| I just picked up Georgian Born's _Rationalizing Culture: IRCAM, Boulez, and
the Institutionalization of the Musical Avant-Garde_ (U. of Calif.,
95)remaindered for a mere US $5. At quick gloss, it looks to be a revealing
read. Any comments, realities I should keep in mind as I plow through it?
Grant.
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 13:16:19 +0200
From: Gabriel Maldonado
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To: Dew Drops
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Subject: Re: Repeat command in score (NOT section-wise)
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The score opcodes '{' and '}' have been introduced starting with the
version 2.6 of DirectCsound. So I suggest you to download the present
release (2.7).
The URL is:
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/download.htm
Where did you get the archive 'directInstall.zip'?
--
Gabriel Maldonado
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm
Dew Drops wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm a newbie to CSound and was trying to use the loop Gabriel Maldonado
> demonstrated, but haven't been able to figure it out (I'm using DirectCsound
> Version 2.5). This is my sco file:
>
> { 10 nn
>
> ;ins strt dur amp
> i2 $nn .25 1
>
> }
> e
>
> and I get this error:
> sread: illegal opcode {, sect 1 line 9
>
> What am I doing wrong ?
>
> Do I have to do something different to use DirectCsound as opposed to CSound
> ? I'm just using the csound.exe that came with the DirectInstall zip (there
> are no other exe's with it).
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To: GCovell@c-bridge.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
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where there more available?
----------------------you wrote:----
I just picked up Georgian Born's _Rationalizing Culture: IRCAM, Boulez, and
the Institutionalization of the Musical Avant-Garde_ (U. of Calif.,
95)remaindered for a mere US $5. At quick gloss, it looks to be a revealing
read. Any comments, realities I should keep in mind as I plow through it?
??????????????????????????????????????/////
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 13:36:56 -0700
From: Sean Costello
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To: "Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant"
CC: GCovell@c-bridge.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
References: <199905022018.NAA07500@eos.arc.nasa.gov>
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Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant wrote:
>
> where there more available?
I remember seeing copies of the IRCAM book at Half Price Books, a chain
that has several stores here in Seattle and on the West Coast. If you
have a Half Price Books near you, give it a try, as they often carry
these remaindered academic books. I purchased a copy of The Archaeology
of Music in Ancient China there (a fascinating book, documenting several
thousand years of bell design, lithophones, etc. in China).
Sean Costello
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From: Daniel Nass
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I've been messing around with LPANAL, and for some reason I keep getting an
error in the actual analysis process--"argument list too big". I tried an
lpc analysis on a bunch of different sound files, even using the default
values listed in the manual, and I still get this error. Any advice?
Thanks much,
Daniel Nass
******************************************************************
Daniel Nass http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/dnass/
"Wherever we are, what we hear is mostly noise. When we
ignore it, it disturbs us. When we listen to it, we find it fascinating."
John Cage (1961)
******************************************************************
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 17:45:47 -0400
From: Paul Winkler
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Subject: Reverb quest, again
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Hi all,
Sorry if this is a repeat, but I haven't seen the message yet on this
end, and I'm quite eager to get nice reverb happening on my machine--
I'm doing some volunteer sound design for a play that's opening in four
days, and I need to make some things sound very spacious!
I've been playing around with various csound reverbs I've found on the
list or on people's web pages. So far nothing I've found sounds as
smooth as I would like.
I haven't yet tried convolution -- that might be my next step -- but I'm
wondering if there are other methods that improve on the reverb and
reverb2 opcodes?
So far the best orcs I've found are Eric Lyon's rev1.orc, and Hans
Mikelson's gardverb.orc (specifically the small and medium rooms), but
even those have too many distinct echoes for my taste.
--Paul
P.S. I've also been working on an orc to generate subharmonics from any
input signal... it works but could be better... I'll post it when I
think it's really useable.
--
------------------- paul winkler --------------------
slinkP arts: music, sound, illustration, web design, etc.
zarmzarm@erols.com http://members.tripod.com/~slinkP
=========================================================
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From: Sean Costello
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To: Paul Winkler
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Subject: Re: Reverb quest, again
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Paul Winkler wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry if this is a repeat, but I haven't seen the message yet on this
> end, and I'm quite eager to get nice reverb happening on my machine--
> I'm doing some volunteer sound design for a play that's opening in four
> days, and I need to make some things sound very spacious!
>
> I've been playing around with various csound reverbs I've found on the
> list or on people's web pages. So far nothing I've found sounds as
> smooth as I would like.
Most of the reverb algorithms that I have seen are variations of
Schroeder's original algorithms from the 1960's. These were a great
innovation, but I have the feeling that most good commercial reverb
units use far different algorithms. Joe Dattorro has described a Lexicon
"plate" reverb algorithm in a recent issue of the Journal of the Audio
Engineering Society. This uses several allpass filters in a sort of
figure 8 feedback loop, with the output summed from various taps within
the allpass stages (something that the Csound alpass opcode can't do).
In addition, the delay lengths of some of the allpass stages are slowly
varying, which is also difficult to do in Csound.
You may wish to look into Feedback Delay Network (FDN) reverb
algorithms. These are essentially a variation of the comb filter stages
in the Schroeder algorithms, but with the output of each delay line
feeding back into the inputs of the other delay lines (the gain is
determined by a feedback matrix). This is apparently a way of getting
very smooth reverbs. Interestingly enough, most of these designs also
use slowly varying delay times, to avoid metallic resonances. Look for
papers on this by Julius Smith, Davide Rocchesso
(http://www.dei.unipd.it/english/csc/people/roc/), and a 1982 paper by
John Stautner and Miller Puckette, "Designing Multichannel
Reverberators," Computer Music Journal 3(2), (pp. 52-65.), that is
reprinted in The Music Machine, ed. Curtis Roads. Cambridge, The MIT
Press, 1989. (pp. 569-582.) . The Stauner/Puckette paper has Music 11
code for such a reverb.
Another option is the work with waveguides being done by Julius Smith at
CCRMA. This is somewhat related to the FDN stuff, but from more of a
physical modelling standpoint. There are several papers available on
Julius Smith's page at http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/
Hope this helps,
Sean Costello
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Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 01:29:02 +0000
From: Tobiah
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To: Csound List
Subject: Re: Reverb quest, again
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Paul Winkler wrote:
>
> I've been playing around with various csound reverbs I've found on the
> list or on people's web pages. So far nothing I've found sounds as
> smooth as I would like.
It is amazing to me how dry it is out there when it comes to reverb.
I have long been looking for a fully configurable command line reverb
filter that has that unmistakable realism that you are talking about.
If command line is not important to you however, that is, if you don't
need to be able to set up programs to run the reverb automatically, then
you might have a look at the Snd sound editor:
http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Software/snd/snd.html
It has a reverb feature that can be auditioned and configured
in real-time on a good machine, and then applied to the actual
sound data in memory. The sound is pretty believable.
Come to think of it, the DAP sound editor has some very impressive
dsp algorithms, including reverbs with more parameters then you
might know what to do with. The difference is that it is much
slower (this is a good thing!) so one must wait for some time to
hear the results, and then go back and tweak some more.
These two are for Linux, but if you deign to boot into that other
hard drive, then I can tell you about a hardware option. The
soundblaster live has an impressive set of dsp effects built into
the card, and the mixer has an option to let you record from the
wet output directly. It's like having a regular digital reverb box
without the analog in's and out's. Drivers for the card under
Linux are in the works, but I wouldn't bet on the full use of the
synth and dsp stuff.
Now that I re-read your message, I see that you may have meant csound
reverbs only. Oh well...
Toby
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Message-ID: <87E25BFE149AD21194CC00A0C999D9892268D2@mail2.c-bridge.com>
From: Grant Covell
To: "Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: minor diskin requests
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:28:28 -0400
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Perhaps these items have already been addressed in the most recent version,
but based upon experience in the MillsPPC (3.51), I'd like to see diskin
report useful errors when:
1) idur passes EOF of the source file, and
2) no kpitch is given.
Perhaps for the second item, diskin could assume 1. And for the first,
wraparound could be off.
Thanks,
Grant.
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:41:43 -0400
From: "Job M. van Zuijlen"
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Organization: electona
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To: Paul Winkler
CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Reverb quest, again
References: <372CC78B.4C2DCA45@erols.com>
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If you are willing to look outside Csound and don't need real-time, I
can recommend Cool Edit (www.syntrillium.com), which you can download as
shareware. Cool Edit includes a large number of sound processing
algorithms, including reverbs. The shareware version has the limitation
that you have to select at start-up which effect groups you want to use
for the session, but you can save the results (I think). Even the full
version is cheap ($50) and well worth it.
Job van Zuijlen
Paul Winkler wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Sorry if this is a repeat, but I haven't seen the message yet on this
> end, and I'm quite eager to get nice reverb happening on my machine--
> I'm doing some volunteer sound design for a play that's opening in four
> days, and I need to make some things sound very spacious!
>
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:54:52 -0400
From: "Job M. van Zuijlen"
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To: Paul Winkler , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re [2]: Reverb quest, again
References: <372CC78B.4C2DCA45@erols.com> <372CFED7.BD35D253@ibm.net>
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I forgot to mention that Cool Edit is a Windows program.
Job
"Job M. van Zuijlen" wrote:
>
> If you are willing to look outside Csound and don't need real-time, I
> can recommend Cool Edit (www.syntrillium.com), which you can download as
> shareware.
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From: "Job M. van Zuijlen"
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Subject: Re: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
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Also available at Amazon.com for $19.95 (two to three days). Still not
too bad. There is a review of the book on the web page. BTW, it is
Georgina Born (according to Amazon).
Job
"Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant" wrote:
>
> where there more available?
> ----------------------you wrote:----
>
> I just picked up Georgian Born's _Rationalizing Culture: IRCAM, Boulez, and
> the Institutionalization of the Musical Avant-Garde_ (U. of Calif.,
> 95)remaindered for a mere US $5. At quick gloss, it looks to be a revealing
> read. Any comments, realities I should keep in mind as I plow through it?
> ??????????????????????????????????????/////
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From: Grant Covell
To: "Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant" ,
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: RE: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:19:26 -0400
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Oh yes. There was a stack of around 8 or so in fine shape, without the black
mark on the bottom (!).
I'll be glad to send a few around to anyone that's keen on 'em (I'm in the
Cambridge, Massachusetts part of the world).
We can talk logistics off-list.
I posted orginally, just in case there were some folks who have
visited/worked at IRCAM and could possibly provide some comments.
Grant.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant
> [mailto:jim-ra@eos.arc.nasa.gov]
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 4:18 PM
> To: GCovell@c-bridge.com; csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
>
>
> where there more available?
> ----------------------you wrote:----
>
> I just picked up Georgian Born's _Rationalizing Culture:
> IRCAM, Boulez, and
> the Institutionalization of the Musical Avant-Garde_ (U. of Calif.,
> 95)remaindered for a mere US $5. At quick gloss, it looks to
> be a revealing
> read. Any comments, realities I should keep in mind as I plow
> through it?
> ??????????????????????????????????????/////
>
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From: Grant Covell
To: zuijlen@ibm.net, "Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: RE: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:46:35 -0400
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I have yet to post something without a crucial typo. Yes, it is Georgina
Born. Also, these remainders are paperback.
Thanks for the correction!
Grant.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Job M. van Zuijlen [mailto:zuijlen@ibm.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:06 PM
> To: Csound List
> Subject: Re: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
>
>
> Also available at Amazon.com for $19.95 (two to three days).
> Still not
> too bad. There is a review of the book on the web page. BTW, it is
> Georgina Born (according to Amazon).
>
> Job
>
> "Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant" wrote:
> >
> > where there more available?
> > ----------------------you wrote:----
> >
> > I just picked up Georgian Born's _Rationalizing Culture:
> IRCAM, Boulez, and
> > the Institutionalization of the Musical Avant-Garde_ (U. of Calif.,
> > 95)remaindered for a mere US $5. At quick gloss, it looks
> to be a revealing
> > read. Any comments, realities I should keep in mind as I
> plow through it?
> > ??????????????????????????????????????/////
>
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Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:56:24 -0400
From: Paul Winkler
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To: Tobiah
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Subject: Re: Reverb quest, again
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Tobiah wrote:
> It is amazing to me how dry it is out there when it comes to reverb.
> I have long been looking for a fully configurable command line reverb
> filter that has that unmistakable realism that you are talking about.
That would be pretty darn cool.
I remember there was a Cmix instrument ("place" or "space") or something
that sounded pretty decent and was pretty much a command-line tool ...
one of these days I'll have to check out Cmix again, it's a lot easier
to run than Csound if all you want to do is process a file.
> If command line is not important to you however, that is, if you don't
> need to be able to set up programs to run the reverb automatically, then
> you might have a look at the Snd sound editor:
I'm using Snd more and more these days, but somehow I hadn't noticed
that it came with reverb! It's like emacs in more ways than one --
there's a LOT of functionality in there, but it's not all right on the
surface. (I don't know how I missed that reverb slider, though.)
> Come to think of it, the DAP sound editor has some very impressive
> dsp algorithms, including reverbs with more parameters then you
> might know what to do with. The difference is that it is much
> slower (this is a good thing!)
Yeah, I've been using DAP as well. It's really nice, though there are
some basic interface design things that really bug me (all those damn
windows!) It has three reverb types -- Moorer, Schroeder, and Multi-Tap.
I think the Moorer sounds pretty good, but using it on a five-minute
file (which I want to do here) is enough to kill me. Maybe I should look
into the DAP source code and see if I understand anything. (I think DAP
treats everything internally as a double rather than a float, which is
probably why it's so slow?)
> Now that I re-read your message, I see that you may have meant csound
> reverbs only. Oh well...
I appreciate the help, especially pointing out the Snd features right
under my nose! Yeah, I -do- want a really good Csound reverb so I can do
fun things with a virtual effects bus without having to do a bunch of
gymnastics getting things into and out of different applications.
But what I wouldn't give to be able to type at the prompt:
reverb infile.wav outfile.wav
--with user-configurable defaults for everything, and then just make
aliases for your favorite settings...
Hell, that could be a Perl (or whatever) script creating and invoking
Csound orcs and sco's, if only I could get Csound to sound really good!
------------------- paul winkler --------------------
slinkP arts: music, sound, illustration, web design, etc.
zarmzarm@erols.com http://members.tripod.com/~slinkP
=========================================================
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Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:08:12 +1000
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Terry McDermott
Subject: error messages
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Is there a document which documents the meaning and possible causes of
error messages which are listed on the console in csound? also same
question for verbose messages & listings
Terry
Terry McDermott
Music Department
School of Arts & Media
Latrobe University
Bundoora, Victoria, 3083
Australia
email: T.McDermott@latrobe.edu.au
Telephone +61 3 9479 2167
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Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 10:46:34 +0100
From: Richard Dobson
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Subject: Re: Reverb quest, again
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I can't resist this golden opportunity...
I have recently added two commandline reverb programs to the CDP system.
One is a classic Schroeder (6 comb, 5 allpass), and the other is a
~simple~ romm-simulator type program using nested allpasses and feedback
loop. They are mono/stereo in, and up to 16 channels out. An auxiliary
program is available to generate early reflections given basic room
dimensions, position info, and reflectivity. You can easily generate
over 100 reflection taps, though this does push the processing time up
considerably.
The main 'configurable' aspect, apart from essential parameters such as
reverb time or feedback, predelay, LP filtering etc, is that you can
give both reverbs a custom breakpoint text file containing early
reflections. I have found that this is one of the most critical factors
in obtaining a musical and smooth reverb; something that seems to be
left out of most discussions of Csound reverbs.
The problem with providing full configurability is that there is so
much, potentially, to configure, down to the delay and gain tims times
of each comb or allpass (to say nothing of selecting different types of
comb and allpass!). Either one has a humungous commandline, or one has a
separate script file, which would probably need to be in a proper
language such as XML. There is then the question of the parameter
hierarchy - the ROOM SIZE' parameter will lead to a set of early
reflections, but you might want to specify those explicitly, so one set
of parameters over-rules another.
By which time I suppose you might as well be using Csound anyway....!
Richard Dobson
PS: a demo (Win9x/NT) of the CDP granular synthesis program 'GrainMill'
(which includes a graphic breakpoint editor, which might be of interest
to Csound users) is at:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masrwd/gminfopg.htm
In due course, it will be avaiable via the main CDP site too.
Paul Winkler wrote:
>
>
> But what I wouldn't give to be able to type at the prompt:
>
> reverb infile.wav outfile.wav
> --with user-configurable defaults for everything, and then just make
> aliases for your favorite settings...
>
--
Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page!
http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd
CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm
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Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:55:37 +0200
From: rasmus ekman
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To: Grant Covell
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Subject: Re: G. Born on IRCAM, Boulez, et al
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Grant Covell wrote:
>
> I posted orginally, just in case there were some folks who have
> visited/worked at IRCAM and could possibly provide some comments.
I visited IRCAM briefly last summer; I was shown around by, and talked
to an acquaintance who's been working (composing) there for a while
(half year or year). Very interesting though it only lasted a couple
of hours, since I'd read the book just the week(s) before.
It should be noted that much of what GB describes has changed
drastically since she did her field work in the mid-eighties.
Eg, the attitudes of the directors towards "small machines vs large
machines" have been reversed it seems (but then the machines have
changed too - or haven't they??).
Still I'd regard the book as an essential read for anyone interested
in (post-) modernism and/or electro-acoustic (institutional) music.
She provides brilliant and wide-ranging organization analysis of
an art institution, of the corporate and other connections to
technological development, and of the various social roles and
attitudes of people caught in the middle of it all.
((eew, my Engl. is even worse than usual in this post, well sorry,
haven't time to better it now))
Cheers,
re |