| Pedro Batista wrote:
>
> I dont think it would be harder to encode FFT than it is to encode a wavelet
> instrument. Both cases use a convolution and perform the computation in
> place. Using the FFT/Wavelet code at Numerical Recipes (in case anyone
> missed it, its FREE online) its easy to port to csound.
(I read up on this stuff some time ago, but my weakness
in math probably causes some malapropisms anyway.)
Note that the Numerical Recipes code as it stands performs
octave-band analysis, that is, it will yield nine bands
of wavelet coefs in the range Nyquist freq - 40 Hz (if sr=44 kHz).
This is good for applications like denoising and compression,
but not generally for the kind of spectral manipulation that
computer musicians might desire - I think that would require at
least three bands per octave (and preferably variable bandwidth).
I hope someone who understands the math can adapt the code
however, so this need not be a serious objection.
I also found exactly one article about wavelets and music.
It's by Peter Meijer (author of the Java image/sound applet).
Basically, he contends that we should indeed have multi-resolution
analysis, but that it need not necessarily of the constant-Q kind
that wavelets use (where the analysis window width is exactly
proportional to the frequency). His conclusion is that variable-
windowed Fourier transforms might be at least as good as wavelets.
(Intuitively, I'd think that it seems good to have co/sines as
the base, because we know what to do with them, and what happens
when we manipulate them.)
But see for yourselves:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Peter_Meijer/wavelet.htm
(When checking back that the links still work, I noted a MA thesis
on the net, which deals with wavelets for electromusical purposes,
but this also only treats octave-band wavelets for denoising and
"spectral enhancement" of compressed audio:
http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~coreyc/thesis/thesis_html/title.html )
It might have been posted, but anyway here is the main entry point
for those who want to know more about wavelets:
http://www.amara.com/current/wavelet.html
Note that most articles you find on the net are either very general
or require a bit of maths.
Regards,
re
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 14:58:13 BST
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: csound 3.485 problem with floats?
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Message written at 21 Sep 1998 11:21:36 +0100
--- Copy of mail to bbattey@u.washington.edu ---
In-reply-to:
(bbattey@u.washington.edu)
References:
AIFF floats are now done with AIFC with a "compression" style for
floats. This is the code used in SoundHack and the Mills port. I am
willing to befieve that there are problems though as this code was
rather difficult (to me anyway). Do you still have problems?
==John ffitch
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:32:13 -0700
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Ben McAllister
Subject: Re: igauss not recognized by 3.485(mac)
In-Reply-To:
References:
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Hi,
Is this a binary of 3.485 you have for mac? Could you direct me to where
I can download it?
Ben
At 09:22 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>3.485 removed (almost) all opcodes starting with i/k/a in favour of
>generic: so igauss is now gauss, etc...
>
>dont have csound at the moment so cant double check this..
>
>
>>>kread is not recognized by
>
>
>-matt
>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Aaron Johnson wrote:
>
>> Csound 3.485 (mac) is not recognizing the *igauss* opcode I am using in my
>> .orc. The earlier version of Csound has no problem with it. Is this a
>> bug, an omission, or.....?
>>
>> And another thing, is their a manual for all available opcodes for 3.485
>> anywhere?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>
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From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
In-reply-to: <3604126E.B70B9473@dial.pipex.com> (message from Gareth Whittock
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Subject: Re: signal processing
BCC: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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Look at the guitar distortion orchestra from Mikelson. Some nice
sounds, and not too much processing power.
If you need a copy I still have it somewhere (on the laptop)
==John
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Look at the guitar distortion orchestra from Mikelson. Some nice
sounds, and not too much processing power.
If you need a copy I still have it somewhere (on the laptop)
==John
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:15:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Karpen
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: csound 3.485 problem with floats?
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This turned out to be a problem with our local version compiled
under Linux which I've fixed.
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> Message written at 21 Sep 1998 11:21:36 +0100
> --- Copy of mail to bbattey@u.washington.edu ---
> In-reply-to:
>
> (bbattey@u.washington.edu)
> References:
>
> AIFF floats are now done with AIFC with a "compression" style for
> floats. This is the code used in SoundHack and the Mills port. I am
> willing to befieve that there are problems though as this code was
> rather difficult (to me anyway). Do you still have problems?
> ==John ffitch
>
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:15:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Karpen
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: csound 3.485 problem with floats?
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This turned out to be a problem with our local version compiled
under Linux which I've fixed.
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> Message written at 21 Sep 1998 11:21:36 +0100
> --- Copy of mail to bbattey@u.washington.edu ---
> In-reply-to:
>
> (bbattey@u.washington.edu)
> References:
>
> AIFF floats are now done with AIFC with a "compression" style for
> floats. This is the code used in SoundHack and the Mills port. I am
> willing to befieve that there are problems though as this code was
> rather difficult (to me anyway). Do you still have problems?
> ==John ffitch
>
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Message-id: <12756766@donner.Dartmouth.EDU>
Date: 21 Sep 98 12:53:14 EDT
From: "Matt J. Ingalls"
Subject: Re: igauss not recognized by 3.485(mac)
To: benmca@sunhawk.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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the binary is located: ftp://mills.edu/ccm/csound.ppc
ps:
only a slight difference in a handful of files with ffitch's sources, which i
need to send off to john - once this is done i will put the codewarrior project
on the ftp as well
-matt
--- Ben McAllister wrote:
Hi,
Is this a binary of 3.485 you have for mac? Could you direct me to where
I can download it?
Ben
At 09:22 AM 9/16/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>3.485 removed (almost) all opcodes starting with i/k/a in favour of
>generic: so igauss is now gauss, etc...
>
>dont have csound at the moment so cant double check this..
>
>
>>>kread is not recognized by
>
>
>-matt
>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Aaron Johnson wrote:
>
>> Csound 3.485 (mac) is not recognizing the *igauss* opcode I am using in my
>> .orc. The earlier version of Csound has no problem with it. Is this a
>> bug, an omission, or.....?
>>
>> And another thing, is their a manual for all available opcodes for 3.485
>> anywhere?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>
--- end of quote ---
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:02:37 -0400
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Christian Guirreri
Subject: physcial modeling
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I'm wondering if anyone has made any physical modeling orchestras, similar
to those found in the Dodge/Jerse books (the new edition has a whole
chapter on it).
Christian Guirreri
cguirrer@runet.edu
ICQ 9318646
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From: Pedro Batista
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Message-Id: <0906438756/1837757462/1*@mailpac.pt>
Subject: Re: synthesizing with wavelet packets
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Re wrote,
>Note that the Numerical Recipes code as it stands performs
>octave-band analysis, that is, it will yield nine bands
>of wavelet coefs in the range Nyquist freq - 40 Hz (if sr=44 kHz).
>This is good for applications like denoising and compression,
>but not generally for the kind of spectral manipulation that
>computer musicians might desire - I think that would require at
>least three bands per octave (and preferably variable bandwidth).
Hum, I'm not quite sure I can follow... How do you come up to the "nine
bands
of wavelet coefs in the range Nyquist freq - 40 Hz (if sr=44 kHz)" ? I'm not
by the slightest chance an expert on this stuff, you know
As I see it, each successive aplication of the filters analyses data an
octave lower, and thought that was all there is to it, but I've never really
studyed the nr code, nor implemented it yet
>I also found exactly one article about wavelets and music.
>It's by Peter Meijer (author of the Java image/sound applet).
There are more articles around. Not too digestable, some of them, but there
is wickerhauser's original article, as well as some followups, even a GA
approach to find best wave-packets for synthesis (get'em all from
www.mathsoft.com/wavelets.html). And who doesnt need more data compression
and denoising in their music? :)
No, really, I think theres promissing ground for the future, altho I agree
some has to be perfected first, if there is to be a real useful musical
usage
>His conclusion is that variable-
>windowed Fourier transforms might be at least as good as wavelets.
>(Intuitively, I'd think that it seems good to have co/sines as
>the base, because we know what to do with them, and what happens
>when we manipulate them.)
I'm not defending one thing over the other. Its all a matter of what you
have, or dont. If there is a better method, I'm sure someone will use it,
but so far I have no knowledge of it. And as you say, the great advantage of
wavelets, over sines and cosines, is their compat localization in freq AND
in space
>Note that most articles you find on the net are either very general
>or require a bit of maths.
yep, I could use a math degree, or at least a couple o'brains more
pedro
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:55:25 -0700
From: Jim Stevenson's reader
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To: PBATISTA@colep.mailpac.pt, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: synthesizing with wavelet packets
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>Note that the Numerical Recipes code as it stands performs
>octave-band analysis, that is, it will yield nine bands
Numerical Recipes code? Is this a reference to the book:
Numerical Recipes in C? or some other publication?
thanx in advance
-Sean Nelson
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From: Koen Dejonghe
Subject: Re: C++Sound
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First of all, I would like to thank everybody who joined this thread.
I've learned a lot and I can now see that there is still a lot more to
learn.
I have been pondering over this problem a bit and I even made the
daring attempt to write a CSound orc/sco 'program' in a structured
way. I know that 'structured' and 'object-oriented' are not the same,
but I think that the step from CSound to OO must enivetably go via
something structured.
I took the Toot4 example from Richard Boulanger's "An Instrument
Design Tutorial", because it's simple and straightforward, and there
is something in there that could perhaps be re-used (the chorus).
I hope the structured version is clear enough, I took the liberty of
inventing a couple of new typedefs (audio, control, ftab), and I added
to the out () function 2 parameters: start and duration.
//
// instr 4 ; toot4.orc
// iamp = ampdb(p4) ; convert decibels to linear amp
// iscale = iamp * .333 ; scale the amp at initialization
// inote = cpspch(p5) ; convert "octave.pitch" to cps
// k1 linen iscale, p6, p3, p7 ; p4=amp
// a3 oscil k1, inote*.996, 1 ; p5=freq
// a2 oscil k1, inote*1.004, 1 ; p6=attack time
// a1 oscil k1, inote, 1 ; p7=release time
// a1 = a1 + a2 + a3
// out a1
// endin
//
// f1 0 4096 10 1 ; sine wave
//;instr start dur amp(p4) freq(p5) attack(p6) rel(p7)
// i4 0 1 75 8.04 .1 .7
// ...
//e
//Now in C-style CSound
ftab ftSine;
audio Chorus (control cSignal,
audio a1,
float fFreq)
{
float fNote = cpspch (fFreq);
audio a1 = oscil (cSignal, fNote, ftSine);
audio a2 = oscil (cSignal, fNote * .996, ftSine);
audio a3 = oscil (cSignal, fNote * 1.004, ftSine);
return (a1 + a2 + a3);
}
void Toot4 (float fStart,
float fDuration,
float fAmp,
float fFreq,
float fAttack,
float fRelease)
{
float fDb = ampdb (fAmp);
float fScale = fDb * .333;
control cEnvelope = linen (fScale, fAttack, fDuration, fRelease);
out (fStart, fDuration, Chorus (cEnvelope, fFreq));
}
main ()
{
InitCSound (16000, 1000, 1);
ftSine = gen (0, 4096, 10, 1);
Toot4 (0, 1, 75, 8.04, .1, .7);
...
}
---jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
> Message written at 17 Sep 1998 17:52:39 +0100
> --- Copy of mail to zuijlen@ibm.net ---
>
> The score language in Csound has evolved a little, with repeat
> sections, overlapping sections, and so on. If this is insufficient
> for a particular use I usually find the a C program is my next step.
> Flexible and adjustable and readily available on all my machines.
> ==John ffitch
>
==
Koen Dejonghe
QAD Service Line
Origin International Competences & Alliances
http://www.origin-it.com
+32 2 712 3668
_________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:21:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Koen Dejonghe
Subject: Re: C++Sound
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Cc: koen.dejonghe@be.origin-it.com
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First of all, I would like to thank everybody who joined this thread.
I've learned a lot and I can now see that there is still a lot more to
learn.
I have been pondering over this problem a bit and I even made the
daring attempt to write a CSound orc/sco 'program' in a structured
way. I know that 'structured' and 'object-oriented' are not the same,
but I think that the step from CSound to OO must enivetably go via
something structured.
I took the Toot4 example from Richard Boulanger's "An Instrument
Design Tutorial", because it's simple and straightforward, and there
is something in there that could perhaps be re-used (the chorus).
I hope the structured version is clear enough, I took the liberty of
inventing a couple of new typedefs (audio, control, ftab), and I added
to the out () function 2 parameters: start and duration.
//
// instr 4 ; toot4.orc
// iamp = ampdb(p4) ; convert decibels to linear amp
// iscale = iamp * .333 ; scale the amp at initialization
// inote = cpspch(p5) ; convert "octave.pitch" to cps
// k1 linen iscale, p6, p3, p7 ; p4=amp
// a3 oscil k1, inote*.996, 1 ; p5=freq
// a2 oscil k1, inote*1.004, 1 ; p6=attack time
// a1 oscil k1, inote, 1 ; p7=release time
// a1 = a1 + a2 + a3
// out a1
// endin
//
// f1 0 4096 10 1 ; sine wave
//;instr start dur amp(p4) freq(p5) attack(p6) rel(p7)
// i4 0 1 75 8.04 .1 .7
// ...
//e
//Now in C-style CSound
ftab ftSine;
audio Chorus (control cSignal,
audio a1,
float fFreq)
{
float fNote = cpspch (fFreq);
audio a1 = oscil (cSignal, fNote, ftSine);
audio a2 = oscil (cSignal, fNote * .996, ftSine);
audio a3 = oscil (cSignal, fNote * 1.004, ftSine);
return (a1 + a2 + a3);
}
void Toot4 (float fStart,
float fDuration,
float fAmp,
float fFreq,
float fAttack,
float fRelease)
{
float fDb = ampdb (fAmp);
float fScale = fDb * .333;
control cEnvelope = linen (fScale, fAttack, fDuration, fRelease);
out (fStart, fDuration, Chorus (cEnvelope, fFreq));
}
main ()
{
InitCSound (16000, 1000, 1);
ftSine = gen (0, 4096, 10, 1);
Toot4 (0, 1, 75, 8.04, .1, .7);
...
}
---jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
> Message written at 17 Sep 1998 17:52:39 +0100
> --- Copy of mail to zuijlen@ibm.net ---
>
> The score language in Csound has evolved a little, with repeat
> sections, overlapping sections, and so on. If this is insufficient
> for a particular use I usually find the a C program is my next step.
> Flexible and adjustable and readily available on all my machines.
> ==John ffitch
>
==
Koen Dejonghe
QAD Service Line
Origin International Competences & Alliances
http://www.origin-it.com
+32 2 712 3668
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Message-ID: <003b01bde5f1$a3e1b880$0300a8c0@apas.no>
From: roger k
To: csound ,
Jim Stevenson's reader
Subject: Re: synthesizing with wavelet packets
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:23:48 +0200
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>Numerical Recipes code? Is this a reference to the book:
> Numerical Recipes in C? or some other publication?
They should have code from the book freely available on the net.
But last time I tried the server was down.
I don't remember the address, but I did a search for
"Numerical Recipes"
roger k
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From: Pedro Batista
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: synthesizing with wavelet packets
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>>Note that the Numerical Recipes code as it stands performs
>>octave-band analysis, that is, it will yield nine bands
>Numerical Recipes code? Is this a reference to the book:
> Numerical Recipes in C? or some other publication?
> thanx in advance
> -Sean Nelson
yes it is, freely available in pdf and ps format from www.nr.com (follow the
liks, cant remember the exact address)
pedro |