| >
>kdown line 1, p3, .125 ;cause a 3 octave drop over p3 seconds.
I should mention that using line won't get you a smooth descent for your
portamento, because the mapping between frequency and pitch is not linear.
Try using expon, instead...
kdown expon 1, p3, .125
...or if you want to think linearly, work in oct, then convert to cps:
ibase = cpsoct (1) ;relative ibasefreq
koct line 1, p3, .125 ;3 octave drop over p3 seconds
kdown = cpsoct (koct)
; loscil xamp, kcps, ifn,[ibasefreq,][imod1, ibeg, iend]
a2 loscil 10000, kdown, 1, ibase, 1, 0, 363790
...that ought to work, too, but I haven't tested it.
RP
----------------------------------
Russell F. Pinkston, D.M.A.
Associate Professor of Composition
Director, Electronic Music Studios
School of Music
The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712
[512-471-0865]
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>...or if you want to think linearly, work in oct, then convert to cps:
>
>ibase = cpsoct (1) ;relative ibasefreq
>koct line 1, p3, .125 ;3 octave drop over p3 seconds
>kdown = cpsoct (koct)
>
>; loscil xamp, kcps, ifn,[ibasefreq,][imod1, ibeg, iend]
>a2 loscil 10000, kdown, 1, ibase, 1, 0, 363790
>
Sorry, still need more coffee, I guess. The above won't give a three octave
drop, of course. Try this:
ibase = cpsoct (8) ;arbitrary relative ibasefreq of middle c
koct line 8, p3, 5 ;3 octave drop from oct 8 to oct 5 over p3
seconds
kdown = cpsoct (koct) ;convert oct to cps for loscil
; loscil xamp, kcps, ifn,[ibasefreq,][imod1, ibeg, iend]
a2 loscil 10000, kdown, 1, ibase, 1, 0, 363790
RP
----------------------------------
Russell F. Pinkston, D.M.A.
Associate Professor of Composition
Director, Electronic Music Studios
School of Music
The University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX 78712
[512-471-0865]
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:13:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Troxler
To: Gabriel Maldonado
Cc: Csound Mailing List
Subject: Re: csound parser
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On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Gabriel Maldonado wrote:
> I think that any Csound change should increase its portability and,
> above all, its efficiency in terms of speed. So I'm not completely sure
> that a total C++ port of Csound is the best idea. I think it is better
> to keep the critical parts of code in C. Also, some time ago somebody
> observed that C++ language is not a real standard, at least until now.
It is a myth that C++ is somehow slower than the same code in C.
Efficiency is not a valid concern.
Larry
-- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA --
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Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:52:13 +0100
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:52:11 +0100 (MET)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: "Matt J. Ingalls"
Cc: David Ratajczak , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: new csound/parser/SAOL/strings in sco
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Dear csounders,
let me pick up the last mail I got in this thread to make some quick
replies (it won't be long as last time, I promise).
On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
(this replies to David Ratajczak too)
[snip]
>
> > good idea to consider dramatic structural changes to csound.
>
> > rewrite in C++ that would alleviate many of the current problems. I'd
> > be interested to hear ideas from other people as far as object
>
> i would propose the exact opposite: start from the ground up by
> rewriting the (at least basic) opcodes as a platform independant Shared
> Library in C (if this is done right, will secure the longevity of the code
my personal experience in programming tells me exactely the opposite
of these two opposites: as I already said, you should'nt touch code
that works. Even if it's ugly. Several years ago I picked up the csound
code and tried to clean up the warnings cropping up with gcc -Wall:
tons and tons of correct warnings (that is, badly written conditionals,
etc.). Result: I broke the code and had to throw everything away because
I did not have enough time to debug it properly. We must remember that
we are all working for free here, so we are paying with our time the
need for these nicely-featured tools that we all get. Personally, I
cannot afford a rewrite: the only thing I can afford right now (and I
am not even sure about that) is a new parser, and that's what I am doing
right now. Initially, this new parser won't change the language *even
in the smallest detail*: that's my target. But if/when it'll be available,
it will allow other people to add new syntactic features to csound.
Be aware that grammars are not an easy thing to deal with: it is extremely
easy to produce "personalized" features which are not really useful
in a general way and may even make the language less clear than it
is now (a hard endeavour I must admit). A language, in order to be useful,
must be diffused (read/spoken) by a community, is'nt it?
[snip]
> so many users of CSound that are programmers too, there
> must be alot of you who share my experience: wanting to at times just use
> CSound (or even something of a higher level - maybe a GUI) and some times
> wanting to either temporarily drop down into C/C++ or just write your own
> code that makes certain calls to CSound (so far
> the only thing we can really do is write score generators and write our
> own opcodes)
I usually use text filtering programs (awk, perl, etc.) to produce
final orc/sco files and that works for me very well. Another thing that
could be done is (as I proposed in another mail) to keep the opcodes
in dinamically linked libraries and to access them via the csound main
*OR* with other applications (it would be nice, for example, to use a
tcl/tk interface to the library; another idea would be to build the
correct translation interface for PD, the public domain MAX replacement
from Miller Puckette that works also with audio, to the csound opcodes,
etc. etc.). The lightweight approach of using interpreters allow to
do disposable little programs that can, if need be, written for single
musical pieces or requirements and then thrown away (that is, rest unused
for the rest of their/my life).
>
> > the MPEG4 standard have thought this through. The orc/sco files
> I've > seen for SAOL/MPEG4 seems to have a sort of "csound++" flavor. I
> > However, they have made a number of design decisions that have made
> > realtime performance implausible.
>
> Can someone explain to me what is the *intent* of SAOL/MPEG4?? Is
> it indeed a "new Csound"? i was thinking it was intended as sort of a
> real-time java for sound? is SAOL designed to be a composer's tool or for
> (commercial) developers? please explain..
>From what I understand, SAOL is an attempt to write a protocol (there's
no specification for 'real-time', AFAIK) so that you don't have to send
synthesized samples through the network, you just send the algorithms.
It's the same idea than X11, basically. The nice thing is that they picked
up quite a lot of lessons from csound and made a better language. There
are many other nice languages for sound synthesis: nyquist, common music,
etc. They have many advantages over csound, because they came later.
But: csound still has the biggest following, and thus more people that
write opcodes, etc. etc. So: let's talk about adding features and
easyness to csound - other languages will come and we'll switch to
them when times will be ripe.
[snip]
> i actually just last night was looking into this (for existing
> CSound) i was going to try something a bit simpler by making a GEN02-kind
> of thing but with strings for values. (this is to have a lookup table for
> a soundfile so i dont have to rename all my files to soundin.xx) anybody
> ever do anything like this?
I pick up this example as a typical case of an extension that is connected
to a platform-specific problem. If you have a platform that *truly*
support symbolic links, you don't have to rename your files to soundin.xx,
and it is actually very convenient to use symbolic links between
files and soundins, so that you don't have to hardwire in your orc or
sco the names that may change in the future. For those diminished platforms
that do not fully support links, maybe we (somebody else, not me) could
work out a solution like this: why not providing a configuration file
(loaded with an option, for example, like the -x files) that gives
the correspondence between soundins and file names? This is:
1) easier to do
2) perhaps even useful to everybody else
Sorry, it again took very long.
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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To: Gabriel Maldonado , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: csound parser
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This sounds like we are moving Csound towards being a full scripting
language. I like the idea of a synthesis language with a little more
richness than Csound (obviously, SAOL already fits this bill quite well) ,
but would be a dramatic change to the nature of Csound - perhaps too much?
How far can it be taken before we end up reinventing CMIX? (What are the
odds that one day we can embed Csound in a web page?)
Gabriel Maldonado wrote:
> With respect of adding new features to the ORC language, I suggest the
> following things:
>
> 1) the possibility to implement multi-arguments functions and
> subroutines that can be written directly in the orc code with following
> form:
> ;****CALLING A FUNCTION (named 'anyfunc1' in this example)
> a1 oscili anyfunc1(a2,a3,a4) * kamp, anyfunc2(a3,a4,a5), 1
>
> ;**** BODY OF A FUNCTION
> func anyfunc1(aparm1,kparm2,iparm3,kparm4)
> avalue = aparm1+sqrt(parm2)
> avalue2 oscili avalue, kparm2 ,iparm3
> areturn avalue2 * kparm4
> endfunc
>
> ;**** CALLING A SUB (named 'anysub' in this example)
> aoutarg1, aoutarg2 anysub ainarg1,ainarg2, kinarg3
>
> ;**** BODY OF A SUB
> sub anysub(aoutarg1,aoutarg2,ainarg1,kinarg2,inarg3)
> aoutarg1 oscili 1,ainarg1,1
> aoutarg2 oscili 1,kinarg2,1
> aoutarg3 oscili 1,inarg3,1
> endsub
I'm not sure what you means by 'compiled as inline', given that Csound
doesn't compile anything,as such. Are these really macros?
What would be the necessary restrictions on these? For example, presumably
the oscili instances retain their internal state between calls, i.e are
effectively static objects. So presumably they are not re-entrant. How
would they behave if control occasionally jumped past them? Presumably these
would not be global functions, but within the scope of an instrument? Could
the same function be called more than once in the same argument list? eg:
a1 oscili anyfunc1(a2,a3,a4) * kamp, anyfunc1(a3,a4,a5), 1)
A function which only allowed arithmetical statements might be a useful
inclusion - it could have global scope. Also a function which allowed local
variables, so that some private modification of a krate argument could be
made at arate, might be useful. The local variable could have an initializer
which is reset at each krate step (or integer multiple).
> 3) standard structured languages conditional flow of control
> statements:if...elseif...else...endif,
> switch...case...default..endswitch,
Someone will surely want these at arate as well as i- and krate. That is a
lot of keywords!In a switch, would all the 'cases' need to be at the same
rate? There must be many examples where the direct transfer of procedural
constructs to Csound is complicated by the issue of multiple execution
rates.
At the moment, the distinction betweeen control statments such as kgoto and
synthesis opcodes is handled deep within the code - they all appear as
opcodes in entry.c. Would it be feasible to make the distinction explicit,
by separating out Csound keywords (instr, endin, label,reinit, etc) from the
audio opcodes? It is not clear to me at the moment which opcodes apart from
the first three could be explicitly built into the parser, while keeping the
rest of the code as it is.
> 4) semi-global variables, shared within several instances of the same
> instr during the performance, but not within instrs of different number.
Yes! This would arise easily in a C++ implementation; they would be 'static'
variables for the instrument. I have long felt the need to have some means
of preserving context across instrument calls - for example, to have the
equivalent to the 'np' and pp' score fields, in the instrument. What would
everyone feel about an extra qualifier for an instr to make it monophonic?
It could be as simple as " instr 1 mono" - this would remove the need for
much special jiggery-pokery in the score.
> SCO language additions:
One factor which needs to be allowed for is the cscore tool, which draws on
quite a number of the core Csound functions. The sco parser would have
obvious uses here, and itself would need to be called within Csound after
the call to cscore(). Is any one on the list an active cscore programmer?
I can see that posts on this topic are going to be very long!
Richard Dobson
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Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking
To: Csound mailing list
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:38:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Eli Brandt
In-Reply-To: from "Nicola Bernardini" at Feb 13, 98 05:02:48 pm
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Nicola Bernardini wrote:
> been, as far as I know): it's absolutely impossible to modify and
> maintain that section of code the way it is written. Which brings
> me to another subject: is the csound community interested in attempting
> a backward-compatible re-write of the parser using decent tools like
> lex (flex) and yacc (bison)?
It's always hard to argue when somebody else says they'd like to
rewrite an unmaintainable body of code. :-)
> This would allow, after rebuilding the parser,
> much better possibilities in extending the language for important
> things like array variables, better conditionals, sub-patching
> (instrument stacking), parameter field passing with strings, numbers,
> variables, etc.
This would certainly be nice. Another possibility to consider is
finding a system that's got the language you want, and porting
the missing Csound ugens to it.
--
Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:01:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Matt J. Ingalls"
To: Nicola Bernardini
Cc: David Ratajczak , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: new csound/parser/SAOL/strings in sco
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> right now. Initially, this new parser won't change the language *even
> in the smallest detail*: that's my target. But if/when it'll be available,
im suggesting leave CSound as is and start "porting" it into a
more open-ended platform independant synthesis library. but does
something like this already exist?
>
> I pick up this example as a typical case of an extension that is connected
> to a platform-specific problem. If you have a platform that *truly*
> support symbolic links, you don't have to rename your files to soundin.xx,
im just a stupid mac-user - could you explain this more?
-matt
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Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:36:50 +0100
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:36:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: Eli Brandt
Cc: Csound mailing list
Subject: Re: entry.c and dynamic linking
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On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Eli Brandt wrote:
> Nicola Bernardini wrote:
[snip]
> This would certainly be nice. Another possibility to consider is
> finding a system that's got the language you want, and porting
> the missing Csound ugens to it.
well, I must say I like the csound language enough...
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:34:36 +0100 (MET)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: "Matt J. Ingalls"
Cc: Csound mailing list
Subject: Re: new csound/parser/SAOL/strings in sco
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On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Matt J. Ingalls wrote:
[snip]
> > I pick up this example as a typical case of an extension that is connected
> > to a platform-specific problem. If you have a platform that *truly*
> > support symbolic links, you don't have to rename your files to soundin.xx,
>
> im just a stupid mac-user - could you explain this more?
please don't take my words as offensive: that is absolutely not
what I mean. What I meant is that on some systems, namely Windows 95
or Mac OS, there are things like "connections" and "aliases" which
at first sight may look like unix's symbolic links. I do not know
about macintoshes, but unfortunately the connections on Win95 do not
work as symbolic links, that is, csound is not able to read files
that are just connections (or aliases, if you wish) to sound files
(at least that was the case the last time I looked at it).
On unix systems these things work, that's all: you can apply a symbolic
link to a sound file, name it soundin.xx and csound will read it
as a sound file.
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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From: Ross Clement
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Subject: Self-introduction continued
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Hi. In addition to the self-introduction that I posted a few days ago, I'll
add that I consider myself (arrogance alert!) a pretty good C programmer/
developer. However, it's probably advisable that I actually learn how to
use CSOund before I start getting involved in its design/implementation!
Cheers,
Ross-c
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From: Olivier Pasquet
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Death of modern music
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Chris Strelioff wrote:
Hi Oliver,
If you haven't already, try Morton Feldman. He didn't work in the
world of electroacoustic music. Instead he composed for piano or small
ensembles. In particular try these pieces:
Triadic Memories(1981) - ALM Records #33
Piano and String Quartet(1985) - Elektra Nonesuch 79320-2
These are extended pieces ( about 80 mins each ) that have slow melodic
progression in a totally unique style. I listen to these pieces over
and over, the nuances are incredible.
There are others that probe the postmodern music world that stand out,
but Morton Feldman is my favorite. If you're interested in other people
I think have a unique voice, try:
Pauline Oliveros' Deep listening Band
Alvin Lucier
Alvin Curran
Hope this sparks some interest.
Chris Strelioff
Olivier Pasquet wrote:
>
> Hello again,
>
> I have to say something about a BIG problem in NEW music.
> Sorry, this is still not about CSound even if I am one of it fanatics.
>
> Don't you think nothing happened since maybe 15-20 years? OK, there are new
> sounds, new technics of composition and so on. But after having seen many
and
> many concerts, I feel a bit like Varese.
> When I hear an electroacoustic piece, a atonal piece and all pieces that are
> sayed NEW, I think: Yes, and what... Nothing is new it always sounds nearly
> the same.
> This is an ambisonic sound, this is a stochastic thing... OK but it has been
> done already. Or if the technic is really new, it is not actually so new and
> usually sounds like in the 80s...
> Maybe we have been to quickly and with to much freedom. I do not know.
> In an other case, contemporary music is existing. Humanity will always have
> something to express but the way is not new.
>
> It is time to replace electrons by something else. Synthesis idea by
something
> NEW. The time will say it.
> WHO CAN HELP ME?
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From: Olivier Pasquet
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Subject: Death of modern music
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Hello Chris,
Thank you for your advices, I actually do not know any of them... So, it will
be a good experience to listen to them (if I find them somewhere).
Someone wrote me that I had to find a new direction for modern music. I am not
Schoenberg. Even Schoenberg himself did not invented "hot water", what he did
(technically) was simply logical in the story of music. It is like Pierre
Shaeffer with his Musique concrete: he was here at the right time.
I think that the genius is in the individual and unique artistic expression
but not in the technic.
So, maybe it is only a question of time and the Nature will make someone
decide to find something else at the right time. Is it not the time?
For my part, I cannot reinvent the world but I would be glad to discover
something else as I dicovered electronic music a long time ago (I'm 23...). I
do not say I have enought but Avant-Garde is before people have enought. Think
about research in music.
I must stop speaking about these things; I forget it is a CSound mailing list.
Bye Bye, Olivier.
APU - Faculty of Music - Cambridge UK
op101@mercury.anglia.ac.uk
http://www.sinclair.anglia.ac.uk/~op101.student.cambridge.anglia
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Subject: Re: new csound/parser/SAOL/strings in sco
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On Windows95 you can make a 'shortcut' to any file or folder. As an icon, if you
double-click on it, it works just like an alias - the system fires up whatever
program is associated with the target.
The problem is that the shortcut itself is a little binary file, with the
extension .lnk . So it's a facility at the operating system level, not
automatically recognized directly by executables.
It should be possible to find out the format of a lnk file, so that Csound can be
extended to recognize it.
Richard Dobson
Nicola Bernardini wrote:
> [snip] ... on some systems, namely Windows 95
> or Mac OS, there are things like "connections" and "aliases" which
> at first sight may look like unix's symbolic links. I do not know
> about macintoshes, but unfortunately the connections on Win95 do not
> work as symbolic links, that is, csound is not able to read files
> that are just connections (or aliases, if you wish) to sound files
> (at least that was the case the last time I looked at it).
> On unix systems these things work, that's all: you can apply a symbolic
> link to a sound file, name it soundin.xx and csound will read it
> as a sound file.
>
> Nicola
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nicola Bernardini
> E-mail: nicb@axnet.it
>
> Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
> the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
> with pictures.
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I would like to suggest a standard format for postings to the group on this topic,
more-or-less on the lines of the one I have used for this message. A similar
system is used on a discussion list for people writing Windows Device Drivers.
What do people think?
Richard Dobson
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Follow-up message:
I have found the code to read a shortcut from Microsoft's Knowledge Base, so I will
have a go adding a symbolic link facility to Csound.
> On Windows95 you can make a 'shortcut' to any file or folder. As an icon, if you
> double-click on it, it works just like an alias - the system fires up whatever
> program is associated with the target.
> The problem is that the shortcut itself is a little binary file, with the
> extension .lnk . So it's a facility at the operating system level, not
> automatically recognized directly by executables.
>
> It should be possible to find out the format of a lnk file, so that Csound can be
> extended to recognize it.
>
> Richard Dobson
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From: David Schuyeteneer
To: csound mailing list
Subject: SAOL MP4 questions
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:24:59 +0100
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How does SAOL work ? like Csound ? i.e with an orc and sco ??
I dowloaded SAOL for Win95 but I couldn't compile with the -orc neither
-sco command....
instead it DID work with the -bitstream vowels.mp4 command....
Saol took the mp4 file and used to proper vowels.sao and vowels.sasl files
!
My question is : if I need an mp4 file to compile saol orc and sco's, how
can I make them ???
David.
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