| Message written at 8 Jun 1997 12:20:41 +0100
In-reply-to: <3394C3EA.55EEB829@westnet.com> (message from Larry Troxler on
Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:24:58 -0400)
In all the sources I have seen for a long time -o dac and -o devaudio
are alternatives for the same thing; similarly -i adc and -i devaudio
are synonyms.
==John ff
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From: Robin Whittle
Organization: First Principles
To: csound
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:22:07 +1000
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Subject: Sound apps are proliferating!
Cc: Bill Schottstaedt
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Regarding:
Linux sound driver unification
Linux sound applications
Excellent looking "snd" editor from Stanford for Linux, SGI
and probably any other unix system.
There is a project to unify sound driver software for all Linux
systems - with a very cost effective ($20) arm supporting a free
version as well. A very interesting paradigm for software
development.
Find out all about it at:
http://www.4front-tech.com/
There you will find a list of applications which talk to this
interface (which is for sound, MIDI and FM synthesis amongst other
things besides):
http://www.4front-tech.com/ossapps.html
One application I had not heard of was the "snd" editor by Bill
Schottstaedt (bil@ccrma.stanford.edu)
http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Software/snd/snd.html
I just downloaded it and it ran like a beauty!
This is an X application (no tcl/tk), freely available, with a
binaries for Linux and SGI, with full source code availability (half
a megabyte - when gzipped - of serious looking code), excellent html
documentation and a list of features a mile long . . . .
Bill Schottstaedt's brief description is:
Snd is a sound editor modelled loosely after Emacs and an old,
sorely-missed PDP-10 sound editor named Dpysnd. It can accomodate any
number of sounds at once, each with any number of channels. Each
channel is normally displayed in its own window, with its own cursor,
edit history, and marks; each sound has a 'control panel' to try out
various changes quickly, and an expression parser, used mainly during
searches; there is an overall stack of 'regions' that can be browsed
and edited; channels and sounds can be grouped together during
editing; edits can be undone and redone without restriction
('unlimited undo'); Snd can be customized using an Emacs-lisp-like
syntax; it can also be extended with user-supplied editing or display
functions loaded at run time; and it's free; the code is available via
anonymous ftp from ccrma-ftp.stanford.edu as pub/Lisp/snd.tar.gz.
PDP-10??? I think we have some old-timer experience at work here!
This is definitely hot off the presses - it was put on the Stanford
site on Friday.
Thanks Bill!!!
- Robin
- Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au -
- Consumer advocacy in telecommun- -
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- -
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- -
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From: Robin Whittle
Organization: First Principles
To: csound
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:22:07 +1000
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Subject: Re: Cecilia, Linux & tcl/tk
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Simplifed version of how to get Cecilia going with Red Hat 4.0 Linux
(Kernel 2.0.18).
I got the Csound binary distribution file from:
ftp://mustec.bgsu.edu/pub/linux
(Thanks Simon Kagedal!)
unzipped it and put the csound executable in
/usr/local/bin/
Got the gzipped tar Cecilia distribution file
ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/sgi/cecLINUX1.75.tar.gz
and unpacked its contents into:
/usr/local/lib/cecilia/BuiltIn
/Graphics
/dev
/doc
and read the README file there.
In my /root/.bashsrc file, I added the lines:
export CEC_LIBRARY=/usr/local/lib/cecilia
export SFDIR=/usr/temp/csound/
export SADIR=/usr/temp/csound/
export SSDIR=/usr/temp/csound/
This is very different from the setup.html instructions in the
Cecilia documentation, which assume the "csh" shell rather than
"bash" which is the default for Linux. (Don't forget the leading "/"
before "usr"!! - I did.)
Also, this doco indicates that it is not absolutely necessary to add
SFDIR, SADIR and SSDIR to the environment. In reality it seems that
they must set be in order for Cecilia to start up for the first time.
The README text file in /usr/local/lib/cecilia/ does indicate that
these should be set first.
Then I looked around to see where the "wish" tk interpreter was. It
was not in /usr/local/bin as the file:
/usr/local/lib/cecilia/BuiltIn/dev/xcec
was expecting, so I altered xcec's first line to read:
#!/usr/bin/wish
//Begin symbolic link drama:
Then, following the Linux specific instructions in README
("Make a symbolic link to 'xcec' and move the link to
somewhere in your executable path." I directly (using
Midnight Commander) created a symbolic link:
/usr/bin/xcec
which pointed to
/usr/local/lib/cecilia/dev/xcec
I tried to run Cecilia, by starting up an Xterm, and as root,
from /root, typing xcec. The error report was:
bash: /bin/xcec: No such file or directory
After a lot of experimentation, which included errors such
as "invalid command name "doCecilia", I found that I could run
it if I changed to the /usr/local/lib/cecilia/dev/ directory
and typed:
wish xcec.
For reasons unknown the problem was solved by directly creating
the link in /bin/ instead:
/bin/xcec = symbolic link to /usr/local/lib/cecilia/dev/xcec
However I later found that creating a symbolic link in the
same directory as xcec:
/usr/local/lib/cecilia/dev/cec = symbolic link to:
/usr/local/lib/cecilia/dev/xcec
and then moving it - again with Midnight Commander - to
/usr/local/bin/cec worked fine. What the difference is
between a freshly created symbolic link and one which
has been moved from somewhere else, I could not figure,
but . . .
Then I found that it was OK to create directly a symbolic
link of a name other than "xcec" in /usr/local/bin/ - so
the problem with having a symbolic link called:
/usr/local/bin/xcec
was apparently related to both its location and the fact that
its name was the same as the file it was pointing to.
// End symbolic link drama.
In conclusion, one way or another, create a symbolic link to:
/usr/local/lib/cecilia/dev/xcec
in a directory in your executable path, but make sure the link has a
name other than "xcec"!
My link is now:
/usr/local/bin/cec
Then from a fresh Xterm, I typed cec (Actually when I first got
Cecilia running, I was doing it without a symobolic link.)
A small Cecilia window popped up!!!! This is what I will call the
"Main" menu. Subsequenly a multi-pane "Module" window is spawned.
When I first ran it, I had a lot of trouble since I did not realise
that there were in fact two windows - the Main one must have become
hidden somehow.
Then I fired up Netscape to read through the Cecilia .html
documentation. The same can be achieved with the Help function in
either Cecilia window.
I tried reading in some existing .orc and .sco files. Cecilia
defaulted to the directory which the Xterm ran from, (/root) and there
doesn't seem to be a way of telling it a directory to get .orcs and
.scos or its module files from, so now I will cd to an appropriate
work directory before typing cec.
I loaded the orc and sco file of xanadu.
Looked at the html doco, got stuck where is says "What happens when
you push 'Preview' or 'Write' in the Main window." but was confused
since now I was in a big "Module" window and had not realised that
there was a smaller one somewhere else.
Continuing reading the documentation to "jump.html" it took a while to
realise that the "Button-3 opcode insert featured involved using the
third button of the trackball, after placing the active cursor in one
of the score, orchestra or tk_interface windows. (I had previously
figured out how to open the tk_interface window from the Sections
menu, and had created a new Module, and saved it as the doco
instructed.
(Then, before I could explore it, the Button 3 system stopped
working in the tk_interface section for reasons unknown. I also had
one glitch where the module window stayed on screen when I paged to a
separate area of the 9 screen virtual window.)
So I closed the program down, and ran it again. This I rediscovered
the Main window and things started to become clearer!
I don't have a lot of guidance beyond this stage. There is a
learning curve here (another damn language to learn (tcl/tk, and some
rethinking of how to use Csound - whilst I am trying to learn C++ and
the finer points of HTML . . . ), but I can see that Cecilia will be a
very worthwhile reason for learning this stuff.
I was able to get the csound program to compile, by going back to the
Main window and pressing "Write".
I really like the coloured highlighting of .orc and .sco key words and
comments! ("Edit: Colorize" in the Module Editeur window.
Alternatively set the "Sections: Colorize on parse" - but it takes
longer to load a new module then . . .)
After while I figured out how to move the pane borders by dragging
the boxes on the right which label them.
Initially when I tried to compile the unmodified Xanadu piece, by
pressing Write in the Main window, I got a window for Csound graphics,
which I clicked on, and not much more. Csound was evidently cooking -
as evidenced by the CPU usage graph, but it was not clear what was
happening. In the Main window, "Windows: Open Csound window" should
be checked to see Csound's text output.
I found the Main Window "Options: Sample Type" to select .WAV file
output (and input?) but I think I had to edit the .AIFF from the
actual file name in the soundOUT box.
Then I closed this module and went to the small window, to do File,
New Module,
I chose Delay and explored it a little, mainly playing with the
impressive graphs, without much of a care as to what I was doing.
Then I tried to "Write" it, but it needed an input sound - so I gave
it a mono 44.1kHz wav file - which it said "ERROR! Audio file is not
valid".
It recognised it at mono 16 bit RIFF WAVE format etc . ..
These WAV files were definitely OK - and it would complain about an
.aiff file too. (It recognised it but still complained about an
error.) I tried feeding it a .WAV file I had just created with
Cecilia, and it complained about this too.
This may just be an erroroneous error report, since the Delay module
seemed to be happy with the .WAV file I gave it, producing an output
file which was not garbage.
To Do:
1 - Upgrade my kernel to something like 2.1.40 so it has the Open
Sound System sound card drivers which should work with my gleaming new
Zefiro digital audio I/O sound card (http://www.zefiro.com and
http://www.4front-tech.com)
2 - Explore the free, well documented and excellent looking "snd"
editor from Stanford and configure Cecilia to work with it.
http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Software/snd/snd.html
Lots more reading and work to do. I think that once I have my
brains around all this, Cecilia will be a fine thing indeed!
Thanks Alexandre and Jean !!!
- Robin
- Robin Whittle rw@firstpr.com.au http://www.firstpr.com.au -
- Consumer advocacy in telecommun- -
- ications, especially privacy. -
- -
- First Principles Research and expression - music, -
- music industry, telecommunications -
- human factors in technology adoption. -
- -
- Real World Interfaces Hardware and software, especially -
- for music. -
- 11 Miller St. Heidelberg Heights 3081 Melbourne Australia -
- Ph +61-3-9459-2889 Fax +61-3-9458-1736 -
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Richard Wentk ,
Mara Helmuth , Judy Klein ,
David Slee ,
Algo-Comp ,
Brad Garton ,
Csound list ,
Daniel Oppenheim ,
Fractal Music List ,
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Woof
Subject: Java for Sound Synthesis
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 01:37:54 -0400
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I have just completed a few simple tests of the suitability of Java for
software sound synthesis. Results are encouraging.
The following table reports some basic results, which come from
implementing a rudimentary frequency modulation wavetable instrument, with
two interpolating oscillators, in Java, C++, and Csound, and using it to
synthesize a 60 second, 80 decibel tone at middle C in a 16-bit, 44,100 Hz
stereo WAV soundfile on a Pentium 166 MHz computer with 40 megabytes of RAM
and an enhanced IDE disk drive. For Java and C++ the computation time was
measured from just before seeking in the soundfile to begin writing sound,
to just after flushing the final buffer of sound to the disk. For Csound
the total execution time was measured, but the time required to load the
program and parse the orchestra and score are small in comparison to the
time required to write the soundfile. My version of Csound and my C++
program were both built using Microsoft Visual C++ version 5.0, optimizing
for speed on a "blend" of processor types, with inlining turned on, using
the single-threaded library. The Java program was made using Symantec
Visual Cafe version 1.0 and its just-in-time compiler, which is faster than
Microsoft's.
Language Seconds of computation per second of sound
Csound .230
C++ .242
Java .314
These results are highly suggestive, even if they do not yet reflect the
complexity of actual music production. I found that removing the soundfile
write (only) from the Java test cut its time in half. Note that Csound is
somewhat faster than the C++ test program, and about a third faster than
the Java test. Of course, Csound is faster if a higher control sample to
audio sample ratio is used (ksmps 100 = .152).
Preliminary indications are that for sound synthesis, Java with a
just-in-time compiler is about one third slower than optimized, compiled C
code. Yet Java has definite, and large, advantages. These include much
simpler and safer syntax, complete platform-independence, built-in
networking, and a built-in graphics toolkit. In my experience, and I have
written about a dozen Java programs by now, Java programming takes about
half as long as C++, mainly due to Java's simpler syntax and faster
compiler.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone else who has experience with
Java and sound synthesis. I will report any results I obtain with more
complex and realistic Java synthesis software.
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Richard Wentk ,
Mara Helmuth , Judy Klein ,
David Slee ,
Algo-Comp ,
Brad Garton ,
Csound list ,
Daniel Oppenheim ,
Fractal Music List ,
John Fitch ,
Jonathan Mackenzie ,
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Woof
Subject: Java for Sound Synthesis
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 01:37:54 -0400
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I have just completed a few simple tests of the suitability of Java for
software sound synthesis. Results are encouraging.
The following table reports some basic results, which come from
implementing a rudimentary frequency modulation wavetable instrument, with
two interpolating oscillators, in Java, C++, and Csound, and using it to
synthesize a 60 second, 80 decibel tone at middle C in a 16-bit, 44,100 Hz
stereo WAV soundfile on a Pentium 166 MHz computer with 40 megabytes of RAM
and an enhanced IDE disk drive. For Java and C++ the computation time was
measured from just before seeking in the soundfile to begin writing sound,
to just after flushing the final buffer of sound to the disk. For Csound
the total execution time was measured, but the time required to load the
program and parse the orchestra and score are small in comparison to the
time required to write the soundfile. My version of Csound and my C++
program were both built using Microsoft Visual C++ version 5.0, optimizing
for speed on a "blend" of processor types, with inlining turned on, using
the single-threaded library. The Java program was made using Symantec
Visual Cafe version 1.0 and its just-in-time compiler, which is faster than
Microsoft's.
Language Seconds of computation per second of sound
Csound .230
C++ .242
Java .314
These results are highly suggestive, even if they do not yet reflect the
complexity of actual music production. I found that removing the soundfile
write (only) from the Java test cut its time in half. Note that Csound is
somewhat faster than the C++ test program, and about a third faster than
the Java test. Of course, Csound is faster if a higher control sample to
audio sample ratio is used (ksmps 100 = .152).
Preliminary indications are that for sound synthesis, Java with a
just-in-time compiler is about one third slower than optimized, compiled C
code. Yet Java has definite, and large, advantages. These include much
simpler and safer syntax, complete platform-independence, built-in
networking, and a built-in graphics toolkit. In my experience, and I have
written about a dozen Java programs by now, Java programming takes about
half as long as C++, mainly due to Java's simpler syntax and faster
compiler.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone else who has experience with
Java and sound synthesis. I will report any results I obtain with more
complex and realistic Java synthesis software.
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From: Allen Adler
Message-Id: <199706090551.AAA04520@pulsar.cs.wku.edu>
Subject: Re; Sound apps are proliferating
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:51:35 -0500 (CDT)
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I just downloaded snd.tar.gz from stanford. I'm trying to
install it on a Sun Solaris 2.5.1. How do I tweak the makefile?
Allan Adler
adler@pulsar.cs.wku.edu
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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:39:17 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Nicola Bernardini
To: csound mailing list
Subject: Re: Cecilia, Linux, tcl/tk, and SLab
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On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, Dave Phillips wrote:
> Nicola Bernardini wrote:
>
> > 1) most of the accelerator keys do not work; the quit on the file
> > menu do not work (Cecilia just does not quit, you have to SIGTERM
> > it)
>
> Hmmm...I'm not at all sure why Quit won't work, it acts properly on my
> machine. That might be a question for Jean, but I'll research it too.
>
> What accelerator keys are you referring to ?
well does not work for quitting (but then not even quit by
menu works, so...); I've now tried all of them and they all work,
so that was a little hurried on my side
>
> > 2) if you set "./" on the modules-3 on the preferences, xcec won't
> > restart; you'll have to remove .celprefs to be able to restart it
>
> How is your "Use environment variables for directories" set in
> Preferences ?
the other ones set on $SFDIR properly; by the way, in the beginning
xcec did not even start because it was looking for a USER environment
variable which is not used on standard linux systems - the variable
LOGNAME is used (at least as far as I know). Quickly patching the variable
fixed the problem (file init.tcl - line 15). I even forgot about it.
At any rate, thanks Dave for spending time on this, and especially
thanks Jean and Alexandre for working out this software that really
promises to be a great tool. You deserve the prize.
Nicola
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicola Bernardini
Centro Tempo Reale
Via Pisana, 77
50143 Firenze
Tel.: ++3955/717270
Fax: ++3955/717712
E-mail: nicb@temporeale.softeam.it (faster)
Re graphics: A picture is worth 10K words -- but only those to describe
the picture. Hardly any sets of 10K words can be adequately described
with pictures.
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