| Happens to me too, guess jason has lost his eMail and majordomo can't track
it...
Malte
---------------------------
Electronic Industrial Music
www.block4.com ____________
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:23:16 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Paul Doornbusch
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To: "Job M. van Zuijlen"
cc: CSound list
Subject: Sonology - was FW: Recommended Xenakis?
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Ummm,
Yes that was amusing about Sonology being "gone". Rumours of our
demise are a tad premature. The aforementioned people are still
here and doing great work as usual. Stan will retire next year
after teaching so many of us here about DSP and Systems Theory.
We also have all of the old gear, and Jo Scherpenisse is here too
who built an awful lot of the old and new gear (and realised some
of Stochaousen's requirements for him). Last year he was even
looking into simulating a VOSIM oscillator in Csound. . .
Cheers, from the basement in a sunny Den Haag,
Paul
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Job M. van Zuijlen wrote:
> No, as far as I know the institute in Den Haag is still alive and I
> should have mentioned that they are the successor of Utrecht, and the
> keeper of its legacy. The people you mention, Berg and Tempelaars, used
> to teach in Utrecht, and I have enjoyed their classes at the time, as
> well.
> Job van Zuijlen
>
> Bob Douglas wrote:
> >
> > Job M. van Zuijlen wrote:
> >
> > > .......... of the now unfortunately deceased studios of the
> > > Institute of Sonology of the University of Utrecht.
> >
> > Is the Institute of Sonology deceased in Den Haag too !? I knew it had moved
> > because I studied Algorithmic Composition with Paul Berg there in 87-88. Stan
> > Tempelaar's lectures were the best I ever heard on Digital Processing! It was
> > a great place, buzzing with activity - they even had the original copy of
> > Varese's Poeme, as well as some of the original equipment used by Stockhausen
> > for panning etc.
> >
> > Bob Douglas
>
Paul Doornbusch
Sonology Dept.
Royal Conservatory
Den Haag
The Netherlands
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From: luis jure
To: Grant Covell ,
"Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: Xenakis and Le Corbusier
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:42:08 -0230
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>[....] My memory of modern architecture
>fails me--I could dredge up a book--but there's a particulr church with
>irregularly spaced vertical concrete lines on the outside which are
>completely attributable to Xenakis. The outside lines/patterns are
>stochastic, a clear Xenakis hallmark of the time. I do think I read
>somewhere (A liner note?) where IX admitted to this church.
You are referring to the famous Ronchamp Chapel, near Lyon. (I think the
real name is something like Notre-Dame-du-Haut). The funny thing is that
this work is considered one of Le Corbusier's masterpieces, and one of the
most important works in modern architecture.
If you think about that, it's ironic that we should refer to Xenakis as one
of the most important architects in XX Century.
I also read not long ago an interview where Xenakis admitted he had played a
decisive role in this and many other important works produced at Le
Corbusier's studio during those years, some of which were his own designs.
The interviewer was clearly interested in the subject, and how was it
possible that Le Corbusier always had tried to hide the fact, but X was
obviously unwilling to develop this further, that would leave Le Corbusier
in a very bad spot indeed.
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:55:59 +0000
From: Thomas Hudson
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To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: Localization of CSound
References:
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jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
> Message written at 29 Apr 1999 07:51:25 +0100
> --- Copy of mail to thudson@cygnus.com ---
>
> If it is GNU code then presumably it has GNU licencing?
If has the library GPL, which is more lenient than the standard
GPL. The LGPL allows non-GPL code to link with it.
> I have
> checked my SGI and Linux machines and neither of them has such a
> system.
If would appear on Linux machines using the latest C library (libc6 aka
glibc).
> I remain reluctant to use it. It is on my friend's SUN
I believe Ulrich Drepper did the original work when at Sun, and completed
it at Cygnus. The original sun man pages might not give the full picture.
> machine so we did look at the man pages for some time yesterday
> lunchtime, but I am not very enthusiastic. I am inclined to do it teh
> obvious way.
You may want to consider stealing a few ideas from it. First wrapping
all error messages in a macro:
char* message = _("Error message");
This macro can then be defined to call a catalog lookup:
#define _(x) mygettext(x)
This makes it easy for a simple perl/python/shell script to extract all
strings into a text file for translation:
egrep "_\(.*\)" *.[ch] > messages.txt
There are several caveats to this system. Quoting from Ulrich Drepper's
original article:
--- begin quote
Special string occurences in C source code
In almost every program one will find situations where the scheme for
marking strings as we described it will fail. The following code
fragments both will fail:
void
f (int idx)
{
const char *tab[] = {_("one"), _("two"),
_("three")};
puts (tab[idx]);
}
and
void
f (int idx)
{
const char *tab[] = {"one", "two",
"three"};
puts (_(tab[idx]));
}
The former will fail because initializers cannot be computed at runtime
and the second will fail because the strings are not marked and so
cannot be extracted by xgettext.
The answer is a mixture between both examples:
void
f (int idx)
{
const char *tab[] = {N_("one"), N_("two"),
N_("three")};
puts (_(tab[idx]));
}
N_ is another of the semi-standard macros used in GNU packages. It is
defined as the no-op macro with one argument:
#define N_(String) (String)
The meaning of this macro is to provide a wrapping function call which
the xgettext program can recognize. So we can extract the strings and
at runtime translate them using the _() (i.e., gettext) function.
-- end quote
Whether using GNU gettext or writing your own, the best overview of the
problems and solutions is Ulrich Drepper's document:
http://i44www.info.uni-karlsruhe.de/~drepper/conf96/paper-6.html
Thomas
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:55:59 +0000
From: Thomas Hudson
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Subject: Re: Localization of CSound
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jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
>
> Message written at 29 Apr 1999 07:51:25 +0100
> --- Copy of mail to thudson@cygnus.com ---
>
> If it is GNU code then presumably it has GNU licencing?
If has the library GPL, which is more lenient than the standard
GPL. The LGPL allows non-GPL code to link with it.
> I have
> checked my SGI and Linux machines and neither of them has such a
> system.
If would appear on Linux machines using the latest C library (libc6 aka
glibc).
> I remain reluctant to use it. It is on my friend's SUN
I believe Ulrich Drepper did the original work when at Sun, and completed
it at Cygnus. The original sun man pages might not give the full picture.
> machine so we did look at the man pages for some time yesterday
> lunchtime, but I am not very enthusiastic. I am inclined to do it teh
> obvious way.
You may want to consider stealing a few ideas from it. First wrapping
all error messages in a macro:
char* message = _("Error message");
This macro can then be defined to call a catalog lookup:
#define _(x) mygettext(x)
This makes it easy for a simple perl/python/shell script to extract all
strings into a text file for translation:
egrep "_\(.*\)" *.[ch] > messages.txt
There are several caveats to this system. Quoting from Ulrich Drepper's
original article:
--- begin quote
Special string occurences in C source code
In almost every program one will find situations where the scheme for
marking strings as we described it will fail. The following code
fragments both will fail:
void
f (int idx)
{
const char *tab[] = {_("one"), _("two"),
_("three")};
puts (tab[idx]);
}
and
void
f (int idx)
{
const char *tab[] = {"one", "two",
"three"};
puts (_(tab[idx]));
}
The former will fail because initializers cannot be computed at runtime
and the second will fail because the strings are not marked and so
cannot be extracted by xgettext.
The answer is a mixture between both examples:
void
f (int idx)
{
const char *tab[] = {N_("one"), N_("two"),
N_("three")};
puts (_(tab[idx]));
}
N_ is another of the semi-standard macros used in GNU packages. It is
defined as the no-op macro with one argument:
#define N_(String) (String)
The meaning of this macro is to provide a wrapping function call which
the xgettext program can recognize. So we can extract the strings and
at runtime translate them using the _() (i.e., gettext) function.
-- end quote
Whether using GNU gettext or writing your own, the best overview of the
problems and solutions is Ulrich Drepper's document:
http://i44www.info.uni-karlsruhe.de/~drepper/conf96/paper-6.html
Thomas
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References: (message from Hans
Timmermans on Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:39:00 +0200)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:22:18 +0200
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
From: Hans Timmermans
Subject: Re: development qeustion
Cc: sogm@kmt.hku.nl, csound@noether.ex.AC.UK
>Hans
> I might be interested in working on thsi project but looking at your
> web page I did not feel any wiser. What is/are the software
> problem(s)? If I understand it well enough I wouidl be willing to
> see if i can change Csound to accommodate what your project needs.
>
>==John ffitch
Hi John,
I am in a hurry now and will be back next thursday, but shortly:
We need the possibility to control CSoundinstruments, the scheduling of
instruments (so not controlled by the score but controlled by a score that
is put together during soundgeneration and we need the possibility to
rearrange CSoundinstruments while playing the instrument. To do so we would
like to open up the code of CSound and see if we can build a kind of
plug-in architecture to make this tings possible.
The DSL will need an Userinterface presenting feedback, music-strucural
info to participating composers etc., so we want to use CSound mainly for
its RT-generating possibilites and all the different implementations on all
the diff. platforms.
Hope this is an answer.
Regards,
Hans Timmermans
Senior Lecturer in Computer Music and in Music Software Development.
mailto:hans.timmermans@kmt.hku.nl
http://www.hku.nl/~hanst
School of Music
Graduate and Postgraduate Programs in Composition, Music Production and
Music Technology http://www.hku.nl/ma/
Faculty of Art, Media & Technology
Utrecht School of the Arts
phone: (+31) 35 6836464
fax: (+31) 35 6836480
PO-BOX 2471
1200 CL HILVERSUM
the NETHERLANDS
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References: (message from Hans
Timmermans on Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:39:00 +0200)
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:22:18 +0200
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
From: Hans Timmermans
Subject: Re: development qeustion
Cc: sogm@kmt.hku.nl, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
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>Hans
> I might be interested in working on thsi project but looking at your
> web page I did not feel any wiser. What is/are the software
> problem(s)? If I understand it well enough I wouidl be willing to
> see if i can change Csound to accommodate what your project needs.
>
>==John ffitch
Hi John,
I am in a hurry now and will be back next thursday, but shortly:
We need the possibility to control CSoundinstruments, the scheduling of
instruments (so not controlled by the score but controlled by a score that
is put together during soundgeneration and we need the possibility to
rearrange CSoundinstruments while playing the instrument. To do so we would
like to open up the code of CSound and see if we can build a kind of
plug-in architecture to make this tings possible.
The DSL will need an Userinterface presenting feedback, music-strucural
info to participating composers etc., so we want to use CSound mainly for
its RT-generating possibilites and all the different implementations on all
the diff. platforms.
Hope this is an answer.
Regards,
Hans Timmermans
Senior Lecturer in Computer Music and in Music Software Development.
mailto:hans.timmermans@kmt.hku.nl
http://www.hku.nl/~hanst
School of Music
Graduate and Postgraduate Programs in Composition, Music Production and
Music Technology http://www.hku.nl/ma/
Faculty of Art, Media & Technology
Utrecht School of the Arts
phone: (+31) 35 6836464
fax: (+31) 35 6836480
PO-BOX 2471
1200 CL HILVERSUM
the NETHERLANDS
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:32:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Localization of CSound
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John ffitch wrote:
>If it is GNU code then presumably it has GNU licencing?
>I have checked my SGI and Linux machines and neither of
>them has such a system. I remain reluctant to use it.
>It is on my friend's SUN machine so we did look at the
>man pages for some time yesterday lunchtime, but I am not
>very enthusiastic. I am inclined to do it the obvious way.
Also, such a solution would not port to Macs, since they are
currently non-POSIX systems.
-jim
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:16:24 -0400
From: Thomas Hudson
Organization: Cygnus Solutions
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Jim_Ravan@avid.com wrote:
>
> Also, such a solution would not port to Macs, since they are
> currently non-POSIX systems.
>
I think it may have already been ported to the mac. TCL/Tk uses
gettext, and it runs on the mac. I'll try to research this and
make sure.
Thomas
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From: Eric Scheirer
To: Csound list
Subject: Invitation: 25th anniversary of MIT Experimental Music Studio
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:27:56 -0400
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You are cordially invited to attend the 25th Anniversary of the MIT
Experimental Music Studio. Your response is kindly requested.
DIGITAL REWIND: Symposium and Concert to celebrate 25 years of computer
music innovation at MIT
When:
Friday, May 21, 1999
Symposium 10am - 5pm EST
Dinner 5:30 - 7:30pm EST
Concert 8-10pm EST
Where:
Symposium - Barthos Theater, Media Laboratory
Dinner - Media Laboratory
Concert - Kresge Auditorium
For more information, to receive an invitation by mail or to
RSVP please contact:
Connie Van Rheenen
email: emsrsvp@media.mit.edu
phone: 617. 253. 2727
http://www.media.mit.edu/EMS
------------------
Symposium
------------------
On Friday, May 21, 1999 the Media Laboratory will host a day
long event to honor the contributions of the composers and music research=
ers
associated with the renowned Experimental Music Studio (EMS) at MIT. The
symposium will feature talks by notable figures from music and technology
including: Robert Moog (Big Briar, Inc.), Max Mathews (Interval
Corporation), Ray Stata (Founder and Chairman of Analog Devices), Miller
Puckette (Professor of Music at UCSD). The talks will range from early
contributions of the EMS to digital audio synthesis technology to the mos=
t
recent innovations from the Media Lab, including a major part of the new
MPEG-4 audio standard. EMS founder Professor Barry Vercoe now leads the
Machine Listening Group at the Media Lab where he directs research in aud=
io
compression, synthetic listeners and performers, singing voice
parameterization and re-synthesis, auditory object recognition, spatial
audio, music-analysis systems and applications of information theory to
perception.
The EMS, founded by Professor Barry Vercoe in 1973, was one of the great
innovating studios in the field. It was responsible for developing or
significantly improving technologies such as real-time digital synthesis,
live keyboard input, graphical score editing, graphical patching language=
s,
synchronization between natural and synthetic sound in composition, and
advanced music languages. In 1985, the EMS was integrated into the new MI=
T
Media Laboratory, to carry on its work in a new, cross-disciplinary conte=
xt
of multimedia research.
Professor Barry L. Vercoe is one of the great developers and popularizers
of computer-music technology. He is best known as the inventor of the
Music-360 (Vercoe, 1973) Music-11 (Vercoe, 1978), and Csound (Vercoe, 199=
6)
languages for digital music synthesis, which have been used by thousands =
of
composers around the world. He is a respected composer, teacher, and
software developer, and a broad thinker. His own publications span many
fields of research, from music theory (Vercoe, 1968) to signal processing
(Vercoe, 1982) to music perception (Vercoe 1997), to audio coding(Vercoe =
et
al., 1998), His students from the EMS and the Media Lab have seeded the
academic and industrial worlds of computer music and music technology.
-------------
Concert
--------------
A public concert at Kresge Auditorium (48 Massachusetts Avenue,
Cambridge) will conclude the symposium. The evening's performances will
include two world premiere pieces, a reworking of "At Last=85Free" for Ma=
x
Mathews' Radio Baton by Richard Boulanger and an interactive rendition
of "Synapse" for viola and computer by Barry Vercoe.
The EMS contributed several seminal compositions to the genre of Computer
Music, some of which will be performed at the May 21 concert. The concert
will include works by internationally recognized composers who worked at =
the
EMS: William Albright, Richard Boulanger, MIT Professor Peter Child, Jam=
es
Dashow, Mario Davidovsky, MIT Associate Professor Tod Machover, Jean Clau=
de
Risset, and MIT Professor Barry Vercoe. The performance will also feature
some of the most celebrated musicians in experimental music including
members of the Boston-based Collage New Music, MIT Professor Marcus Thomp=
son
(viola), David Horne (piano), Curtis Macomber (violin). Examples of the
technology developed at the EMS and the Media Lab will be on exhibit in
Kresge's lobby before the performance.
+-----------------+
| Eric Scheirer |A-7b5 D7b9|G-7 C7|Cb C-7b5 F7#9|Bb |B-7 E7|
|eds@media.mit.edu| < http://sound.media.mit.edu/~eds >
| 617 253 0112 |A A/G# F#-7 F#-/E|Eb-7b5 D7b5|Db|C7b5 B7b5|Bb|
+-----------------+
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Philip Aker
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Localization of CSound
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Composer: Philip Aker
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} > Also, such a solution would not port to Macs, since they are
} > currently non-POSIX systems.
} I think it may have already been ported to the mac. TCL/Tk uses
} gettext, and it runs on the mac. I'll try to research this and
} make sure.
In regards to POSIX compatibility, another avenue would be to
use GUSI. Check out the usage (and offsets) in both the
GhostScript and Python sources. I sure wish Metrowerks would
get their headers correct in this regard.
Philip
Philip Aker
Composer, Pianist
Suite 13
1405 West 11 Avenue
Vancouver BC
Canada V6H 1K9
philip@vcn.bc.ca
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Philip Aker
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: development qeustion
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Hans Timmermans <
} ...To do so we would like to open up the code of CSound and see
} if we can build a kind of plug-in architecture to make this
} tings possible.
M. Goggins has made many suggestions in this area. It would
be real peachy if the canonical sources showed some movement
towards a plugin architecture. I believe an XCOFF format would
adapt to the Macintosh with the least amount of hassle.
Philip
Philip Aker
Composer, Pianist
Suite 13
1405 West 11 Avenue
Vancouver BC
Canada V6H 1K9
philip@vcn.bc.ca
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From: Grant Covell
To: 'luis jure' ,
"Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: RE: Xenakis and Le Corbusier
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:54:55 -0400
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Yes, that's it. Is it still in use? I remember (not well as you can see)
that some work by Le Corbusier and Xenakis from around that was abandonded,
and seem to remember a slide of a grand concrete structure with weeds and
trees growing out of it.
It's always been interesting to me why Xenakis downplays his involvement in
Le Corbusier's atelier. I completely understand his reticence about the war,
but not about his architectural work.
> >[....] My memory of modern architecture
> >fails me--I could dredge up a book--but there's a particulr
> church with
> >irregularly spaced vertical concrete lines on the outside which are
> >completely attributable to Xenakis. The outside lines/patterns are
> >stochastic, a clear Xenakis hallmark of the time. I do think I read
> >somewhere (A liner note?) where IX admitted to this church.
>
>
> You are referring to the famous Ronchamp Chapel, near Lyon.
> (I think the
> real name is something like Notre-Dame-du-Haut). The funny
> thing is that
> this work is considered one of Le Corbusier's masterpieces,
> and one of the
> most important works in modern architecture.
>
> If you think about that, it's ironic that we should refer to
> Xenakis as one
> of the most important architects in XX Century.
>
> I also read not long ago an interview where Xenakis admitted
> he had played a
> decisive role in this and many other important works produced at Le
> Corbusier's studio during those years, some of which were his
> own designs.
> The interviewer was clearly interested in the subject, and how was it
> possible that Le Corbusier always had tried to hide the fact,
> but X was
> obviously unwilling to develop this further, that would leave
> Le Corbusier
> in a very bad spot indeed.
>
>
>
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From: Kanata Motohashi
To: Csound Mailing List
Subject: Information about Japanese manual
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:35:44 +0900
Organization: Stand Alone Records
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Thanks all,
The Japanese Csound manual is not completely translation from
"An Instrument Design TOOTorial" by Richard Boulanger 1991.
Kanata Motohashi
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From: Anders Andersson
To: The CSound mailinglist
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:38:59 +0200
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Subject: Repeat command in score (NOT section-wise)
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Hello dear audience! (And ffitch especially..)
Would it be hard to code a repeat opcode that's not bounded to repeat
sections, like:
r4
i31417 0 1 ; Find the hidden message! (I'm shure f1f0@m9ndfukc can =;p)
i. +
i.
i.
r0
It would be *VERY* appreciated, and useful!
As I've mentioned once before on this list, I don't like working with
external tools, but prefer to code the score by hand, but as it lacks this
feature it could be quite tedious sometimes!
If this one thing get's implemented, it would almost be a joy to work with
the score! =)
Things got MUCH better with the macro, [x+y] and include statements, It's
just this simple thing left! (And a couple of others, like not having to
set brackets around calculations and stuff..)
(The thing is that if one want's to have a specific thing repeated now, you
can't have for example a global reverb running across the sections, not in
a way I know of..)
I just came up with a crazy idea here..
How about totally rewriting the score parsing, and....
.. nah .. :)
// Anders (Nature rewlz! Remember that Maver|k! =D)
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:45:40 -0700
From: "Dr J.Stevenson's research assistant"
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To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Concert Announcement
Sounds like fun!!! I knew some SJSU students that studied in Bath
who would've luved to go!
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Subject: Re: Concert Announcement
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Sounds like fun!!! I knew some SJSU students that studied in Bath
who would've luved to go!
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Hosken ,
"Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: Re: Recommended Xenakis?
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:23:00 -0400
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To clarify my point, I don't disagree with you, but what I'm interested in,
in music, is just what happens if you do have only the tape and no knowledge
whatsoever of how it was made. What they used to call "absolute music" back
in the 19th century. Music that is completely without any programmatic or
performance reference, except for what you hear. Music for headphones, music
for listening to in bed just before going to sleep or for having on the car
radio, or music for listening to when you really just want to listen to
music without any distracting pictures.
I think computers have given us an instrument so powerful that we have not
even begun to comprehend it. We're like two year olds finding the piano keys
make sounds.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hosken
To: Michael Gogins ; Csound (E-mail)
Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Recommended Xenakis?
>>...snip...
>>I'm interested in how good they sound.
>>...snip...
>>I'm curious about how music is made so I
>>want to know how it was made, but I'd almost rather not know so that my
>>hearing would be colored only by the music itself.
>
>"My God! What has sound got to do with music?" --Charles Ives
>
>This may seem flip, but I agree with Ives that defining "music" as the
>resultant "sound" can obscure the human (or other) processes that produce
>that sound. In the case of some Xenakis pieces, perhaps the "music"
>includes knowledge of the process, just as for acoustic music the "music"
>includes the visual stimulus of the performers creating the piece. Just
>to take this a little further, the dissociation of sound from the visual
>source is part of what helps offstage playing invoke notions of the
>ethereal and gives tape-only music played in the concert hall the power
>to evoke other realms---so the apparent or hidden mechanics behind the
>production of sound can directly impact the perception of the "music."
>
>Dan Hosken
>dwhosken@alum.mit.edu
>
>
>
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From: Michael Gogins
To: Grant Covell ,
"Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: Re: Recommended Xenakis?
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:18:42 -0400
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I would add that Xenakis' book _Formalized Music_ has been an important
guide to me in pursuing my own composition and in evaluating other peoples'
computer music as well. Xenakis cut straight to the chase, was interested
only in forms that did not duplicate the human imagination's ruts, and was
interested only in methods of synthesis that did not endlessly repeat two
PI, as he put it. In any art imitation is a dangerous game.
John Cage also had a take on music that had little to do with imitation, and
a lot to do with how to listen.
What I look for in composing systems, and what I try to make with my
systems, is a method of churning out vast quantities of music in a hurry
that I will then pick through and weed out. The method should be one that
does NOT try to imitate existing musical forms. I trust my musical taste
much more than I trust my musical imagination. Better still if the technique
is one with knobs that I can tweak. Better, better still if the knobs have
some musically intelligible meaning.
The above should not be taken to mean that I look down my nose at imitation,
and I am quite interested in work such as David Cope's _Experiments in
Musical Intelligence_, only such work so far seems musically not so good yet
as more radical approaches. I don't think this is necessarily a permanent
situation.
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Covell
To: 'Michael Gogins' ; Csound (E-mail)
Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: Recommended Xenakis?
>You're 100% onto my point, and you said it much better. I should have been
>less glib.
>Knowing the intricacies of some Xenakis has taken the flash and bite out of
>it. But with Xenakis especially, some works (yes, I generalize) are about
>the realization of a process or complex system into music. Personally, I'm
>fascinated about the imposition of non-musical systems into music (one of
my
>compositions uses chess games translated into sound): A meaningful
structure
>in one context translated into a musical one. Sometimes it works, sometimes
>not. Xenakis does some of this, and I've been curious as to the
>how/why/what. And knowing more about some of the pieces has dissapointed me
>(Waarg, Eonta), some it has engaged me (Jonchaies, Persephassa).
>
>
>> Why should teetering anywhere remove the kick from music? Who
>> cares where
>> the sound waves come from, or how the composer corralled
>> them? At any rate,
>> I don't. I'm interested in how good they sound.
>>
>> It's true that knowing how they were made does affect my
>> perception of the
>> music, but I regard this as noise - I'm curious about how
>> music is made so I
>> want to know how it was made, but I'd almost rather not know
>> so that my
>> hearing would be colored only by the music itself.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Grant Covell
>> To: Csound (E-mail)
>> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 8:11 AM
>> Subject: FW: Recommended Xenakis?
>>
>>
>> >...discusses the UPIC software/tool he used for La Legende
>> >d'Eer. And of course Formalized Music is a major requirement for
>> >understanding just what makes Xenakis tick (though seeing
>> the line where
>> >music teeters between a realization of complex systems and
>> pure music is
>> >somewhat depressing as it takes the kick out of some of
>> Xenakis' music for
>> >me).
>>
>>
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Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:39:10 -0400
From: Tobias Kunze
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Subject: Re: Recommended Xenakis?
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> To clarify my point, I don't disagree with you, but what I'm interested in,
> in music, is just what happens if you do have only the tape and no knowledge
> whatsoever of how it was made. What they used to call "absolute music" back
> in the 19th century. Music that is completely without any programmatic or
> performance reference, except for what you hear.
Uh. I'm not sure you really mean what you say, but in case you
do, please allow me to clarify a few points here.
While aesthetics overall is a muddy field, it has been clear now
for centuries that there is no such thing as naive perception.
Unless you invest concepts in the first place, you don't perceive
at all. Your idea of such a "pure" perception only works in an
ontologically naive world without various candidate frameworks.
At times, the natural sciences still try to convey such an ontology
of "absolute" natural laws. However, a glimpse at the history of
science shows that this framework has always been elusive at best.
Surely, the domain of the arts would be even less disposed to
support that notion!
The case in point is that, simply, "x" is very different from "`x'".
In musical terms, very different things "happen" depending on
whether you consider intension or not, even for basic "sounds",
say, a gun shot, To be belunt, quite different would "happen"
depending on whether you hear this shot in a shooting range, a
movie, or your garden variety high school shooting, even if they
were identical "on tape".
Finally, as a correction: the idea of absolute music last century
does exactly *not* refer to the naive interpretation you suggest.
Quite contrarily, "absolute music" follows german idealistic
philosophy. Roughly, Schelling, Hegel, and Schopenhauer had promoted
music--qua its abstractness and immaterial nature--as the highest
art form and positioned it right underneath the "absolute" form of
Geist, philosophy itself. The idea idea of "absolute music" is
thus an expression of the desire of composers and theories in that
time to live up to these standards. For the complete rundown on
that topic, see Carl Dahlhaus' "The Idea of Absolute Music".
-Tobias
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From: Eric Scheirer
To: Tobias Kunze ,
Michael Gogins
Cc: "Csound (E-mail)"
Subject: Re: Recommended Xenakis?
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> The idea of "absolute music" is
>thus an expression of the desire of composers and theories in that
>time to live up to these standards. For the complete rundown on
>that topic, see Carl Dahlhaus' "The Idea of Absolute Music".
Excellent post, Tobias.
For those interested in this topic, I'd definitely recommend
Luke Windsor's dissertation, which is an exploration of the
relationship between the aesthetic and the perceived as particularly
embodied in acousmatic music and musique concrete.
-- Eric
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Subject: Re: Repeat command in score (NOT section-wise)
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Message written at 30 Apr 1999 11:06:13 +0100
--- Copy of mail to pipe@algonet.se ---
I seem to remember that gabriel has done something like this but I am
not sure if I have the code. Since my easter trip I have not managed
to get to grips with the dangling problem with Csound. Still only two
weeks of teaching left!
==John ffitch |