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MIDI out fir Csound

Date1997-04-07 19:58
FromJoerg Spix
SubjectMIDI out fir Csound
Hi folks,

I think there night be one reason for MIDI out in Csound:

Controlling non-musical equipment like light, image etc.

I think it would be nice to have the possibility of light control.

The score is deterministic, but if you use instruments with random opcodes
and communicate the resulting values to other instruments by global
variables (bad way, I know), you can do non-deterministic algorithmic
composition with Csound and so you might even have non-deterministic light
control. Simlply sync-ing is
not enough is this case.

Any other opinions about that?

joerg


(Joerg.Spix@informatik.uni-oldenburg.de)





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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Berry 
To: Joerg Spix 
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: MIDI out fir Csound
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	I still think its better to control both csound and the lights
from some other program.

Mike Berry
mikeb@mills.edu
http://www.mills.edu/PEOPLE/gr.pages/mikeb.public.html/mikeb.homepage.html




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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:43:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Micheal Allen Thompson 
To: Joerg Spix 
Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: MIDI out fir Csound
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TRUE.... Interesting idea....



Michael

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Joerg Spix wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> I think there night be one reason for MIDI out in Csound:
> 
> Controlling non-musical equipment like light, image etc.
> 
> I think it would be nice to have the possibility of light control.
> 
> The score is deterministic, but if you use instruments with random opcodes
> and communicate the resulting values to other instruments by global
> variables (bad way, I know), you can do non-deterministic algorithmic
> composition with Csound and so you might even have non-deterministic light
> control. Simlply sync-ing is
> not enough is this case.
> 
> Any other opinions about that?
> 
> joerg
> 
> 
> (Joerg.Spix@informatik.uni-oldenburg.de)
> 
> 
> 




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Greetings,

	Has anyone recently compiled an linux elf version of csound 
with all the latest? (soundin2, soundinew, etc...)  One that can
output to -odac?  I don't see this release on bath.

Thanks,

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
     John Boyd (jboyd@protozoa.com)
     Lasciate ogni speranza voi che entrate.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-



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From: Arne Hanna 
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If anyone could provide the URL for the Mathematica composition system, I
would be very grateful.
Cheers
Arne





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If anyone could provide the URL for the Mathematica composition system, I
would be very grateful.
Cheers
Arne





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Greetings,

	Has anyone recently compiled an linux elf version of csound 
with all the latest? (soundin2, soundinew, etc...)  One that can
output to -odac?  I don't see this release on bath.

Thanks,

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
     John Boyd (jboyd@protozoa.com)
     Lasciate ogni speranza voi che entrate.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-



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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 21:31:01 -0500
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: tolve 
Subject: intuitive volume control?
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i see at least three methods of referring to volume in csound.

first amplitude: measured in what?

sound intensity measured in decibels: a bit more intuitive for my purposes,
but different frequencies at the same decibel level do not sound equally
loud. (i've been listening and reading)

Score
;				volume
f1	0	8192	10	1

is that 1 underneath volume, 100% of a sone, the measured level of
subjective loudness?

hmm. any chance i can use sones to express volume within the envelopes in
my orc?

please explain as simply as possible. but any response would be most
welcome. i seek the surest method to allow my eyes to hear the numbers on
the page.

yours,
tolve





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Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:08:38 -0400
From: Gregory Boduch 
Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu
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tolve wrote:

 [...]
 
> but different frequencies at the same decibel level do not sound > equally loud. (i've been listening and reading)
> 
> please explain as simply as possible. but any response would be most
> welcome. 

 [...]
 
See  "Elements of Computer Music," by F. Richard Moore, page 21, for a
discussion of subjective loudness. You will find a formula there,
L = C * (I^1/3). It can be implemented in the form
IL = 10 * ( ln ( ( ( sones / Hz )^3 ) / 10^-12 ) / ln 10 ), for
example:

;-------sonetest.orc---------------------------

sr=44100
kr=441
ksmps=100
nchnls=2

instr 1

ifq=cpspch(p4+4)
isones=p5

asones expseg  .1,.1,isones,p3-.11,isones,.01,.1

ares1 apow asones/ifq, 3, 1
ires2 ipow 10,-12

adb=10*((log((ares1)/ires2))/log(10))
ampenv=ampdb(adb)
amp=ampenv
 
asig oscili amp,ifq,1

outs  asig, asig

endin
 
;------------sonetest.sco-------------------------------
 
f1 0 1024  10  1
 
;sones  ---  !According to the equation these might sound equally loud!
i1 0    1   1.00  2.816
i1 1.5  1   2.00  
i1 3    1   3.00  
i1 4.5  1   4.00  
i1 6    1   5.00  
i1 7.5  1   6.00  
i1 9    1   7.00  
i1 10   1   8.00  
e
 


You will not get satisfactory results, however, because of the nonlinear
response of the ear, nonflat frequency response of your sound system,
and because the formula is an approximation.


GB



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From: Michael Pelz-Sherman 
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To: gb141@columbia.edu
Subject: Re: intuitive volume control?
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> You will not get satisfactory results, however, because of
> the nonlinear response of the ear, nonflat frequency response
> of your sound system, and because the formula is an
> approximation.

Yes, the well-known "Fletcher-Munson" curves are anything *but* linear! The ear is MUCH more sensitive to frequencies  
around 1 KHz. This is why you have "loudness" controls on most home stereos - they boost the bass and treble range to  
give you more *perceived* loudness without actually increasing amplitude that much.

This whole issue gets *really* hairy when you start dealing with complex waveforms instead of sine waves. Bottom  
line: you simply can't "read" a Csound score! Get a fast machine & a really good set of headphones, and let your ears  
be the judge.

- mps

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 23:08:38 -0400
From: Gregory Boduch 
Reply-To: gb141@columbia.edu
Organization:  but different frequencies at the same decibel level do not sound > equally loud. (i've been listening and reading)
>
> please explain as simply as possible. but any response would be most
> welcome.

 [...]

See  "Elements of Computer Music," by F. Richard Moore, page 21, for a
discussion of subjective loudness. You will find a formula there,
L = C * (I^1/3). It can be implemented in the form
IL = 10 * ( ln ( ( ( sones / Hz )^3 ) / 10^-12 ) / ln 10 ), for
example:

;-------sonetest.orc---------------------------

sr=44100
kr=441
ksmps=100
nchnls=2

instr 1

ifq=cpspch(p4+4)
isones=p5

asones expseg  .1,.1,isones,p3-.11,isones,.01,.1

ares1 apow asones/ifq, 3, 1
ires2 ipow 10,-12

adb=10*((log((ares1)/ires2))/log(10))
ampenv=ampdb(adb)
amp=ampenv

asig oscili amp,ifq,1

outs  asig, asig

endin

;------------sonetest.sco-------------------------------

f1 0 1024  10  1

;sones  ---  !According to the equation these might sound equally loud!
i1 0    1   1.00  2.816
i1 1.5  1   2.00
i1 3    1   3.00
i1 4.5  1   4.00
i1 6    1   5.00
i1 7.5  1   6.00
i1 9    1   7.00
i1 10   1   8.00
e



You will not get satisfactory results, however, because of the nonlinear
response of the ear, nonflat frequency response of your sound system,
and because the formula is an approximation.


GB




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Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:55:27 +0200
From: Gabriel Maldonado 
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To: Robin Whittle 
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Subject: Re: Realtime MIDI Csound: New midi OUT opcodes
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Dear Robin,
you wrote:
 
> Regarding MIDI Out in real-time from Csound,
> I think this would be useful ...
> ....................................... 
> This is primarily because I am interested in using "generative"
> "compositional" approaches, and because I want to do this from Csound
> and use analogue synthesiser sounds too.

Thanks for the encouragement. I think I will make a unique version in 
which MIDI OUT and/or AUDIO OUT can be optionally be disabled by 
command line flags, if a particualr use requires it. 

bye and happy csounding
-- 
Gabriel Maldonado

mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm





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Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 18:55:13 +0200
From: Gabriel Maldonado 
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To: Larry Troxler , 
    Micheal Allen Thompson 
Cc: Csound Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Realtime MIDI Csound: New midi OUT opcodes
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Micheal Allen Thompson wrote:

> Well, there was the free CMU toolkit for Macintosh and unix. I think
> people still use it but I dont know the version or whatever. It is
> completely open ended and you could code until you cant code anymore all
> of your home grown midi processes. On the PC the only thing that I know
> of are small algo type programs in shareware form. I would think that
> you would do better to code your own midi app instead of dealing with
> csound and real-time midi control. I dont know.... maybe take the midi
> sources from csound and roll your own app from them.... not my idea of
> fun but..... Common music has all of this already and runs on many
> platforms....


Larry Troxler wrote:
 
> I'm afraid I have to agree with the other opinions - MIDI out on csound
> doesn't make sense! If you want to do algorithmic music generation, there
> are much better tools for the job - KeyKit, Common Music, Max, Moxie, etc.

I will implement it anyway in next version. New UGs will not compromise
normal behaviour of realtime Csound, so, if you aren't interested in
MIDI OUT UGs simply ignore them.

Best.
-- 
Gabriel Maldonado

mailto:g.maldonado@agora.stm.it
http://www.agora.stm.it/G.Maldonado/home2.htm





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From: omni 
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: LPC on Csound
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 97 12:12:45
Comment: Turkce karekter filtresinden gecirildi.
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Dear Sirs,

I have some difficulties with LPC on Csound. 
The csound manual doesn't help me much,so I couldn't gather my theory with
Csound LPC commands.

We know the traditional LPC definition is y(n)=x(n)+sigma(i=1,M)bi*y(n-i)

So far as I understand, x(n) is here the "asig" argument for lpreson .
But what use have the krmsr,krmso,kerr,kcps parameters of lpread and how do we
use them. It will be very helpful for me,if someone mails me also an example
.orc and
.sco.

Thanks for your interest.

Best regards,

Sinan Boekesoy
E-mail:omni@doruk.com.tr 




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From: Peter Kearton 
Organization:  Psychology Dept, Surrey Univ. U.K.
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date:          Tue, 8 Apr 1997 12:38:21 GMT
Subject:       HRTFs on PC
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Hi again,
        This is just a request for information on whether the HRTFs 
opcode that John fixed for PCs is included in Csound for PC on the 
Bath server yet,

                Thanks,
                
                    Pete Kearton 


*************************************************
Peter Kearton,
University of Surrey Psychology Department,
Guildford,
United Kingdom.
GU2 5XH
Tel. UK (01483) 300800 Ext.3346
e-mail - P.kearton@surrey.ac.uk
*************************************************

Date1997-04-07 23:37
FromMike Berry
SubjectRe: MIDI out fir Csound
	I still think its better to control both csound and the lights
from some other program.

Mike Berry
mikeb@mills.edu
http://www.mills.edu/PEOPLE/gr.pages/mikeb.public.html/mikeb.homepage.html

Date1997-04-07 23:43
FromMicheal Allen Thompson
SubjectRe: MIDI out fir Csound
TRUE.... Interesting idea....



Michael

On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Joerg Spix wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> I think there night be one reason for MIDI out in Csound:
> 
> Controlling non-musical equipment like light, image etc.
> 
> I think it would be nice to have the possibility of light control.
> 
> The score is deterministic, but if you use instruments with random opcodes
> and communicate the resulting values to other instruments by global
> variables (bad way, I know), you can do non-deterministic algorithmic
> composition with Csound and so you might even have non-deterministic light
> control. Simlply sync-ing is
> not enough is this case.
> 
> Any other opinions about that?
> 
> joerg
> 
> 
> (Joerg.Spix@informatik.uni-oldenburg.de)
> 
> 
>