| Josh, you have highlight an issue which I've been interested in in the past.
I haven't read your message in detail but, from my point of view, I would
like some direct csound/sco type conversion which doesn't involve third
party software.
I have just started using Direct Csound and am delighted with the MIDI
functionality but would love to be able to save the MIDI as a sequence
(*.mid) file. I have found that doing some realtime csound processing with
control from a MIDI keyboard is quite a pleasant and flexible way of
working. It would be nice to be able to save the sequence without involving
a further strain on the computer with a third party sequencer.
Also, I would like to have conversion of MIDI data into a user definable
.sco file where duration of notes is supported (ie Note-off is interpreted
and applied to the duration field of the .sco file. This may be problematic
because, in the case of overlapping notes for the same pitch, I don't think
MIDI distinguishes between the note occurences (presumably based on the
assumption that any player would release a note before repeating it). So am
I right in thinking that the note-offs are difficult to handle?
Anyway, I for one would welcome some form of rudimentary MIDI
sequence-saving facility in csound and a MIDI to sco conversion system (I
know one exists already, but I would love to see a seamless operation, if
poss.)
I apologise to the programmers amongst you - I am completely ignorant of the
scale of this problem so forgive me.
Richard Bowers.
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:13:43 +0530
Subject: Re: sequencer Yes Virginnia, there is one !!!
From: Drew Skyfyre
To: joshwhiting@hotmail.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Rocky- the 22 tone equal temperament sequencer is at
http://www.oberlin.edu/~pblasser/rocky.html
Here's the announcement Peter Blasser made on the tuning list
in Feb :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:54:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Blasser
Subject: Rocky- the 22 tone equal temperament sequencer
Announcing Rocky. It is still in low phases of development, but it is
pretty operational right now. It generates only a csound score currently,
but I may add a MIDI capability. Unfortunately, I am low on documentation
skills, but I think you will be able to get around at least. Check out
www.oberlin.edu/~pblasser/rocky.html. The website is still unofficial, so
some links may not work, but if you want, you should also check out my
albums. Every one uses an alternative tuning or the another, and there is
a pretty large amount of real audio files.
-Peter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers,
Drew
--
______________________________________________________________
Drew Skyfyre email : skyfyre@Phreaker.net
web : http://skyfyre.webjump.com
"It was then that he thought of his life as an inside out sock
and wondered if calling himself by another name completely
might give him a bigger head start"
from "Not Thinking of Himself" by Jack Myers
______________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: sequencer Yes Virginnia, there is one !!!
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Drew Skyfyre wrote:
> Rocky- the 22 tone equal temperament sequencer is at
> http://www.oberlin.edu/~pblasser/rocky.html
I've used Rocky for quite a while (and it's been listed as a Csound
helper on the Linux soundapps page since it was released). It works
fine, but readers should be aware that the Java JDK 1.2 is required.
Earlier versions of Java may work but they will not render the interface
completely and certain functions won't be available. Use the JDK 1.2 and
it'll work great.
Long ago the CMJ reported a sequencer-type score editor written by Brett
Thierry. I tried to stay in touch with Brett, but I have no idea how to
contact him now. The editor was called ScoreViews (I think) and was
written for X. Anyone have any other info on that ?
== Dave Phillips
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html
http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Linux-soundapp/linux_soundapps.html
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From: J P Fitch
To: joshwhiting@hotmail.com
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: sequencer
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Quick answer -- Rosegarden is a notator/sequencer which can also generate
Csoudn scores. Unix only I am afraid (Windows version got lost in a disk
wipe out!). Longer answer when I have read teh message properly
btw, Rosegarden is GPL code.
==John
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Now in pub/dream/newest and also in the csound_win.zip file
Thanks again rasmus
==John
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:55:56 -0500
From: pete moss
Organization: pete moss GmbH
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well, i was actually referring to posts that had already been viewed.
the repeated posts arent new, i have read them before.
:P
James Andrews wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 1999 at 01:57:47PM -0500, pete moss wrote:
> > is anyone else getting old posts showing up. today i got two messages
> > from 7/8/99. it seems every few days, some old messages show up, from
> > old threads. anyone else having this problem, or is my machine belching
> > these from /dev/null ?
>
> Comment from list administrator, james@maths.ex.ac.uk
>
> Maybe you mean the messages which aren't posted to csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
> from a valid sender address...which then bounce to list admin...which I then
> forward when I have the time, which isn't that often
>
> Moral: please alway send your messages to csound@maths.ex.ac.uk from the
> email account you subscribed from. If you really need to use an alternative
> address for some reason..it can be done! Contact me
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:21:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Matt J. Ingalls"
To: joshwhiting@hotmail.com
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: sequencer
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i shouldnt mention this, because it is a LONG way off still - but a while
back
i started a csound graphic score/digtal mixer app for mac (and now would
probably be for beOS too) - i got to the point where you could drag i
cards around, launch "perf", and then mix resultant sound files.
its been on the "back-burner" for a while as it needs the obligatory
"strip-down and resturctured" stage now.
also, my ideas have been moving more and more toward a new paradigm for a
mixer app and less and less interested in supporting csound.
is "rt" open source? i would think it would be a breeze to hack in a
csound score (instead of a sound file).
-matt
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, James Andrews wrote:
>
> hello all
>
> i was following the list for a while but i lost email functionality for a
> while recently so i don't know if this topic has come up at all...
>
> does anyone know of or is anyone currently developing a sequencer for csound
> or dcsound? I am astounded at the potential and power of csound, but i am
> almost completely stifled by the text based score format required to create
> compositions. I understand that csound supports MIDI and that I could use a
> MIDI sequencer to compose, but as i see it, this is not a solution, because
> when using MIDI much of the functionality of the instrument is lost. you
> are left with pitch, velocity, and a few limited MIDI capabilities like
> pitch bend, modulation, aftertouch, etc. Unfortunately these functions are
> limited and are difficult to implement in a controlled and flexible way with
> a MIDI sequencer.
>
> as a result, i propose a sequencer, similar to your average or below-average
> MIDI sequencer, except instead of keeping track of the song by MIDI data, it
> would drop MIDI entirely and focus on the design and flexilbity of csound.
> As an example of a key feature, one would be able to directly specificy
> things like instrument arguments for each note, while maintaining the
> visual, user-oriented environment of MIDI sequencers like cakewalk or
> digital orchestrator. The ability to select a section of the sequence and
> render it alone, even with the ability to mute out or single out specific
> instruments or "tracks", would also be crucial, and is an unquestioned
> feature of any MIDI sequencer, yet is difficult to implement in csound
> without much modificaiton of text files, etc. Imagine having all the
> standard tools of a MIDI-style sequencer *and* the standard flexibility of
> csound all at your disposal. Change general volumes easily, transpose a few
> bars here or there up or down, move this part of the song over there, copy
> and paste this onto that, change a melody's instrument instantantly, adjust
> the reverb for this track, visually adjust the rhythm and pitch of your
> melodies, etc etc etc etc.
>
> I am talking about software that molds the power of csound in a way that is
> more condusive and effective for the musical mind. Csound is an extremely
> powerful tool for both the creative and rational mind, but it leaves the
> musician's mind in the waiting room while the rational mind changes this,
> tweaks that, etc., leaving so little room for the process of creative
> expression. Many times i have devoted my csound time to thinking in and
> around csound, and not in and around my music. If both the rational and
> musical minds can be accomodated comfortably, without either one having to
> make a big sacrfice, then csound as a medium would become immeasuarbly more
> powerful.
>
> I would take the time myself to code such a sequencer, simply because i can
> forsee the benefits of it, unfortunately i am only familiar with DOS Turbo
> Pascal as a programming language, and coding a DOS-based application of this
> type would, i am sure, waste a lot of my time on things that windows and
> object oriented programming makes into a breeze.
>
> whew. any thoughts?
>
> josh whiting
> joshwhiting@hotmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
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From: Dave Phillips
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"Matt J. Ingalls" wrote:
> is "rt" open source? i would think it would be a breeze to hack in a
> csound score (instead of a sound file).
I don't think it's exactly a GPL'd program, but the sources for RT are
available. I think Guenter Geiger has them, and Paul Lansky may supply
them if asked. They are already available on the Princeton server as
.rt.src.tar.gz (sic).
== Dave Phillips
http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html
http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Linux-soundapp/linux_soundapps.html
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From: Michael Gogins
To: joshwhiting@hotmail.com, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
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Subject: Re: sequencer
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Two points here.
First, Csound supports MIDI control messages. These may be sufficient for
your purposes. There are various "slider" goodies around for realtime
control of instrument parameters in Csound using MIDI control messages.
Second, I am working to adapt Csound to various plugin formats including
JavaSound and VST 2. This is slow going and I may have to rewrite the Csound
kernel in order to have a maintainable application in the end. The reason is
that Csound is driven by score events, but plugins need to be driven by
their hosts. I am sure I will be able to solve this problem, which is not a
large one, but I am not sure what the final form will be.
But for your purposes, the plugin version of Csound will be able to receive
realtime score events as well as realtime MIDI messages. This could
certainly be the basis for a score-driven sequencer. In fact, I will look
into doing a Buzz machine plugin interface for Csound so that that Buzz, a
tracker, can use Csound in addition to its native synthesizers and sound
processors. Buzz machines use custom text-driven inputs; the information is
simiilar to MIDI but can contain additional parameters.
Realtime score events are simpler than realtime MIDI events. In fact, I have
already implemented and tested programmatically driven realtime score events
in AXCsound, but I have not yet uploaded the latest version because I am
working on streaming audio into and out of Csound for plugins.
In the new version of AXCsound, realtime score events can be sent to Csound
from Visual Basic, C++, or Java programs.
As soon as I have the JavaSound interfaces working for MIDI input and audio
input and output, I will upload the new version of AXCsound.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Andrews
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 7:56 AM
Subject: sequencer
>
>hello all
>
>i was following the list for a while but i lost email functionality for a
>while recently so i don't know if this topic has come up at all...
>
>does anyone know of or is anyone currently developing a sequencer for
csound
>or dcsound? I am astounded at the potential and power of csound, but i am
>almost completely stifled by the text based score format required to create
>compositions. I understand that csound supports MIDI and that I could use
a
>MIDI sequencer to compose, but as i see it, this is not a solution, because
>when using MIDI much of the functionality of the instrument is lost. you
>are left with pitch, velocity, and a few limited MIDI capabilities like
>pitch bend, modulation, aftertouch, etc. Unfortunately these functions are
>limited and are difficult to implement in a controlled and flexible way
with
>a MIDI sequencer.
>
>as a result, i propose a sequencer, similar to your average or
below-average
>MIDI sequencer, except instead of keeping track of the song by MIDI data,
it
>would drop MIDI entirely and focus on the design and flexilbity of csound.
>As an example of a key feature, one would be able to directly specificy
>things like instrument arguments for each note, while maintaining the
>visual, user-oriented environment of MIDI sequencers like cakewalk or
>digital orchestrator. The ability to select a section of the sequence and
>render it alone, even with the ability to mute out or single out specific
>instruments or "tracks", would also be crucial, and is an unquestioned
>feature of any MIDI sequencer, yet is difficult to implement in csound
>without much modificaiton of text files, etc. Imagine having all the
>standard tools of a MIDI-style sequencer *and* the standard flexibility of
>csound all at your disposal. Change general volumes easily, transpose a
few
>bars here or there up or down, move this part of the song over there, copy
>and paste this onto that, change a melody's instrument instantantly, adjust
>the reverb for this track, visually adjust the rhythm and pitch of your
>melodies, etc etc etc etc.
>
>I am talking about software that molds the power of csound in a way that is
>more condusive and effective for the musical mind. Csound is an extremely
>powerful tool for both the creative and rational mind, but it leaves the
>musician's mind in the waiting room while the rational mind changes this,
>tweaks that, etc., leaving so little room for the process of creative
>expression. Many times i have devoted my csound time to thinking in and
>around csound, and not in and around my music. If both the rational and
>musical minds can be accomodated comfortably, without either one having to
>make a big sacrfice, then csound as a medium would become immeasuarbly more
>powerful.
>
>I would take the time myself to code such a sequencer, simply because i can
>forsee the benefits of it, unfortunately i am only familiar with DOS Turbo
>Pascal as a programming language, and coding a DOS-based application of
this
>type would, i am sure, waste a lot of my time on things that windows and
>object oriented programming makes into a breeze.
>
>whew. any thoughts?
>
>josh whiting
>joshwhiting@hotmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
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From: Michael Gogins
To: richard bowers ,
joshwhiting@hotmail.com
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Cc: csound csound
Subject: Re: sequencer
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:04:23 -0400
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MIDI note offs are not difficult to handle if you use a push-down stack of
running instrument instances for each MIDI channel/MIDI key slot. Note on
messages push an instrument instance onto the stack, and note off messages
pop an instrument instance off the stack. This is not perfect, but it works
well enough.
In my view, the MIDI opcodes of Csound should be supplemented by an option
to translate MIDI channel messages into score events and do the
pushing/popping to handle note on/note off. Then people could develop,
debug, and maintain one single instrument definition that would work for
both realtime and nonrealtime synthesis.
In this option, note on events would create instrument instances with
negative p3, and note off events would pop an instance and set its p3 to the
positive value of the current elapsed instrument time. When used with
timout, I believe this would enable an instrument to trap the note off and
extend p3 again, or invoke ihold, to perform a decay before actually turning
itself off. This would work for both score events and MIDI events.
-----Original Message-----
From: richard bowers
To: joshwhiting@hotmail.com
Cc: csound csound
Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: sequencer
>Josh, you have highlight an issue which I've been interested in in the
past.
>I haven't read your message in detail but, from my point of view, I would
>like some direct csound/sco type conversion which doesn't involve third
>party software.
>
>I have just started using Direct Csound and am delighted with the MIDI
>functionality but would love to be able to save the MIDI as a sequence
>(*.mid) file. I have found that doing some realtime csound processing with
>control from a MIDI keyboard is quite a pleasant and flexible way of
>working. It would be nice to be able to save the sequence without involving
>a further strain on the computer with a third party sequencer.
>
>Also, I would like to have conversion of MIDI data into a user definable
>.sco file where duration of notes is supported (ie Note-off is interpreted
>and applied to the duration field of the .sco file. This may be problematic
>because, in the case of overlapping notes for the same pitch, I don't think
>MIDI distinguishes between the note occurences (presumably based on the
>assumption that any player would release a note before repeating it). So am
>I right in thinking that the note-offs are difficult to handle?
>
>Anyway, I for one would welcome some form of rudimentary MIDI
>sequence-saving facility in csound and a MIDI to sco conversion system (I
>know one exists already, but I would love to see a seamless operation, if
>poss.)
>
>I apologise to the programmers amongst you - I am completely ignorant of
the
>scale of this problem so forgive me.
>
>Richard Bowers.
>
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From: Richard Dobson
Organization: Composers Desktop Project
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To: csound csound
Subject: Re: sequencer
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There is still the other aspect of the question, which as I understand
it asks about the possibility of some sort of Csound sequencer
(Cquencer?). Presumably graphic, with lots of drag-n-drop. The issue is,
how might this work, with possibly 50 pfields per event, 47 of which can
be virtually ~anything~ (but which must be correct for the given
instrument)?
What has already been done, that could be developed further (ZIPI?
NetSound?)? What is the simplest design that would be musically useful,
and yet a step further than MIDI?
Richard Dobson
Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> MIDI note offs are not difficult to handle if you use a push-down stack of
> running instrument instances for each MIDI channel/MIDI key slot. Note on
> messages push an instrument instance onto the stack, and note off messages
> pop an instrument instance off the stack. This is not perfect, but it works
> well enough.
>
[etc]
--
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From: richard bowers
To: Michael Gogins
Cc: csound csound
References: <000f01bed55f$b4ce9740$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Subject: Re: sequencer
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:32:47 +0100
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I'm quite keen to see (in addition to realtime MIDI handling and saving) the
opportunity to run the non-continuous MIDI events from a MIDI sequence
(maybe after conversion to a score) in non-realtime so that I can work with
standard score pfields: ie. so that the note durations are already known to
the instrument, so to speak.
ie.
channel number may be assigned to the p1
note on - p2, note off p3
everything else definable eg. velocity to p4 etc.
This may seem like some sort of step backwards but it would be useful if you
want to get absolute control over pvoc timepoints etc. over the p3 duration.
From: Michael Gogins
Subject: Re: sequencer
> MIDI note offs are not difficult to handle if you use a push-down stack of
> running instrument instances for each MIDI channel/MIDI key slot. Note on
> messages push an instrument instance onto the stack, and note off messages
> pop an instrument instance off the stack. This is not perfect, but it
works
> well enough.
>
> In my view, the MIDI opcodes of Csound should be supplemented by an option
> to translate MIDI channel messages into score events and do the
> pushing/popping to handle note on/note off. Then people could develop,
> debug, and maintain one single instrument definition that would work for
> both realtime and nonrealtime synthesis.
>
> In this option, note on events would create instrument instances with
> negative p3, and note off events would pop an instance and set its p3 to
the
> positive value of the current elapsed instrument time. When used with
> timout, I believe this would enable an instrument to trap the note off and
> extend p3 again, or invoke ihold, to perform a decay before actually
turning
> itself off. This would work for both score events and MIDI events.
>
|