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play_csound for web (ACCCI)

Date1998-05-15 13:36
FromBernhard Wagner
Subjectplay_csound for web (ACCCI)
I'm trying to install the "How to use Csound interactively via WWW" as shown in
the ACCCI:
http://mars.let.uva.nl/gather/accci/websound.html

There seems to be a problem with the comment lines in the example 
webtest.csound:
; ************************************************************************

since the shell script "play_csound" (for SGI) uses the construct:

   ...
   read line
   if test "`echo $line | cut -b 1-2`" = "sr"
   ...

   and

   ...
   echo $line >> $ORC_FILE
   ...

the comment lines with asterisks "*" (even any line containing asterisk, i.e.
multiplication!) will be expanded by the shell into the list of files in your
$HOME directory. If it is as cluttered as mine, the script will break.

My first attempt was to replace the comment lines
; ************************************************************************
by
; ########################################################################
This caused csound to crash with the message:

Csound Version 3.48 (Apr 15 1998)
orchname:  www.csound.orc
scorename: www.csound.sco

orch compiler:
error:  Unknown # option                     [ this line occured 36 times ]

error:  Unknown # option, line 8:            [ these 2 lines occured 33 times ]
ksmps= 100

Segmentation fault - core dumped             [ this line occured once ;-) ]

So when I call csound interactively:

csound ~/www.csound.* -d -A -m0 -odac

with the following www.csound.orc and www.csound.sco csound crashes:

; ########################################################################
; ACCCI:      WEBTEST.ORC
; synthesis:  short test tone to test Csound compilation via WWW
; coded:      jpg 8/95

sr = 8000
kr = 80
ksmps= 100
nchnls = 1

instr 1; #################################################################
iamp  = p4
ifq   = p5

a1    oscil    iamp, ifq, 11
out      a1
endin

; ########################################################################
; ACCCI:   WEBTEST.SCO
; coded:   jpg 8/95 


; GEN functions ##########################################################
; carrier
f11   0 2048 10 1                    ; 1 partial


; score ##################################################################

;     idur  iamp   ifq
i1  0   4   8000   440
e

It seems as if the comments in csound (starting with ";") don't seem to be
100% safe.

  Any suggestions?

I continued by fixing the play_csound script for SGI, so as not letting the
shell expand the asterisks by inserting
set -f
as its first statement. This disables file name generation.

Furthermore, Using Composer 4.04 I only managed to play webtest.csound when
using a html-file in the local file-system, the example
http://mars.let.uva.nl/gather/accci/webtest.csound
just displayed the file itself as ASCII-text.
My .mime.types & .mailcap modifications:

type=application/csound  \
desc="Csound for Web"  \
exts="csound"

application/csound;/home/theseus2/bwagner/CSOUND/ACCCI/play_csound < %s;

  Has anyone managed to install this properly?

Thank you
Bernard

  Bernhard Wagner, MultiMedia Laboratory               wagner@ifi.unizh.ch
  University of Zurich                               VOICE +41-1-635 45 69
  Inst.f.Informatik, Winterthurerstr. 190              FAX +41-1-635 68 09
  CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland                     http://listen.to/bernard





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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:18:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark T Vigorito 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Composing
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I'd suggest "Musical Composition : projects in ways and means" by Ellis B.
Kohs. As the title suggests, it uses a very practical project-oriented
approach - good for the beginning composer to get a handle on defining the
parameters for a piece and then realizing the composition.

Happy Writing!
Mark Vigorito
mtv@u.arizona.edu




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RIKEIMU wrote:
> 
> I am new to Csound and I recently downloaded the Csound program file and
> the Csound manual file.

Since you use MS mail, I take a wild guess you're on a PC machine.
In that case you could try the installation notes at
	http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/PCinstal.htm
See if they help.

Cheers,

	re



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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Qian Chen 
Subject: Re: Help with 2 questions please
To: Csound 
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> 2. (More obscure question) I looked attempting to write a instrument
> using the "shaker" opcode.  How would I know what gen routine to use
if
> none is listed?
IMHO, whenever I use a new opcode, I do not know how to give the
correct magnitude in the valid range of a parameter.  A lot of times,
I hope to find the info in the manual - but desparately failed.  For
example, I know 
     ar oscil 4000,440,1
will give me a sine wave audio if I use 
    f1 0 1024 10 1.  
But what about other opcodes?  Is there any guide for using them?  Any
ideas?  Could those who programmed the opcodes give the valid range? 
Just like "the valid range should be ...,  for best result, the
magnitude should be ..."

Happy Csounding.
==
Qian Chen

_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




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I use a good freeware text editor under Win95 called PFE. It
automatically recognizes the UNIX type text files under Win95 and show
them correctly (the Windowsnotepad cannot do this).

--
Gabriel Maldonado

http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm





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From: Larry Troxler 
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Wow, this csound list has got a lot of off-topic posts lately. I know, I
probably contribute to some of them. I hate to complain about this, and
I'm not, really, it's more of an observation. 

Should the name of this list be changed? What the new name would be, I'm
not sure. It is certainly *not* a Csound list any more. 
In fact, it seems to be not even limited to software synthesis.

This is not another complaint against c4tabs, in fact the "pencil"
discourse was very intriguing, and I'm glad the antiporp decided to
write in a conventional language this time.

But it has nothing to do with csound.

So what should be done with this list? Personally, most of the topics
discussed here are of interest to me. But less than half of the messages
are actually specific to csound. And i think that this may be true of
many, if not most, readers, judging by the lack of complaints about
non-csound posts. 

Should this list be somehow renamed to something more general? 

There are probably a lot of potential readers and contributers that are
left out because they think this is a csound list, which it is not.

Larry



=cw4t7abs wrote:
> 
> >pencil
> 
> It is possible to take a cannonball apart into finitely many pieces, and
> put those pieces together to





--  Larry Troxler --  lt@westnet.com  --  Patterson, NY USA  --





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To: Hans Mikelson 
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Subject: Re: Composing
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Hans Mikelson wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I think I'm beginning to move from the realm of sound experiments to the
> realm of sound composition so I suppose that it wouldn't hurt for me to
> learn something about composing.  There is a good web site with composing
> information at:
> 
> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/gems/0.htm
> 
> I thought the section on dramatic shape of a composition was good since with
> Csound you are often working with collections of sound rather than just
> musical notes.
> 
> Can anyone reccomend some other sites?
> 
> Bye,
> Hans Mikelson

I don't think you should be looking for web sites at this stage; rather,
look for a conventional (human) music composition or  theory tutor.
You're not going to learn about music theory and composition from a web
site!  Try calling some local music stores, etc, for recomendations. 

Larry

--  Larry Troxler --  lt@westnet.com  --  Patterson, NY USA  --




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I would recommend Harry Partch's 'Genesis of a Music', ISBN 0-306-80106-X

Cheers
Arne


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=cw4t7abs is an alien.



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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Larry Troxler 
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Subject: Re: Composing
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Hi,

Larry wrote:
> Try calling some local music stores,

Errmmm I am a bit skeptical about the quality of the talent available from
our local music stores...it's not a real big town.

I would consider taking a university course but they usually don't offer the
ones I want at times that I could attend.

Bye,
Hans Mikelson




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From: john Weeks 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: (CSound) newbie with Questions
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Greetings and Salutations,
My name is john Weeks.
I was recently working on a project trying to attach fractal graphics to 
musical compositions.  A professor told me to look into CSound.
I have downloaded and read about half of the CSound manual.
I'm on a 166pentium PC operating with Win95.
I've downloaded "Csound95" and Csounder.
I've got what may be an insane notion that Orchestra files can be 
compiled in a program that utilizes the values sent from a fractal 
iteration.  I primarily code in C or C++.

My questions are:
1.  Is there anything else that I need to start experimenting with 
CSound?
     There are quite a few "players" out there, what might be the best 
combination?

2.  In your experience is an "Orchestra creator" utilizing fractals a 
possibility or a fools errand?



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From: RIKEIMU 
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Subject: New to Csound, need help.
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:24:07 -0500
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I am new to Csound and I recently downloaded the Csound program file and
the Csound manual file.
When I attempted to open the files, I was asked what program I wanted to
use to open the files.
Please inform me what program I need in order to open the downloaded files.


Thank you.

Richard Abrams




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The Csound manual mentions ENVEXT.EXE as a utility for extracting 
an envelope from a sound file.  I can't find this file anywhere.  Nor 
on the ftp site, nor inside archives (nor in my bin directory).  Does 
anyone know where I am find this file?  

	Also, where and how does it store an extracted envelope?  Could I 
use the envelope within a function table or with an opcode? 

	Thanks.

--
David Vincelli 




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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: csound 
Subject: Re: New to Csound, need help.
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:08:25 -0500
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Hi,

Programs often consist of more than one file and possibly some directories.
They are often combined into a single file so that people do not have to
download each file individually.  The "zip" format is one method of doing
this.  As a bonus the files are "compressed" so that the combined file is
smaller than the separate files making for faster download times.  The
program which is used for zipping and unzipping is called PKZip and can be
found at:

http://www.pkware.com/pkzip_win.html

I'm not sure of the shareware restrictions on this program.

Bye,
Hans Mikelson




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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:28:53 -0400
From: Jean Piche 
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To: badrats@badrat.com, csound 
Subject: Re: realtime audio problems
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James Garfield wrote:
> 
> A big problem I've been having consistently is that realtime audio is very
> choppy when I try to play any score.  Generating a soundfile and playing it
> back is clean; it's just the realtime output that sounds like garbage.
> 
> I'm using Csound for PPC, version 0.3.1, along with the Perf fix (all
> downloaded from the Mills FTP site).  I've checked to make sure that the
> sampling rate is 44100 all around, but that doesn't seem to make a difference.
>  Changing the audio buffer size changes the rate of choppiness but does not
> eliminate it.
> 
> I've got a 604e machine (160 MHz) with Sound Manager 3.3, from recently
> installing QuickTime 3.0....but I was having these problems with QuickTime 2.5
> and the previous Sound Manager extension as well.  At one point I had
> something like Csound for PPC 0.2b and did not experience these problems.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing here, like some preferences that need to be
> reset or tweaked?  I feel like a weenie whenever I do things the old-fashioned
> way and just generate a soundfile.
> 

Choppiness can come from two obvious sources:

- the orchestra/score are too demanding on the machine and it cannot keep up.
- the buffers (software and hardware) are not of optimal size.

You know the answer for the first problem. For the buffers, it is important to
change both the soft and hard (on the PPC, good values seem to be -b1024 and
-B2048. on Unix -b likes a small value...)

-- 
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/



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Message-Id: 
From: David Boothe 
To: "'Rikeimu@worldnet.att.net'" , 
    csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: RE: New to Csound, need help.
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:33:33 -0500
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What platform and OS are you using? What files did you download?
-dB
 (David M. Boothe, Audio Director 
  Lyrick Studios, Dallas, TX)

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	RIKEIMU [SMTP:Rikeimu@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent:	May 15, 1998 18:24
> To:	csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> Subject:	New to Csound, need help.
> 
> I am new to Csound and I recently downloaded the Csound program file
> and
> the Csound manual file.
> When I attempted to open the files, I was asked what program I wanted
> to
> use to open the files.
> Please inform me what program I need in order to open the downloaded
> files.
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Richard Abrams
> 



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From: Jean Piche 
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RIKEIMU wrote:
> 
> I am new to Csound and I recently downloaded the Csound program file and
> the Csound manual file.
> When I attempted to open the files, I was asked what program I wanted to
> use to open the files.
> Please inform me what program I need in order to open the downloaded files.
> 


1- what platform are you using (in detail please, Hardware, Operating system
etc..) From your second sentence, I suspect you are using a Mac. In which case,
if you have not seen this question/dialog box before, you are in for an
extremely steep learning experience...
2- Which files did you download?
3- From where did you download these files?

Please do not assume everyone will know what you are talking about. Be as
specific as you can and help will be easier to give!

-- 
________________________________________________________
Jean Piche
Universite de Montreal
http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/



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To: Contribute Csound 
From: QATJD 
Subject: Re: Fractals (off-topic), what to do with this list?
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	Yes. Upon reviewing my csound mailbox, I think it's perfectly valid as a
csound resource. There is a certain amount of 'noise'; but it always stems
somehow from csound or DSP somehow. I consider someone like "=cw4tFabs" or
whatever a general nuisance, but far less bothersome than the counterpart
role on many other lists. Besides, there's always the Delete key. Or
Ctrl-D. Or whatever....
	And if it were no longer a csound list, there would be NO central csound
community for information central to the code itself and the latest
developments.

								

At 09:00 AM 5/16/98 -0500, Hans Mikelson wrote:
>Richard Dobson wrote:
>>Csound is the kernel underwriting all the posts to the list
>
>I agree with this.  I think the reason the list ranges so widely in topic
>matter and no one complains, is that Csounders have such wide interests and
>people can relate almost any topic to Csound one way or another.
>
>Hans Mikelson
>
>
>
>

	thank you for your bandwidth

	



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You need to include what platform you are using when you ask a question about
 setting up CSound, since it is available for every platform (basically) and
the setup will differ from machine to machine.
-- 
Mike Berry
mikeb@nmol.com
http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb





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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:14:01 -0500
To: Csound mailing list 
From: "Daniel W. Hosken" 
Subject: Re: Composing
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Trevor Wishart put out a book called "Audible Design" that might be
applicable. It was reviewed in the Computer Music Journal (vol. 20, no. 1).
I have not read it, and the two reviews in CMJ offer differing opinions on
the book's value (Miller Puckette's review gave it a general thumbs up).

Robert Morris' Composing with Pitch Classes does an admirable job of
including more than just pitch and rhythm parameters in an approach to
compositional design, but might be too tied to set-class/twelve-tone pitch
ideas for some tastes.

At 2:33 PM -0500 5/17/98, Michael A. Thompson wrote:
>IMHO--- I personally think that you should listen to EA music. Buy CD's
>(or how
>ever you get them) and listen to them. Go to concerts of EA music. I think you
>will learn more from one good CD or concert than a library full of books
>on this
>subject.
>I also believe that this applies to all forms of composition.

IMHO,
I agree that listening to existing works is extremely important to the
process of learning to compose (for EA works, check out the Electronic
Music Foundation for selections http://www.cdemusic.org/electronic.html).
However, I think that the optimal approach is to study examples in the
context of some pedagogical framework---in other words, a
book/tutor/college curriculum. The notion that listening is all you have to
do assumes that we have some innate mechanism for assimilating the
techniques (micro and macro) that we hear. While this is romantic (and
trendily anti-academic) I think it shortchanges the intellectual component
of art and leaves one without a strong conceptual base from which to make
compositional decisions. A pedagogical framework might seem limiting, but I
think that most good artists transcend their frameworks to some degree as
they mature. On the other hand, having no explicit framework means that
you're just relying on assumptions you've already unconsciously made, and
hence have no control over. Just my couple o' cents.

--Dan Hosken






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Cc: Javier Ruiz , 
    Csound list 
Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual?
References:  <355DA59A.860A544D@prodigy.net>
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I had the same problem under Windows. I use to open the HTML file in word and
re-save it as and msDOS file. It works ok.


> > 5) [MACINTOSH only] If you copy an example from the manual (using Explorer
> > or Navigator) and you paste it in SimpleText or BBEdit, the Csound never
> > likes it. It reports various errors. Any hint?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > Javier Ruiz
>
> --
> Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
> http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm






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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:30:17 +0100
From: Jamie Bullock 
Subject: Re: Composing
To: Csound List 
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While everyone's recommending books - I may as well add my old fave:

"New Music Composition" by David Cope

a brilliant general introduction to a broad range of C.20th works and
techniques, which gives the reader sufficient 'pointers' for further study
in whichever areas they find most interesting.

JamieB





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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:26:54 +0100
From: Richard Dobson 
Organization: Composers Desktop project
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Subject: Re: Composing
References: <01bd806f$ed376e40$76e167ce@hljmm>
	  
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His earlier book 'On Sonic Art' might be even more useful, if you can find it (may
need to contact Trevor directly  - I can help there if needbe) . Trevor's approach,
while thoroughly rigorous, is also simple, in the sense that he gives great thought
to the issue of communicating structure and relationships to the listener -
something which many composers prefer not to worry about too much! Hence the title
'Audible design', of course - though that book is less concerned with the
larger-scale issues of compositional design  and more concerned with small to
medium-scale transformations (it's also something of an extended manual for the CDP
system).

Re composing:  though there are historical precedents for composers entirely
finding their own way, it must still be a very difficult thing to do. Composing
does not normally require the body to be trained as playing or singing does, but
the best way to learn still appears to by the apprenticeship system. Do any USA
colleges give group 'classes' in composition? Beyond the legendary classes in
Europe, such as those of Messiaen (and even they were apparently mostly concerned
with analysis) , I only know of it in environments such as the Dartington
International Summer School (which does indeed run a course in electro-acoustic
composition).  The caveat is that probably all books and classes  teaching
composition presume a subscription to one or more recognized styles or 'schools',
for which a pedagogical canon is available.  It is still something of a moveable
feast in electro-acoustic music. But it would be useful to practise writing
counterpoint, harmonic progressions, variation form, etc. Steve Reich, Philip Glass
et al. will have ground through all that before looking outside the Western
tradition and going their own way.

Otherwise, I would suggest - choose a working composer who seems to be simpatico,
and offer yourself into some sort of  learning programme. A composer who is also a
gourmet would be a good choice! The other trick, if you play, is to join a
performance group. One can learn quite a lot about composition from the music
stand.

Richard Dobson

Daniel W. Hosken wrote:

> Trevor Wishart put out a book called "Audible Design" that might be
> applicable. It was reviewed in the Computer Music Journal (vol. 20, no. 1).
> I have not read it, and the two reviews in CMJ offer differing opinions on
> the book's value (Miller Puckette's review gave it a general thumbs up).
>






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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Matt J. Ingalls" 
To: James Garfield 
Cc: Csound 
Subject: Re: realtime audio problems
In-Reply-To: <355E52DF.28722964@badrat.com>
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> back is clean; it's just the realtime output that sounds like garbage.
> 
> I'm using Csound for PPC, version 0.3.1, along with the Perf fix (all
> downloaded from the Mills FTP site).  I've checked to make sure that the
> sampling rate is 44100 all around, but that doesn't seem to make a difference.
>  Changing the audio buffer size changes the rate of choppiness but does not
> eliminate it.
> 
> I've got a 604e machine (160 MHz) with Sound Manager 3.3, from recently
> installing QuickTime 3.0....but I was having these problems with QuickTime 2.5
> and the previous Sound Manager extension as well.  At one point I had
> something like Csound for PPC 0.2b and did not experience these problems.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing here, like some preferences that need to be
> reset or tweaked?  I feel like a weenie whenever I do things the old-fashioned
> way and just generate a soundfile.  
> 
> ---James
> 
> -- 
> James Garfield 
> BadRat Multimedia Productions 
> http://www.badrat.com
> 
> 




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To: Csound List 
From: =cw4t7abs 
Subject: Re: Com.posit.ng \\ pencil
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>While everyone's recommending - I may as well add my old fave:


127.0.0.1


>While everyone's recommending books - I may as well add my old fave:
>
>"New Music Composition" by David Cope

David Cope.s kode = n!sz
neural netverkx altzo.

delete key = pozbl !f knowlege = external!zd








Edge investigated a pencil of canonical curves of genus \6\ on a del Pezzo
quintic surface in a \5\-dimensional projective space
Maria Agnesi mastered many languages such as Latin, Greek and Hebrew at an
early age. At the age of \9\ she published a Latin discourse in defence of
higher education for women.

\1\0\1\0\
     \2\9\2\9\
\3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\


kode1.tzzt.





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From: Jim Stevenson 
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To: dlphilp@mail.bright.net, langhatm@rosevc.rose-hulman.edu
Subject: Re: linux sound editors
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Does anyone know of linux sound editors that are command driven?

Thanks.



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From: Richard Dobson 
Organization: Composers Desktop project
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To: Drew Skyfyre 
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Subject: Re: x!onz,pencil,etc.,etc.
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sure, but it understands re/mi/doh/doh/sol!

Richard Dobson

Drew Skyfyre wrote:

> =cw4t7abs is an alien.






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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:59:58 -0400
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: QATJD 
Subject: Realtime in NT - HOW?
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	I've tinkered and I've tinkered, but can't get a peep out of csound
realtime using the GUI in NT (ver 3.48). I saw a little blurb from (I
beleive) Rasmus saying 'basically' one needs to specify a large output
buffer. Is this the samples/hardware -B setting ? Or do I need somehow to
set -b as well?
	Should there be a switch somewhere telling csound to pipe out to hw rather
than to file? I omit an output SF name, and even check the 'no sound to
disk' setting, but still - a complete performance with no sound to disk or
anywhere for that matter.
	Any tips? Jean? Rasmus?
	I'm on a P6 233 with 96 megs of RAM and two soundcards. I should have no
dramatic perf. limitations. I've just got to be missing something.

	P.S. will realtime be documented (more) in future versions?

	Thanks a whole pile in advance all you magnanimous audio compatriots.

								pax  DQ

	thank you for your bandwidth

	



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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:40:29 -0600
To: Csound List 
From: =cw4t7abs 
Subject: x!onz
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
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He worked on the Theory of Errors and aimed to prove that
the arithmetic mean was better than a single observation.



\1\0\1\0\
     \2\9\2\9\
\3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
\5\6\5\6\
        \6\4\6\4\
\7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\
\9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\


kode1.tzzt.



\1\0\1\0\
     \2\9\2\9\
\3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
  \5\6\5\6\
        \6\4\6\4\
    \7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\
      \9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\




\1\0\1\0\
     \2\9\2\9\
 \3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
   \5\6\5\6\
        \6\4\6\4\
     \7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\
       \9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\




\1\0\1\0\
     \2\9\2\9\
\3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
   \5\6\5\6\
        \6\4\6\4\
   \7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\
       \9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\



\1\0\1\0\
     \2\9\2\9\
      \3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
   \5\6\5\6\
        \6\4\6\4\
         \7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\
       \9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\





         \1\0\1\0\
    \2\9\2\9\
 \3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
             \5\6\5\6\
        \6\4\6\4\
    \7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\
                 \9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\




   \1\0\1\0\
    \2\9\2\9\
     \3\8\3\8\
      \4\7\4\7\
segmentat]on v!ol.at!on -- k=F8re dump.d

                                                 |
                                     p r 0 d U k t  [=7F]-----| =D8 f =D8 =
=D8 =D8 3
                                                 |


                  __p u n k t p r o t o k o L _
         \7\3\7\3\
          \8\2\8\2\          data =3Dk]orrekt_-humanz =3D!nk]orrekt
           \9\1\9\1\
            \0\0\0\0\




pol!sz.
kodez.teczt.
hTTp://www.tezcat.com/~antiorp/7b%21ThrEaT.hTmL
kode1.[do tzo at ur oun konven!ensz]





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From: David Schuyeteneer 
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How can I let a parameter (of an oscil for example) evolve

by a math function in Csound ??   For example :  an oscil with a dry, flat tone
letting it sweep by a sine function...etc etc....

is it possible to let reverb time vary at k-rate (by sine function for example) ??

Anyone has done of these tricks ??

David.
    Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01860; 18 May 98 11:45 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa19248; 18 May 98 11:44 BST Received: (qmail 17869 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 14:04:54 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 14:04:54 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA04260); Sat, 16 May 1998 14:59:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 14:59:14 +0100 Received: from howl.werewolf.net [206.103.224.20] by hermes via SMTP (OAA09940); Sat, 16 May 1998 14:59:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from hljmm by howl.werewolf.net via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) for id IAA07026; Sat, 16 May 1998 08:59:07 -0500 From: Hans Mikelson To: Contribute Csound Subject: Re: Fractals (off-topic), what to do with this list? Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 09:00:04 -0500 Message-Id: <01bd80d2$ed31e700$30e167ce@hljmm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Richard Dobson wrote: >Csound is the kernel underwriting all the posts to the list I agree with this. I think the reason the list ranges so widely in topic matter and no one complains, is that Csounders have such wide interests and people can relate almost any topic to Csound one way or another. Hans Mikelson   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02565; 18 May 98 12:06 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21104; 18 May 98 12:06 BST Received: (qmail 12958 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 02:59:18 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 02:59:18 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA18744); Sun, 17 May 1998 03:55:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 03:54:44 +0100 Received: from relay1.mnsinc.com [206.55.3.25] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA09075); Sun, 17 May 1998 03:54:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from badrat.com (badrats.mnsinc.com [206.239.175.247]) by relay.mnsinc.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA28470 for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 22:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <355E52DF.28722964@badrat.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:00:47 -0400 From: James Garfield Reply-To: badrats@badrat.com Organization: BadRat Multimedia Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Csound Subject: realtime audio problems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk A big problem I've been having consistently is that realtime audio is very choppy when I try to play any score. Generating a soundfile and playing it back is clean; it's just the realtime output that sounds like garbage. I'm using Csound for PPC, version 0.3.1, along with the Perf fix (all downloaded from the Mills FTP site). I've checked to make sure that the sampling rate is 44100 all around, but that doesn't seem to make a difference. Changing the audio buffer size changes the rate of choppiness but does not eliminate it. I've got a 604e machine (160 MHz) with Sound Manager 3.3, from recently installing QuickTime 3.0....but I was having these problems with QuickTime 2.5 and the previous Sound Manager extension as well. At one point I had something like Csound for PPC 0.2b and did not experience these problems. Is there something I'm missing here, like some preferences that need to be reset or tweaked? I feel like a weenie whenever I do things the old-fashioned way and just generate a soundfile. ---James -- James Garfield BadRat Multimedia Productions http://www.badrat.com   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02659; 18 May 98 12:09 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21333; 18 May 98 12:09 BST Received: (qmail 25427 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 06:42:42 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 06:42:42 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (HAA27258); Sun, 17 May 1998 07:37:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 07:36:55 +0100 Received: from root@xochi.tezcat.com [204.128.247.12] by hermes via ESMTP (HAA24672); Sun, 17 May 1998 07:36:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from [204.248.80.120] (antiorp.tezcat.com [204.248.80.120]) by xochi.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id BAA05079 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 01:36:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199805170636.BAA05079@xochi.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:45:21 -0600 To: tribute Csound From: =cw4t7abs Subject: oblique posts Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Zeno of Elea was a philosopher, the pupil and friend of Parmenides. He gave four paradoxes which had a profound influence on the development of mathematics. The flavour of the paradoxes is given by the proof that motion is impossible. In order the traverse a line segment it is necessary to reach its midpoint. To do this one must reach the 1/4 point, to do this one must reach the 1/8 point and so on ad infinitum. Hence motion can never begin. The paradoxes were important in the development of the notion of infinitesimals.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02707; 18 May 98 12:12 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21677; 18 May 98 12:12 BST Received: (qmail 1623 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 11:12:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 May 1998 11:12:05 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA09275); Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 18 May 98 12:02:18 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (MAA08696); Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.99.25] (mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ybNgA-0000QO-00; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:02 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 May 98 12:02:02 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: sndwarp problem To: karpen@u.washington.edu, DBoothe@lyrick.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 17 May 1998 13:30:05 +0100 --- Copy of mail to DBoothe@lyrick.com --- In-reply-to: (message from David Boothe on Wed, 13 May 1998 18:43:22 -0500) References: Now I am confused. I cannot see a # character in your example, and it is that character which triggers the error message error: Unknown # option, line 14: The line number may be wrong in the distributed version. Do you have a # in a comment? That is supposed to work but may not. I would like the actual orc/sco you are using so I can deal with the problem. ==John ffitch > Thank you, Richard. That fixed it with Winsound 3.47. I downloaded > Winsound 3.481 in the meantime (thinking that might solve the problem), > and get the following compile-time errors (I don't know what they mean): > > error: Unknown # option, line 14: > irandw = p10 ;rand window size bw (in samps) > error: Unknown # option, line 15: > ioverlap = p11 ;dens of overlapping windows   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02729; 18 May 98 12:13 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21728; 18 May 98 12:13 BST Received: (qmail 1631 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 11:13:33 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 May 1998 11:13:33 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA05737); Mon, 18 May 1998 12:04:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 18 May 98 12:04:23 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (MAA20795); Mon, 18 May 1998 12:04:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.99.25] (mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ybNiO-0000Qy-00; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:04:20 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 May 98 12:04:21 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: play_csound for web (ACCCI) To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, jpgather@acsu.buffalo.edu Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 17 May 1998 17:03:08 +0100 --- Copy of mail to bwagner@ifi.unizh.ch --- In-reply-to: (message from Bernhard Wagner on Fri, 15 May 1998 14:36:20 +0200 (MDT)) References: There is obviously a problem with the # being seen inside a comment when it is supposed to only be active at the start of a line. Mea culpa. My problem. ==John ffitch   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02757; 18 May 98 12:14 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21775; 18 May 98 12:14 BST Received: (qmail 9718 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 11:14:54 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 May 1998 11:14:54 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA09195); Mon, 18 May 1998 12:02:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 18 May 98 12:01:58 +0100 Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via SMTP (MAA00965); Mon, 18 May 1998 12:01:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from omphalos.maths.bath.ac.uk (maths.Bath.AC.UK) [138.38.99.25] (mmdf) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ybNfy-0000QJ-00; Mon, 18 May 1998 12:01:50 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 May 98 12:01:50 BST From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Subject: Re: illegal opcode To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Message-Id: Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Message written at 17 May 1998 13:18:58 +0100 In-reply-to: <355A30D1.5289@hem.passagen.se> (message from rasmus ekman on Thu, 14 May 1998 01:46:25 +0200) References: <355A30D1.5289@hem.passagen.se> I was referring to the manual from MIT which is the one by Barry. It is that manual which lives on my shelf. Yes it was there, but as the spectral opcodes do the same task better, it was removed. ==John ffitch   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02771; 18 May 98 12:16 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21991; 18 May 98 12:16 BST Received: (qmail 18830 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 14:49:47 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 14:49:47 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA24901); Sat, 16 May 1998 15:45:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 15:44:43 +0100 Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.58.53] by hermes via ESMTP (PAA08517); Sat, 16 May 1998 15:44:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from prodigy.net (ppp-207.115.19.47.prodigy.net [207.115.19.47]) by pimout1-int.prodigy.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA57552; Sat, 16 May 1998 10:41:37 -0400 Message-Id: <355DA59A.860A544D@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:41:31 -0400 From: Carlton Wilkinson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Javier Ruiz , Csound list Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The copy function sticks in little "invisibles"--hidden characters. I usually just go through whatever I copy, deleting and reinserting every white space. But with BBEdit there is a function that will show you all the hidden characters. A few tries andyou'll get an eye for the silly ones that Csound doesn't like. Javier Ruiz wrote: > 5) [MACINTOSH only] If you copy an example from the manual (using Explorer > or Navigator) and you paste it in SimpleText or BBEdit, the Csound never > likes it. It reports various errors. Any hint? > > Thanks for your help. > > Javier Ruiz -- Carlton Joseph Wilkinson http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02878; 18 May 98 12:25 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa22573; 18 May 98 12:25 BST Received: (qmail 16798 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 21:48:00 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 21:48:00 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA02758); Sat, 16 May 1998 22:44:07 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 22:43:44 +0100 Received: from mail.infohouse.com [206.30.88.4] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA00819); Sat, 16 May 1998 22:43:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from [208.151.41.215] ([208.151.41.197]) by milhouse.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 141-39833U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA212; Sat, 16 May 1998 17:42:39 -0400 X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <355CFECC.2FAB137D@westnet.com> References: <01bd806f$ed376e40$76e167ce@hljmm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:45:36 -0500 To: Hans Mikelson , Larry Troxler , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork From: tolve Subject: Re: Composing Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk music theory and composition? don't pay much attention to that myself these days. just like to make noise. but maybe you might want to read a book or two. hated most of those studied in school. but am sure there are good books on just about every style and topic. know a few (and hundreds of awful ones) on jazz and, at the risk of flame, would suggest that they could even be useful to jump start a classical student. real utilitarian approach. perhaps because, in music geared towards improvisation, there is no time to debate for an entire class session exactly where the key changes. the first two quick reads will get your feet plenty wet. and for those of you interested in jazz, you might want to just stop there and listen to music. -perhaps the most important study technique for all styles. Improvising Jazz by Jerry Coker pub Prentice Hall (115 pgs) Composing for the Jazz Orchestra by William Russo pub University Chicago Press (a Phoenix Book) (90 pgs) -some of the notation a bit archaic but better in... Jazz Composition and Orchestration by William Russo pub University of Chicago Press 825 pgs great for that 4 tone line thickening progressive big band stuff. and since i hate all the other books i know, here are a few recommended to me long ago by a theory major with sloppy handwriting. Perspectives on Schoenberg & Stravinsky by Lowe & Buretz textbooks by Aldwell, Schacter (sp?) Voiceleading and Harmony, or maybe harmony and voiceleading vol 1 & 2. Beyond Orpheus by David Epstein MIT Press _?__ Theory by Peter Westercaard The Classic Style by Charles Rosen Counterpoint in Composition by Schacter - Joros? Perspectives in Music Theory edited by Ben Boretz and Edward Lowe. (would welcome corrected spellings, or additional info on any of the above) ok, i did use the following basic text in school. not too bad, though it seems the professor was always correcting it... Harmony by Walter Piston WW Norton & Company, New York. you could also obtain scores of actual compositions to look at. The Norton Scores an anthology for listening pub by Norton or call Carl Fisher in New York and request score of something that interests you: 212 677-1148 band orchestra chorus 212 677-0821 piano vocal instrumental just be sure not to actually follow any of the rules you learn. so you see, it has been clearly stated by some of the programmers on this list that studying programming is useless for understanding csound, from mathematicians that studying math is useless, and from musicians that music is useless. hmmm. anybody know any good books on french cooking? tolve >Hans Mikelson wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I think I'm beginning to move from the realm of sound experiments to the >> realm of sound composition so I suppose that it wouldn't hurt for me to >> learn something about composing. There is a good web site with composing >> information at: >> >> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/gems/0.htm >> >> I thought the section on dramatic shape of a composition was good since with >> Csound you are often working with collections of sound rather than just >> musical notes. >> >> Can anyone reccomend some other sites? >> >> Bye, >> Hans Mikelson > >I don't think you should be looking for web sites at this stage; rather, >look for a conventional (human) music composition or theory tutor. >You're not going to learn about music theory and composition from a web >site! Try calling some local music stores, etc, for recomendations. > >Larry > >-- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA --   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02940; 18 May 98 12:33 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23211; 18 May 98 12:33 BST Received: (qmail 28738 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 10:33:35 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 10:33:35 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA27204); Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 11:29:25 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81] by hermes via SMTP (LAA00585); Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from mail.btinternet.com [195.99.53.172] by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yb0gI-0006f5-00; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:28:38 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail and News for Macintosh - 1.1 (34) Subject: Resonance curves on filters From: Daniel Fattorini To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:28:38 +0100 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Dear Users, Does anyone know what the excact specifications are on the butterbp,lp,hp,br and port,tone reson filters. Iam just interested to know so that I can use them properly. Also is there thing that you can use as a parametric e.q. with the normal freq, q, and db controls. It seems to me that at present that you are limited to increments of 3db per filter. Cheers, Dan.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02952; 18 May 98 12:35 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23327; 18 May 98 12:35 BST Received: (qmail 13543 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 03:28:55 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 03:28:55 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA26481); Sun, 17 May 1998 04:25:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 04:24:51 +0100 Received: from ulysses.Stanford.EDU [36.49.0.124] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA02228); Sun, 17 May 1998 04:24:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from ccrma.stanford.edu (localhost.Stanford.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by ulysses.stanford.edu (980205.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA36589 for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 20:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <355E598A.8F94523B@ccrma.stanford.edu> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:29:14 -0700 From: Tobias Kunze X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5-BETA-1274425944 IP22) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Csound list Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: <355DA59A.860A544D@prodigy.net> <355DCD40.C629729C@intercom.es> <355DF965.D4FA6695@cableinet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Unless things have changed dramatically in the past years, there are 3 different ascii end-of-line terminations: UNIX: NEWLINE (0x0A, aka LINEFEED) MAC: RETURN (0x0D, aka CARRIAGE RETURN) DOS: RETURN - NEWLINE As a result, if you transfer a text file with unix linefeeds to a mac or a windows box, the software will treat it as a single-line file, with obvious consequneces for languages that base at least part of their syntax on "lines", like csound does (Opcodes have to be on one line and comments extends to the end of a line). The solution is to watch out and always transfer text files in a mode that tranlsates the end-of-line markers automatically, like ftp's ASCII mode. A simple no-brainer solution on all platforms is to open a wrongly transferred ascii file in your web browser (file://.t[e]xt) and then "save-as" it as whatever. There shouldn't be any "gremlins" in a csound file, anyway. Hope that helps, and sorry if i've stated the obvious. -Tobias ______________________________________________________________________ Tobias Kunze tkunze@ccrma.stanford.edu CCRMA, Stanford University http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~tkunze   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id ak02971; 18 May 98 12:36 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa01826; 18 May 98 8:29 BST Received: (qmail 23967 invoked from network); 15 May 1998 19:02:25 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 May 1998 19:02:25 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA16923); Fri, 15 May 1998 19:58:05 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 15 May 98 19:57:27 +0100 Received: from titan.mad.servicom.es [194.106.0.133] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA21585); Fri, 15 May 1998 19:57:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from [194.149.195.231] by titan.mad.servicom.es (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 158-43936U25000L25000S0) with ESMTP id AAA4790 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:57:26 +0200 X-Sender: x001vj00@pop.tfn.servicom.es Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:52:09 +0100 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: Javier Ruiz Subject: Errors/typos in manual? Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hola desde Espa=F1a, 1) it seems that the examples provided for GEN01 are wrong in the manual (3.48b1.HTML) 2) the order of parameters for voice opcode could be wrong. The manual says: a1 voice kamp, kfreq, kphoneme, kform, kvibf, kvamp, ifn, ivfn but when kvamp=3D0.5 it reports an error: invalid ftable no. 0.50000 3) [MACINTOSH only] Copy does not work in Perf 3.47. Maybe those nice guys at Mills want to add it. 4) Unfortunately, some of the new opcodes dont have any example. And maybe it would be a good idea to give a suggested range for _each_ parameter. 5) [MACINTOSH only] If you copy an example from the manual (using Explorer or Navigator) and you paste it in SimpleText or BBEdit, the Csound never likes it. It reports various errors. Any hint? Thanks for your help. Javier Ruiz   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id am02971; 18 May 98 12:36 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02024; 18 May 98 8:30 BST Received: (qmail 3065 invoked from network); 15 May 1998 22:47:36 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 May 1998 22:47:36 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA03337); Fri, 15 May 1998 23:44:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 15 May 98 23:44:03 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81] by hermes via SMTP (XAA00811); Fri, 15 May 1998 23:43:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from mail.btinternet.com [195.99.48.34] by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yaTC4-00066U-00; Fri, 15 May 1998 23:43:16 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail and News for Macintosh - 1.1 (34) Subject: Re: New to Csound, need help. From: Daniel Fattorini To: Rikeimu@worldnet.att.net, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:43:16 +0100 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I am not sure what platform you are on but if you are on a power mac it should be stuffit expander, but I think that is in the OS so it shouldn't happen like that. ---------- From: "RIKEIMU" To: Subject: New to Csound, need help. Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:24:07 -0500 I am new to Csound and I recently downloaded the Csound program file and the Csound manual file. When I attempted to open the files, I was asked what program I wanted to use to open the files. Please inform me what program I need in order to open the downloaded files. Thank you. Richard Abrams   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id az02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02507; 18 May 98 8:30 BST Received: (qmail 1239 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 00:03:45 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 May 1998 00:03:45 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA25664); Mon, 18 May 1998 01:01:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 18 May 98 01:00:52 +0100 Received: from 0@blackhole.dimensional.com [208.206.176.10] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA12160); Mon, 18 May 1998 01:00:45 +0100 (BST) Received: from flatland.dimensional.com (sendmail@flatland.dimensional.com [208.206.176.24]) by blackhole.dimensional.com (8.8.8/8.8.nospam) with ESMTP id SAA29707 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dimensional.com (p03.pm3c07.pm.dimcom.net [206.124.6.132]) by flatland.dimensional.com (8.8.8/8.8.nospam) with ESMTP id SAA06651 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 18:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <355F7AC4.2F702A0D@dimensional.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:03:17 -0600 From: Stuart Felenstein X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Help with 2 questions please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The good news is I'm finally sitting down and trying to code some orcs and scos, the bad news is that I maybe using this list to ask some questions :) (from time to time) Anyway.... 1. In the manual, where the sig mods and sig gens are described. There are two sections, one for "initialization" and another for "performance". What significance does seperating the parameters this way have? 2. (More obscure question) I looked attempting to write a instrument using the "shaker" opcode. How would I know what gen routine to use if none is listed? Much appreciation, Stuart stuartf@dimensional.com   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id bc02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02509; 18 May 98 8:30 BST Received: (qmail 18210 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 18:06:08 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 18:06:08 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA07061); Sun, 17 May 1998 19:00:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 18:59:36 +0100 Received: from mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.1] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA20000); Sun, 17 May 1998 18:59:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (0@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.41]) by mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA09890; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:59:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (remote80.server1.local.premium.dialup.unt.edu [129.120.52.80]) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA16836; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:59:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <355F3B80.82E9FE6B@jove.acs.unt.edu> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:33:21 -0500 From: "Michael A. Thompson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tolve , Csound mailing list Subject: Re: Composing References: <01bd806f$ed376e40$76e167ce@hljmm> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------56624B2C834865437D013282" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------56624B2C834865437D013282 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO--- I personally think that you should listen to EA music. Buy CD's (or how ever you get them) and listen to them. Go to concerts of EA music. I think you will learn more from one good CD or concert than a library full of books on this subject. I also believe that this applies to all forms of composition. Michael tolve wrote: > music theory and composition? don't pay much attention to that myself these > days. just like to make noise. but maybe you might want to read a book or > two. hated most of those studied in school. but am sure there are good > books on just about every style and topic. > > know a few (and hundreds of awful ones) on jazz and, at the risk of flame, > would suggest that they could even be useful to jump start a classical > student. real utilitarian approach. perhaps because, in music geared > towards improvisation, there is no time to debate for an entire class > session exactly where the key changes. the first two quick reads will get > your feet plenty wet. and for those of you interested in jazz, you might > want to just stop there and listen to music. -perhaps the most important > study technique for all styles. > > Improvising Jazz by Jerry Coker pub Prentice Hall (115 pgs) > > Composing for the Jazz Orchestra by William Russo pub University Chicago > Press (a Phoenix Book) (90 pgs) -some of the notation a bit archaic but > better in... > > Jazz Composition and Orchestration by William Russo pub University of > Chicago Press 825 pgs > great for that 4 tone line thickening progressive big band stuff. > > and since i hate all the other books i know, here are a few recommended to > me long ago by a theory major with sloppy handwriting. > > Perspectives on Schoenberg & Stravinsky by Lowe & Buretz > > textbooks by Aldwell, Schacter (sp?) > Voiceleading and Harmony, or maybe harmony and voiceleading vol 1 & 2. > > Beyond Orpheus by David Epstein MIT Press > > _?__ Theory by Peter Westercaard > > The Classic Style by Charles Rosen > > Counterpoint in Composition by Schacter - Joros? > > Perspectives in Music Theory edited by Ben Boretz and Edward Lowe. > > (would welcome corrected spellings, or additional info on any of the above) > > ok, i did use the following basic text in school. not too bad, though it > seems the professor was always correcting it... > > Harmony by Walter Piston WW Norton & Company, New York. > > you could also obtain scores of actual compositions to look at. > > The Norton Scores an anthology for listening pub by Norton > > or call Carl Fisher in New York and request score of something that > interests you: > 212 677-1148 band orchestra chorus > 212 677-0821 piano vocal instrumental > > just be sure not to actually follow any of the rules you learn. > > so you see, it has been clearly stated by some of the programmers on this > list that studying programming is useless for understanding csound, from > mathematicians that studying math is useless, and from musicians that music > is useless. > > hmmm. anybody know any good books on french cooking? > > tolve > > >Hans Mikelson wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> I think I'm beginning to move from the realm of sound experiments to the > >> realm of sound composition so I suppose that it wouldn't hurt for me to > >> learn something about composing. There is a good web site with composing > >> information at: > >> > >> http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields/gems/0.htm > >> > >> I thought the section on dramatic shape of a composition was good since with > >> Csound you are often working with collections of sound rather than just > >> musical notes. > >> > >> Can anyone reccomend some other sites? > >> > >> Bye, > >> Hans Mikelson > > > >I don't think you should be looking for web sites at this stage; rather, > >look for a conventional (human) music composition or theory tutor. > >You're not going to learn about music theory and composition from a web > >site! Try calling some local music stores, etc, for recomendations. > > > >Larry > > > >-- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- --------------56624B2C834865437D013282 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Michael Thompson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Michael Thompson n: Thompson;Michael org: University of North Texas adr: 105 Bonnie Brea Apt.B;;;Denton;Texas;76201;U.S.A. email;internet: mat0001@jove.acs.unt.edu title: Composer tel;work: (940)565-2382 tel;home: (940)382-2086 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------56624B2C834865437D013282--   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id be02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02542; 18 May 98 8:30 BST Received: (qmail 2556 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 10:53:43 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 10:53:43 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA04159); Sun, 17 May 1998 11:50:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 11:49:38 +0100 Received: from [193.121.99.70] by hermes via ESMTP (LAA21333); Sun, 17 May 1998 11:49:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from pavell.com ([193.190.88.183]) by hurricane.netgate.be (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-32575U60) with ESMTP id AAA291 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:54:09 +0200 Message-Id: <355EC088.C15338D4@pavell.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:48:41 +0200 From: David Schuyeteneer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Csound List Subject: [Fwd: Resonance curves on filters] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------75E8D8F580438BDE1B3F9C9A" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------75E8D8F580438BDE1B3F9C9A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Download Cooledit Pro, a mighty sample editor with *lots* of functions to manipulate
samples.....also there's a very good "Scientific Filter" section with butterfilters etc all
with controls and and visual response curves ! It helped me a lot to get the intuitive feel
for using filters etc in Csound without having the visual response.

CoolPro is great to do a last optimise of sounds made by Csound like
removing unaudible rumble (0-40Hz) to free up amplitude space for normalization.

I prefer the non-creative stuff (like optimising, calibrating and balancing) doing in
a very visual environment like CoolEdit Pro or SoundForge.
 
 

David.
  --------------75E8D8F580438BDE1B3F9C9A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from exeter.ac.uk ([144.173.6.14]) by hurricane.netgate.be (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-32575U60) with ESMTP id AAA295 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:37:56 +0200 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA13293); Sun, 17 May 1998 11:33:08 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 11:29:25 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81] by hermes via SMTP (LAA00585); Sun, 17 May 1998 11:29:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from mail.btinternet.com [195.99.53.172] by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 1.70 #1) id 0yb0gI-0006f5-00; Sun, 17 May 1998 11:28:38 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail and News for Macintosh - 1.1 (34) Subject: Resonance curves on filters From: Daniel Fattorini To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 11:28:38 +0100 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Dear Users, Does anyone know what the excact specifications are on the butterbp,lp,hp,br and port,tone reson filters. Iam just interested to know so that I can use them properly. Also is there thing that you can use as a parametric e.q. with the normal freq, q, and db controls. It seems to me that at present that you are limited to increments of 3db per filter. Cheers, Dan. --------------75E8D8F580438BDE1B3F9C9A--   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id bn02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02793; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 17853 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 07:56:27 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 07:56:28 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA16809); Sat, 16 May 1998 08:52:52 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 08:52:33 +0100 Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (IAA18798); Sat, 16 May 1998 08:52:27 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 17791 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 07:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.142) by jaguars with SMTP; 16 May 1998 07:45:27 -0000 Message-Id: <355D4506.68E85C95@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:49:26 +0100 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Wow! Is that true? No 32Khz srate? Surely any sampling rate is safe when simply written to disk? makes me glad I use a PC.. :-) Richard Dobson Kevin Gallagher wrote: > On Macintosh at least (haven't tried on PC yet) the sample rate must be > evenly divisible by 44100, in other words only 44100, 22050, and 11025 > will work. I know the tutorial at the beginning of the manual (or at > least the version I have) specifies 20000 as sr, and that will crash you. > >   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id bs02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02943; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 23478 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 01:50:19 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 01:50:19 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA12442); Sun, 17 May 1998 02:46:18 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 02:45:56 +0100 Received: from portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA14189); Sun, 17 May 1998 02:45:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from nmol.com (nmol.com [206.162.11.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05409 for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 21:48:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Routed: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:52:16 -0500 X-Tcp-Identity: Mikeb Received: from nmol.com [206.162.11.153] by nmol.com with smtp id BDCEAIDB ; Sat, 16 May 1998 19:36:08 -0500 Message-Id: <355E3E9A.F5EE0500@nmol.com> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:34:20 -0600 From: Mike Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: <355D4506.68E85C95@cableinet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On all PowerMacs 44.1kHz is the native sample rate of the default sound card. Any other sample rate will be interpolated in some manner or other. CSound should not be crashing with other sampling rates, though for anything you try in real-time you should definitely use 44.1 or an even multiple (for speed issues). There should be no problem writing any sample rate file. -- Mike Berry mikeb@nmol.com http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id bt02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa02961; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 15961 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 06:24:29 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 06:24:29 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (HAA12890); Sat, 16 May 1998 07:20:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 07:19:47 +0100 Received: from darius.concentric.net [207.155.184.79] by hermes via ESMTP (HAA05586); Sat, 16 May 1998 07:19:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from newman.concentric.net (newman.concentric.net [207.155.184.71]) by darius.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/04/23 5.10)) id CAA06393; Sat, 16 May 1998 02:19:45 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from 206.173.239.250 (ts005d46.lax-ca.concentric.net [206.173.239.250]) by newman.concentric.net (8.8.8) id CAA13867; Sat, 16 May 1998 02:19:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <355D31EF.5129@concentric.net> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 23:28:00 -0700 From: David Meckstroth Reply-To: dmeckstr@concentric.net Organization: ttp://livepage.apple.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Javier Ruiz Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I've had problems with text files that I've downloaded when they are originally in DOS or UNIX formats. In BBEdit you can save them as Mac files, which seems to solve the problems.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id ce02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03099; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 26307 invoked from network); 15 May 1998 19:55:03 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 15 May 1998 19:55:03 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA18052); Fri, 15 May 1998 20:50:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 15 May 98 20:50:32 +0100 Received: from portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA12577); Fri, 15 May 1998 20:50:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from nmol.com (nmol.com [206.162.11.2]) by portal.dx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05420 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 15:53:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Routed: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:56:50 -0500 X-Tcp-Identity: Mikeb Received: from nmol.com [206.162.11.162] by nmol.com with smtp id ANDGDFDF ; Fri, 15 May 1998 13:54:54 -0500 Message-Id: <355C9D20.9091C91A@nmol.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:53:04 -0600 From: Mike Berry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Javier Ruiz , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk For the HTML-to-Mac text issue, use the "Zap Gremlins" option in BBEdit to get rid of hidden characters. -- Mike Berry mikeb@nmol.com http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id cj02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03224; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 9207 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 01:37:00 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 01:37:00 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA04396); Sat, 16 May 1998 02:33:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 02:33:36 +0100 Received: from harfang.CC.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.102] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA12332); Sat, 16 May 1998 02:33:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.70]) by harfang.CC.UMontreal.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA07704; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA (mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.73]) by eole.ERE.UMontreal.CA (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17016; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ere.umontreal.ca (whisky-04.CC.UMontreal.CA [132.204.2.204]) by mistral.ERE.UMontreal.CA (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19727; Fri, 15 May 1998 21:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <355CEC4F.19ECC6F2@ere.umontreal.ca> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:30:55 -0400 From: Jean Piche X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Rikeimu@worldnet.att.net, csound Subject: Re: New to Csound, need help. References: <19980516004503.AAA7585@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk RIKEIMU wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Jean Piche > > To: Rikeimu@worldnet.att.net > > Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk > > Subject: Re: New to Csound, need help. > > Date: Friday, May 15, 1998 5:35 PM > > > > I am using a PC platform. > I downloaded the file csound_win(1).zip from, > ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/newest/. > I downloaded the file Csmanual_48b1_ps(1).zip from, > ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/. well, first off, you'll have to unzip the files (decompress them). Use a program called zip for that. -- ________________________________________________________ Jean Piche Universite de Montreal http://mistral.ere.umontreal.ca/~pichej http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/electro/CEC/   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id cl02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03249; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 20865 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 23:33:35 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 23:33:35 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA17949); Sun, 17 May 1998 00:29:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 00:28:51 +0100 Received: from bq2369@gos.oz.cc.utah.edu [155.99.2.3] by hermes via ESMTP (AAA17291); Sun, 17 May 1998 00:28:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (bq2369@localhost) by gos.oz.cc.utah.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA25029 for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 17:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 17:28:45 -0600 (MDT) From: bruce quaglia X-Sender: bq2369@gos To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Composing In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Sat, 16 May 1998, tolve wrote: > Perspectives on Schoenberg & Stravinsky by Lowe & Buretz That's Edward Cone and Ben Boretz. > > textbooks by Aldwell, Schacter (sp?) > Voiceleading and Harmony, or maybe harmony and voiceleading vol 1 & 2. Harmony and Voiceleading, (now in one larger volume); Aldwell & Schacter. > Beyond Orpheus by David Epstein MIT Press Yes. > _?__ Theory by Peter Westercaard Tonal Theory. Peter Westergaard. > The Classic Style by Charles Rosen Classical Style. > Counterpoint in Composition by Schacter - Joros? Counterpoint in Composition by Salzer and Schacter. > Perspectives in Music Theory edited by Ben Boretz and Edward Lowe. again, it's Cone and Boretz. > (would welcome corrected spellings, or additional info on any of the above) You got it. > ok, i did use the following basic text in school. not too bad, though it > seems the professor was always correcting it... > > Harmony by Walter Piston WW Norton & Company, New York. That's why your prof was alway correcting it, Piston's Harmony is very outdated, inaccuarate (my modern standards) and generally looked upon with disfavor. > you could also obtain scores of actual compositions to look at. A very good idea. > just be sure not to actually follow any of the rules you learn. A naive view to be sure. "Rules" are usually stylistic constraints. If you're not writing tonal music then there's no reason to bother with any of its stylistic constaints, OTOH, you'll probably never write a coherrent phrase of any kind of music if you don't bother with tonal music and its restaints. The syntactical interaction of harmony, voice leading, phrasing and form reach their pinnacle in western tonal music and that's why disgruntled music students (apparently like Tolve) are usually asked to study it. > > so you see, it has been clearly stated by some of the programmers on this > list that studying programming is useless for understanding csound, from > mathematicians that studying math is useless, and from musicians that music > is useless. If you want to write music then studying music is hardly useless. If you want to "make noise" (Tolve's stated objective, not mine), then yes it probably is beside the point. There are certain compositional universals that for the most part transcend style and media...studying composition (with someone who has some actual mastery of these skills) may give you a leg up on writing music, with or without Csound. Bruce Quaglia   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id cp02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03362; 18 May 98 8:31 BST Received: (qmail 14218 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 20:47:18 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 20:47:18 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA13230); Sat, 16 May 1998 21:43:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 21:42:41 +0100 Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (VAA08806); Sat, 16 May 1998 21:42:26 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 16444 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 20:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.75) by jaguars with SMTP; 16 May 1998 20:35:31 -0000 Message-Id: <355DF965.D4FA6695@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:39:01 +0100 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Josep M Comajuncosas Cc: Carlton Wilkinson , Csound list Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? References: <355DA59A.860A544D@prodigy.net> <355DCD40.C629729C@intercom.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk There will be others with more complete and correct answers to this, but I do hit this problem from time to time when loading text files created on unix systems - each text editor I have handles things differently! Basically, the expected end-of-line code (on disk) is two hex values, <0D><0A>, but some files have an extra <0D> before these, which may get displayed as some arbitrary non-ASCII symbol. It causes Csound on the PC to report endless syntax errors. In itself, it would be relatively easy to fix, but I don't know what other weird codes are out there, that also need to be checked for. Richard Dobson Josep M Comajuncosas wrote: > I had the same problem under Windows. I use to open the HTML file in word and > re-save it as and msDOS file. It works ok. > > > > 5) [MACINTOSH only] If you copy an example from the manual (using Explorer > > > or Navigator) and you paste it in SimpleText or BBEdit, the Csound never > > > likes it. It reports various errors. Any hint? > > > > > > Thanks for your help. > > > > > > Javier Ruiz > > > > -- > > Carlton Joseph Wilkinson > > http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id ct02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03560; 18 May 98 8:32 BST Received: (qmail 29703 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 08:51:35 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 08:51:35 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA22340); Sun, 17 May 1998 09:47:25 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 09:47:03 +0100 Received: from mb05.swip.net [193.12.122.209] by hermes via ESMTP (JAA19591); Sun, 17 May 1998 09:46:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from rasmus (dialup75-1-42.swipnet.se [130.244.75.42]) by mb05.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21455; Sun, 17 May 1998 10:46:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <355EA4D1.4CBD@hem.passagen.se> Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 10:50:31 +0200 From: rasmus ekman X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: David Vincelli Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: ENVEXT.EXE ? References: <199805162108.RAA23151@bigbang.Generation.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk David Vincelli wrote: > > The Csound manual mentions ENVEXT.EXE as a utility for extracting > an envelope from a sound file. I can't find this file anywhere. It used to be in csound_new.zip, but now seems not to. > Also, where and how does it store an extracted envelope? Could I > use the envelope within a function table or with an opcode? As a text file, in the format: time, value. You could have read the file with kread2 opcode if it had still been around (where did it go?), but that would be kind of silly, since the opcode rms can do the same task with no intermediate step. Of course, for realtime, perhaps kread would have been faster? Have an old version of envext in my Csound directory, so if you want it I could mail it, it's just a few kB. Regards, re   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id cx02971; 18 May 98 12:37 BST Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03710; 18 May 98 8:32 BST Received: (qmail 17641 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 07:51:28 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 07:51:28 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA10667); Sat, 16 May 1998 08:47:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 08:47:21 +0100 Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (IAA27268); Sat, 16 May 1998 08:47:15 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 17507 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 07:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.142) by jaguars with SMTP; 16 May 1998 07:40:14 -0000 Message-Id: <355D43CF.20CC0670@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:44:15 +0100 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Larry Troxler Cc: Contribute Csound Subject: Re: Fractals (off-topic), what to do with this list? References: <199805142125.QAA17240@xochi.tezcat.com> <355BA32C.28B109AC@westnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This does seem a bit of an exaggeration to me (pace the fact I have been contributing to the oblique posts myself!) - I see plenty of detailed Csound posts in the current crop. I also don't think its entirely fair to say 'it has nothing to do with Csound', because the posts are not typically about politics, sex or religion, but around issues of creativity, the nature of the art object, the past, present and future of the technology on which we depend, and so on - all very relevant, to me anyway. Our motivations in persevering in what can at times be an intractable and frustrating subject need frequent injections of 'ingredient X' - whatever each of us deems that to be - and that will inevitably find its way to the list, from time to time. I actually find this the great pleasure and richness of the list - I get a real sense of the personalities, enthusiasms and indeed prejudices who contribute, so that I do indeed have a real impression of the Csound 'community' itself. To echo a recent post, this is surely part of the ethnography of Csound. Csound is the kernel underwriting all the posts to the list. It is in any case impossible for anyone to scan all lists just in case the name Plato or Blaise crops up; I would like to think that those who are interested in and symapthetic towards such discussions will find their way here one way or another! Richard Dobson Larry Troxler wrote: > Wow, this csound list has got a lot of off-topic posts lately. I know, I > probably contribute to some of them. I hate to complain about this, and > I'm not, really, it's more of an observation. > > Should the name of this list be changed? What the new name would be, I'm > not sure. It is certainly *not* a Csound list any more. > In fact, it seems to be not even limited to software synthesis. > > This is not another complaint against c4tabs, in fact the "pencil" > discourse was very intriguing, and I'm glad the antiporp decided to > write in a conventional language this time. > > But it has nothing to do with csound. > > So what should be done with this list? Personally, most of the topics > discussed here are of interest to me. But less than half of the messages > are actually specific to csound. And i think that this may be true of > many, if not most, readers, judging by the lack of complaints about > non-csound posts. > > Should this list be somehow renamed to something more general? > > There are probably a lot of potential readers and contributers that are > left out because they think this is a csound list, which it is not. > > Larry   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03298; 18 May 98 12:39 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa23675; 18 May 98 12:39 BST Received: (qmail 13632 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 03:33:14 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 1998 03:33:14 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA22189); Sun, 17 May 1998 04:28:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sun, 17 May 98 04:27:47 +0100 Received: from howl.werewolf.net [206.103.224.20] by hermes via SMTP (EAA01394); Sun, 17 May 1998 04:27:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from hljmm by howl.werewolf.net via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) for id WAA23258; Sat, 16 May 1998 22:27:44 -0500 From: Hans Mikelson To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork Subject: Re: (CSound) newbie with Questions Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 22:28:38 -0500 Message-Id: <01bd8143$e1e1b760$1ae167ce@hljmm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hi, John Weeks wrote: >I was recently working on a project trying to attach fractal graphics to >musical compositions. A professor told me to look into CSound. >I have downloaded and read about half of the CSound manual. Not exactly a light read! >I've got what may be an insane notion that Orchestra files can be >compiled in a program that utilizes the values sent from a fractal >iteration. I primarily code in C or C++. I think what you are talking about is generating scores from a fractal program. This is a good approach. The other approach is to use the fractals as tone sources. For examples of the latter see my web page at: http://www.werewolf.net/~hljmm/csound/ For examples of the former (not in Csound) visit the Fractal Music Project home page at: http://www-ks.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/people/schulz/fmusic/ > >My questions are: >1. Is there anything else that I need to start experimenting with >CSound? Sounds like you already have a good imagination. You will probably want to look at some of the available examples to get you started. The "dream" examples are good. The Amsterdam collection is good too. I already mentioned my page. Also Dave Phillips has a good introduction. > There are quite a few "players" out there, what might be the best >combination? Players? Do you mean sound players? Try Cool Edit if you want more than what is built into your computer. >2. In your experience is an "Orchestra creator" utilizing fractals a >possibility or a fools errand? Absolutely not a fools errand. I did some work like this with midi years ago triggering midi events with different fractals like the Mandelbrot set. You probably will want to set up some constraints. My old program used to restrict the notes to chords or scales and then change chords or scales periodically. It was good at creating ambient textures although the music was not extremely interesting. Another approach would be to use fractals in granular synthesis instead of using random numbers. I recently did some experiments with this with a Perl program I wrote although I haven't come up with anything worth bragging about yet. If you want I can send it.   Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03333; 18 May 98 12:44 BST Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24039; 18 May 98 12:44 BST Received: (qmail 15905 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 00:42:38 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 16 May 1998 00:42:38 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA11684); Sat, 16 May 1998 01:39:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Sat, 16 May 98 01:39:28 +0100 Received: from kgallagh@tempest.ocis.temple.edu [155.247.166.120] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA02330); Sat, 16 May 1998 01:39:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (kgallagh@localhost) by tempest.ocis.temple.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA09162 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 20:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Gallagher To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Errors/typos in manual? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk On Fri, 15 May 1998, Javier Ruiz wrote: > Hola desde Espa=F1a, >=20 > 1) it seems that the examples provided for GEN01 are wrong in the manual > (3.48b1.HTML) >=20 > 2) the order of parameters for voice opcode could be wrong. >=20 > The manual says: >=20 > a1 voice kamp, kfreq, kphoneme, kform, kvibf, kvamp, ifn, ivfn >=20 > but when kvamp=3D0.5 it reports an error: invalid ftable no. 0.50000 >=20 > 3) [MACINTOSH only] Copy does not work in Perf 3.47. Maybe those nice guy= s > at Mills want to add it. >=20 > 4) Unfortunately, some of the new opcodes dont have any example. And mayb= e > it would be a good idea to give a suggested range for _each_ parameter. >=20 > 5) [MACINTOSH only] If you copy an example from the manual (using Explore= r > or Navigator) and you paste it in SimpleText or BBEdit, the Csound never > likes it. It reports various errors. Any hint? >=20 > Thanks for your help. >=20 >=20 > Javier Ruiz >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 On Macintosh at least (haven't tried on PC yet) the sample rate must be evenly divisible by 44100, in other words only 44100, 22050, and 11025 will work. I know the tutorial at the beginning of the manual (or at least the version I have) specifies 20000 as sr, and that will crash you. Kevin Gallagher, kgallagh@astro.temple.edu Web Address - http://astro.temple.edu/~kgallagh