Re: Linear Prediction in Csound

Date	1999-03-15 13:29
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: Linear Prediction in Csound
	I suggest you use SDIF as this is more in keeping with the public-domain character of our work. I also believe it would be technically adequate. As an alternative, I suggest using Extensible Markup Language (tagged text files) as it is easier to code readers and writers for this type of format, and to use it from and for other applications. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Dobson To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound >I have to catch up on a lot of emails, as I have been away; but I have >amn immediate follow-up to this; > >in CDP we use WAVE and AIFF file formats to store pvoc analysis data - >each naturally respects the appropriate byte-order. For historical >reasons we use our own proprietary mechanism in the header for storing >relevant information, but this could easily be converted into a >converntional 'chunk' format. I agree that a generaic cross-platform >pvoc analysis format is needed - the question is whart format(s) to >adopt. > >I could for example define pvoc chunks for both WAVE and AIFF formats, >and have a common extension of .ANA for them 9the parsing code will need >to read the header to determine which format the file is in - we do this >in CDP and it works very well). > >Alternatively, the new WAVE-EX format form Microsoft would seem to be an >ideal candidate for pvoc files - as new format, using it will not break >or confuse other applications, and it can be announced to the world as >the 'official' pvoc format for Csound. Of course, as a WAVE-based format >the data is little-endian, which suits Intel machines but not others. > >If this is a problem, then a further alternative is to define a new >IFF-style format from first principles, which includes byte-order in the >header information. > > > >There is also the SDIF (CNMAT) format, which might be worth considering. > > >Richard Dobson > > >jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: >> >> Message written at 14 Mar 1999 20:39:13 +0000 >> --- Copy of mail to vlabs@singnet.com.sg --- >> >> Are you being confused by byte order? I ask as one piece of >> unfinished business is to make all analysis files byte-order >> independent. Just a thought..... the lpc stuff was written my Marc >> Resbois, from whom I have not heard of late. Are you still listening >> Marc? >> >> ==John ffitch > >-- >Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! >http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd >CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08252; 15 Mar 99 13:36 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MXYA-00016S-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:36:58 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA11175); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:49:36 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:49:22 GMT Received: from iron.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.29] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA03354); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:49:19 GMT Received: from vlabs (hs05136.singnet.com.sg [165.21.197.217]) by iron.singnet.com.sg (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA21723 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:48:13 +0800 (SGT) Message-ID: <002a01be6ee1$e6e64460$d9c515a5@vlabs> From: "John J. Samuel" To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Subject: Linear Prediction, Byte-Ordering, Csound, and SDIF Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:46:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk The issue I wrote on does not seem related to byte ordering, because the auxiliary information - rms energies, pitch, error, get read accurately. In order to make sense of the data, I've been doing analyses with as few as two poles. The imaginary components are sometimes pi or its sub-multiples - not something which you'd expect to see with z transforms. The SDIF format sounds good. However, the support for it seems not to have gained any momentum, in the couple of years the page at CNMAT has been up. I hear that Xavier Serra's SMS uses it. I was at the CNMAT site a few days ago, and note that many aspects of the full specification are still not done. Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08398; 15 Mar 99 14:22 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MYG0-00047H-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:22:16 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA07418); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:30 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:16 GMT Received: from root@www.tomy.net [209.186.149.104] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA18458); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:06:11 GMT Received: from cygnus.com (thudson@jimi.tomy.net [192.168.1.2]) by www.tomy.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12253 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:05:57 -0500 Message-ID: <36ED13C5.DA337F1B@cygnus.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:05:57 +0000 From: Thomas Hudson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Csound Performance on Multiprocessor Intel Systems? References: <199903150651.AA064490708@bstde026.bbn.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Jens Kilian wrote: > As I keep telling people: A processor rated for 300MHz is a processor which > has ALREADY failed at 450MHz, during the final test at the fab. > My 300mHz Celeron has been running continuously at 464mHz for over two months. I had to bump the core voltage to 2.3 and use a heat sink with three cooling fans. I think what you are saying used to be true. Today however, marketing probably plays a greater role. I'm sure Intel doesn't want an $80 Celeron competing with the much more expensive and profitable Pentium II 450. Thomas Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08404; 15 Mar 99 14:22 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MYGR-00018m-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:22:43 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (NAA00020); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:31:50 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:31:37 GMT Received: from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57] by hermes via ESMTP (NAA11811); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:31:11 GMT Received: from Realizer (user-38ld0me.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.130.206]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA03304; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:29:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003901be6ee7$e6a004e0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> From: Michael Gogins To: Richard Dobson , jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 08:29:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I suggest you use SDIF as this is more in keeping with the public-domain character of our work. I also believe it would be technically adequate. As an alternative, I suggest using Extensible Markup Language (tagged text files) as it is easier to code readers and writers for this type of format, and to use it from and for other applications. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Dobson To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound >I have to catch up on a lot of emails, as I have been away; but I have >amn immediate follow-up to this; > >in CDP we use WAVE and AIFF file formats to store pvoc analysis data - >each naturally respects the appropriate byte-order. For historical >reasons we use our own proprietary mechanism in the header for storing >relevant information, but this could easily be converted into a >converntional 'chunk' format. I agree that a generaic cross-platform >pvoc analysis format is needed - the question is whart format(s) to >adopt. > >I could for example define pvoc chunks for both WAVE and AIFF formats, >and have a common extension of .ANA for them 9the parsing code will need >to read the header to determine which format the file is in - we do this >in CDP and it works very well). > >Alternatively, the new WAVE-EX format form Microsoft would seem to be an >ideal candidate for pvoc files - as new format, using it will not break >or confuse other applications, and it can be announced to the world as >the 'official' pvoc format for Csound. Of course, as a WAVE-based format >the data is little-endian, which suits Intel machines but not others. > >If this is a problem, then a further alternative is to define a new >IFF-style format from first principles, which includes byte-order in the >header information. > > > >There is also the SDIF (CNMAT) format, which might be worth considering. > > >Richard Dobson > > >jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote: >> >> Message written at 14 Mar 1999 20:39:13 +0000 >> --- Copy of mail to vlabs@singnet.com.sg --- >> >> Are you being confused by byte order? I ask as one piece of >> unfinished business is to make all analysis files byte-order >> independent. Just a thought..... the lpc stuff was written my Marc >> Resbois, from whom I have not heard of late. Are you still listening >> Marc? >> >> ==John ffitch > >-- >Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! >http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd >CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08601; 15 Mar 99 15:45 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MZYV-0001Ew-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:45:27 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA09663); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:26:04 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:25:45 GMT Received: from lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.15] by hermes via ESMTP (PAA11528); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:25:15 GMT Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (p2054.net10.usyd.edu.au [10.0.8.6]) by lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA21690 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:23:42 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36ED25CB.27393AA1@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:22:55 +1100 From: Bob Douglas Reply-To: rdouglas@mail.usyd.edu.au Organization: Sydney Conservatorium X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CSound list Subject: Re: Csound Performance on Multiprocessor Intel Systems? References: <199903150651.AA064490708@bstde026.bbn.hp.com> <36ED13C5.DA337F1B@cygnus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Why stop at 2 processors - or 3? I would be interested in the possibility of Csound running on a large array , where issues like synchronisation and the allocation of differing processing loads (running Csound sub-tasks) were dealt with by the system itself. I might be very wrong, but aren't these the sort of things that arrays do well? Perhaps the Parallel Real-Time Systems and Speech Processing & Acoustics Research Group in the Dept of Electronics at University of York can shed some light on the idea of Csound and arrays. One of their number - John Tuffen - is/was working on something last year called "Dynamic load balancing on systolic array processors for use in music synthesis". See www.amp.york.ac.uk/external/aseg/restaff.htm for further details. Can anyone tell me how an array of processors differs from a neural net? Bob Douglas Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09308; 15 Mar 99 19:35 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Md8l-0001UC-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:35:07 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA06429); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:31:14 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:31:03 GMT Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (TAA15648); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:31:02 GMT Received: (qmail 28492 invoked from network); 15 Mar 1999 19:27:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.81) by jaguars with SMTP; 15 Mar 1999 19:27:33 -0000 Message-ID: <36ED6145.154E9CF9@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:36:37 +0000 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound References: <003901be6ee7$e6a004e0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I will take another look at the SDIF spec. If the format is still fluid, than this may be an excuse to get it solidified. I remember feeling that too many essential items of information were delegated to optional chunks. A pvoc analysis file can be megabytes in size - easily larger than the soundfile it represents. Can anyone really want to deal with it in text form? Richard Dobson Michael Gogins wrote: > > I suggest you use SDIF as this is more in keeping with the public-domain > character of our work. I also believe it would be technically adequate. > > As an alternative, I suggest using Extensible Markup Language (tagged text > files) as it is easier to code readers and writers for this type of format, > and to use it from and for other applications. > -- Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09414; 15 Mar 99 20:20 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MdqH-0004ac-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:20:05 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA15110); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:16:20 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:16:07 GMT Received: from dns2.seanet.com [199.181.164.2] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA03232); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:16:06 GMT Received: from seanet.com (costello.seanet.com [204.182.65.218]) by mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA21286; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:15:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36ED6A91.8CAD4D2A@seanet.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:16:17 -0800 From: Sean Costello X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Dobson CC: CSound list Subject: Re: Csound Performance on Multiprocessor Intel Systems? References: <199903150651.AA064490708@bstde026.bbn.hp.com> <36ED13C5.DA337F1B@cygnus.com> <36ED25CB.27393AA1@mail.usyd.edu.au> <36ED602C.225E2089@cableinet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Richard Dobson wrote: > > Long long ago, in a University in Durham, a massively parallel version > of Csound was developed using 160 transputers. Each node implemented an > opcode (or possibly a whole instrument), and each received a copy of the > score (as I recall; I last read about this long long ago...). The > Project was led by Peter Manning. This was written up in Computer Music Journal Vol. 21:4 (Winter 1997). I'll reread the article when I get home tonight. > I am not even sure whether Transputers still exist, as such; but > possibly the architecture is still valid. Arbitrating message-passing > and data-passing between nodes would seem to be the tricky part. I don't think that they are still made, but maybe the programming techniques used would be useful for implementing Csound on a multinode Beowulf-type "rendering" system. I don't think that such a system would be useful for real-time work; my friends who know more about this than I do feel that Beowulf-type distributed systems are great for batch number crunching, but are not very good at the type of scheduling needed for real-time music. Still, it would be great to have a number of cheap motherboards all working on the same composition, especially if phase vocoding or sndwarp are being heavily used. Having a minute of sound generated in a minute or two, rather than 20 minutes, would greatly help the creative and debugging process, even if the output is not generated in real-time. I am sure that there are other hardware configurations that allow multiple processors to be used in real time. The appeal of the Beowulf system is that it uses commonly available components (each node would consist of a motherboard with processor, memory, maybe a hard drive, and an Ethernet card for connecting to the other nodes). I don't know of any commonly available motherboards that use more than 2 processors; I haven't seen 4 processor motherboards for sale outside of Intel workstations. With Beowulf, a 160-node network is certainly attainable. Check out http://www.beowulf.org for more info. > There is a huge array of SHARC processors in a rack at Bristol > University, nominally for video work, but I don't think they really > budgeted for anyone to actually work with it, so it is mostly twiddling > its thumbs, consuming 30amps, and the fan makes an almighty racket. > Maybe I'll get a chance to burn my brain on it some time - but I get the > impression that B.U would be glad for anyone to go in and use it for > ...something! Could you contact Analog Devices and see if they could give you XTCsound implementation help? I would think that getting something like this up and running would be a nice advertisement for what the SHARC chips can do in a musical environment. Now the SHARC array should be able to do real-time work. That would be pretty darned nifty, to say the least. Sean Costello Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09457; 15 Mar 99 20:30 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Me07-0004dA-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:30:15 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA05503); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:27:24 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:27:11 GMT Received: from root@smtp1.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.30.81] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA04000); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:27:10 GMT Received: from [140.247.42.126] (nas2-26.fas.harvard.edu [140.247.42.126]) by smtp1.fas.harvard.edu with ESMTP id PAA00446; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:27:08 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: starrett@pop.fas.harvard.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Area: People, Technology and Music Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:22:16 -0500 To: Csound List From: Charles Starrett Subject: phasor & tablemix Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk In the following orc/sco, I've been trying to do cross-fades in the orc file using tablemix and have run into two problems: (1) even when I set the period of phasor to 1/p3, it still appears to run a bit over (see the "printk" statement) (2) I'm getting "clicks" where I don't think I should be getting them. They occur at the point when new f-tables are swapped into tablemix. I have tried to compensate for this by making sure that they swap under the following circumstances: BEFORE: f199 = (fA)0 + (fB)1 AFTER: f199 = (fB)1 + (fC)0 It seems to be okay, but there may be a problem in the coordination of the fade with the f-table swap which I can't work out... Can anyone help me out here? ;----------------------------------- ;clksweep.orc ; sr = 44100 kr = 4410 ksmps = 10 nchnls = 1 instr 3 iamp = p4 ; ipitch = p5 ; base pitch iseqfn = p6 ; f-table selection f-table istart = p7 ; start position on seqfn idir = p8/abs(p8) ; step dir. through table (1 or -1) idur = abs(p3/p8) ; duration of each crossfade irange = p8 - idir ; # of positions to step through ; lookup starting and ending f-tables for each cross-fade kphs phasor 1/p3 kndx = kphsp8 knxtndx = kndx+idir ktbl table kndx, iseqfn, 0, istart knxttbl table knxtndx, iseqfn, 0, istart printk (idur/2), kphs ; crossfade between two tables using ramp (f198) and write to f199 kross oscili 1, 1/idur, 198 kfade = 1 - kross tablemix 199, 0, 4096, ktbl, 0, kfade, knxttbl, 0, kross tablegpw 199 iattrel = .05 ; attack and release times kenv linseg 0, iattrel, iamp, p3-2iattrel, iamp, iattrel, 0 asig oscil kenv, cpspch(ipitch), 199, -.5 out asig endin ;----------------------------------- ;clksweep.sco ; ;-----------------\ ; function tables \ ;-----------------\ f1 0 4097 10 1 f2 0 4097 10 1 0 .333333 0 .111111 0 .037037 0 .012345 f3 0 4097 10 0 0 1 f4 0 4097 10 0 0 0 0 1 f5 0 4097 10 0 0 1 0 1 f6 0 4097 10 0 0 1 0 .6 0 1 f7 0 4097 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 f8 0 4097 10 1 .5 .333333 .25 .2 .166666 .142857 .125 .111111 .1 f9 0 4097 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 ; lists of function tables to fade between f191 0 16 -2 2 8 1 1 3 4 5 6 7 9 ; other function tables f198 0 17 -7 0 4 0 8 1 4 1 f199 0 4097 10 1 ; oscil table ;-----------------\ ; note statements \ ;-----------------\ ;i3 0 2 10000 5.05 191 3 1 ;i3 + 7 10000 5.10 191 0 +9 i3 + 14 10000 5.05 191 9 -9 e -- /----Charles D. Starrett-----\ "I do not feel that \| / \| ____ \| \| ____ \| \| my research suffered unduly \| /\ \| \|-- \|-\| ___\| \| \| from the fact that I enjoyed it." \| \|___ \|____\| \| \|_____\| \| Daniel Miller, \--starrett@fas.harvard.edu--/ Modernity--an Ethnographic Approach Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09472; 15 Mar 99 20:37 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Me6f-0004dR-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:37:01 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA16653); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:33:33 GMT From: Nmpease@aol.com Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:33:21 GMT Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA07497); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:33:19 GMT Received: from Nmpease@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id 9YVLa17023 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:43 EST To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: play file? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I've got Csound installed on my Sun SPARCstation-10 running Solaris 5.7 (this is UNIX), I can get it to render my .orc and .sco files, and it says no errors in performance etc... But I can't get it to play the soundfile. ...can someone help me with the comand and/or point me to a page on the internet with this sort of useful info specific to unix users of csound? Thanks. Nate Pease Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09559; 15 Mar 99 21:30 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mewr-0001Xn-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:30:57 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA17612); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:28:51 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:28:38 GMT Received: from astor.interport.net [199.184.165.18] by hermes via ESMTP (VAA00674); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:28:37 GMT Received: from dante (arcts1p135.port.net [207.237.110.135]) by astor.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA19467 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:29:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <017201be6f2a$94afa080$876eedcf@dante> From: Rosati To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Subject: Balancing loudness Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:27:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Greetings- If, for example, a sine tone was gliss. from 64 to 20000 cps at a constant amplitude, it appears to get louder as the pitch increases. Does anyone know what is the easiest way to balance this so that loudness remains constant across the frequency spectrum? thanks, dante Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09657; 15 Mar 99 22:18 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mfgj-0001Yx-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:18:21 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA16566); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:17:08 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:16:55 GMT Received: from echo.flash.net [209.30.0.40] (may be forged) by hermes via ESMTP (WAA09966); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:16:54 GMT Received: from flash.net (p87.amax17.dialup.ftw1.flash.net [209.30.13.87]) by crius.flash.net (8.9.1/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02724; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:16:44 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36ED8720.F3BD942@flash.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:18:08 -0600 From: pete moss Organization: pete moss GmbH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rosati , csound Subject: Re: Balancing loudness References: <017201be6f2a$94afa080$876eedcf@dante> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk it does this because human ears dont perceive all frequencies at the same loudness even if they have the same amplitude. you could find a table in almost any acoustics book that shows the relative loudness for all freqs. you could then make a table of the inverse of that function that would be used to raise or lower the amplitude at different freqs so that it would sound the same loudness across the spectrum. however, every ear is different, so not everyone would perceive it properly. pete Rosati wrote: > Greetings- > > If, for example, a sine tone was gliss. from 64 to 20000 cps at a constant > amplitude, it appears to get louder as the pitch increases. Does anyone > know what is the easiest way to balance this so that loudness remains > constant across the frequency spectrum? > > thanks, > > dante Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09741; 15 Mar 99 23:12 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MgXY-0004hR-00; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:12:56 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA04531); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:10:04 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:09:52 GMT Received: from mercury.cc.oberlin.edu [132.162.1.220] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA12756); Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:09:51 GMT Received: from dhcp (DHCP5201.resnet.oberlin.edu) by oberlin.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29794) with SMTP id <0F8N005PNSC8H5@oberlin.edu> for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:09:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:08:59 -0500 From: jim altieri Subject: Re: Balancing loudness X-Sender: sjva4957@mail.cc.oberlin.edu To: csound Message-id: <2.2.32.19990315230859.0073f804@mail.cc.oberlin.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk At 04:18 PM 3/15/99 -0600, pete moss wrote: >it does this because human ears dont perceive all frequencies at the same >loudness even if they have the same amplitude. you could find a table in >almost any acoustics book that shows the relative loudness for all freqs. you >could then make a table of the inverse of that function that would be used to >raise or lower the amplitude at different freqs so that it would sound the >same loudness across the spectrum. however, every ear is different, so not >everyone would perceive it properly. bessel functions possibly? they're pretty. -jim altieri http://www.mp3.com/tweeg/ Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09935; 16 Mar 99 1:11 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MiOJ-0001hj-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:11:31 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA17486); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:08:21 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:08:10 GMT Received: from root@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA10396); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:08:09 GMT Received: from goodguy (p35.pm3-4.westnet.com [206.28.203.81]) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA18173; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:07:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EDA0EF.7D90B5B9@westnet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:08:15 +0000 From: Larry Troxler X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sergey Batov CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Question, write one note then have it repeat x times with 1 pitch inc. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Sergey Batov wrote: > > Hi, > I'm reading you conversation with interest and suddenly thought: > Csound can do MIDI-out. Is it possible to save this MIDI-out stream > as a standard MIDI-file? If it's so one can create some fantastic > (algoritmic) > compositions using any program language (BASIC, PERL, e.t.c.) and transform > it > through Csound to MIDI-file. It's possible to do, of course, directly > (without Csound) > but in this case it's necessary to learn MIDI-file format. > > Excuse me if this "moment notice" seems too foolish... > > Regards, > Sergey Batov batov@glasnet.ru > I'm wondering why you would need to use Csound at all in this case. Perhaps I don't understand what your idea. There are a number (two that I know of, so probably more than that), of text<->midi converters available. They convert between a text-format description of the MIDI events, and the binary MIDI file format. One such converter is (if memory serves) included with the old MIDITOOLS package. Larry -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10104; 16 Mar 99 2:40 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MjmY-0001jC-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:40:38 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA12918); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:38:41 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:38:30 GMT Received: from send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128] by hermes via SMTP (CAA16311); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:38:28 GMT Message-ID: <19990316024047.2485.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [132.206.141.201] by send105.yahoomail.com; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:40:47 PST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:40:47 -0800 (PST) From: Michal Seta Subject: Re: Question, write one note then have it repeat x times with 1 pitch inc. To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk There's always a Perl program for composing MIDI files in a variety of ways, programmable and all. The name escapes me but I'm sure someone else on the list has heard of it. MS ---Larry Troxler wrote: > > Sergey Batov wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I'm reading you conversation with interest and suddenly thought: > > Csound can do MIDI-out. Is it possible to save this MIDI-out stream > > as a standard MIDI-file? If it's so one can create some fantastic > > (algoritmic) > > compositions using any program language (BASIC, PERL, e.t.c.) and transform > > it > > through Csound to MIDI-file. It's possible to do, of course, directly > > (without Csound) > > but in this case it's necessary to learn MIDI-file format. > > > > Excuse me if this "moment notice" seems too foolish... > > > > Regards, > > Sergey Batov batov@glasnet.ru > > > > I'm wondering why you would need to use Csound at all in this case. > Perhaps I don't understand what your idea. There are a number (two that > I know of, so probably more than that), of text<->midi converters > available. They convert between a text-format description of the MIDI > events, and the binary MIDI file format. One such converter is (if > memory serves) included with the old MIDITOOLS package. > > Larry > > -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10155; 16 Mar 99 3:00 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mk5T-0001jU-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:00:11 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA02503); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:58:49 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:58:38 GMT Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA02688); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:58:37 GMT Received: from Realizer (user-38ld139.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.132.105]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08499; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:58:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601be6f58$f0b8ca40$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> From: Michael Gogins To: Richard Dobson , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:58:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk As for dealing with pvoc in text form, my disk is 14 gigabytes and only half full, even though loaded with C++, VB, Java, Csound, Silence, Mathematica, MS Office, all my pieces in mp3s, the master for one album and part of another. I think I can handle a few megabytes. Oh, and some games, Cool Edit Pro, and Emagic Gold. Oh, and parts of jam sessions recorded to HD in float... -----Original Message----- From: Richard Dobson To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound >I will take another look at the SDIF spec. If the format is still fluid, >than this may be an excuse to get it solidified. I remember feeling that >too many essential items of information were delegated to optional >chunks. > >A pvoc analysis file can be megabytes in size - easily larger than the >soundfile it represents. Can anyone really want to deal with it in text >form? > >Richard Dobson > > >Michael Gogins wrote: >> >> I suggest you use SDIF as this is more in keeping with the public-domain >> character of our work. I also believe it would be technically adequate. >> >> As an alternative, I suggest using Extensible Markup Language (tagged text >> files) as it is easier to code readers and writers for this type of format, >> and to use it from and for other applications. >> > >-- >Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! >http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd >CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10180; 16 Mar 99 3:04 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mk9t-0001jZ-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:04:45 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA00840); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:02:20 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:02:08 GMT Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA07594); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:02:07 GMT Received: from Realizer (user-38ld139.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.132.105]) by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00754; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:02:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01be6f59$6f062a00$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> From: Michael Gogins To: Rosati , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos Subject: Re: Balancing loudness Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:02:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk This is not easy. Look up "Fletcher-Munson curve" or "constant-loudness curve" in a book on psychoacoustics. The nonlinearity of loudness changes with loudness, too. That's why there's a "loudness" knob on most stereo preamps or receivers. -----Original Message----- From: Rosati To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 4:31 PM Subject: Balancing loudness >Greetings- > >If, for example, a sine tone was gliss. from 64 to 20000 cps at a constant >amplitude, it appears to get louder as the pitch increases. Does anyone >know what is the easiest way to balance this so that loudness remains >constant across the frequency spectrum? > >thanks, > >dante > Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10197; 16 Mar 99 3:10 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MkF6-0001jd-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:10:08 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA18488); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:08:43 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:08:32 GMT Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA00567); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:08:30 GMT Received: from att.net ([12.72.4.130]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with ESMTP id <19990316030756.BACO20328@att.net> for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:07:56 +0000 Message-ID: <36EDCDF6.593335A8@att.net> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:20:31 -0800 From: SONICMAN X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Csound Q&A list Subject: Opinions...The best DSP music and sound books? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Hello, My use of csound has gotten me very curious as to what is actually making Csound work and I must know more about DSP, C++ code that generated and manipulates sound so... What are your favorite DSP, audio in C/C++ books! Everybody with an opinion please respond. Thanks, SONICMAN=out Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10212; 16 Mar 99 3:16 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MkKk-0001jn-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:15:58 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA12761); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:14:53 GMT From: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:14:43 GMT Received: from anago.wwa.com [198.49.174.54] by hermes via SMTP (DAA08061); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:14:41 GMT Received: from [207.241.63.31](really [207.241.63.31]) by anago.wwa.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:14:38 -0600 (CST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #88 built 1997-Nov-30) Message-Id: X-Sender: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:37:45 -0600 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Balancing loudness Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >it does this because human ears dont perceive all frequencies at the same >loudness even if they have the same amplitude. you could find a table in >almost any acoustics book that shows the relative loudness for all freqs. you >could then make a table of the inverse of that function that would be used to >raise or lower the amplitude at different freqs so that it would sound the >same loudness across the spectrum. however, every ear is different, so not >everyone would perceive it properly. much luvl!nesz. beaut! = w!nz. humanz = loze 2jourz \|\| enkor kom vouz voulez Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10261; 16 Mar 99 3:37 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mkfu-0004rm-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:37:50 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA10175); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:24 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:05 GMT Received: from root@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA15688); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:04 GMT Received: from goodguy (p23.pm3-3.westnet.com [206.28.203.23]) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA28916; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:35:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EDC275.7EFCD62F@westnet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:31:17 +0000 From: Larry Troxler X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michal Seta CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Perl - was: Re: Question, write one note then have it repeat x times with 1 pitch inc. References: <19990316024047.2485.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Michal Seta wrote: > > There's always a Perl program for composing MIDI files in a variety of > ways, programmable and all. The name escapes me but I'm sure someone > else on the list has heard of it. > > MS > I vaguely remember something called midiperl. Maybe that's it, not sure tho. Larry -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10267; 16 Mar 99 3:37 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mkfz-0001k2-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:37:55 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA11900); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:28 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:08 GMT Received: from root@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA18539); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 03:36:07 GMT Received: from goodguy (p23.pm3-3.westnet.com [206.28.203.23]) by westnet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA28921; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:36:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36EDC39F.22E0606C@westnet.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:36:15 +0000 From: Larry Troxler X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Off topic - noise / was :Re: Balancing loudness References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I had high hopes when this guy said he was going to boycott the mailing lists. Guess the boycott didn't last too long. Oh well, there's far greater annoyances to contend with than this. It was a pleasant thought, for a while, though :-) f1f0@m9ndfukc.com wrote: < some random combination of characters > -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10595; 16 Mar 99 5:38 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MmZ4-0001pe-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:38:54 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA15087); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:35:58 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:35:46 GMT Received: from send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43] by hermes via SMTP (FAA04735); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:35:45 GMT Message-ID: <19990316053606.13507.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [192.9.25.22] by send106.yahoomail.com; Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:36:06 PST Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:36:06 -0800 (PST) From: Qian Chen Subject: Re: play file? To: Nmpease@aol.com Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Have you tested whether your SPARCStation 10 CAN play sound? First, some Sun's SPARCStation does not have sound card in the box for some reason. Check if your workstation have audio in/out, line out beside the box. If it really has, run /usr/openwin/bin/audiotool to play some audio files under /usr/demo/SOUND/sounds. You could choose which output device(internal speaker or external ones) is used by selecting "Volume/Play.../" on the menu. If all the things are correct, you should have listened to the sound. In that case, there might be something wrong with your audio file generated by Csound. Please use the simplest orc+sco(they could be downloaded from ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/documentation/tutorials/, toot1.orc and toot1.sco will be OK.) to see if it works. If it sounds, please check your own Csound orc+sco to find the errors. Maybe the frequency is too low or too high, maybe the amp is not very proper... If it does not, check if the output format is au, which can be recognized and played on Sun OS. Then I think you could here the sound by using the audiotool. Hope those info can help you. :) Chen, Qian ---Nmpease@aol.com wrote: > > I've got Csound installed on my Sun SPARCstation-10 running Solaris 5.7 (this > is UNIX), I can get it to render my .orc and .sco files, and it says no errors > in performance etc... > But I can't get it to play the soundfile. > ...can someone help me with the comand and/or point me to a page on the > internet with this sort of useful info specific to unix users of csound? > Thanks. > Nate Pease > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10695; 16 Mar 99 6:44 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mnai-0004yv-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:44:40 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (GAA10873); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:43:25 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:43:12 GMT Received: from out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252] by hermes via ESMTP (GAA12778); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:43:11 GMT Received: from ibm.net (slip129-37-49-155.ca.us.ibm.net [129.37.49.155]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA92168 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:43:07 GMT Message-ID: <36EDFE79.BDBDC23@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:47:21 -0500 From: "Job M. van Zuijlen" Reply-To: zuijlen@ibm.net Organization: electona X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Csound List Subject: Re: Csound Performance on Multiprocessor Intel Systems? References: <199903150651.AA064490708@bstde026.bbn.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk For those who want more information on the subject of overclocking from someone who seems to know what he is talking about, go to: http://www.tomshardware.com/overclock.html Job van Zuijlen Jens Kilian wrote: > > > Overclock a Celeron 300A to 450MHz (or in some cases 464 MHz) using a BX > > motherboard and add a cpu cooling fan. That's the cheapest you can get > > and it's _very_ reliable. > > As I keep telling people: A processor rated for 300MHz is a processor which > has ALREADY failed at 450MHz, during the final test at the fab. > Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10873; 16 Mar 99 8:05 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Moqh-0001rq-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:05:15 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA16329); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:03:50 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:03:38 GMT Received: from icarus.dur.ac.uk [129.234.1.2] by hermes via ESMTP (IAA07437); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:03:37 GMT Received: from mercury (mercury.dur.ac.uk [129.234.4.40]) by icarus.dur.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11127; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:03:07 GMT Received: from altair by mercury id ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:03:07 GMT Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:03:06 +0000 (GMT) From: Manning Reply-To: Manning To: Sean Costello cc: Richard Dobson , CSound list , nick@polonious.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Csound Performance on Multiprocessor Intel Systems? In-Reply-To: <36ED6A91.8CAD4D2A@seanet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Richard and Sean are absolutely right on this one, so here is some additional information which may be useful:- The article in CMJ 21/4 describes more recent work (Itagaki, Manning, Purvis) which tackled the central issue of how to distribute audio synthesis across a massively parallel bank of processors. This did not involve Csound using instead optimised code for oscillators written in transputer code. The technology (transputers) is dead in the water, but the principles are not. Of special and more immediate interest perhaps to csounders is earlier work by Nick Bailey, now working at the University of Leeds (UK) - email nick@polunious.demon.co.uk - which successfully created a three transputer version of Csound in parallel mode (it still works!). Since then basic processor speeds have multiplied xxx times of course, but there is much useful work here to be picked up since all the key scheduling algorithms were written in C. To this end I have copied this Email to Nick Bailey and suggest those keen to know more contact him direct.. Peter Manning University of Durham, UK ******************* On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Sean Costello wrote: > Richard Dobson wrote: > > > > Long long ago, in a University in Durham, a massively parallel version > > of Csound was developed using 160 transputers. Each node implemented an > > opcode (or possibly a whole instrument), and each received a copy of the > > score (as I recall; I last read about this long long ago...). The > > Project was led by Peter Manning. > > This was written up in Computer Music Journal Vol. 21:4 (Winter 1997). > I'll reread the article when I get home tonight. > > > I am not even sure whether Transputers still exist, as such; but > > possibly the architecture is still valid. Arbitrating message-passing > > and data-passing between nodes would seem to be the tricky part. > > I don't think that they are still made, but maybe the programming > techniques used would be useful for implementing Csound on a multinode > Beowulf-type "rendering" system. I don't think that such a system would > be useful for real-time work; my friends who know more about this than I > do feel that Beowulf-type distributed systems are great for batch number > crunching, but are not very good at the type of scheduling needed for > real-time music. Still, it would be great to have a number of cheap > motherboards all working on the same composition, especially if phase > vocoding or sndwarp are being heavily used. Having a minute of sound > generated in a minute or two, rather than 20 minutes, would greatly help > the creative and debugging process, even if the output is not generated > in real-time. > > I am sure that there are other hardware configurations that allow > multiple processors to be used in real time. The appeal of the Beowulf > system is that it uses commonly available components (each node would > consist of a motherboard with processor, memory, maybe a hard drive, and > an Ethernet card for connecting to the other nodes). I don't know of > any commonly available motherboards that use more than 2 processors; I > haven't seen 4 processor motherboards for sale outside of Intel > workstations. With Beowulf, a 160-node network is certainly attainable. > Check out http://www.beowulf.org for more info. > > > There is a huge array of SHARC processors in a rack at Bristol > > University, nominally for video work, but I don't think they really > > budgeted for anyone to actually work with it, so it is mostly twiddling > > its thumbs, consuming 30amps, and the fan makes an almighty racket. > > Maybe I'll get a chance to burn my brain on it some time - but I get the > > impression that B.U would be glad for anyone to go in and use it for > > ...something! > > Could you contact Analog Devices and see if they could give you XTCsound > implementation help? I would think that getting something like this up > and running would be a nice advertisement for what the SHARC chips can > do in a musical environment. Now the SHARC array should be able to do > real-time work. That would be pretty darned nifty, to say the least. > > Sean Costello > Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10888; 16 Mar 99 8:13 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MoyS-00050c-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:13:16 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA07025); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:09:37 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:09:25 GMT Received: from icarus.dur.ac.uk [129.234.1.2] by hermes via ESMTP (IAA07015); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:09:24 GMT Received: from mercury (mercury.dur.ac.uk [129.234.4.40]) by icarus.dur.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11609; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:09:19 GMT Received: from altair by mercury id ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:09:19 GMT Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:09:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Manning Reply-To: Manning To: Sean Costello cc: Richard Dobson , CSound list , nick@polonius.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Csound Performance (correction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Woops! the email address for Nick Bailey (see my previous message) is nick@polonius.demon.co.uk (not polonious !!) apologies Peter Manning Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11017; 16 Mar 99 9:21 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10Mq2W-0001tt-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:21:32 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA08102); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:10:35 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:10:23 GMT Received: from jaguars-int.cableinet.net [193.38.113.9] by hermes via SMTP (JAA03936); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:10:22 GMT Received: (qmail 31663 invoked from network); 16 Mar 1999 09:06:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cableinet.co.uk) (194.117.146.12) by jaguars with SMTP; 16 Mar 1999 09:06:49 -0000 Message-ID: <36EE214B.6E17508C@cableinet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:15:55 +0000 From: Richard Dobson Organization: Composers Desktop Project X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound References: <001601be6f58$f0b8ca40$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I'm not too worried about the disk - that's what it does. I'm thinking of the poor human trying to scroll through it in WordPad or emacs... and then trying to repair it when they make a typo... We can write pvoc data to a text file alreday, in CDP, but this is for extra, diagnostic purposes. It is not the primary format, however. I will soon adapt my play program to render analysis files directly, for which the binary format is naturally appropriate, efficient and safe. There are times when it is useful to print out the sample values in a WAVE file; but I can't imagine anyone would use text as the primary working format for all their compositions! Richard Dobson Michael Gogins wrote: > > As for dealing with pvoc in text form, my disk is 14 gigabytes and only half > full, even though loaded with C++, VB, Java, Csound, Silence, Mathematica, > MS Office, all my pieces in mp3s, the master for one album and part of > another. I think I can handle a few megabytes. Oh, and some games, Cool Edit > Pro, and Emagic Gold. Oh, and parts of jam sessions recorded to HD in > float... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Dobson > To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk > Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 2:37 PM > Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound > > >I will take another look at the SDIF spec. If the format is still fluid, > >than this may be an excuse to get it solidified. I remember feeling that > >too many essential items of information were delegated to optional > >chunks. > > > >A pvoc analysis file can be megabytes in size - easily larger than the > >soundfile it represents. Can anyone really want to deal with it in text > >form? > > > >Richard Dobson > > > > > >Michael Gogins wrote: > >> > >> I suggest you use SDIF as this is more in keeping with the public-domain > >> character of our work. I also believe it would be technically adequate. > >> > >> As an alternative, I suggest using Extensible Markup Language (tagged > text > >> files) as it is easier to code readers and writers for this type of > format, > >> and to use it from and for other applications. > >> > > > >-- > >Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! > >http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd > >CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm -- Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page! http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11089; 16 Mar 99 10:02 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MqgG-00055R-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:02:36 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (JAA05418); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:49:08 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:48:55 GMT Received: from mailhub2.arts.gla.ac.uk [130.209.96.13] by hermes via ESMTP (JAA12079); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:48:54 GMT Received: from music.gla.ac.uk (celeste.music.gla.ac.uk [130.209.97.23]) by mailhub2.arts.gla.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA18423; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:57:25 GMT Received: from guitar.music.gla.ac.uk (guitar [130.209.97.35]) by music.gla.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA08151; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:48:59 GMT Message-Id: <199903160948.JAA08151@music.gla.ac.uk> Received: by guitar.music.gla.ac.uk (NX5.67g/NX3.0X) id AA23990; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:48:58 GMT Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) In-Reply-To: <36ED6145.154E9CF9@cableinet.co.uk> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 4.2mach [i386] (Enhance 2.2p2) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.148) From: Stephen Brandon - SysAdmin Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:48:56 GMT To: Richard Dobson Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk References: <003901be6ee7$e6a004e0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> <36ED6145.154E9CF9@cableinet.co.uk> Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Richard Dobson wrote: > A pvoc analysis file can be megabytes in size - easily larger than the > soundfile it represents. Can anyone really want to deal with it in text > form? Plenty of people would want to, I would say, but there is probably more to be gained by keeping it binary. To keep both camps happy, concurrently distribute some C routines to convert to and from the a text format. These could exist as stand-alone utilities, or a static lib. Whoever designs the data structure is going to have to write routines to access the data anyway, so it shouldn't be a big job. Stephen Brandon Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11438; 16 Mar 99 13:00 GMT Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk) by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #2) for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk id 10MtS6-0005hB-00; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:00:11 +0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (MAA17035); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:49:19 GMT Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:49:02 GMT Received: from gudrun.passagen.se [195.163.107.4] by hermes via ESMTP (MAA14367); Tue, 16 Mar 1999 12:48:58 GMT Received: from dumburk (dialup183-2-29.swipnet.se [130.244.183.93]) by gudrun.passagen.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26484 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:48:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36EE53BD.6549@hem.passagen.se> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:51:09 +0100 From: rasmus ekman X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Csound list Subject: Re: Linear Prediction in Csound References: <001601be6f58$f0b8ca40$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk If Csound maintainers decide to use a text format for pvoc, please create a common format so we can keep all our soundfiles as text too - that will get around all those hairy byte-order problems on different platforms, and hand-editing is great for removing clicks etc. re