| Please keep the creeping evil that is General Midi away from csound.The
whole point of csound is it's flexibility and therefore enormous potential
for weird stuff.Configuring it to play karaoke versions of "I will survive"
seems perverse
to me (or maybe it's me who's perverse).
Martin Shellard
Music department
Goldsmiths college
University of London
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Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 09:22:59 -0500
From: Jean Piche
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Actually, GM can be very useful for a number of things, the first of
which is transportability. It does address a semi-finite set of timbres
but for pieces that use these, it is quite simply a blessing not to have
to remap all programs/patches to fit a particular sound-generating
device. Csound is a sound-generating device, a highly programmable one.
Adding GM compatibility to it in no way alters its generality.
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/Org/CompoElectro/CEC/
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To: Jean Piche
From: Martin Shellard
Subject: Re: GM is evil
Cc: csound
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>Jean Piche
>Actually, GM can be very useful for a number of things, the first of
>which is transportability. It does address a semi-finite set of timbres
>but for pieces that use these, it is quite simply a blessing not to have
>to remap all programs/patches to fit a particular sound-generating
>device. Csound is a sound-generating device, a highly programmable one.
>Adding GM compatibility to it in no way alters its generality.
I agree in principal that having access to frequently used sounds is very
useful,however when these sounds are drums,bass,strings,brass,el.piano etc.
blah blah...
In the context of Csound it seems to be another example of society
constraining a great concept into an easily marketable package.I predict
the release of the first Csound-based GM sound module,"Even better than a
Roland sound-canvas and you don't need a degree to use it!"
_____________________________________
Martin Shellard
Music department
Goldsmiths college
University of London
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From: Ken Locarnini
To: CSound Mailing List
Subject: GM is Evil
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 08:32:29 -0800
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>Jean Piche
>Actually, GM can be very useful for a number of things, the first of
>which is transportability. It does address a semi-finite set of timbres
>but for pieces that use these, it is quite simply a blessing not to have
>to remap all programs/patches to fit a particular sound-generating
>device. Csound is a sound-generating device, a highly programmable one.
>Adding GM compatibility to it in no way alters its generality.
GM is evil as anyone whos listenes to a dozen or so GM sequences that don't
translate well between boxes knows.
A far better effort would be to support DLS 1 which is a
standard that allows samples/multisamples to be packaged with a midi file
similar to a mod file. That way the music arrives sounding exactly as the
composer intended it. GM is so restritive andm its dead. DLS1 specs will
be released soon.
Check out these links:
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 09:21:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Berry
To: Martin Shellard
Cc: CSound mailing list
Subject: Re: GM is evil
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I would completely agree. GM should be able to be implemented
fully *within* an orchestra but should have no part in the underlying
code.
Mike Berry
mikeb@mills.edu
http://www.mills.edu/PEOPLE/gr.pages/mikeb.public.html/mikeb.homepage.html
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Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 09:27:48 -0800
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: GM is evil
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>>GM is evil as anyone whos listenes to a dozen or so GM sequences that don't
>>translate well between boxes knows.
>> A far better effort would be to support DLS 1 which is a
>>standard that allows samples/multisamples to be packaged with a midi file
>>similar to a mod file. That way the music arrives sounding exactly as the
>>composer intended it. GM is so restritive andm its dead. DLS1 specs will
>>be released soon.
>>Check out these links:
GM is not evil...it is one of those unfortunate things that happens when
technology and the markets need for a standard don't quite match up...but
for all its faults there can be some interesting work done with GM...I've
been working with GM for the past year and I must admit that I also thought
that GM was useless until I saw what could be done with it when a little
imagination was applied...I worked as the sound editor for a game called
Obsidian which was authored in mTropolis...one of the interesting things you
can do with MIDI is to mute/unmute tracks in response to users actions
thereby creating an interactivity that you can't achieve with DLS or samples
alone (try muting and unmuting 12 tracks of sample based music while keeping
them in synch)...another interesting technique that was used in Obsidian was
to pitch bend entire groupings of instruments relative to where the cursor
was in the scene...mTropolis gave us the ability to run samples and MIDI at
the same time (you can sync the samples to various things like cells in a
quicktime movie as well as user action etc) and this could be seen as a
similar arrangement as DLS...as for the success of DLS: where is the
Soundfont standard now? it seems to me that either MOD or RMF will probably
win the standards war in the "multi-format wrapper" arena...despite any
negative feelings about GM it is *not* dead...just the opposite: game
developers are very intrigued with being able to use samples & MIDI and are
looking to authoring tools for the ability to work with both in a multimedia
title...yes, GM does not guarantee compatability across all soundcards (I
spent *many* days tweaking MIDI files to play back correctly on various
platforms) and yes there are many restrictions in what kind of sounds are
available but again by using usual ranges of instruments combined with
layering (additive synthesis?) different instruments you can achieve some
very astonishing results...Csound is not going to become contaminated by the
inclusion of GM, it will just have yet another dimension to it...just my $.02...
_______________
<> kim.cascone <>
<> anechoic <>
<> heavenly.music.corporation <>
<>anechoic@sirius.com<>
<>http://www.silent.org/anechoic<>
<>sound.editor - headspace<>
"the medium is no longer the message...the tool is now the message"
____________________________________________________
"the meta-designer creates context, not content"
- Gene Youngblood
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:04:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Emory Menefee
To: CSound mailing list
Subject: Re: GM is evil
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On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, Martin Shellard wrote:
> Please keep the creeping evil that is General Midi away from csound.The
> whole point of csound is it's flexibility and therefore enormous potential
> for weird stuff.Configuring it to play karaoke versions of "I will survive"
> seems perverse
> to me (or maybe it's me who's perverse).
I would agree if Martin Shellard's premise of utility was correct, but I
have banks of remapped GM patch sets that use CSounds (definitely not for
karaoke). For convenience in what I like to do it would be hard to get
along without it. But maybe I'm misreading -- do you mean orcs that
produce GM sounds like those in sound card chips? Even there, I guess I
don't see the problem. If people want to use Csound to make GM
instruments, so what? Please enlighten (I am a fairly simplistic user of
CSound).
Emory Menefee
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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 11:19:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "Matt J. Ingalls"
To: anechoic@sirius.com
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: GM is evil
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first of all, did i miss something? is there some big GM development in
csound?
> been working with GM for the past year and I must admit that I also thought
> that GM was useless until I saw what could be done with it when a little
> imagination was applied...I worked as the sound editor for a game called
that's the thing. you have to bend over backwards to create something
interesting. so why bother, unless you are restricted to using it (such
as doing sound for a game).
Csound is known for being just the opposite(too "open" with a high
learning curve)
> very astonishing results...Csound is not going to become contaminated by the
> inclusion of GM, it will just have yet another dimension to it...just my $.02...
i think there are too many opcodes as it is, and would like to see
plug-in-able GM so i could leave it out, but i would prefer the
inconvienence of some thing taking up space that i dont use over
leaving out something that people might find useful.
(by the way i saw Obsidian a day i was at Headspace, and the sound WAS
cool!)
-matt
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From: Hans Mikelson
Subject: Re: My Csound Instrument Web Site
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If you have had trouble accessing my site try the following URL:
http://discover.discover-net.net/~hljmm/csound/
I added some new stuff too.
| | | \ | / Hans P. Mikelson
| __ | __/ | \ | hljmm@discover-net.net
|__ |__ |__ |__ \_ |__ http://discover-net.net/~hljmm/
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To: chasque!maths.bath.ac.uk!jpff@cdp.igc.org
From: Pablo Sotuyo
Subject: Re: Decimal precision
Cc: chasque!noether.ex.ac.uk!csound@cdp.igc.org
Sender: a73.chasque.apc.org!psotuyo@chasque.apc.org
Hi John.. and every csounder out there...
At 19:16 14/02/97 GMT, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>Message written at 14 Feb 1997 10:51:23 +0000
>--- Copy of mail to gb141@columbia.edu ---
>In-reply-to: <3303B704.7BC4@columbia.edu> (message from Gregory Boduch on Thu,
> 13 Feb 1997 19:51:16 -0500)
>
>Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had
>removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i
>woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong.
>==John ff
>
>Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a constant
>Gregory> such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . I'm trying
>Gregory> to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an insturment. It
>Gregory> involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform calculations involving more
>Gregory> than 3 decimal places or exponential notation in Csound orchestra
file?
>
I am soooo sorry... but it not my fault.
I sent a msg few days ago Re:3 digits only? without knowing the msg I quote
here.
I received this msg. right now. There was a routing problem at my server...
It seems to be solved (I received more than 1000 msgs outdated all toghether
;)))
I will try to download the latest version of Csound... Hope will continue
receiving msgs regularly...
Thanks for you time...
Pablo Sotuyo.
=======================================
Pablo Sotuyo
Composer - French Horn Player
Luppo Music Editor
mailto:psotuyo@chasque.apc.org
=======================================
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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 03:39:22 -0300 (GMT-0300)
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To: jpff <@cdp.igc.org,@chasque:jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk>
From: Pablo Sotuyo
Subject: Re: Decimal precision
Cc: csound <@cdp.igc.org,@chasque:csound@noether.ex.AC.UK>
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Hi John.. and every csounder out there...
At 19:16 14/02/97 GMT, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>Message written at 14 Feb 1997 10:51:23 +0000
>--- Copy of mail to gb141@columbia.edu ---
>In-reply-to: <3303B704.7BC4@columbia.edu> (message from Gregory Boduch on Thu,
> 13 Feb 1997 19:51:16 -0500)
>
>Can you say which version of Csoudn you are using? I thought I had
>removed this restriction within orchestras, but if it is still there i
>woudl rather like to have an explicit example of what goes wrong.
>==John ff
>
>Gregory> Csound seems to ignore decimal places after 3. If I define a constant
>Gregory> such as 0.0000000001 it seems to think it's 0.000 . I'm trying
>Gregory> to code a sones-to-dB conversion formula in an insturment. It
>Gregory> involves 10^-12. Is there a way to perform calculations involving more
>Gregory> than 3 decimal places or exponential notation in Csound orchestra
file?
>
I am soooo sorry... but it not my fault.
I sent a msg few days ago Re:3 digits only? without knowing the msg I quote
here.
I received this msg. right now. There was a routing problem at my server...
It seems to be solved (I received more than 1000 msgs outdated all toghether
;)))
I will try to download the latest version of Csound... Hope will continue
receiving msgs regularly...
Thanks for you time...
Pablo Sotuyo.
=======================================
Pablo Sotuyo
Composer - French Horn Player
Luppo Music Editor
mailto:psotuyo@chasque.apc.org
=======================================
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Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:10:58 +0100 (ITA)
Message-Id: <3323D236.22E6@agora.stm.it>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 10:19:50 +0100
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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To: Dennis Miller
Cc: Csound Mailing List
Subject: Re: Win95 REALTIME MIDI CSOUND VERSION
References: <199703032041.PAA00424@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
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Dennis Miller wrote:
>
> Hi Gabriel. I'm afraid I wouldn't know what command line to use to pipe
> the output to my soundcard in realtime as the example you posted
> specifically addresses the SB. What would the syntax be for some other
> card; what exactly are you specifying when you include -Msbmidi in your
> command line? Guess I'm missing what that variable is calling. Could
> you clarify then I will try it with the Digidesign Audiomedia card?
> Does the card need DOS drivers, perhaps??
> thanks,
> dennis
For the complete functionality of my version you need two cards:
a MIDI interface and a WAVE card. Soundblaster normally includes the two
cards functionalities in one.
The -Msbmidi flag affects only the MIDI input port of the MIDI card.
The -Msbmidi flag should be good for all win95 MIDI drivers and not only
for
Soundblaster compatibles ones (attention! Windows drivers, NOT Dos
drivers).
So you must have a MIDI card installed if this feature is not already
included in the wave card.
The -Msbmidi flag is optional and is required only if you want to
control Csound via MIDI. I have 2 midi cards installed in my PC and
normally I use an MPU401 compatible card for inputting MIDI (no
soundblaster!). It works OK.
If your card has win95 driver installed, Csound should recognize it. Try
the following command line:
csound.exe -p12 -B882 -b882 -Msbmidi miditest.orc miditest.sco
-odevaudio
If you have more than one WAVE device or more than one MIDI device,
Csound lists all active devices and prompts you the device number
wanted. So you must type this number after Csound has started.
If you only want realtime WAVE output and you are not interested in MIDI
control try the following command line with a normal orc/sco pair
(containing no midi-ops).
csound.exe -p12 -B882 -b882 xxx.orc xxx.sco -odevaudio
(the value of "-p" (buffer number), "-B" and "-b" (buffer length) could
need some adjustments)
I cannot guarantee for the correct WAVE operation of my version because
I have tasted it only with my SB awe32 WAVE output.
--
Gabriel Maldonado
mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
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