Re: sound synthesis languages?

Date	1998-03-17 13:35
From	Michael Gogins
Subject	Re: sound synthesis languages?
	There are many sound synthesis and signal processing langauges designed at different times, by different people or institutions, for different purposes. Check out a page of many links such as the International Computer Music Association or Harmony Central (you can find them by doing a Web search for them), and you should be able to get to many of these languages in a few jumps. Csound is neither the best nor the worst of these languages, but it does contain most of the commonly used analysis and synthesis algorithms, it runs on more different kinds of computers than any other system, it was the first usable software synthesis language that could run on a regular IBM compatible PC, it is relatively small and fast, and it is free. Unlike (to the best of my knowledge) any of the other synthesis languages with the exception of Cmix, Csound has been worked on and contributed to for years by a small community of dedicated users and programmers. So there are good reasons it is more popular. I use it myself for all of these reasons. The Cmix language, which runs only on Unix and perhaps on Macintosh, is in some ways more powerful. There are some languages written in Lisp such as Fugue (though I have not looked at them). And there are dedicated systems which consist of DSP hardware plus special-purpose software, for example the Kyma language with its Capybara box, which is a commercial product and fairly widely used. -----Original Message----- From: Qian Chen To: Csound Date: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 7:40 AM Subject: sound synthesis languages? >Hi there, > >I understand that all of us in this mailing list are Csounders. But >Sometimes I could read something about other sound synthesis >languages, such as Cmix, Ceicilia etc. Is there any other sound >synthesis language? Could someone explain me the comparison of those >languages, since I know very little about other languages except >Csound. Furthermore, what is the best and the worst of Csound? > >Regards >Qian Chen > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03814; 17 Mar 98 14:34 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11765; 17 Mar 98 14:33 GMT Received: (qmail 11575 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 14:33:58 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 14:33:58 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA22471); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:20:52 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 14:20:32 GMT Received: from sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14] by hermes via ESMTP (OAA23222); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:20:25 GMT Received: from brutus (root@find3-cs-1.dial.bright.net [205.212.145.164]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with SMTP id JAA01377; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:19:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <350E88FA.EDD58F6@bright.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:30:18 -0500 From: Dave Phillips X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i486) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Csound Subject: News for Linux Csounders Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Csound 3.477 is now available in binary and source distribution packages. Binaries (X and non-X) can be found here: ftp://mustec.bgsu.edu/pub/linux/Csound-3.477.Linux.bin.tgz and the source package is at: ftp://mustec.bgsu.edu/pub/linux/Csound-3.477.Linux.src.tgz The MIDI input problem remains unresolved in this release. I don't have the equipment to continuously test it, and I have had problems recompiling my kernel. I will continue to try to fix the problem, but I felt that this release should be made public anyway. Also, a page has been created with information for signing onto a Linux audio development discussion group. It is at: http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/lad.html and I encourage all interested Linux people to sign on. And finally, the Linux Soundapps page has been updated and revised. Some new headings have been added, and much reorganization has taken place. Many new links have been added as well. Go to: http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linux_soundapps.html to check it out. == Dave Phillips http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linux_soundapps.html Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03846; 17 Mar 98 14:36 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11919; 17 Mar 98 14:35 GMT Received: (qmail 20465 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 14:36:18 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 14:36:18 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (OAA24283); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:11:57 GMT Received: from dns0 by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 14:11:38 GMT Received: from sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14] by sunny via ESMTP (OAA22267); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:07:41 GMT Received: from brutus (root@find3-cs-1.dial.bright.net [205.212.145.164]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with SMTP id JAA27322; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:05:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <350E85C0.4B439526@bright.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:16:32 -0500 From: Dave Phillips X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i486) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Qian Chen Cc: Csound Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? References: <19980317120504.6657.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Check out Tim Thompson's PLUM page, it's a list of programming languages used for music: http://www.nosuch.com/plum == Dave Phillips http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/index.html http://www.bright.net/~dlphilp/linux_soundapps.html Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07207; 17 Mar 98 17:55 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28741; 17 Mar 98 17:54 GMT Received: (qmail 15921 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 17:49:52 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 17:49:52 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (RAA24899); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:37:31 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 17:37:12 GMT Received: from mail.infohouse.com [206.30.88.4] by hermes via ESMTP (RAA07152); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:37:06 GMT Received: from [208.151.41.218] ([208.151.41.217]) by milhouse.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 141-39833U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA128; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:35:08 -0500 X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980317120504.6657.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" To: Qian Chen , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork From: tolve Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:35:08 -0500 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Qian wrote: >I understand that all of us in this mailing list are Csounders. But >Sometimes I could read something about other sound synthesis >languages, such as Cmix, Ceicilia etc. Is there any other sound >synthesis language? Could someone explain me the comparison of those >languages, since I know very little about other languages except >Csound. Furthermore, what is the best and the worst of Csound? Cecilia is a kick-ass interface for csound. ftp://ftp.musique.umontreal.ca/pub/cecilia together they look to be a formidable war machine. what impresses me are the types of interface choices available within them: easy to use and novice programmable cecilia controllers on top; a scripting language within cecilia to get deeper; csound with its multitude of opcodes; and for those fully sentient godlike creatures among us: the actual source code of csound -open and alterable. someone correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't see these levels of prefabricated choices anywhere else. of course you need not choose only one program! KYMA is expensive. Super Collider looks cool but better than cecilia/csound? costs a few hundred. also take a look at DSpyder (www.duy.es). Haven't seen it lately myself, but had been turned off by its limited control of envelopes, a common problem with most commercial software. have seen someone comment that cmix is not supported much these days. perhaps another would care to refute? go ahead and download grainwaves (shareware). it seems straightforward and has an expressive realtime interface: http://www.nmol.com/users/mikeb lately, i have been coming under some peer pressure to switch to max. this is a commercial program known for its excellent utilization of midi, which i currently do not use. is it suddenly a match for synthesis in cecilia/csound? have tried in the past to incite a debate over the best, but am now quite happy right here utilizing a program i someday hope to understand. my blind faith resting on the community that supports it. happy csounding, tolve Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07958; 17 Mar 98 18:47 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03169; 17 Mar 98 18:46 GMT Received: (qmail 12992 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 18:46:56 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 18:46:56 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA11816); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:38:30 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 18:38:12 GMT Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.88] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA01676); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:37:52 GMT Received: from IDENT-NOT-QUERIED@Princeton.EDU (port 4576 [128.112.128.81]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <542508-24881>; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:37:20 -0500 Received: from silvertone.Princeton.EDU by Princeton.EDU (5.65b/2.139/princeton) id AA12834; Tue, 17 Mar 98 13:36:52 -0500 Received: (from dan@localhost) by silvertone.Princeton.EDU (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA09770; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:36:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:36:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Trueman To: tolve Cc: Qian Chen , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > have seen someone comment that cmix is not supported much these days. > perhaps another would care to refute? It has a rather small users group, but it is still alive and kicking. Brad Garton and folks at Columbia have created a wonderful version that works very well in realtime. Better MIDI implementation is in the works. The Mac version is dead as far as I know, but with Rhapsody that may change. Definitely worth checking out. Cheers, Dan ---------------- "Oy, Fungus!" Dan Trueman Music Department Princeton University http://www.music.princeton.edu/~dan ---------------- Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10880; 17 Mar 98 22:04 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18070; 17 Mar 98 22:03 GMT Received: (qmail 13908 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 22:04:10 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 22:04:10 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA03721); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:00:38 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 22:00:19 GMT Received: from root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA09979); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:00:12 GMT Received: from charlieb.com (baker@baker.vip.best.com [206.86.232.121]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id NAA27618 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:57:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <350E812E.21E6D6C7@charlieb.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:57:02 +0000 From: Charles Baker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound mailing list Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > Qian wrote: > > >I understand that all of us in this mailing list are Csounders. But > >Sometimes I could read something about other sound synthesis > >languages, such as Cmix, Ceicilia etc. Is there any other sound > >synthesis language? Could someone explain me the comparison of those > >languages, since I know very little about other languages except > >Csound. Furthermore, what is the best and the worst of Csound? > tolve wrote: (edited...) > Cecilia is a kick-ass interface for csound. > agreed.... > of course you need not choose only one program! > absolutely! > KYMA is expensive. Super Collider looks cool but better than cecilia/csound? costs a few hundred. also take a look at DSpyder (www.duy.es). Haven't seen it lately myself, but had been turned off by its limited control of envelopes, a common problem with most commercial software. > Kyma is "way cool", and very intuitive.I don't have supercollier..but Stephen Pope & users at UCSB C.R.E.A.T.E. swear by it......... > lately, i have been coming under some peer pressure to switch to max. this is a commercial program known for its excellent utilization of midi, which i currently do not use. is it suddenly a match for synthesis in cecilia/csound? MAX msp "MaxSignalProcessing" is an extension to MAX that allows real-time signal generation and processing: again, with no powerMac (required), I do not know this one...but I have heard great things!http://www.cycling74.com/ By David Ziccarelli also , much newer, and still in beta: "pd"...max-like, msp-like, free. ftp://crca-ftp.ucsd.edu/pub/msp By MillerSPuckett Guys, I also have to mention CLM - CommonLispMusic (synthesis)with CM CommonMusic ("algo-comp/parameter generation") controling it- these are based in ANSI CommonLisp: they're available (in varying degrees of implementation)for SGI, NeXT, Linux, DOS, MAC - the Mac is perhaps the most complete version, including very nice GUI, but requires comercial Lisp, comercial C-compiler. SGI is very complete, NeXT ok, Linux almost complete, DOS...well, uh... but absolutely free! I love CLM folk, it's amazingly complete, and embeds all these lovely synth algorithms in CommonLisp...one heckofa cool language, if, uh, a little too complete..;-) Use 'em all!!!! CharlieB ******************************************* Charlie Baker baker@charlieb.com "when everything isn't roses, you don't get any headroom" - Thomas Dolby "New Toy" ******************************************* Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10886; 17 Mar 98 22:04 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18075; 17 Mar 98 22:03 GMT Received: (qmail 4320 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 22:04:10 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 22:04:10 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA11338); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:59:46 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 21:59:26 GMT Received: from endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40] by hermes via ESMTP (VAA17000); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:59:16 GMT Received: from flash.net (fwasc6-58.flash.net [209.30.15.58]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA23157; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:59:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <350EF23A.D7EC4A6A@flash.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:59:23 -0600 From: pete moss Organization: pete moss GmbH X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: tolve Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > lately, i have been coming under some peer pressure to switch to max. this is a commercial program known for its excellent utilization of midi, which i currently do not use. is it suddenly a match for synthesis in cecilia/csound? > tolve last i saw of max, it was just a visual programming language for the mac. yes it is very good with midi, as it has some midi objects built in. but it also ran _very_ slow, even for a mac program, and it couldnt produce an executable. they would have to make some major changes to get me to look at it again. pete Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa12174; 17 Mar 98 23:32 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24699; 17 Mar 98 23:32 GMT Received: (qmail 14289 invoked from network); 17 Mar 1998 23:32:47 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 Mar 1998 23:32:47 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA18123); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:29:51 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Tue, 17 Mar 98 23:29:24 GMT Received: from mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.1] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA19598); Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:29:18 GMT Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.41]) by mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA28951; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:29:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from sndart2.cemi.unt.edu (remote115.server1.local.premium.dialup.unt.edu [129.120.52.115]) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA18855; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 16:40:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.2 [p0] on IRIX X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <350EF23A.D7EC4A6A@flash.net> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 18:22:06 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Thompson To: pete moss Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk, tolve Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Max on the Mac can now compile, PPC native, tons of objects for midi, and it now has msp (real-time digital signal processing) on PPC Macintosh. Go to the Ircam site and search for Max for more info.... Michael On 17-Mar-98 pete moss wrote: >> lately, i have been coming under some peer pressure to switch to max. this >> is a commercial program known for its excellent utilization of midi, which i >> currently do not use. is it suddenly a match for synthesis in >> cecilia/csound? >> tolve > > > > last i saw of max, it was just a visual programming language for the mac. > yes it is very good with midi, as it has some midi objects built in. but it > also ran _very_ slow, even for a mac program, and it couldnt produce an > executable. they would have to make some major changes to get me to look at > it again. > > pete > > > ---------------------------------- E-Mail: Michael Thompson Date: 17-Mar-98 Time: 18:19:20 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa12877; 18 Mar 98 0:27 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa28839; 18 Mar 98 0:27 GMT Received: (qmail 12789 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 00:27:35 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 00:27:35 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA10442); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:24:54 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 00:24:36 GMT Received: from mail.infohouse.com [206.30.88.4] by hermes via ESMTP (AAA25859); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:24:30 GMT Received: from [208.151.41.196] by milhouse.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 141-39833U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA150 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:23:20 -0500 X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork From: tolve Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:23:20 -0500 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk michael thompson wrote: >Max on the Mac can now compile, PPC native, tons of objects for midi, and it >now has msp (real-time digital signal processing) on PPC Macintosh. Go to the >Ircam site and search for Max for more info.... thanks for the tip michael! thought max was an opcode affair, or are they just the us distributors? does IRCAM maintain an english version of their site? url anyone? tolve Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14128; 18 Mar 98 1:51 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa05530; 18 Mar 98 1:50 GMT Received: (qmail 14870 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 01:50:49 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 01:50:49 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA17188); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:47:51 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 01:47:34 GMT Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.88] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA15594); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:47:28 GMT Received: from IDENT-NOT-QUERIED@Princeton.EDU (port 2500 [128.112.128.81]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <541564-222>; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:47:32 -0500 Received: from silvertone.Princeton.EDU by Princeton.EDU (5.65b/2.139/princeton) id AA10386; Tue, 17 Mar 98 20:47:21 -0500 Received: (from dan@localhost) by silvertone.Princeton.EDU (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA12990; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:47:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:47:15 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Trueman To: tolve Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > > thought max was an opcode affair, or are they just the us distributors? > does IRCAM maintain an english version of their site? url anyone? > You can get all the MSP stuff at Zicarelli's site: www.cycling74.com Dan Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14303; 18 Mar 98 2:03 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa06685; 18 Mar 98 2:02 GMT Received: (qmail 14939 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 02:03:20 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 02:03:20 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA15330); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:00:35 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 02:00:12 GMT Received: from root@westnet.com [206.24.6.2] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA24014); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:00:00 GMT Received: from goodguy (port6.ts2.westnet.com [206.28.203.6]) by westnet.com (8.8.6/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA26701; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:00:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <350F3648.666327B1@westnet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:49:44 +0000 From: Larry Troxler X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Dan Trueman Cc: tolve , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Dan Trueman wrote: > > > > > thought max was an opcode affair, or are they just the us distributors? > > does IRCAM maintain an english version of their site? url anyone? > > > > You can get all the MSP stuff at Zicarelli's site: www.cycling74.com > > Dan My understanding is that the Opcode MAX is different from (and probably generally prettier) than Ircam (IFS) Max. So no, Opcode is not simply a distributer - their Max is different. Of course, if PD gets fleshed out a bit more, than Max is history :-) Ircam does have English versions of a large number of their pages. Maybe if you elaborate on what urls you are currently using ... If you start from www.ircam.fr, you are given a choice of languages. IMHO, languages are the least of my worries when venturing into the Ircam site. this site has to be one of the least intuitive computer music sites I have ever laid eyes on!! It is very difficult to find what you are looking for, even when you know it is there somewhere. -- Larry Troxler -- lt@westnet.com -- Patterson, NY USA -- Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa14523; 18 Mar 98 2:15 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa07477; 18 Mar 98 2:14 GMT Received: (qmail 14987 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 02:14:58 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 02:14:58 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (CAA00331); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:12:24 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 02:12:05 GMT Received: from root@xochi.tezcat.com [204.128.247.12] by hermes via ESMTP (CAA01986); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 02:11:59 GMT Received: from [204.248.80.120] (antiorp.tezcat.com [204.248.80.120]) by xochi.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id UAA07861 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:11:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803180211.UAA07861@xochi.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:17:42 -0600 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >My understanding is that the Opcode MAX is different from (and probably >generally prettier) than Ircam (IFS) Max. !rcam sellz msp >Of course, if PD gets fleshed out a bit more, than Max is history :-) eRr.\|\| >Ircam does have English versions of a large number of their pages. 1 un.4.tun.ate event. >Maybe >if you elaborate on what urls you are currently using ... > >If you start from www.ircam.fr, you are given a choice of languages. 1 un.4.tun.ate event. >IMHO, languages are the least of my worries when venturing into the >Ircam site. this site has to be one of the least intuitive computer >music sites I have ever laid eyes on!! > It is very difficult to find what >you are looking for, even when you know it is there somewhere. gesture-music * Gestural research related to computer music test-list * Liste de courrier test * (null) * (null) Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa15992; 18 Mar 98 4:00 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa19421; 18 Mar 98 3:59 GMT Received: (qmail 15345 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 04:00:18 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 04:00:18 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (DAA11652); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:57:26 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 03:57:02 GMT Received: from mail.infohouse.com [206.30.88.4] by hermes via ESMTP (DAA05205); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:56:53 GMT Received: from [208.151.41.209] by milhouse.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 141-39833U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA180; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:55:48 -0500 X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <350F3648.666327B1@westnet.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Larry Troxler From: tolve Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:55:48 -0500 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Larry Troxler wrote: >...Of course, if PD gets fleshed out a bit more, than Max is history :-)... intriguing. why? tolve Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16231; 18 Mar 98 4:21 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21173; 18 Mar 98 4:21 GMT Received: (qmail 15415 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 04:21:42 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 04:21:42 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA23728); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:18:26 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 04:18:09 GMT Received: from mail.infohouse.com [206.30.88.4] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA02746); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:18:03 GMT Received: from [208.151.41.209] by milhouse.infohouse.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 141-39833U2500L250S0) with ESMTP id AAA220 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:16:53 -0500 X-Sender: ic11748@mail.infohouse.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199803180211.UAA07861@xochi.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork From: tolve Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:16:53 -0500 Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk for those interested, just got back... according to readme on Pd, "MSP, which runs on top of Opcode Max can be obtained from either Zicarelli (http://www.cycling74.com) or from Ircam http://www.ircam.fr/produits-real/msp-e.html " imagine it would also run on top of Ircam's max? but i have too much on my hands already. readme also mentions that MSP is more user friendly than Pd. so must be some reason of power for creation of Pd. tolve Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16370; 18 Mar 98 4:32 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21933; 18 Mar 98 4:31 GMT Received: (qmail 15459 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 04:32:13 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 04:32:13 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA11946); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:29:44 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 04:29:20 GMT Received: from root@xochi.tezcat.com [204.128.247.12] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA01069); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:29:13 GMT Received: from [204.248.80.120] (antiorp.tezcat.com [204.248.80.120]) by xochi.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id WAA11227 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:29:16 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803180429.WAA11227@xochi.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:34:58 -0600 To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.stork From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >readme also mentions that MSP is more user friendly than Pd. so must be >some reason of power for creation of Pd. max eq mak!ntosh pd ne macos Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa16731; 18 Mar 98 5:05 GMT Received: from pat.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa24321; 18 Mar 98 5:04 GMT Received: (qmail 23001 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 05:04:51 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by pat.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 05:04:51 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (FAA15322); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:01:56 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 05:01:30 GMT Received: from m1.gtn.net [207.176.194.10] by hermes via ESMTP (FAA20578); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:01:22 GMT Received: from uoguelph.ca ([207.176.194.54]) by m1.gtn.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13297) with ESMTP id AAA268 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:01:54 -0500 Message-Id: <350F56E7.8F75FD7E@uoguelph.ca> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:08:55 -0500 From: Brandon Nelson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound Subject: Mac Csound 3.47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk I can't get many older orcs to work with the most recent perf3.47 on the Mac. How do I revert to using an older version of perf? There have been comments that people didn't understand the need for the physically modelled opcodes, but they are exactly what have been waiting for, so many thanks to those responsible for including them. Brandon Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18228; 18 Mar 98 7:10 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa03533; 18 Mar 98 7:09 GMT Received: (qmail 16003 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 07:10:21 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 07:10:21 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (HAA10378); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:07:23 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 07:07:05 GMT Received: from root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15] by hermes via ESMTP (HAA04878); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:06:58 GMT Received: from charlieb.com (baker@baker.vip.best.com [206.86.232.121]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id XAA01219 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:06:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <350F01D8.1E69C725@charlieb.com> Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 23:06:01 +0000 From: Charles Baker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound mailing list Subject: Re: sound synthesis languages? References: <199803180429.WAA11227@xochi.tezcat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk In addition to being available for SGI, WinNT/95 (Win32), and Linux, pd is free. $0, that is. MSP is free, but requires MAX (lists for $499 or something like that....). Oh, and a powerPC Macintosh. (no Motorola68K...not fast enough...) The reason Max is friendlier than pd is VERSION/AGE: pd is brand new, version 0.22. (still "beta", pre-version 1.0) Max is up in 3.5+ version range, and msp seems to be an evolution of onjects originally for the IRCAM ISPW (Ircam Signal Processing Workstation: a NeXT based co-processor board from Ariel.) MAX system...Max has had a devoted developer base for over 5 years, so there are a large number of user objects floating around, some very good (James McCartney and Peter Elsea are particular heros in this...) IRCAM also has a "micro" based UNIX MAX (DEC, i think? surely someone knows)I dunno the price, and finding that info from the IRCAM site is...uh..not easy? Char lieB -- ******************************************* Charlie Baker baker@charlieb.com "when everything isn't roses, you don't get any headroom" - Thomas Dolby "New Toy" ***************************************** Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa18451; 18 Mar 98 7:27 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa04960; 18 Mar 98 7:26 GMT Received: (qmail 16063 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 07:26:57 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 07:26:57 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (HAA16906); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:23:37 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 07:23:20 GMT Received: from root@xochi.tezcat.com [204.128.247.12] by hermes via ESMTP (HAA26271); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:23:13 GMT Received: from [204.248.80.120] (antiorp.tezcat.com [204.248.80.120]) by xochi.tezcat.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/tezcat-96091001) with SMTP id BAA14855 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:23:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199803180723.BAA14855@xochi.tezcat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:29:04 -0600 To: csound mailing list From: =cw4t7abs Subject: Re: msp Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >In addition to being available for SGI, WinNT/95 (Win32), and Linux, >pd is free. $0, that is. >MSP is free, msp !grat!z >but requires MAX (lists for $499 or something like that....). = $25o >Oh, and a powerPC Macintosh. (no Motorola68K...not fast enough...) ppc = $500 + >The reason Max is friendlier than pd is VERSION/AGE: + macos = fr.!end.l!e.r >Char lieB > >-- >***************************************** >Charlie Baker baker@charlieb.com > "when everything isn't roses, you don't get > any headroom" - Thomas Dolby "New Toy" >***************************************** 1 getz head.spasz. 1 s x n 6 enter.pr!sz. Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa19196; 18 Mar 98 8:35 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09912; 18 Mar 98 8:34 GMT Received: (qmail 16329 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 08:35:05 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 08:35:05 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (IAA02591); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:31:42 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 08:31:23 GMT Received: from ella.mills.edu [144.91.3.20] by hermes via SMTP (IAA25431); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 08:31:16 GMT Received: (qmail 8206 invoked by uid 1964); 18 Mar 1998 00:30:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 00:30:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Matt J. Ingalls" To: Brandon Nelson Cc: csound Subject: Re: Mac Csound 3.47 In-Reply-To: <350F56E7.8F75FD7E@uoguelph.ca> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk > I can't get many older orcs to work with the most recent perf3.47 on the Mac. > How do I revert to using an older version of perf? better yet - post the orc/sco to the list for others to verify bugs and then squash them.... -maTT Received: from stork.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa21987; 18 Mar 98 12:12 GMT Received: from mercury.bath.ac.uk by stork.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa29437; 18 Mar 98 12:11 GMT Received: (qmail 17409 invoked from network); 18 Mar 1998 12:12:11 -0000 Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk (HELO exeter.ac.uk) (144.173.6.14) by mercury.bath.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 Mar 1998 12:12:11 -0000 Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA23433); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:51:20 GMT Received: from hermes.ex.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Wed, 18 Mar 98 11:50:50 GMT Received: from root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14] by hermes via ESMTP (LAA27097); Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:50:40 GMT Received: from charlieb.com (baker@baker.vip.best.com [206.86.232.121]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id DAA10693 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:50:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <350F444D.844EE1DA@charlieb.com> Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 03:49:34 +0000 From: Charles Baker X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i586) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: csound mailing list Subject: RE: msp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk Precedence: bulk >msp !grat!z Ah, c'est vrai..quel dommage. Free damaged evaluation copies only. msp Cost: $295 american >but requires MAX (lists for $499 or something like that....). >>= $25o ??? - I want your music dealer..or maybe just your exchange rate! following copied verbatim from the Max web site : MAX 3.5 Interactive Graphic Programming Environment -- $495.00 >>The reason Max is friendlier than pd is VERSION/AGE: >+ macos = fr.!end.l!e.r Maybe. You work with MacOSVersion8.0? Very unstable, sigh. I am a lost little unix sheep: give me NeXTStep, SGI, Linux,. Without GNU tools, I am unhappy. I started, tho, on Mac, and have fond memories...and some Max software/music. I hate Windows openly, and with a passion. But the sad reality is that the great grey monolith that is MikroSquish looms over the entire world, and I would rather have the sad lost little Ween-doze users have a free signal processing development language with a intuitive interface than not. Like csound. Or pd. Or CLM (ummmm...my fav!...) >> "when everything isn't roses, you don't get > > any headroom" - Thomas Dolby "New Toy" >>***************************************** >1 getz head.spasz. 1 s x n 6 enter.pr!sz. hmmm... I thought Dolby's project was "Beatnik", which competes with "Headspace", which is ignoring MIT's "NetSound", all of whom fear "JavaSound"? too damn many of these net sound formats...reminds me of the mess with audio formats. Perhaps some day industry will see a need for a standard, as they did with digital synth communication. Like, why did MS need "wav" files, an IFF style sound format, which varies basically only in header structure from aiff (which was already in use in several os's?)? Oh...so they could dominate the world, right? Nuff MS bashing. Pax, CharlieB-- ***************************************** Charlie Baker baker@charlieb.com "when everything isn't roses, you don't get any headroom" - Thomas Dolby "New Toy" *******************************************