| Antoine Lefebvre wrote:
>
> Can someone tell me the role of the important file. I mean not the
> opcode but the main part, parser, main...
Found my old notes, hope they're not too confused/erroneous.
main() (in Main.c) parses command line, opens input files, sorts
score etc. The last few lines of main() calls otran() (in Otran.c) and
musmon() (in Musmon.c).
otran() is top of orchestra parsing,
musmon() does the score playing or "performance" part.
otran() calls rdorchfile() (in Rdorc.c) to input the full orchestra
text, then it calls getoptext() (in Rdorc.c) to input single lines of
instrument code.
rdorchfile() does the macro collection and substitution, comment
filtering etc.
otran() checks syntax of Csound opcodes in the orchestra statements
that it gets from getoptext(), and then builds up a task list for each
instrument, ie the sequence of opcode calls that constitute the
instr's performance.
musmon() sets up realtime and/or file output, calls oload() (in Oload.c)
to initialise all opcodes (get ftables, set defaults etc), and then calls
playevents() (in Musmon.c), which does the actual performance.
playevents() gets all kinds of input: midi realtime, score events
from the sorted .sco file, score events started at realtime etc.
It calls insert() (in Insert.c) to put the instrument instances
into a playlist; a linked chain of EVTBLK structs.
playevents() counts down k-rate, and calls kperf() (in Insert.c).
kperf() goes through the task list of each active instrument in the
playlist, and makes the actual calls to the k- and a-rate opcode
functions used by each instrument.
The text of each instr...endin block in the orc file is stored
in structs: INSTRTXT, OPTXT etc. During performance INSDS and OPDS
structs hold the separate instrument instances. They are copied from
the instr template in INSTRTXT/OPTXT in insert().
If instr 7 is called five times it will thus exist in five individual
(or sequential) copies.
All these structs are declared in Cs.h. They contain pointers to
the instrument text, to each other and to the corresponding opcode
functions, so it is quite feasible even for a beginner like myself
to see what's going on by single-stepping through a Csound performance
in your favourite debugger.
All this stuff is (scantily, but still) commented, so you'll find
your way in the program flow. Changing stuff without breaking it
is trickier.
Have fun,
re
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From: rasmus ekman
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To: Csound list
Subject: off-topic: bb/intergalactic (Was: Re: "talkbox")
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several people wrote things like:
>
> The "talk-box" sound of the "Beastie Boys" is quite distinctive.
The vocal effect in Beastie Boys' song Intergalactic is
made with very short delay. Going on a comment somewhere on
Usenet I got something fairly similar with the following settings:
Around 95% feedback, and switch between say 10 and 12.5 msec
delay time to get the two different pitches (or perhaps
8.5 / 11 msec; only heard the song 1-2 times, so not sure about
the delay time).
There's probably more to it, but this seems a basic part of the effect.
re
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 14:06:48 +0100
From: rasmus ekman
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Erik Spjut wrote:
>
> lpreson and lpfreson interpolate between frames but unless kr=sr you'll get
> a buzz or noise at kr. I suspect that's your burble.
Huh? Isn't the burble a rather common side-effect of FFT processing:
It comes from cross-fading the analysis/resynthesis windows, when
the sine-waves in each frame (window) are faded up/out.
Standard FFT is old, primitive and grotty and should be replaced by
multi-band sine-wave analysis (not the wavelet sine packets used for
data reduction) right now. I remain amazed that maths-proficient
computer musicians refuse to shower themselves in glory by developing
some such highly useful tools!
(spectrum is a start though)
re
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From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
In-reply-to: <283AABB8FD0DD21187C200A0C995F5DE0ECE63@neptune.lyrick.com>
(message from David Boothe on Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:35:32 -0600)
Subject: Re: opcode information.
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I have a copy of the Csound manual which lives on top of teh printer
by my right hand when I am working (ie at home not here at U). It
says it is MIT Csound, and I am not sure where I got it. It could be
that Barry gave it to me. I do also have the same document as a Word
document on my portable. I guess this version is not generally
available... sorry if I misled.
RichardB: can you clarify teh current manual situation as I am
confused (as usual).
.... and I revised a Quck reference document at the weekend, which had
a number of errors. Not sure from whence that came either!
==John ff
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Subject: Re: Winhlp file
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It looks as if I had inadvertently protected the file
pub/dream/newest/Winhlp_for_csound_352.zip
which I have now undone. I think it is also in csound_win.zip -- it
is supposed to be!
==John
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The file pub/dream/documentation/mikelson.zip now exists
=John
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It looks as if I had inadvertently protected the file
pub/dream/newest/Winhlp_for_csound_352.zip
which I have now undone. I think it is also in csound_win.zip -- it
is supposed to be!
==John
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From: Michael Gogins
To: rasmus ekman ,
Antoine Lefebvre
Cc: Csound list
Subject: Re: source code
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Thanks for this most useful and informative summary.
-----Original Message-----
From: rasmus ekman
To: Antoine Lefebvre
Cc: Csound list
Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 7:58 AM
Subject: Re: source code
>Antoine Lefebvre wrote:
>>
>> Can someone tell me the role of the important file. I mean not the
>> opcode but the main part, parser, main...
>
>Found my old notes, hope they're not too confused/erroneous.
>
>main() (in Main.c) parses command line, opens input files, sorts
>score etc. The last few lines of main() calls otran() (in Otran.c) and
>musmon() (in Musmon.c).
>otran() is top of orchestra parsing,
>musmon() does the score playing or "performance" part.
>
>otran() calls rdorchfile() (in Rdorc.c) to input the full orchestra
>text, then it calls getoptext() (in Rdorc.c) to input single lines of
>instrument code.
>rdorchfile() does the macro collection and substitution, comment
>filtering etc.
>otran() checks syntax of Csound opcodes in the orchestra statements
>that it gets from getoptext(), and then builds up a task list for each
>instrument, ie the sequence of opcode calls that constitute the
>instr's performance.
>
>musmon() sets up realtime and/or file output, calls oload() (in Oload.c)
>to initialise all opcodes (get ftables, set defaults etc), and then calls
>playevents() (in Musmon.c), which does the actual performance.
>
>playevents() gets all kinds of input: midi realtime, score events
>from the sorted .sco file, score events started at realtime etc.
>It calls insert() (in Insert.c) to put the instrument instances
>into a playlist; a linked chain of EVTBLK structs.
>
>playevents() counts down k-rate, and calls kperf() (in Insert.c).
>kperf() goes through the task list of each active instrument in the
>playlist, and makes the actual calls to the k- and a-rate opcode
>functions used by each instrument.
>
>The text of each instr...endin block in the orc file is stored
>in structs: INSTRTXT, OPTXT etc. During performance INSDS and OPDS
>structs hold the separate instrument instances. They are copied from
>the instr template in INSTRTXT/OPTXT in insert().
>If instr 7 is called five times it will thus exist in five individual
>(or sequential) copies.
>
>All these structs are declared in Cs.h. They contain pointers to
>the instrument text, to each other and to the corresponding opcode
>functions, so it is quite feasible even for a beginner like myself
>to see what's going on by single-stepping through a Csound performance
>in your favourite debugger.
>
>All this stuff is (scantily, but still) commented, so you'll find
>your way in the program flow. Changing stuff without breaking it
>is trickier.
>
>Have fun,
>
> re
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Larry Troxler
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Subject: Re: Enough with the "if" argument - Csound is *supposed* to be ancient!
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I don't think Csound is actually public domain. I think the original
copyright is still in force. Correct me, Vercoe or ffitch, if I'm wrong!
As far as I can tell, what we're doing here is taking "freely available for
education or research" and stretching it wildly. The critical points are
selling music made with Csound and the redistribution of Csound sources.
As for efficiency, Csound is not an interpreter, it is a compiler. An
interpreter re-translates each line of source code each time that line is
executed. A compiler translates source code before execution, and then
executes each line in translated form. Csound translates the orc language
into "instrument templates" stored in memory before running them. I suppose
Csound is more like a pseudo-code compiler, but the pseudo-code is in a sort
of one-to-one relationship with the audio operations, due to the "assembler"
style syntax of the orc language, which I believe is why Csound is
efficient.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Troxler
To: Michael Gogins
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Enough with the "if" argument - Csound is *supposed* to be
ancient!
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Why do I use Csound? I could write a software synthesizer myself, or I'd
be
>> willing to pay up to several thousand dollars for a software synthesizer.
>>
>> I use it because I'd rather compose than program, and Csound can make
cool
>> sounds as it is; as long as I'm doing algorithmic synthesis and
composition
>> in the first place, it's got the most sounds and the largest community of
>> users and the biggest library of patches.
>>
>
>Yup, I hear you! Csound, by luck of the draw, got that critical mass
>going.
>At least it appears that way, judging purely based on the volume of mail
>on the Csound list as compared with the mail for other synthesis
>programs.
>
>> And in fact it's not inefficient.
>>
>> Earlier I said I dream about (a) fast SAOLC or (b) something like JSyn
only
>> with plugin opcodes. To this I would add (c) a reworked Csound with:
>>
>
>
>Ok, maybe you missed my point, or maybe it's just too late in the night
>for *me* to grok what you're saying. But when you talk about "plugin"
>opcodes ...
>
>All I was saying, is that Csound *interprets* the orch code, as opposed
>to generating code which it then calls. The approach I'm talking about
>would, I think, preclude the use of run-time-linked code, like "plugin
>opcodes". Think of a C-compiler, which generates specific machine code.
>Then think of the same thing, but compiling Csound orch code instead,
>and then running it for a given score. The latter is closes to what
>Common Lisp Music, for example, does. That's all I'm saying. I can't
>believe that, for example, realizing a DX7 algo in csound, would be
>anywhere near as fast as doing the same thing using CLM, which actually
>generates C-code based on your instrument definition, then compiles it,
>and calls it.
>
>>
>> Open Source/CVS build model.
>>
>
>Is Csound now public domain? The source code used to carry a copyright
>notice, to the effect that distribution of derivative works were
>prohibited without consent from MIT. Well, to be honest, I *know* this
>must have changed, but the version I downloaded from Bath just a couple
>of years ago, *still* had this notice! What gives?
>
>-- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA --
>
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The file pub/dream/documentation/mikelson.zip now exists
=John
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>I don't think Csound is actually public domain. I think the original
>copyright is still in force. Correct me, Vercoe or ffitch, if I'm wrong!
I'm neither of these gentlemen, but I recently had a conversation
with Barry on this issue. I'll try to explain it to the best
of my understanding. Disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, and not
employed by MIT's Office of Intellectual Property (thank heavens).
If you really want to push on the edges of the Csound license,
you should consult a lawyer and talk to MIT directly about it.
Csound is not in the public domain. The source code is provided
as a service to the community and is freely usable for personal,
educational, or research purposes. Thus, the extensions and
add-ons that have been developed are well within the spirit of
the Csound license, and the Media Lab encourages continued
development as a research and music-making tool.
What you *can't* do is embed public Csound or reuse code from
public Csound in a commercial product. The license does not
give you permission to do this. Thus, the Csound license is
more restrictive than GPL, which explicitly allows commercialization
as long as any extensions are also GPL'ed. The "derivative
products" clause means that MIT would also frown upon trying
to take a signficant chunk of the public Csound code and
use it to build some other sort of system, even if it weren't
for sale. But as long as it is still Csound, add-ons
and improvements are welcome.
Selling music or other sounds made with Csound is permissible.
Selling other tools that interoperate with Csound is also
permissible. The restrictions only apply to the Csound source
code itself.
The reason for restrictions on commercial application is that
certain Media Lab sponsors have given money to us in exchange
for exclusive commercial rights. If we allowed anyone else to
commercialize the Csound code, it would violate the contracts
that we signed with those sponsors.
Our SAOL implementation is released until a different
agreement -- we've placed that code in the public domain,
and you can do anything you want with it, including sell it
to your neighbors or re-use it in products. It's important
restrictions that we must unfortunately continue to apply
to Csound.
Best,
-- Eric
+-----------------+
| Eric Scheirer |A-7b5 D7b9|G-7 C7|Cb C-7b5 F7#9|Bb |B-7 E7|
|eds@media.mit.edu| < http://sound.media.mit.edu/~eds >
| 617 253 0112 |A A/G# F#-7 F#-/E|Eb-7b5 D7b5|Db|C7b5 B7b5|Bb|
+-----------------+
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To: jim.altieri@oberlin.edu, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
In-reply-to: <36D4E846.3A0FD752@agora.stm.it> (message from Gabriel Maldonado
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Subject: Re: core dumping and page faulting
References: <2.2.32.19990224223611.007153f8@mail.cc.oberlin.edu> <36D48A35.DC354B42@flash.net> <36D4E846.3A0FD752@agora.stm.it>
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And thanks to Gabriel strings in score will be available in Bath code
-- assuming I got the edits right! It is in my private sources now.
==John
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Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:04:35 -0300 (GRNLNDST)
From: Christian Lyra
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: if...
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> > Also , there is the cultural question - why C? Why not Basic, Lisp,
> > Pascal, Forth,Occam...
> I haven't yet seen the obvious ( semmantical ) reason yet!!
> its called CSound not (B)ASICsound (L)ispsound,... :)
Lispsound? look at nyquist....
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:58:47 -0800
From: Charles Baker
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Christian Lyra wrote:
>
> > > Also , there is the cultural question - why C? Why not Basic, Lisp,
> > > Pascal, Forth,Occam...
> > I haven't yet seen the obvious ( semmantical ) reason yet!!
> > its called CSound not (B)ASICsound (L)ispsound,... :)
>
> Lispsound? look at nyquist....
Or CommonLispMusic (oh, so cool..)
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:57:01 -0800
From: Charles Baker
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To: rasmus ekman ,
Csound List
Subject: Re: LPC - how do you make it work well?
References: <36D54AE8.4D1A@hem.passagen.se>
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rasmus ekman wrote:
> Erik Spjut wrote:
> >
> > lpreson and lpfreson interpolate between frames but unless kr=sr you'll get
> > a buzz or noise at kr. I suspect that's your burble.
>
> Huh? Isn't the burble a rather common side-effect of FFT processing:
> It comes from cross-fading the analysis/resynthesis windows, when
> the sine-waves in each frame (window) are faded up/out.
>
>
> Standard FFT is old, primitive and grotty and should be replaced by
> multi-band sine-wave analysis (not the wavelet sine packets used for
> data reduction) right now. I remain amazed that maths-proficient
> computer musicians refuse to shower themselves in glory by developing
> some such highly useful tools!
> (spectrum is a start though)
>
>
> re
First:
LPC (lpreson/lpfreson) != FFT. It is a filter matching technique.
Next:
>multi-band sine-wave analysis
= a good general description of FTT!?
Perhaps you are refering to the family of "multi-rate analysis", of which
"wavlet" analysis is a member.
And they are *all* prone to windowing artifacts *except* "pitch-synchronous"
'wavelet' analysis, which is great, but requires several passes, the first
determining the
raw pitch of the analysed file. Of course this doesn't work when you have a
polyphonic
sample to analyse....generally, you just can't get away from windowing
artifacts.
Lastly:
Erik is maybe correct, AFAIK, with the LPC "burble" effect. Using the
analysis type
that keeps analysis data in polar form, and then converts to actual coefficients
should help.
If all interpolation between filter frames is done in polar (descriptive) terms,
then converted,
rather than interpolating actual filter cooeffs., then the results are better.
Perhaps, tho, the burble is more to o with an unstable pitch track result? With
Paul Lansky's
LPC code, I *always* had to hand edit the pitchtrack values to end up with a
listenable result.
I had a UNIX cmdline utility to do this once...sorry, no Weendoze, but
*this* would be a great boon to Csound: a general purpose LPC analysis data
editor.
Heck, how about a gen. purpose *all* analysis data editor?
Gee, if I only had one of those tenure track job thingies, rather than being
thrown out into
the cold cruel world to make a living I think I could do that....
well, after I retire in ten years, maybe.
CharlieB
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 11:25:20 -0800
From: Erik Spjut
Subject: Re: LPC - how do you make it work well?
In-reply-to: <36D54AE8.4D1A@hem.passagen.se>
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Like Charlie said LPC != FFT. Without getting too technical or flaming too
much, FFTs are like all-zero (or FIR filters), LPC's are all-pole (or IIR)
filters, the exact reciprocal of the FFT method. With either method you
trade off frequency resolution and time resolution by block size and
overlap. All of the other analysis methods (such as wavelets or filter
banks) involve EXACTLY the same tradeoffs. In particle physics it's called
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The only change is where/how easily
the tradeoffs are made. I find LPC works well for some things, pvoc works
well for some things, adsyn works well for some things, but they can all be
made to produce garbage. We bathe ourselves in glory where we can.
At 2:06 PM +0100 2/25/99, rasmus ekman wrote:
>Erik Spjut wrote:
>>
>> lpreson and lpfreson interpolate between frames but unless kr=sr you'll get
>> a buzz or noise at kr. I suspect that's your burble.
>
>Huh? Isn't the burble a rather common side-effect of FFT processing:
>It comes from cross-fading the analysis/resynthesis windows, when
>the sine-waves in each frame (window) are faded up/out.
>
>
>Standard FFT is old, primitive and grotty and should be replaced by
>multi-band sine-wave analysis (not the wavelet sine packets used for
>data reduction) right now. I remain amazed that maths-proficient
>computer musicians refuse to shower themselves in glory by developing
>some such highly useful tools!
>(spectrum is a start though)
>
>
> re
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Spjut (spyoot, rhymes with cute) - Associate Professor of Engineering
and Associate Director for Engineering Computing, Center for Design Education
Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711-5990 USA
Erik_Spjut@hmc.edu Ph & Voice mail (909) 607-3890 Fax (909) 621-8967
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From: Erasmus Zipfel
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http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/phymod20.html
Sergey Batov wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for information about hardware devices
> (synthesizers or sound modules) based on principle
> of physical modelling. (Some names at least.)
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sergey Batov batov@glasnet.ru
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Eric Scheirer , Larry Troxler
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: The Csound license
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Thanks for the clarification. I had talked with Barry Vercoe myself about
this and gotten substantially the same answer, thought briefer. I do embed
Csound source code in my applications JCsound, AXCsound, and Silence, but
these are not commercial products and I do direct users to the MIT copyright
notice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Scheirer
To: Michael Gogins ; Larry Troxler
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, February 25, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: The Csound license
>>I don't think Csound is actually public domain. I think the original
>>copyright is still in force. Correct me, Vercoe or ffitch, if I'm wrong!
>
>I'm neither of these gentlemen, but I recently had a conversation
>with Barry on this issue. I'll try to explain it to the best
>of my understanding. Disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, and not
>employed by MIT's Office of Intellectual Property (thank heavens).
>If you really want to push on the edges of the Csound license,
>you should consult a lawyer and talk to MIT directly about it.
>
>Csound is not in the public domain. The source code is provided
>as a service to the community and is freely usable for personal,
>educational, or research purposes. Thus, the extensions and
>add-ons that have been developed are well within the spirit of
>the Csound license, and the Media Lab encourages continued
>development as a research and music-making tool.
>
>What you *can't* do is embed public Csound or reuse code from
>public Csound in a commercial product. The license does not
>give you permission to do this. Thus, the Csound license is
>more restrictive than GPL, which explicitly allows commercialization
>as long as any extensions are also GPL'ed. The "derivative
>products" clause means that MIT would also frown upon trying
>to take a signficant chunk of the public Csound code and
>use it to build some other sort of system, even if it weren't
>for sale. But as long as it is still Csound, add-ons
>and improvements are welcome.
>
>Selling music or other sounds made with Csound is permissible.
>Selling other tools that interoperate with Csound is also
>permissible. The restrictions only apply to the Csound source
>code itself.
>
>The reason for restrictions on commercial application is that
>certain Media Lab sponsors have given money to us in exchange
>for exclusive commercial rights. If we allowed anyone else to
>commercialize the Csound code, it would violate the contracts
>that we signed with those sponsors.
>
>Our SAOL implementation is released until a different
>agreement -- we've placed that code in the public domain,
>and you can do anything you want with it, including sell it
>to your neighbors or re-use it in products. It's important
>restrictions that we must unfortunately continue to apply
>to Csound.
>
>Best,
>
> -- Eric
>
>+-----------------+
>| Eric Scheirer |A-7b5 D7b9|G-7 C7|Cb C-7b5 F7#9|Bb |B-7 E7|
>|eds@media.mit.edu| < http://sound.media.mit.edu/~eds >
>| 617 253 0112 |A A/G# F#-7 F#-/E|Eb-7b5 D7b5|Db|C7b5 B7b5|Bb|
>+-----------------+
>
>
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id ; Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:37:47 -0600
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From: David Boothe
To: "Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: Version 3.52 pdf Manual Available
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:37:40 -0600
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Version 3.52 of the Csound Manual in pdf format (complete versions and
updates-only) is now available at:
http://web2.airmail.net/dboothe
Please read What's New for more information.
Enjoy.
-David.
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:42:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Shamus McConney
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: hrtfer problem
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I've been trying to get hrtfer to work on the mac port of 3.51 with little
luck. Here is the error I'm an getting:
INIT ERROR in instr 1: cannot load Sound Disk1:Desktop
Folder:csound/Cecilia Work:sadir:HRTFcompact
aLeft aRight hrtfer asig kaz kelev "HRTFcompact"
I've downloaded the compact archive form MIT's sight, placed it in my
sadir, and named the folder "HRTFcompact".
Thanks for any help,
Shamus McConney
mcconney@nwe.ufl.edu
http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~mcconney/
http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~mcconney/Pd+.html
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From: David Boothe
To: 'Shamus McConney'
Cc: "Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: RE: hrtfer problem
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 19:55:02 -0600
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Although I'm not intimately familiar with Mac, it sounds as if you've named
the folder HRTFCompact. That should be the file name. The folder name should
be whatever you have defined the analysis directory to be with SADIR.
Also, as a last resort, you could try putting HRTFCompact in the same
directory as the Csound program.
Hope this helps.
-David.
Shamus wrote:
> INIT ERROR in instr 1: cannot load Sound Disk1:Desktop
> Folder:csound/Cecilia Work:sadir:HRTFcompact
> aLeft aRight hrtfer asig kaz kelev "HRTFcompact"
>
> I've downloaded the compact archive form MIT's sight, placed it in my
> sadir, and named the folder "HRTFcompact".
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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:51:55 +0000
From: Larry Troxler
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Charles Baker wrote:
>
> Christian Lyra wrote:
>
> >
> > > > Also , there is the cultural question - why C? Why not Basic, Lisp,
> > > > Pascal, Forth,Occam...
> > > I haven't yet seen the obvious ( semmantical ) reason yet!!
> > > its called CSound not (B)ASICsound (L)ispsound,... :)
> >
> > Lispsound? look at nyquist....
>
> Or CommonLispMusic (oh, so cool..)
Well, yes, it's CLM that spurred me to make my comment about how Csound
doesn't truly *compile* the orchestra code. It seems like CLM, however,
does in fact do this, int the sense that it outputs a C source file
which codes the CLM instrument. So in a sense, unlike C-sound, it is
really a compiler - so that there is none of the run-time
pointer-dereferencing that Csound would presumably need.
The not-so-cool thing about CLM, of course, is that there is only a
handfull of unit generators, compared to the immense richness of them
that Csound has.
Larry
-- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA --
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From: Larry Troxler
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Eric Scheirer wrote:
> The "derivative
> products" clause means that MIT would also frown upon trying
> to take a signficant chunk of the public Csound code and
> use it to build some other sort of system, even if it weren't
> for sale. But as long as it is still Csound, add-ons
> and improvements are welcome.
>
Ok, thanks for clearing that up! I had read "derivative" as including
variant versions of Csound. That, together with the "no redistribution"
clause, made me think that technically, posting different version of
Csound would violate the license. Actually, regarding redistribution, I
remember as I'm typing this, that at one point somebody wanted to post
Csound on Compuserve, but couldn't do it because the license prohibited
redistribution. I remember now that we had quite a discussion about that
over on Compuserve. So maybe I *am* still confused. But I guess it's a
bit academic now, it seems like these days MIT is more relaxed, and
obviously don't care about people putting up their own versions of
Csound, irrespective of whether the license technically forbids it.
Larry
-- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA --
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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 03:52:44 +0100
From: rasmus ekman
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Subject: Re: LPC, FFT etc
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CB and ES both wrote:
>
> LPC != FFT.
Good! I short-circuited somehow and unthinkingly assumed that LPC is
in the windowed FFT family of tools, further I don't know any maths and
this shines brightly from all I'll say.
((ES said: "... buzz or noise at kr. I suspect that's your burble"
To me that seemed suspect; a noise at kr would usually be a zipper noise,
not a burble. And the underwater effect is very common when you've done
something to data in the spectral plane and then IFT-resynthesize it.))
That was wrong, I've not looked at LPC yet so shouldn't post about it.
Then I switched to slandering FFT in general.
The Heisenberg concept is quite simple (on a superficial level at least),
I haven't missed that particular point. So by "multi-band sine-wave analysis"
I didn't mean that we could magically dodge the time/pitch precision tradeoffs,
nor that we could magically avoid all kinds of analysis artifacts, I tried to
refer to multiresolution analysis methods.
Point in case, with standard short-time discrete FT, at sr=44100 and window
size=512 samples, we get only eleven pitch bands in the range 100-1000 Hz,
while 137 out of 255 pitch-bands are in the 10000-22050 Hz range. Ie, we get
octave-wide "precision" in the lowest pitch range, and smaller-than-cent
precision near the Nyquist frequency. It's usually quite ok to synthesize
a sound from 256 exponentially-spaced sines, but the harmonical pitch
distribution that DFT yields is so much less fun. And larger window sizes
make the output slurred (as the H-principle states), while we get even more
useless data about micro-pitches in the uppermost range of hearing.
Now there are newer analysis methods (called wavelets, though FT could be
seen as a case of wavelet too) replacing FFT in many places.
But for various reasons wavelets developed for data reduction seem less
useful to our (my) preferred musical applications.
What vexes me is that so far no musical applications have been developed
in this area. Ok, real-audio and mp3 compression exist and work pretty well.
But it would seem they've just picked some standard wavelet code and applied
it to soundfiles. I got the same result right away by running the free
Numerical Recipes wavelet code.
spectrum also exists, and hopefully also works pretty well. It does
multiresolution analysis to user-selected precision, but the output only
works with the spec* opcodes.
I'm not sure someone could bask in glory just by pilfering the spectrum
code, optimise it (if possible), and present it in an analysis/resyntheis
package (though this would be useful too), but it did (a year ago) look
to me as a lot more flexible (and still fast) tools could be created
using analysis functions with local support, downsampling schemes etc.
But then I'm not a mathematician.
Cheers,
re
References: Everything linked from the Introduction section of Amara's wavelet
page, and several papers from the other sections (note, 1 1/2 years ago, there's
probably much new stuff there, but they all say pretty much the same things
if you skip the Greek bits...)
http://www.amara.com/current/wavelet.html
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:17:58 -0800
From: Charles Baker
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Getting back to the bad LPC run that initilized this discussion:
The error I have had from bad LPC pitch tracking
(in the cmix implementation mostly, I'll confess) was very much
describable as a "burble"...it was caused by excessive
"octave switching" and other
instability in the Pitch analysis...
when I have used Csound (or other) LPC
succesfully, I have used tools
(P.Lansky's, from old cmix dist.) to
examine the pitch info & edit it....
try cutting out the lpreson/freson side
of the instrument, and listen to the pitch
of the source you're actually using.
(Dunno your instrument, so I'm just guessin')
Also try not using the pitch info from lpread...
just "compose" the source pitch.
This will give a less "life-like" speech effect
(if that's what you're doing),
but it will clearly show if the pitch data is
"wobbling" all over...which it often will do in LPC analysis.
Just trying to help.
CharlieB
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jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
> And thanks to Gabriel strings in score will be available in Bath code
> -- assuming I got the edits right! It is in my private sources now.
> ==John
Great! Thanks to little things like this, csound gradually but steadily
gets easier to actually use, even as the feature set grows.
--PW
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jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
> And thanks to Gabriel strings in score will be available in Bath code
> -- assuming I got the edits right! It is in my private sources now.
> ==John
Great! Thanks to little things like this, csound gradually but steadily
gets easier to actually use, even as the feature set grows.
--PW
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 20:43:30 -0800
From: Charles Baker
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Subject: Re: if.../ Common Lisp Music
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Larry Troxler wrote:
>
> The not-so-cool thing about CLM, of course, is that there is only a
> handfull of unit generators, compared to the immense richness of them
> that Csound has.
Well yes, but the difference is really one of approach. CLM is an audio
"toolkit"....
many of the Csound "unit generators" can and have been coded in CLM...
(all of Perry's C++ kit, FFT, granular algorithms, sndwarp is almost exactly
like an instrument that has shipped with CLM since near it's inception,
etc,etc,etc)
CLM and MSP do not provide one with the "immense richness" of synthesis
alogrithms
that Csound does. But they provide instead environments where the base tools
commonly
used to generate and process sound are embedded in powerful general purpose
programing
languages...in order to allow the utmost flexibility to the
composer/synthesist.
The trade-off is immediate power vs. control...in Csound, I can use several
different
granular approaches. But in CLM I can use any granular algorithm that has been
coded
*or* I can "roll my own" that works as I want it to, and I control it the way
I want to!
And it doesn't change the core of CLM,
and requires no fancy source control (no registry of "UGs" to maintain).
Yes, CLM is harder to learn, but it teaches you a great deal more about sound
synthesis/processing when you use it, because instead of having to use
someone's pre-packaged
synthesis algorithm (no matter how fine & most in Csound are *fine*!), you
roll your own,
and or adjust someone else's algorithm. if you want.
Please, I'm not flaming Csound or it's users: just plugging a related and good
product.
I'm just totally into MSP and CLM/CommonMusic these days (when I have time to
compose).
Chascun a son gout, eh, what?
CharlieB
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Message-Id:
From: Sergey Batov
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: physical modelling
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 08:20:38 +0300
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Thanks everybody for help and information
about physical modelling and hardware!
Regards,
Sergey Batov batov@glasnet.ru
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On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, rasmus ekman wrote:
> several people wrote things like:
> >
> > The "talk-box" sound of the "Beastie Boys" is quite distinctive.
>
> The vocal effect in Beastie Boys' song Intergalactic is
> made with very short delay. Going on a comment somewhere on
> Usenet I got something fairly similar with the following settings:
> Around 95% feedback, and switch between say 10 and 12.5 msec
> delay time to get the two different pitches (or perhaps
> 8.5 / 11 msec; only heard the song 1-2 times, so not sure about
> the delay time).
> There's probably more to it, but this seems a basic part of the effect.
>
> re
>
You mean comb filtering? Comb-filtering gets the same basic effect and
it's pretty simple to do in csound (comb opcode). I guess comb filtering
is essentially what your talking about, with short delay and all.
Kevin Gallager, kgallagh@astro.temple.edu
Web - http://astro.temple.edu/~kgallagh
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 22:20:19 -0800
From: Sean Costello
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To: Kevin Gallagher
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Subject: Re: off-topic: bb/intergalactic (Was: Re: "talkbox")
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Hi all:
I just got a very "Intergalactic" vocal sound today. I used the fog
opcode to process a sample (stored in a table). By setting the duration
of the sinusoid burst (kdur) to a size that is close to the size of 2
periods of the tone to be processed, you retain the formants of the
original sample, but with the pitch determined by the impulses that
trigger the bursts (xdens, or xfund in fof/fof2). This allows you to
have independent control over duration of the sound, pitch of the sound,
and the overall pitch of the formants.
Mind you, using such a simple implementation of pitch-synchronous
granular synthesis isn't perfect - without tweaking the sound, the
results are awfully robotic. In fact, they sound IDENTICAL to
"Intergalactic." Not quite as ringy as comb filtering, but with some of
that quality. The main thing that makes it sound robotic is that the
consonants have the same pitched quality as the vowels, which is not the
sound I want, but is very nice and robotic. My guess is that the
Beastie Boys used some sort of "formant-preserving" pitch shifting plug
in, and tweaked it out so that it didn't track the original pitch, but
instead only produced one pitch. It sounds identical, I tell ya.
Sean Costello
Kevin Gallagher wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Feb 1999, rasmus ekman wrote:
> > The vocal effect in Beastie Boys' song Intergalactic is
> > made with very short delay. Going on a comment somewhere on
> > Usenet I got something fairly similar with the following settings:
> > Around 95% feedback, and switch between say 10 and 12.5 msec
> > delay time to get the two different pitches (or perhaps
> > 8.5 / 11 msec; only heard the song 1-2 times, so not sure about
> > the delay time).
> > There's probably more to it, but this seems a basic part of the effect.
> >
> > re
> >
> You mean comb filtering? Comb-filtering gets the same basic effect and
> it's pretty simple to do in csound (comb opcode). I guess comb filtering
> is essentially what your talking about, with short delay and all.
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Date: Fri, 26 Feb 99 12:37:26 GMT
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: pset
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Message written at 26 Feb 1999 09:46:45 +0000
--- Copy of mail to rasmuse@hem.passagen.se ---
pset con1, con2, con3,...
Give preset values to array variables for later reference.
This unit defines and initialises numeric arrays at Orchestra
load-time. Although defined within an instrument it is not part of
its i-time or performance operation
Pset the pfield array (one one statement is allowed per instrument).
These values are available as i-time defauts. When an instrument is
triggered from MIDI it only gets p1 and p2 from the event, and
p3,p4,... will receive teh actual preset values.
Example:
instr 1
pset 0,0,3,4,5,6 ; pfield substitutes
a1 oscil 10000, 440, p6
....
(adapted from Csound manual v1.1 by Barry Vercoe)
==John ffitch
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From: Torsten Anders
To: Csound List
Subject: little wgpluck2 bug
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:30:48 +0100
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Hello,
just a little failure: the CS manual 3.51 says on wgpluck2:
The reflection at the bridge is controlled by the reflection coefficient krefl,
where 1 means total reflection and 0 is totally dead.
But the opcode behaves the opposite -see example.
Torsten Anders
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