OK. Thank you, Alan (and Mary?). Now assuming the choice is between
Digi--the industry standard--and new kid Ensoniq, which would you choose?
I'm speaking to everyone here? It seems to me that with a $7,000 price
difference, Paris seems a pretty good choice. By the way, in addition to the
nonMidi fader control panel, all mixes in Paris are programmable (I assume
this is true ot Digi as well) which makes the 16 channel active limit per
card not such a real limit.
And by the way, thanks a million, everybody, for your thoughtful and wide
ranging responses to this question. It has helped enormously to clear up my
thinking.

Mary A Hestand wrote:

> Pro Tools 4 (24 bit)  - @ $8,000 plus the i/o.  Add $1000 for 16 bit,
> $3500 for the 24 bit in 20 bit out (which sounds as good as any recording
> medium I've heard - much better depth than before).
>
> @
> Alan Tubbs/Mary Hestand
> BadDog Productions
>
> On Sun, 31 May 1998 22:28:23 -0400 Carlton Wilkinson
>  writes:
> >What are the latest prices in ProTools? Did they drop at all? The
> >card,
> >software, interface, et al.
> >--
> >Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
> >http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >

and earlier about Paris:>PCI board with 6 chips for mixing and effects for
either Mac or Wintel
>Three versions of In/Out hardware -
>a:  Stereo i/o box
>b:  quad i/o,  S/PDFI i/o rackmount
>c:  modular rackmount box with the b already in place and 9 expansion
>slots for 8 in or out 24 bits expansion, ADAT lightpipe i/o
>16 channel fader table top with knobs for  aux and eq and transport
>control.
>recording/mixing software Mac or Wintel  - up to 24 bits but  no built in
>sequencer.
>Separate lite versions of Wavelab or Bias stereo editing software,
>although you can't run it through Paris' outputs.
>Can run all 16 channels on a133MHz PC or 150 MHz Mac with 4 eq's on each
>channel plus 8 subs (such as reverb)  or 16 channel inserts such as
>(compressors) in realtime with the PCI board doing the work - effects are
>like Ensonic's effect boxes.
>Can play a total 128 tracks at once, though all but 16 are premixed.
>Add as many PCI boards as your computer can hold, each playing 16 tracks
>as above.

>The reviewer stated that mixing a voice over project was kludgy, but that
>a recording project worked great, esp. being able to mix with the fader
>box - almost like analog.

--
Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm












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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:26:43 -0600 (CST)
From: "Pablo Silva-Escuela Nacional de Musica, UNAM" 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ensoniq Paris,etc.
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Hello everybody!

Just to contribute my two cents...

Having recently been in the critical situation of choosing hardware, all I
can say is that, whatever it is you buy, it pays to be absolutely sure the
equipment will do just what you need/want it to do, no less (and if
possibly more). And make that NOW, not next software upgrade, hardware
extension, phase of the moon, NAMM show. This should save some frustration
further down the line. This field changes almost too fast, and we
certainly see a lot of planned obsolescence around. If your gear does for
you what you really need it to, you'll find it easier to live with the
fact that your fabulous $5,000 system is now worth $500, or that the next
wave of ultra-duper-hip-credible does double as much for half the money.

As a matter of fact, I'd be hesistant to spend a lot on an external
peripheral based hardware system, the way things look now, even if money
wasn't the main point. I'd even skeptical of buying a ProTools system
right now! Although it's true that software-based systems are just getting
to a really usable point, it sure looks like the time of mostly harware
based systems is coming to a close. General purpose computers are just so
powerful nowadays, even the point of dedicated DSP chips is sometimes
called into question, as you can see by an article by Roger Dannenberg and
a co-author in a recent Computer Music Journal.

In your place, I would seriously look into different options for software
based systems, and basically get a really good audio card for your system
for audio I/O, and software that supports it. (Ah, but this is the point)
You could end up spending much less for a really usable system, if you've
already got some basic audio gear like a clean mixer... which you're going
to need no matter what!

Pablo Silva
Coordinator, Electronic Music Laboratory
Escuela Nacional de Musica, UNAM
Mexico
_________________________________________














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From: Robin Whittle 
Organization: First Principles
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 01:05:24 +1000
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Subject: V 3.481 compilation under Linux
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References: <19980529224049.7205.qmail@hotmail.com> (message from Paul	Winkler on Fri, 29 May 1998 15:40:48 PDT)
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I am trying to compile the April 28 source for Csound 3.481

  ftp://ftp.maths.bath.ac.uk/pub/dream/platforms/unix/Linux/Csound-3.481.Linux.src.tgz

under Red Hat 5.0 on a PPro.  (Kernel 2.0.31).

Compilation stops at "midirecv.c" because the compiler can't
find "".  I don't have any "bsd" directory under 
"/usr/include/".

Modifying "midirecv.c" to include "" (and therefore the file 
I do have at /usr/include/sgtty.h) results in various problems with 
undeclared identifiers "TIOCGETP", "EXTB", "RAW", "TIOCSETP" and a 
few other things . . . 

This source was put together by Dave Phillips, who did some work on 
this "midirecv.c" file - and I note that he recently posted to the 
list requesting information on "glibc":

> Date:          Thu, 21 May 1998 07:37:17 +0000
> From:          Dave Phillips 
> To:            Csound mail-list 
> Subject:       glibc & Linux Csound

> Greetings:
> 
>   I have received a number of requests for a fix to compile Csound
>   under
> Linux distributions running glibc. I do not run such a system and am
> unable to create the necessary patches. If anyone on the list has
> successfully compiled Csound under glibc, please notify me. I am
> planning a new Linux Csound distribution and I would like to include
> provisions for glibc users.
> 
>   Thank you,
> 
> == Dave Phillips

I emailed Dave, but haven't heard from him yet.  


I have never delved into libraries.  From some things I have read, it 
seems that Red Hat 2.0 to 4.2 used "libc 5", and that Red Hat 5.0 
uses "glibc" which may be a synonym for "libc 6".  

This has lead me to read a number of things - but I still don't 
understand what I need to compile the latest version of Csound.


For your interest, my reading list has included:

    GCC and ELF HOWTOs - both from 1996.

    ftp://tsx-11.mit.edu/pub/linux/packages/GCC/release.*

    http://egcs.cygnus.com/  (New open compiler development.)

    http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/docs/fsstnd/ 
           (Standardisation of the file system hierachy.)

    Glibc 2 HOWTO  8 Feb 1998

. . . and finally to:

    http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/libc.html
    (and various other files there)

which includes the fullest and most up-to-date information on "GNU 
Libc 2" AKA "glibc" AKA "libc-6" for Linux.

So it seems that some rewriting will be required if this MIDI In is 
to work under glibc (and therefore Red Hat 5.0 or 5.1).  I could 
chicken out and delete the MIDI receive functions - but I would 
prefer them to be there. 


- Robin


===============================================================

Robin Whittle     rw@firstpr.com.au  http://www.firstpr.com.au
                  Heidelberg Heights, Melbourne, Australia 

First Principles  Research and expression: music, Internet 
                  music marketing, telecommunications, human 
                  factors in technology adoption. Consumer 
                  advocacy in telecommunications, especially 
                  privacy. Consulting and technical writing. 

Real World        Electronics and software for music: eg.
Interfaces        the Devil Fish mods for the TB-303. 

===============================================================











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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:33:59 -0500
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Daniel Nass 
Subject: 4 400 16
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>Return-path: 
>Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 04:04:48 -0600
>From: antiorp@tezcat.com (=3Dcw4t7abs)
>Subject: 4 400 16
>Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
>To: Csound list 
>
>>I just got the pro-tools Powermix and audio-media package (AMIII card and
>>Pro-tools 4 software
>
>protoolz zukx
>
>
>>) which is now =A3400 giving you the software free.
>>There's 16 tracks of playback
>
>8
>
>>and 2 recording but it isn't TDM.
>
>tdm zukx
>
>
>>However I
>>would recommend it as it's got great editing and the sync etc is much=
 better
>>than VST.
>
>
>vst zukx
>
Now, who was it who said that "tabs" is intelligent and that it was
important to keep him on this list?

Daniel


******************************************************************

Daniel Nass                                   dnass@cctr.umkc.edu		=09
4316 Oak St Apt#3-S                                 (816)753-6954	=09
Kansas City MO 64111             http://cctr.umkc.edu/user/dnass/

"Wherever we are, what we hear is mostly noise. When we ignore it,=20
it disturbs us. When we listen to it, we find it fascinating."=20

							John Cage (1961)

******************************************************************

                                     	    =20











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Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:50:26 -0200 (GRNLNDDT)
From: Christian Lyra 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Why Csound?
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Hi, all!

	My two cents:

	Ok, there are a lot of great synths and samplers today (all out of
my student money :-( ), but if you look carefully you find that all lacks
something..." that synth have this really good lead, but you have only
ADSR envelops. This have a 8 stage envelop but only two oscilators..." and
the list goes... The Csound can give you the best from all synths, and
more!  Of course you have to give up realtime performance (at least), and
yoy have to spend some time to figure how things works (anyway, if you
have a good synth, you will have to spend time to learn how to use it
too).
	IMO, flexibility (and power) is what Csound is all about! You can
do (almost?) everything with it! And Csound can upgrade like no hardware
synth can!  DO you know any synth that can do granular synthesis?

	Thanks for your attention!


	Christian Lyra













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### -My reply follows quotes- At 11:33 -0500 6/1/98, Daniel Nass wrote:
>Now, who was it who said that "tabs" is intelligent and that it was
>important to keep him on this list?
>
>Daniel

I don't know who posted the intelligence ratings* for the csound list
members but according to your .sig, John Cage suggested that we keep
everyone on the list regardless:

>"Wherever we are, what we hear is mostly noise. When we ignore it,
>it disturbs us. When we listen to it, we find it fascinating."
>
>							John Cage (1961)

~~Charles

*If we can't agree on a benchmark for machines running Csound, how are we
going to benchmark intelligence?













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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 23:55:36 +0100
From: Richard Dobson 
Organization: Composers Desktop project
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Hello!

I have only just got back from a holiday, otherwise I would have joined
this list earlier - many thanks to jpff for setting it up.

I am working on the Sphinx card under the auspices of the Composers
Desktop Project, with a view to developing and promoting the system as a
powerful soundcard and/or audio accelerator - for example, to drive
advanced DirectShow (nee ActiveMovie) plugins, and to support work with
multi-channel files (quad, 6-channel).  Accordingly, I am especially
keen to see progress on system issues - the drivers, the APIs, etc,  to
support the development of new GUI applications. I am using Windows95
and VC++ V.5, so I am working exclusively with the 32bit driver
csound.vxd. I will be especially interested to know of, and hear from,
other developers working on this aspect of the system.

As I want to implement some CDP algorithms  on the card, the issues
surrounding the creation of new opcodes are very important; I am hoping
that the new release will include some XCS-specific header files, for
example.


Richard Dobson
Core Developer,
Composers Desktop Project












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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:03:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Why Csound?
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On Fri, 29 May 1998 antiorp@tezcat.com writes:
>!mag!nat!on =3D prokurd 4rom data.
>data !=3D grat!s.
>rezultat -
>1 =3D l!m!td by 1nz kasch kollekt!on

Nope...Imagination is procured from God--and it doesn't cost a penny!



>why.kap!tal!zm.

Because, with all its problems, it still works better than socialism.  Of
course, any system doesn't work too well in immoral or amoral societies,
of which we seem to have a great number these days...

Jason Clouse

----------------------------------
     email:jhclouse@juno.com
 "Linux--Don't Fear The Penguin!"
----------------------------------

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From: Micheal Allen Thompson 
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Csound and religion... oh no!!!!!!


M

On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jason H Clouse
wrote:

> On Fri, 29 May 1998 antiorp@tezcat.com writes:
> >!mag!nat!on =3D prokurd 4rom data.
> >data !=3D grat!s.
> >rezultat -
> >1 =3D l!m!td by 1nz kasch kollekt!on
> 
> Nope...Imagination is procured from God--and it doesn't cost a penny!
> 
> 
> 
> >why.kap!tal!zm.
> 
> Because, with all its problems, it still works better than socialism.  Of
> course, any system doesn't work too well in immoral or amoral societies,
> of which we seem to have a great number these days...
> 
> Jason Clouse
> 
> ----------------------------------
>      email:jhclouse@juno.com
>  "Linux--Don't Fear The Penguin!"
> ----------------------------------
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From: Hans Mikelson 
To: Csound 
Subject: Impulse Response Files Site
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:35:02 -0500
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Hi,

Someone pointed me to some impulse response files probably suitable for use
with Csound's convolve opcode.

http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/

This site is somewhat unreliable but slucia.wav is frighteningly real.  Does
anyone know of anymore impulse files, besides those in the archives?

Bye,
Hans Mikelson













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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:54:50 -0400
From: Carlton Wilkinson 
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To: Jason H Clouse , Csound list 
Subject: Re: Why Csound?
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>>why.kap!tal!zm.

>Because, with all its problems, it still works better than socialism.
Of
>course, any system doesn't work too well in immoral or amoral
societies,
>of which we seem to have a great number these days...

morality sucks.

That was my =cw4t7abs impersonation.
But it does suck, really, because it seems to imply decisions made for
nonphysical, inhuman reward. Regardless of where you come down on the
God thing, "moral" decisions can be made simply because society works
better with them than without them. If we strip away morality, we end up
still making the same practical decisions. It's still better not to
covet someone else's property; it's still better not to hurt somebody;
it's still better to be loyal and to be concerned for the welfare of
others. If we strip away the God-motivation, we (meaning most of these
societies you refer to) might get clearer results. (Then again, maybe
not.)
This is one of the (many) things that Gandhi recognized--that these
decisions have to be made, regardless of one's religious faith, for the
practical benefit of all mankind. And it is mankind's nature to make
them. That's why he refused to denounce aetheists, or any belief system
that professed a quest for the truth. The truth, in fact, became a
higher goal than God.
Go Gandhi. (And he was a very religious man.) We need more men like
that.

Sorry for the rant. I came unglued for a minute there.
--
Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm












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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:51:11 -0500
To: Drew Skyfyre 
From: tolve 
Subject: Re: Low cost Multi-track Software for Macs ?
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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>Anyone know of any low cost multitrack audio recording software for
>PowerMacs , especially shareware ?...

take a look at D-Sound Pro
http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Mac

hmm. check the digidesign site carefully. thought the free Protools 3.4
offer still valid.
http://www.digidesign.com

>Digital Performer  and the like I cannot afford, given my already
>stretched <d. budget .

understand Performer (motu's sequencing package) has added audio features.
http://www.motu.com

tolve













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Public Sub Uuurrrrrggg_Click()

	Far, far too much coffee has been consumed but the net result is a 
flashy new version (1.7) of Visual Orchestra to be released at the 
end of this week.     A quick run through of some of the new stuff,   
 a request for help,   a shout to Tim (???) Psychology at York (???) 
and then back to it.

++++++

Some of whats new,  barely mentioning the entire internal 
reworking....

MangoMIDI:   6 sliders for MIDI control of orchestra parameters in
real-time (requires compatible version of Csound and MIDI port)

Visualiser:    You can now import standard Csound scores into VisOrc
for graphical display and editing.   Orc's next,  but that might take 
a few years :-(

Added tool bar to main display with multimedia control to playback
audio files with minimum of fuss.

Multiple unit select in Orchestra:   Use the right button to select
more than one unit in the orchestra,    you can then move,  copy, 
delete and connect/disconnect in multiples.

View Orchestra/Score now shells to user defined text editor.   Compile
options to shell to audio editor or play sound internally.

Orchestra Load/Save reworked.    You can now import/export individual
instruments (and scores) into projects with more options.

Added 'Unsupported' unit.     Any line of Csound code not available as
a distinct graphical device in VisOrc can be added to your instrument.

Can copy (drag and drop) units between instruments.

Added Help button.  Click to display the 'notes' field of unit in
editor or drag and drop any unit onto it.

Can change parameter names

Can quickly add and remove unit parameters using the up and down 
buttons (Useful for optional parameters and units like multitap and 
linseg)

Dragging units onto the value boxes of parameters replaces the
selected text with the name of the unit being dragged.

Snap and Quantize options in score edit

Added Score menu with screen layout options.

Number of Fn Tables limited only be disk space.

++++++

	Now some help please.       I've added a path option to call a 
csound windows HLP file for general F1 usage but I'd like to 
incorporate context sensative help so pressing F1 while a unit was 
selected loaded the appropriate topic.    If anyone who has compiled 
a help file is interested in this compatability with VisOrc drop me a 
line with the topic names and numbers.

More info soon

End Sub


Dave Perry












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The Eastman School Csound tutorial makes extensive use of files in
Score11 format, which seems to be an in-house score and orchestra file
generator.  Has anyone asked Professor Schindler (tutorial author) if he
would make that program available for general use?  If I get no negative
response to this query here, I may request myself that he post it.

Steven Coolidge











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Subject: OT multicahnnel audio hardware for the Mac
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:42:43 +1000
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Yes, sorry about sending this to Csound list.  I am looking for an 
affordable multichannel hardware solution for the Mac, probably something 
that will connect digitally to ADAT for multispeaker playback situations.
Apart from the outrageously expensive but otherwise loveely ProTools 
hardware, what else is useable? I am looking at the 1212io by Korg.  Any 
testimonials?


---------------
Graeme Gerrard
Resonant Multimedia
ph. 6 13 9525 7869
"Somebody's been putting something in my food to make me paranoid." - PKD













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Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Wayne Freno 
To: Carlton Wilkinson 
Cc: Jason H Clouse , Csound list 
Subject: Re: Why Csound?
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Ahhhh, philosophy on the Csound list.  I love it! :-)
(especially when it makes sense like the message below)
Now, back to gen 17...

On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Carlton Wilkinson wrote:

> morality sucks.
> 
> That was my =cw4t7abs impersonation.
> But it does suck, really, because it seems to imply decisions made for
> nonphysical, inhuman reward. Regardless of where you come down on the
> God thing, "moral" decisions can be made simply because society works
> better with them than without them. If we strip away morality, we end up
> still making the same practical decisions. It's still better not to
> covet someone else's property; it's still better not to hurt somebody;
> it's still better to be loyal and to be concerned for the welfare of
> others. If we strip away the God-motivation, we (meaning most of these
> societies you refer to) might get clearer results. (Then again, maybe
> not.)
> This is one of the (many) things that Gandhi recognized--that these
> decisions have to be made, regardless of one's religious faith, for the
> practical benefit of all mankind. And it is mankind's nature to make
> them. That's why he refused to denounce aetheists, or any belief system
> that professed a quest for the truth. The truth, in fact, became a
> higher goal than God.
> Go Gandhi. (And he was a very religious man.) We need more men like
> that.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. I came unglued for a minute there.
> --
> Carlton Joseph Wilkinson
> http://excaliber.net/alex/wilkwrks.htm
> 
> 
> 

end soundbite













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From: Wayne Freno 
To: Steven Coolidge 
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Score11
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I, too, would like to be on Schindler's list.

On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Steven Coolidge wrote:

> The Eastman School Csound tutorial makes extensive use of files in
> Score11 format, which seems to be an in-house score and orchestra file
> generator.  Has anyone asked Professor Schindler (tutorial author) if he
> would make that program available for general use?  If I get no negative
> response to this query here, I may request myself that he post it.
> 
> Steven Coolidge
> 
> 

end soundbite