acoustics, soud reproduction, analysis &
synthesis, sonic illusions...
BTW, Reid, thanks for the cool info on the Hammond!
Check your library, or buy it if it's still in print.
--PW
>From: "Reid Sweatman"
>To: "CSound List" ,
>Subject: RE: [??theory] ambient music, harmony
>Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:20:43 -0700
>
>> Since I don't have a visacard to order those wonderful books on
>> computermusic over the net, I wonder if someone of you know some
basic
>> methods to calculate harmonic freqs from a given freq....Assume I
have
>> a sound with most emphasized freq is a 440Hz....Ok. Now I want to add
>> some other sound, how can i alter the sound's main pitch so that it
>> sounds harmonic with the previous sound ???
>
(snip)
>On a related tack, let me recommend two books you'll find very useful
in
>regard to questions of this sort (I could recommend *lots* more ,
but
>these two are pretty well indispensable). First, "The Master Handbook
of
>Acoustics," 3rd ed. by F. Alton Everest, ISBN 0-8306-4437-7. Second,
the
>Yamaha "Sound Reinforcement Handbook," by Gary Davis and Ralph Jones,
ISBN
>0-88188-900-8. They should be easy to come by (I found both at the
local
>Barnes & Noble), and are around $35 each. Hope this helps.
>
>Reid Sweatman
>Programmer/Audio Engineer
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
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From: Charles Baker
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Subject: theory & ambient drones (ha)
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David:
I have to endorse the recomendation to use ..uh...'less than perfectly
harmonic' sounds when investigating tuning/wave interactions....pure
waves will not only audibly and often annoyingly 'beat', but 'subsonic'
beat/interference can produce some wildly varying amplitudes, as large
amounts of the signal energy in the two signals cancel or reinforce
each other. And instead of a lovely complex interaction of sound, one
gets wildly varying, sometimes nice, but often unlistenable results.
Probably not what you're looking for.But take heart! There are several
simple solutions.
In addition to having a somewhat "noisy" or inharmonic basic waveform,
one can also
1)play 2 or 3 copies of the same signal separated in frequency by a very
small amount
("chorusing" or "piano tuning solution": ask a piano tuner, if you don't
know about this
already)
2) add very small and fairly rapid random variation in the frquencies of
the two signals.
you'll be amazed how this can "enliven" and "thicken" a sound. This
type of "chorusing" has the advantage of being less obviously
"colored", which seems to just
mean that we can't as easily recognise the chorus' addition to the
overal timbre.
Good luck, and I bet you'll end up with some nice engaging ambient
drones.
CharlieB
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From: Paul Winkler
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, espiegel@sirius.com
Subject: Re: Searchable list archive?
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There is a nearly-empty online archive at
http://www.maths.ex.ac.uk/~james/csound_list/
James has reported that he's having problems updating it, and I suspect
he's given up.
You can download the past year-and-a-half in a Unix mailbox format (just
plain text with a special-character message separator) from:
ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/
Only trouble is, they're in about 400 small separate files; you need a
decent ftp application, since I don't think any web browsers can grab a
whole directory. Oh yeah, they're in gzip format.
A while ago I made indexed HTML archives from the mailbox archive; John
Ffitch said I could upload them to the dream site, but then he was
having technical problems. Since then I haven't seen any interest
expressed in a downloadable HTML archive so I pretty much gave up on
that project. I still have 'em if anyone really wants it. About seven
megs, if I remember right. Anyway, it finally dawned on me that it's
usually faster to find what you want by just using a text-searching tool
like grep with the plain text files ...
>Subject: Searchable list archive?
>Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 15:52:57 -0700
>From: Edward Spiegel
>To: "csound list"
>
>Is there a searchable archive of past mailing list messages or a
>downloadable archive of the past messages?
>
>I have a bunch of questions and hate to bother the list with questions
>that have been answered a billion times before.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Edward
>
>
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Cc: Hans Mikelson
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Hans Mikelson wrote, in response to my statement
that I needed to know more "calculus" to deal with DSP and filtering:
> I don't think Calculus is absolutely required for digital filter theory. If
> you know the equations for the frequency response you can get by with
> algebra. It would also help to understand some complex variable theory for
> doing the Z-transform.
Probably "calculus" is the wrong term for what Hans more clearly
describes. Whatever this stuff is, I need to know more of it - and
since I last studied maths in 1972, I need to get on the case.
Algebra, sines, cosines etc. I am fine with. In addition to
thise, there are some reasonably daunting looking formulae,
involving, to the best of my understanding:
1 - Integrating the results of the equation over a range of values of
one or more of its variables. (Isn't this calculus?)
2 - Equations which deal with two totally separate things at once:
a "real" thing, and an "imaginary" thing.
The imaginary thing is sometimes or always couched in terms of
the square-root of -1, which does not exist, and this prevents it
being converted into an ordinary number and mixed up with the
real stuff.
This "real" and "imaginary" stuff is known as "complex" variable
theory. I used to work at a tech college, and often saw a room full
of elecronic students and a teacher hammering away with scientific
calculators and a white-board full of formulae. So far, I have never
needed to know this stuff, and I always thought it was lopsided that
they were forced to know this stuff, yet most of them would have been
unable to tell me what a BC107 was, or which lead was its emitter,
base and collector.
If you sense the evident gaps in my knowledge, and can recommend some
reading for me, I would *really* appreciate it!
- Robin
===============================================================
Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au
Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia
First Principles Research and expression: music, Internet
music marketing, telecommunications, human
factors in technology adoption. Consumer
advocacy in telecommunications, especially
privacy. Consulting and technical writing.
Real World Electronics and software for music: eg.
Interfaces the Devil Fish mods for the TB-303.
===============================================================
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From: Jim Stevenson
Message-Id: <199806270503.WAA28654@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, rw@firstpr.com.au
Subject: Re: math requirements was DSP Filter book
Cc: hljmm@werewolf.net
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Could we please remember to change the subject line as threads evolve.
I do not need to read about what math others should learn when I am looking for
good books.
If someone wants to ask me a math question by phone on there phone bill,
I would be happy to help.
Thanks.
Jim Stevenson Ph.D
experimental psychologist & certified master Ericksonian clinical hypnotherapist.
jims@best.com
jims@eos.arc.nasa.gov
(650) 604-5720 w a.m. p.s.t
or leave message any time.
ham call
wb6yoy
When you answer my messages, please save bandwidth, and don't email my
text back to me.
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From: Sean Costello
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To: rw@firstpr.com.au
Cc: Csound Mailing List ,
Hans Mikelson
Subject: DSP Mathematics for Music (was Re: DSP Filter book)
References: <199806270544.PAA20288@gair.firstpr.com.au>
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Robin Whittle wrote:
> If you sense the evident gaps in my knowledge, and can recommend some
> reading for me, I would *really* appreciate it!
Well, I'm trying to fill the same gaps in my knowledge right now, so I
can give you some advice on what has worked for me.
Probably the best info I have found is in a 2-part article by F. Richard
Moore, titled "An Introduction to the Mathematics of Digital Signal
Processing." Moore begins by reviewing algebra and trig, and goes on to
explain sampling theory, the DFT, the Z-transform, and an introduction
to digital filtering. You can find these articles in the Computer Music
Journal, Volume II, Numbers 1 and 2. It was also reprinted in a book by,
um, John Strawn I think (I think the title was Digital Audio Signal
Processing: An Anthology). The cool feature of this article (and
Moore's comprehensive work, Elements of Computer Music, which I recently
purchased) is that Moore assumes no knowledge of calculus. Moore claims
that calculus is not really necessary for an elementary understanding of
digital signal processing, as DSP deals with a finite number of values
(rather than the infinite number of values that calculus deals with).
A great book is "A Digital Signal Processing Primer," by Ken Steiglitz.
This book is a little bit higher level than Moore's paper, but not by
much. Recommended reading order: Moore's paper, then Steiglitz's book,
then Moore's book. Steiglitz discusses calculus early on, but most of
the book seems to use the same types of mathematics that Moore's paper
does.
I'd give more recommendations, but I am still dealing with the above two
books. Definitely track down the Moore paper. And the Moore book would
probably be excellent for those who are oriented towards programming
techniques.
Sean Costello
P.S. A question for Robin: Do you ever plan on doing any Devilfish-type
mods on the MC-202? Your description of the Devilfish is extremely
droolworthy. I have put up a few posts on AH and synth-DIY about
modifying the MC-202 for full MIDI control, but no one seems interested
(or maybe my idea is just bad). Have you done any 202 mods?
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From: Matti Koskinen
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Fw: clicks in soundin & score editor sadness
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:41:12 +0300
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-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Baker
To: Matti Koskinen
Date: 27. kes=E4kuuta 1998 7:39
Subject: Re: clicks in soundin & score editor sadness
>>From the description, you have
>DC OFFSET
>in your file that is being read in.
>This can be removed by a specially
>designed highpass ("low-cut") filter,
>that removes signal energy < say, 3-8Hz,
>if you have a unix style os (SGI/NeXT/Linux)
>there is an excelent sound editor that has a fine
>dc-blocker filter: MXV or "MiXViews" .
>I havn't found a Mac editor that has this function,
>and as for CoolEdit/other PC editors...uh...dunno, although
>if my Intel box was working I would check.
>
>Which brings me to a sad revelation:
>I have lost access to my beta software Perl editor
>for csound scores I am writing, at least for a while:
>power supply went out on my intel box
>and since I mostly code/work under Linux,
>well...I hope & pray my SCSI disks are ok.
>(i have an older version in hardcopy and on tape,
>sooo...even if...)
>When I get my machine back, I'll see if I can't finish
>this...I think Score-11 is great, but open source is
>the way to go: BRAVO to MIT for maintaining
>csound and cscore as open source!!!
>I really think mine's a little simpler to use than the cscore
>lib, if only because you don't really have to code
>at all to edit your notelist (program prompts you...),
>but you can if you want.
>Wish me luck. I'm also sorry to say that I was asked if
>I couldn't get it on the MIT book/CDROM...but I doubt
>it'll be done in time, now. Sigh. Well, anyway I GOTTA
>get it out to you guys so maybe someone will use it and
>break it: I'm sure the Cecilia crowd will tell you how
>important bug reports are to a software product.
>
>L&K
>-CharlieB
>
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Drew Krause
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Math books
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Some thoughts on this thread...
The most mileage I've gotten has been from:
1) CRC Standard Curves and Surfaces (2- and 3-D pictorials with the
corresponding equations), and
2) Anything I can find in Dover (especially for finite group theory).
Cheap too.
////////////////////////////////
Drew Krause Miami, FL
dkrause@netside.net
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:28:44 +0000
From: johnnie ligotage
To: Robin Whittle
Cc: Csound Mailing List ,
Hans Mikelson
Subject: Top Mathematics book
In-Reply-To: <199806270544.PAA20288@gair.firstpr.com.au>
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Hiyah!
Try "Engineering Mathematics by KA Stroud, published by Macmillan, ISBN
0-333-44887-1". It's about 15 UKP for nearly a thousand pages and is very
undaunting as it's based around problems - and they give you the
answers... :-)
It's intended for 1st year engineering students and helped me get my head
round complex numbers!
__
John Blakeley
http://www.ligotage.demon.co.uk
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References: <01bda15c$9a125dc0$64e167ce@hans7.cray.com>
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:01:32 +0000
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Per Villez
Subject: Re: DSP Filter book
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An excellent book is "Introductory Signal Processing with Computer
Applications" by P. A. Lynn and Wolfgang Fuerst, published byWiley. It
makes the unspoken assumption that the reader doesn't have a great
mathematical ability ( I'm at idiot level) and gradually introduces the
necessary maths. It comes with a floppy of all the examples in both C and
Pascal. If you can manage basic trig then this book is for you.
>Hans Mikelson wrote, in response to my statement
>that I needed to know more "calculus" to deal with DSP and filtering:
>
>> I don't think Calculus is absolutely required for digital filter theory. If
>> you know the equations for the frequency response you can get by with
>> algebra. It would also help to understand some complex variable theory for
>> doing the Z-transform.
>
>Probably "calculus" is the wrong term for what Hans more clearly
>describes. Whatever this stuff is, I need to know more of it - and
>since I last studied maths in 1972, I need to get on the case.
>
>Algebra, sines, cosines etc. I am fine with. In addition to
>thise, there are some reasonably daunting looking formulae,
>involving, to the best of my understanding:
>
>1 - Integrating the results of the equation over a range of values of
> one or more of its variables. (Isn't this calculus?)
>
>2 - Equations which deal with two totally separate things at once:
> a "real" thing, and an "imaginary" thing.
>
> The imaginary thing is sometimes or always couched in terms of
> the square-root of -1, which does not exist, and this prevents it
> being converted into an ordinary number and mixed up with the
> real stuff.
>
>This "real" and "imaginary" stuff is known as "complex" variable
>theory. I used to work at a tech college, and often saw a room full
>of elecronic students and a teacher hammering away with scientific
>calculators and a white-board full of formulae. So far, I have never
>needed to know this stuff, and I always thought it was lopsided that
>they were forced to know this stuff, yet most of them would have been
>unable to tell me what a BC107 was, or which lead was its emitter,
>base and collector.
>
>
>If you sense the evident gaps in my knowledge, and can recommend some
>reading for me, I would *really* appreciate it!
>
>- Robin
>
>===============================================================
>
>Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au
> Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia
>
>First Principles Research and expression: music, Internet
> music marketing, telecommunications, human
> factors in technology adoption. Consumer
> advocacy in telecommunications, especially
> privacy. Consulting and technical writing.
>
>Real World Electronics and software for music: eg.
>Interfaces the Devil Fish mods for the TB-303.
>
>===============================================================
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From: Jim Stevenson
Message-Id: <199806271034.DAA29832@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, mjkoskin@sci.fi
Subject: Re: command driven sound editors?
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Which ones will run under Dos and or linux?
How are they different from each other?
To builders of sound editors, as always, please remember to include commands
that duplicate mouse functions. Its easy enough if you make it a design goal
from the start, and hell to retrofit, even if you say you can always
do it later.
If you quote me, please put your comments first.
I have already listened to my questions.
Thanks.
|