| Message written at 16 Jun 1999 22:54:42 +0100
OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
What does it do for me?
==John ffitch
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08777;
17 Jun 99 13:50 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ubcG-0002We-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:50:00 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (NAA03026); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:43 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:24 +0100
Received: from root@smtp-out-007.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.126] by hermes via ESMTP (NAA11857); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:23 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bmpl1-2-220.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.250.226.220] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:27 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <37690960.992CE28B@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:43 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
Reply-To: mj@exbang.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: zuijlen@ibm.net
CC: music-dsp , CSOUND
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <004701beb7f3$941829a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> <3767C406.2254ACDB@exbang.com> <37683468.A7A3088A@ibm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Job M. van Zuijlen wrote:
>
> If we're talking plug-ins, I would like the approach to be a little bit
> more general than Steinberg's VST. I do not and do not want to use
> Steinberg products, so VST support would be of no interest to me.
as I wrote (see below), the architecture is open to other hosts than
Steinberg's, which makes it of interest to virtually anybody. Emagic's Logic,
and many other existing or future sequencers or audio softwares host VST plugins.
In fact I believe it makes sense nowadays to release any soft synth or effect
in the form of two components :
- a (small) audio engine app for standalone use (can be the same for any synth
or effect)
- a (big) vst 2 plugin which may be used either by "its" engine app or, in a
much more efficient way than if it was a "full" app with its own audio
callbacks, by a sequencer.
> > ). Furthermore it is open not only to plugin
> > developers but also to host developers, which should help it become a standard.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08783;
17 Jun 99 13:50 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ubcv-00086S-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:50:41 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (NAA01244); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:37 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:19 +0100
Received: from root@smtp-out-007.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.126] by hermes via ESMTP (NAA13768); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:42:18 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bmpl1-2-220.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.250.226.220] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:21 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <37690648.844E1ED2@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:29:30 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
Reply-To: mj@exbang.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Michael Gogins
CC: music-dsp list ,
csound list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <002801beb84c$a33c0ec0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> Another misconception: these days, Java IS fast. I do all my new DSP coding
> in Java. Java with best compilers is now about 1/2 the speed of C++. This is
> fast enough.
Don't you think a factor of 2 is a lot ? Pity to waste half of your cpu power
for the beauty of no recompile. Non-platform specific C or C++ code might be
just as well.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08815;
17 Jun 99 13:58 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ubjx-000871-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:57:58 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA19792
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:42:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from wanadoo.fr (root@smtp-out-007.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.126])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19788
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bmpl1-2-220.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.250.226.220] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:21 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <37690648.844E1ED2@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:29:30 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Michael Gogins
CC: music-dsp list ,
csound list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <002801beb84c$a33c0ec0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Michael Gogins wrote:
>
> Another misconception: these days, Java IS fast. I do all my new DSP coding
> in Java. Java with best compilers is now about 1/2 the speed of C++. This is
> fast enough.
Don't you think a factor of 2 is a lot ? Pity to waste half of your cpu power
for the beauty of no recompile. Non-platform specific C or C++ code might be
just as well.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa08839;
17 Jun 99 14:00 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ubm2-000878-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:00:07 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA19805
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:42:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from wanadoo.fr (root@smtp-out-007.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.126])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19794
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bmpl1-2-220.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.250.226.220] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:27 +0200 (MET DST)
Message-ID: <37690960.992CE28B@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:42:43 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: zuijlen@ibm.net
CC: music-dsp , CSOUND
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <004701beb7f3$941829a0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com> <3767C406.2254ACDB@exbang.com> <37683468.A7A3088A@ibm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Job M. van Zuijlen wrote:
>
> If we're talking plug-ins, I would like the approach to be a little bit
> more general than Steinberg's VST. I do not and do not want to use
> Steinberg products, so VST support would be of no interest to me.
as I wrote (see below), the architecture is open to other hosts than
Steinberg's, which makes it of interest to virtually anybody. Emagic's Logic,
and many other existing or future sequencers or audio softwares host VST plugins.
In fact I believe it makes sense nowadays to release any soft synth or effect
in the form of two components :
- a (small) audio engine app for standalone use (can be the same for any synth
or effect)
- a (big) vst 2 plugin which may be used either by "its" engine app or, in a
much more efficient way than if it was a "full" app with its own audio
callbacks, by a sequencer.
> > ). Furthermore it is open not only to plugin
> > developers but also to host developers, which should help it become a standard.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09029;
17 Jun 99 15:37 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10udHu-0002dD-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:37:06 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA04581); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:29:35 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:29:21 +0100
Received: from sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55] by hermes via ESMTP (PAA05251); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:29:20 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [24.93.53.161] ([24.93.53.161]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:26:34 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <37690648.844E1ED2@exbang.com>
References: <002801beb84c$a33c0ec0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:32:24 -0600
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, Michael Gogins
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Cc: music-dsp list ,
csound list
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Another misconception: these days, Java IS fast. I do all my new DSP coding
>> in Java. Java with best compilers is now about 1/2 the speed of C++. This is
>> fast enough.
Well I did not receive the above posting, so I may be quoting out of context.
First, half as fast is too slow when I've spent lots of time
just to get 20% speed ups in C.
Second, whether something is fast has nothing to do with whether
something is real time. A real time system has guarantees on latency.
Java's GC scheme does not. It must suspend all threads to do its collection
and the way its finalization scheme is designed it is difficult to
make it a guaranteed real time system. You can't guarantee that on
any particular system you'll be able to get a real time GC for your
Java implentation.
I know of no Java that is capable of running in real time with performance
guarantees and able to run in an interrupt routine where memory allocation
is illegal.
SuperCollider was designed to be able to do this.
Third, the SC virtual machine is C which is far more portable than Java.
If I wanted to port to a DSP chip I could not get a Java compiler for it.
That is why SC is in C and not C++.
This is from a different posting:
>Is there any way that the SuperCollider language would lend itself to
>implementation of those so-popular unit generator wiring forms? Now that I
>have played with Generator a little, I rather like them.
Yes, however wire up diagrams are not easily able to express the
dynamic things you can do in a supercollider program.
It would be a subset of what you could do with the language.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09048;
17 Jun 99 15:43 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10udOM-0002dq-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:43:47 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21681
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:29:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21677
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:29:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [24.93.53.161] ([24.93.53.161]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:26:34 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <37690648.844E1ED2@exbang.com>
References: <002801beb84c$a33c0ec0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:32:24 -0600
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, Michael Gogins
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Cc: music-dsp list ,
csound list
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Another misconception: these days, Java IS fast. I do all my new DSP coding
>> in Java. Java with best compilers is now about 1/2 the speed of C++. This is
>> fast enough.
Well I did not receive the above posting, so I may be quoting out of context.
First, half as fast is too slow when I've spent lots of time
just to get 20% speed ups in C.
Second, whether something is fast has nothing to do with whether
something is real time. A real time system has guarantees on latency.
Java's GC scheme does not. It must suspend all threads to do its collection
and the way its finalization scheme is designed it is difficult to
make it a guaranteed real time system. You can't guarantee that on
any particular system you'll be able to get a real time GC for your
Java implentation.
I know of no Java that is capable of running in real time with performance
guarantees and able to run in an interrupt routine where memory allocation
is illegal.
SuperCollider was designed to be able to do this.
Third, the SC virtual machine is C which is far more portable than Java.
If I wanted to port to a DSP chip I could not get a Java compiler for it.
That is why SC is in C and not C++.
This is from a different posting:
>Is there any way that the SuperCollider language would lend itself to
>implementation of those so-popular unit generator wiring forms? Now that I
>have played with Generator a little, I rather like them.
Yes, however wire up diagrams are not easily able to express the
dynamic things you can do in a supercollider program.
It would be a subset of what you could do with the language.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09072;
17 Jun 99 15:54 BST
Received: from [193.252.19.69] (helo=wanadoo.fr ident=root)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10udYN-0008Aw-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:54:07 +0100
Received: from andira.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.152] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:54:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Received: from exbang.com (193.250.226.97) by andira.wanadoo.fr; 17 Jun 1999 16:54:13 +0200
Message-ID: <37692854.AC8AE909@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:54:49 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
Reply-To: mj@exbang.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
CC: csound list ,
music-dsp list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
> What does it do for me?
Basically, Steinberg's VST (Virtual Studio Technology) is a well-documented
(sample code provided for plugins _and_ for hosts), multiplatform (VST1 sdks
are available for Mac, Windows and SGI), dsp plugin architecture for
sequencers and other audio apps.
It used to be open at the plugin end only, but it's now open at the other end
too. So that not only Cubase, but also Logic, StudioVision, and others,
including a new kind of audio application we are currently developing at
Exbang (top secret, won't tell you more ;-), host VST plugins. Its openness
at the host end makes this architecture much more attractive for developers
who don't necessarily want to limit the scope of their creations to Steinberg products.
In its current version (1.0) it only allows for audio effects and non-MIDI
parameter passing. Upcoming version 2.0 (any day now) allows for both audio
effects and synths, and passes MIDI events (sample accurate, I believe)
through the plugin interface. VST2 also provides a cross-platform GUI API for
faders etc so that you can concentrate on real work (dsp) instead of dealing
with platform-specific GUI issues.
I have no personal interest whatsoever in promoting Steinberg, but VST
apparently can be used freely, and I think it is the best way to go for people
who want their dsp code, whether free or commercial, to be widely and
efficiently used for making "real" music (I mean with professional-grade sequencers).
For more information cf my other mails in this thread and see :
http://www.steinberg.net/developers/VSTPlugInsDocumentation/index.html
(still version 1.0)
Oh, and congratulations for the great job you're doing with csound.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09098;
17 Jun 99 16:01 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10udfA-0002em-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:01:08 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (PAA15555); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:54:12 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:54:01 +0100
Received: from root@smtp-out-002.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.69] by hermes via ESMTP (PAA04540); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:54:00 +0100 (BST)
Received: from andira.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.152] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:54:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Received: from exbang.com (193.250.226.97) by andira.wanadoo.fr; 17 Jun 1999 16:54:13 +0200
Message-ID: <37692854.AC8AE909@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:54:49 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
Reply-To: mj@exbang.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
CC: csound list ,
music-dsp list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
> What does it do for me?
Basically, Steinberg's VST (Virtual Studio Technology) is a well-documented
(sample code provided for plugins _and_ for hosts), multiplatform (VST1 sdks
are available for Mac, Windows and SGI), dsp plugin architecture for
sequencers and other audio apps.
It used to be open at the plugin end only, but it's now open at the other end
too. So that not only Cubase, but also Logic, StudioVision, and others,
including a new kind of audio application we are currently developing at
Exbang (top secret, won't tell you more ;-), host VST plugins. Its openness
at the host end makes this architecture much more attractive for developers
who don't necessarily want to limit the scope of their creations to Steinberg products.
In its current version (1.0) it only allows for audio effects and non-MIDI
parameter passing. Upcoming version 2.0 (any day now) allows for both audio
effects and synths, and passes MIDI events (sample accurate, I believe)
through the plugin interface. VST2 also provides a cross-platform GUI API for
faders etc so that you can concentrate on real work (dsp) instead of dealing
with platform-specific GUI issues.
I have no personal interest whatsoever in promoting Steinberg, but VST
apparently can be used freely, and I think it is the best way to go for people
who want their dsp code, whether free or commercial, to be widely and
efficiently used for making "real" music (I mean with professional-grade sequencers).
For more information cf my other mails in this thread and see :
http://www.steinberg.net/developers/VSTPlugInsDocumentation/index.html
(still version 1.0)
Oh, and congratulations for the great job you're doing with csound.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09133;
17 Jun 99 16:14 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10udre-0002fS-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:14:03 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21935
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from wanadoo.fr (root@smtp-out-002.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.69])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21931
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:54:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from andira.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.152] by wanadoo.fr
for
Paris Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:54:03 +0200 (MET DST)
Received: from exbang.com (193.250.226.97) by andira.wanadoo.fr; 17 Jun 1999 16:54:13 +0200
Message-ID: <37692854.AC8AE909@exbang.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:54:49 +0000
From: Michel Jullian
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
CC: csound list ,
music-dsp list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk wrote:
> OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
> What does it do for me?
Basically, Steinberg's VST (Virtual Studio Technology) is a well-documented
(sample code provided for plugins _and_ for hosts), multiplatform (VST1 sdks
are available for Mac, Windows and SGI), dsp plugin architecture for
sequencers and other audio apps.
It used to be open at the plugin end only, but it's now open at the other end
too. So that not only Cubase, but also Logic, StudioVision, and others,
including a new kind of audio application we are currently developing at
Exbang (top secret, won't tell you more ;-), host VST plugins. Its openness
at the host end makes this architecture much more attractive for developers
who don't necessarily want to limit the scope of their creations to Steinberg products.
In its current version (1.0) it only allows for audio effects and non-MIDI
parameter passing. Upcoming version 2.0 (any day now) allows for both audio
effects and synths, and passes MIDI events (sample accurate, I believe)
through the plugin interface. VST2 also provides a cross-platform GUI API for
faders etc so that you can concentrate on real work (dsp) instead of dealing
with platform-specific GUI issues.
I have no personal interest whatsoever in promoting Steinberg, but VST
apparently can be used freely, and I think it is the best way to go for people
who want their dsp code, whether free or commercial, to be widely and
efficiently used for making "real" music (I mean with professional-grade sequencers).
For more information cf my other mails in this thread and see :
http://www.steinberg.net/developers/VSTPlugInsDocumentation/index.html
(still version 1.0)
Oh, and congratulations for the great job you're doing with csound.
--
Greetings,
Michel
.........................................................................
Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
Exbang Industries S.A.
Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
.........................................................................
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09538;
17 Jun 99 18:21 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ufrA-0002lJ-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:21:40 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA11393); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:15:22 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:15:10 +0100
Received: from spartacus.a2000.nl [62.108.1.20] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA10413); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:15:09 +0100 (BST)
Received: from node12431.a2000.nl ([24.132.36.49] helo=cornelius)
by smtp2.a2000.nl with smtp (Exim 2.02 #4)
id 10ufkj-0003tv-00
for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:15:01 +0200
From: Dave Perry
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:05 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: ANNOUNCE : Visual Orchestra 2.0 beta [long]
Reply-to: D.W.Perry@fibre.a2000.nl
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11)
Message-Id:
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Dear Csounders,
A major new version of Visual Orchestra (2.0a) has just been
released for testing and evaluation by VisOrc Mailing list members.
This will hopefully help find any problems before a more general
release. If you don't know, Visual Orchestra (VisOrc) is a
graphical user interface (GUI) for CSound musical running on a PC
(Windows95/98 or NT4).
If you're interested and not already on the list you can send mail to
with 'Subscibe VisOrc' in the
MESSAGE BODY and can also take part.
Once the beta testing is finished Visual Orchestra will be
released under a 30 working day trial gizmo (whereafter the software
can be 'unlocked' by a simple secure online purchase or by mailing
a cheque). Those of you who have already sent a donation and
those who help significantly in the beta testing/bug reporting and
discussion will receive the unlocked version at a special price.
I've yet to decide on the final price (this is also open for debate..)
but am thinking of $100 for a single licence with significant
discounts for site licences.
Everyone likes free software and the decision to charge this for the
new version was not taken lightly, I hope that you will consider
the new features and improvements in 2.0 justify a purchase.
So what's changed and what's been improved? On the surface,
the interface remains much the same and current users should have
little problem adjusting. ORC editor interface improvements include
the ability to select and manipulate multiple units and outputs (you
can now select, connect, delete, line-up, move, copy, etc. any
number of units). The unit editor has also been revamped, with all
of the functions incorporated into an 'explorer' like tree. Most
importantly I think, due to the internal changes, speed and
reliability have been boosted considerably and crashes are a lot
less frequent (even in alpha).
Gone is the MDB savefile and unit database format which has
been used since version 1.6 and which was responsible for almost
all of the bugs and some really messy code. Project files are now
saved in a scripted text format which is faster, smaller and easier
to maintain, it also encourages the development of third party tools
to translate standard ORC/SCO's into VisOrc projects.
The Sco editor is now much more closely linked in functionality
and appearance to the Orchestra (you switch a tab of the ORC
editor to access the SCO eventlist, another to maintain GEN
routines and another to compile), however in all other respects the
SCO contains the same powerful database functionality as 1.957.
Compile sets, which were also introduced in 1.957 have been
replaced by saveable text format files (consider them similar to a C
makefile) in which you can maintain different settings for different
CSound versions, sample rate settings, day of the week, etc....
There aren't so many options and 'quirky' parts of the program.
A proper, customizable toolbar is a considerable improvement on
both the appearance and functionality of the main interface while the
Unit-Editor is also moveable (not just hideable). You'll see less
bizarre dialogs and the overall window appearance has been
standardised. MIDI Input and Output has been removed to
streamline the program (although the MIDI units are still available).
Sliders and Implants will also not be implemented in the initial
release, they were of limited use and I'd rather work on an
'Generator' style 'panel interface' for RT control.
You can store and retreive individual instrument 'Snapshots', a
*very* useful feature and one that (as far as I'm aware) has never
been a viable, hassle free option in CSound before. This also
owes a lot to Generator (http://native-instruments.com) among
others, Csounder's can now name & save their synthesizer
presets for instant retrieval too.
Much more to tell but its no doubt best to let you see and test it for
yourself, I hope that this has whet your appetite a little :)
Comment's and Questions about this mail would be greatly
appreciated, Bugs and problems also (but less ;)
Best Wishes and Happy Csounding,
David Perry
What is VisOrc? go to http://cornelius.dhs.org/dave/ for more info.
Dave Perry
2e Fase MT (MPhil Music)
Perry@student-kmt.hku.nl
D.W.Perry@fibre.a2000.nl
http://cornelius.dhs.org/dave/
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09560;
17 Jun 99 18:36 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ug5K-0002lh-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:36:18 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA09293); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:32:09 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:31:58 +0100
Received: from smtp0.mindspring.com [207.69.200.30] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA01729); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:31:57 +0100 (BST)
Received: from suzie-the-tiger (mid-qbu-nqo-vty24.as.wcom.net [216.192.107.24])
by smtp0.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA15763
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:32:03 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990617132956.007a65c0@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
X-Sender: mpoirier@virtu.sar.usf.edu
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:29:56 -0400
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: Marc 3 Poirier
Subject: csound.exe & csound95.exe
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Hello. I run Csound on a PC with Windows 98. I've always used
csound95.exe to compile my Csound stuff, but the newest version I can find
at the FTP site is still v3.44, which is 2 & a half years old. The
csound.exe file is up to v3.54, which is only 1 month old. Much better is
csound.exe, I would say, except that I can't get csound.exe to run on my
computer. I always get the error message: "Failed to find DB file"
So, my questions are: Does anyone know why I'm getting this error
message? Does anyone know what the difference between csound.exe &
csound95.exe is? Does anyone know if there is an updated version of
csound95.exe?
Thank you,
Marc Poirier
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09650;
17 Jun 99 18:56 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ugOc-0002mD-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:56:14 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (SAA16003); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:50:50 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:50:38 +0100
Received: from pop01.globecomm.net [206.253.129.185] by hermes via ESMTP (SAA09580); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:50:37 +0100 (BST)
Received: from alcuin (dial944.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.36.80]) by pop01.globecomm.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id NAA09711; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:50:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199906171750.NAA09711@pop01.globecomm.net>
From: David Ogborn
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:54:16 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Subject: Re: csound.exe & csound95.exe
Reply-to: ogborndp@iname.com
CC: Marc 3 Poirier
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990617132956.007a65c0@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d)
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
> csound.exe file is up to v3.54, which is only 1 month old. Much better is
> csound.exe, I would say, except that I can't get csound.exe to run on my
> computer. I always get the error message: "Failed to find DB file"
There is a file containing messages in the language of your choice,
probably called English.txt. This must be in your current directory
for the executable to run. It is not enough for that file to be
somewhere in your path variable. I seem to vaguely remember the
last time I compiled a Csound executable for myself changing the
source so that it expected this file in a constant location...
David Ogborn
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09702;
17 Jun 99 19:17 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ugja-0008Gu-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:54 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (TAA16584); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:13:20 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:13:07 +0100
Received: from ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41] by hermes via ESMTP (TAA08905); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:13:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bigfoot.com (p225-78.atnt4.dialup.ftw1.flash.net [209.30.225.78])
by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16661
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:13:08 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <37693B40.E2077275@bigfoot.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:15:28 -0500
From: pete moss
Organization: pete moss GmbH
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
CC: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: csound.exe & csound95.exe
References: <199906171750.NAA09711@pop01.globecomm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
i have had similar problems. it might be nice to add a new command line
parameter that states the location of the language db.
:P
David Ogborn wrote:
>
> > csound.exe file is up to v3.54, which is only 1 month old. Much better is
> > csound.exe, I would say, except that I can't get csound.exe to run on my
> > computer. I always get the error message: "Failed to find DB file"
>
> There is a file containing messages in the language of your choice,
> probably called English.txt. This must be in your current directory
> for the executable to run. It is not enough for that file to be
> somewhere in your path variable. I seem to vaguely remember the
> last time I compiled a Csound executable for myself changing the
> source so that it expected this file in a constant location...
>
> David Ogborn
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09816;
17 Jun 99 20:11 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uhZX-0002nt-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:11:35 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA00903); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:05:46 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:05:34 +0100
Received: from root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA04939); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:05:33 +0100 (BST)
Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm3-04.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.68]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id PAA14821; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:04:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199906171904.PAA14821@renoir.op.net>
To: music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:32:24 MDT."
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:12:59 -0400
From: Paul Barton-Davis
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
>I know of no Java that is capable of running in real time with performance
>guarantees and able to run in an interrupt routine where memory allocation
>is illegal. SuperCollider was designed to be able to do this.
i am not sure how much of SC runs (or can run) in an interrupt
routine, but if its a lot then i am suprised that you seem proud of
this. although this is undoubtedly an approach that helps raw speed,
it seems incredibly unportable, and also very hard to ever plan on
using in a multiprocessor system. If you wanted to do this kind thing
on Linux, BeOS or various other systems, you'd be totally hosed. You
would totally destroy system timing, amongst other things. You could
never do inter-processor synchronization within an interrupt routine.
i am at a loss to understand why you chose to do things in an
interrupt routine. i guess i am just too much of a unix head to grok
the Mac (and maybe Windows) world.
>Third, the SC virtual machine is C which is far more portable than Java.
Michael's idea, I think, is to not write the VM in Java, but to use a
C implementation to support Java's "native methods" (i.e. things that
appear to be builtins in Java). I'm not attracted to this idea all
that much, but it seems like quite a reasonable one to me.
>If I wanted to port to a DSP chip I could not get a Java compiler for it.
>That is why SC is in C and not C++.
I think you will find that GCC exists for most of the worthwhile DSP
chips out there, and with it, G++. Thats certainly true for the SHARC 26XXX
and Motorola 56K series.
--p
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09852;
17 Jun 99 20:28 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uhqH-0002oF-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:28:53 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26977
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:05:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from renoir.op.net (root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26956
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:04:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm3-04.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.68]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id PAA14821; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:04:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199906171904.PAA14821@renoir.op.net>
To: music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:32:24 MDT."
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:12:59 -0400
From: Paul Barton-Davis
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
>I know of no Java that is capable of running in real time with performance
>guarantees and able to run in an interrupt routine where memory allocation
>is illegal. SuperCollider was designed to be able to do this.
i am not sure how much of SC runs (or can run) in an interrupt
routine, but if its a lot then i am suprised that you seem proud of
this. although this is undoubtedly an approach that helps raw speed,
it seems incredibly unportable, and also very hard to ever plan on
using in a multiprocessor system. If you wanted to do this kind thing
on Linux, BeOS or various other systems, you'd be totally hosed. You
would totally destroy system timing, amongst other things. You could
never do inter-processor synchronization within an interrupt routine.
i am at a loss to understand why you chose to do things in an
interrupt routine. i guess i am just too much of a unix head to grok
the Mac (and maybe Windows) world.
>Third, the SC virtual machine is C which is far more portable than Java.
Michael's idea, I think, is to not write the VM in Java, but to use a
C implementation to support Java's "native methods" (i.e. things that
appear to be builtins in Java). I'm not attracted to this idea all
that much, but it seems like quite a reasonable one to me.
>If I wanted to port to a DSP chip I could not get a Java compiler for it.
>That is why SC is in C and not C++.
I think you will find that GCC exists for most of the worthwhile DSP
chips out there, and with it, G++. Thats certainly true for the SHARC 26XXX
and Motorola 56K series.
--p
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09889;
17 Jun 99 20:40 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ui1Q-0008IL-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:40:24 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (UAA15922); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:35:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:34:53 +0100
Received: from sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55] by hermes via ESMTP (UAA17087); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:34:52 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [24.93.53.161] ([24.93.53.161]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:32:11 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <199906171904.PAA14821@renoir.op.net>
References: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:32:24 MDT."
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:38:02 -0600
To: Paul Barton-Davis ,
music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
At 1:12 PM -0600 6/17/99, Paul Barton-Davis wrote:
>using in a multiprocessor system. If you wanted to do this kind thing
>on Linux, BeOS or various other systems, you'd be totally hosed. You
>would totally destroy system timing, amongst other things.
Totally false. How would I totally destroy system timing?
I see no problem at all with porting to Linux or BeOS.
I'm writing BeOS MediaKit code right now. I am aware of the issues
involved there and there is nothing there that would prevent SC
from living there.
You could
>never do inter-processor synchronization within an interrupt routine.
On the Mac it is an interrupt routine, on BeOS you are in a MediaKit
call back where you are also not able to do things which take
unbounded amounts of time either. SC's GC runs in bounded time.
Java's does not.
>I think you will find that GCC exists for most of the worthwhile DSP
>chips out there, and with it, G++. Thats certainly true for the SHARC 26XXX
>and Motorola 56K series.
Availability of C++ compilers are improving but they are still horrible
for the most part for DSP code generation.
I wrote the high level firmware for the Level Control Systems digital
mixers http://www.lcsaudio.com and we used C because the C++ compilers
sucked so badly.
I also wrote LCS's host software on BeOS. It is still one of the
largest programs ever shipped on BeOS, so I think I know that platform.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa09905;
17 Jun 99 20:54 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uiF3-0002ob-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:54:30 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27470
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27466
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 12:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [24.93.53.161] ([24.93.53.161]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:32:11 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <199906171904.PAA14821@renoir.op.net>
References: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:32:24 MDT."
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:38:02 -0600
To: Paul Barton-Davis ,
music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
At 1:12 PM -0600 6/17/99, Paul Barton-Davis wrote:
>using in a multiprocessor system. If you wanted to do this kind thing
>on Linux, BeOS or various other systems, you'd be totally hosed. You
>would totally destroy system timing, amongst other things.
Totally false. How would I totally destroy system timing?
I see no problem at all with porting to Linux or BeOS.
I'm writing BeOS MediaKit code right now. I am aware of the issues
involved there and there is nothing there that would prevent SC
from living there.
You could
>never do inter-processor synchronization within an interrupt routine.
On the Mac it is an interrupt routine, on BeOS you are in a MediaKit
call back where you are also not able to do things which take
unbounded amounts of time either. SC's GC runs in bounded time.
Java's does not.
>I think you will find that GCC exists for most of the worthwhile DSP
>chips out there, and with it, G++. Thats certainly true for the SHARC 26XXX
>and Motorola 56K series.
Availability of C++ compilers are improving but they are still horrible
for the most part for DSP code generation.
I wrote the high level firmware for the Level Control Systems digital
mixers http://www.lcsaudio.com and we used C because the C++ compilers
sucked so badly.
I also wrote LCS's host software on BeOS. It is still one of the
largest programs ever shipped on BeOS, so I think I know that platform.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10024;
17 Jun 99 21:38 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uivu-0008JM-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:38:46 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (VAA12699); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:33:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:33:24 +0100
Received: from exim@wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk [138.38.100.104] by hermes via ESMTP (VAA13128); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:33:23 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [138.38.97.36] (helo=maths.Bath.AC.UK ident=mmdf)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uiqn-0002po-00; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:33:29 +0100
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 99 21:33:27 BST
From: J P Fitch
To: Marc 3 Poirier
cc: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: csound.exe & csound95.exe
Message-Id:
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
csound95.exe was superceded bu consound some time back.
The "Failed to find DB file" message was a quick hack of mine and was a big
mistake. It means that you do not have the file csound.txt in a readable
place (current directory, SFDIR, SADIR or teh other one). If you read
American use teh csound.txt as distributed, or rename american.txt. If you
prefer English, then copy english.txt (French, Spanish, Japanese and
Swedish on their way I hope).
The consound.zip is teh true replacement for csound95.exe and contains
the langiuage-0specific database (or DB as we call it for short...)
Hope that is some help!
==John ff
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10188;
17 Jun 99 22:40 BST
Received: from [194.179.21.2] (helo=lix.intercom.es ident=root)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ujtD-0002rM-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:40:03 +0100
Received: from intercom.es (iv3-49.intercom.es [195.76.131.49]) by lix.intercom.es (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA27033; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:43:07 +0100
Message-ID: <37695BF6.120F4974@intercom.es>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:35:02 +0200
From: Josep M Comajuncosas
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: mj@exbang.com
CC: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, csound list ,
music-dsp list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <37692854.AC8AE909@exbang.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Michel Jullian wrote:
> I have no personal interest whatsoever in promoting Steinberg, but VST
> apparently can be used freely, and I think it is the best way to go for people
> who want their dsp code, whether free or commercial, to be widely and
> efficiently used for making "real" music (I mean with professional-grade sequencers).
Come on, with those pro-sequencers you cannot go further than recreating some plastified
classical or jazz arrangements or derive to some tonal, 4/4 based techno stuff (techno,
jungle, drum&bass, etc. all the same for me). I rarely use them (neither MIDI lately) in my
music. If "real" music = music people dance at the disco/ music you hear at the tube
stations, maybe Ill agree with you, but that is not certainly an extremely creative
challenge IMHO.
--
Josep M Comajuncosas
C/ Circumval.lacio 75 08790 Gelida - Penedes
Catalunya - SPAIN
home phone : 93 7792243 / 00 34 3 7792243
Csound page at http://members.tripod.com/csound/
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10197;
17 Jun 99 22:44 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ujxq-0002rQ-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:44:50 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (WAA07302); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:40:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:39:58 +0100
Received: from root@lix.intercom.es [194.179.21.2] by hermes via ESMTP (WAA07406); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:39:56 +0100 (BST)
Received: from intercom.es (iv3-49.intercom.es [195.76.131.49]) by lix.intercom.es (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA27033; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:43:07 +0100
Message-ID: <37695BF6.120F4974@intercom.es>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:35:02 +0200
From: Josep M Comajuncosas
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: mj@exbang.com
CC: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, csound list ,
music-dsp list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <37692854.AC8AE909@exbang.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by exeter.ac.uk id WAA07406
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Michel Jullian wrote:
> I have no personal interest whatsoever in promoting Steinberg, but VST
> apparently can be used freely, and I think it is the best way to go for=
people
> who want their dsp code, whether free or commercial, to be widely and
> efficiently used for making "real" music (I mean with professional-grad=
e sequencers).
Come on, with those pro-sequencers you cannot go further than recreating =
some plastified
classical or jazz arrangements or derive to some tonal, 4/4 based techno =
stuff (techno,
jungle, drum&bass, etc. all the same for me). I rarely use them (neither =
MIDI lately) in my
music. If "real" music =3D music people dance at the disco/ music you he=
ar at the tube
stations, maybe I=B4ll agree with you, but that is not certainly an extre=
mely creative
challenge IMHO.
--
Josep M Comajuncosas
C/ Circumval.lacio 75 08790 Gelida - Penedes
Catalunya - SPAIN
home phone : 93 7792243 / 00 34 3 7792243
Csound page at http://members.tripod.com/csound/
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10270;
17 Jun 99 23:47 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ukwK-0008LV-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:47:20 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (XAA02740); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:39:41 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:39:28 +0100
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31] by hermes via ESMTP (XAA16315); Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:39:27 +0100 (BST)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12494;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:39:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <003f01beb912$386beea0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: Richard Dobson , Robin Whittle
Cc: pete moss , music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
CSOUND
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: cmusic Was: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:39:10 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
I enthusiastically second the notion of simplicity in something like Csound.
I think something similar will evolve in Java with a modest GUI.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Dobson
To: Robin Whittle
Cc: pete moss ; music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
; CSOUND
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: cmusic Was: Csound and other synthesis systems
>A weblink for cmusic and pcmusic is:
>http://crca-www.ucsd.edu/cmusic/cmusic.html
>
>
>I suppose one significant difference between cmusic and Csound, which
>might explain the releative lack of 'modern' opcodes in the former, is
>that while cmusic has largely remained the property and product of F.R.
>Moore, Csound has reaped the benefit of a large, skilful, enthusiastic
>and mostly unrestrained net-wide user and development group. This is
>partly thanks to the prodigious work of John Fitch just about keeping
>everyone and everything co-ordinated, but partly also due to the fact
>that it is still essentially standard C, such that anybody can 'have a
>go' (including myself), on just about any platform (including the Atari
>ST) without have to climb a fierce learning curve of object-orientation,
>STL, multi-threading, yacc, lex, et al.
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10293;
17 Jun 99 23:55 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ul4d-0002si-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:55:55 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01731
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:39:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01727
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA12494;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:39:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <003f01beb912$386beea0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: Richard Dobson , Robin Whittle
Cc: pete moss , music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
CSOUND
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: cmusic Was: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:39:10 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
I enthusiastically second the notion of simplicity in something like Csound.
I think something similar will evolve in Java with a modest GUI.
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Dobson
To: Robin Whittle
Cc: pete moss ; music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
; CSOUND
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: cmusic Was: Csound and other synthesis systems
>A weblink for cmusic and pcmusic is:
>http://crca-www.ucsd.edu/cmusic/cmusic.html
>
>
>I suppose one significant difference between cmusic and Csound, which
>might explain the releative lack of 'modern' opcodes in the former, is
>that while cmusic has largely remained the property and product of F.R.
>Moore, Csound has reaped the benefit of a large, skilful, enthusiastic
>and mostly unrestrained net-wide user and development group. This is
>partly thanks to the prodigious work of John Fitch just about keeping
>everyone and everything co-ordinated, but partly also due to the fact
>that it is still essentially standard C, such that anybody can 'have a
>go' (including myself), on just about any platform (including the Atari
>ST) without have to climb a fierce learning curve of object-orientation,
>STL, multi-threading, yacc, lex, et al.
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10318;
18 Jun 99 0:02 BST
Received: from [207.69.200.31] (helo=smtp1.mindspring.com)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulAh-0002tU-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:02:11 +0100
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14619;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:02:01 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <004f01beb915$6b5d9720$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:02:04 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
VST is a plugin specification originated by Steinberg. People write code for
compressing vocal tracks, applying EQ, pitch shifting, de-noising, and the
like. These are then loaded at runtime by Cubase VST, a digital audio MIDI
sequencer, which can use them to process audio tracks that it records. Other
manufacturers have adopted the specification because it is a plain vanilla C
interface (yay!) unlike the DirectShow plugins also widely used for the same
purpose.
Steinberg has announced a VST 2 specification that will enable plugins to
access the MIDI events coming into the sequencer. This would make it
possible to create a VST plugin version of Csound that would act as a
software synthesizer and/or effects processor in the context of Cubase. But
the VST specification is not yet available. When it does become available I
will take a close look at it and I probably will give AXCsound a VST plugin
interface at that time.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu ;
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
>Message written at 16 Jun 1999 22:54:42 +0100
>
>OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
>What does it do for me?
>
>==John ffitch
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10342;
18 Jun 99 0:13 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulLo-0002uy-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:13:40 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA13695); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:02:19 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:02:06 +0100
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31] by hermes via ESMTP (AAA13796); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:02:05 +0100 (BST)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14619;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:02:01 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <004f01beb915$6b5d9720$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:02:04 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
VST is a plugin specification originated by Steinberg. People write code for
compressing vocal tracks, applying EQ, pitch shifting, de-noising, and the
like. These are then loaded at runtime by Cubase VST, a digital audio MIDI
sequencer, which can use them to process audio tracks that it records. Other
manufacturers have adopted the specification because it is a plain vanilla C
interface (yay!) unlike the DirectShow plugins also widely used for the same
purpose.
Steinberg has announced a VST 2 specification that will enable plugins to
access the MIDI events coming into the sequencer. This would make it
possible to create a VST plugin version of Csound that would act as a
software synthesizer and/or effects processor in the context of Cubase. But
the VST specification is not yet available. When it does become available I
will take a close look at it and I probably will give AXCsound a VST plugin
interface at that time.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu ;
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
>Message written at 16 Jun 1999 22:54:42 +0100
>
>OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
>What does it do for me?
>
>==John ffitch
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10349;
18 Jun 99 0:16 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulOs-0002v2-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:16:50 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02264
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:02:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02260
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14619;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:02:01 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <004f01beb915$6b5d9720$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk, music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:02:04 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
VST is a plugin specification originated by Steinberg. People write code for
compressing vocal tracks, applying EQ, pitch shifting, de-noising, and the
like. These are then loaded at runtime by Cubase VST, a digital audio MIDI
sequencer, which can use them to process audio tracks that it records. Other
manufacturers have adopted the specification because it is a plain vanilla C
interface (yay!) unlike the DirectShow plugins also widely used for the same
purpose.
Steinberg has announced a VST 2 specification that will enable plugins to
access the MIDI events coming into the sequencer. This would make it
possible to create a VST plugin version of Csound that would act as a
software synthesizer and/or effects processor in the context of Cubase. But
the VST specification is not yet available. When it does become available I
will take a close look at it and I probably will give AXCsound a VST plugin
interface at that time.
-----Original Message-----
From: jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu ;
csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
>Message written at 16 Jun 1999 22:54:42 +0100
>
>OK, so someone has to display their ignorance. What is a VST plugin?
>What does it do for me?
>
>==John ffitch
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10357;
18 Jun 99 0:17 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulPy-0008Nz-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:17:58 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA12538); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:06:43 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:06:32 +0100
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31] by hermes via ESMTP (AAA01514); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:06:31 +0100 (BST)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23173;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:06:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <005801beb916$0f305f40$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: mj@exbang.com
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Cc: music-dsp list ,
csound list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:06:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
I just wrote a program that uses recurrent iterated function systems to
generate fractals, displaying them in a finished GUI, then translating them
directly into WAV soundfiles using linearly interpolated oscillator bank
additive synthesis. This program saves and loads parameter files also. The
entire program took me 3 days to write. I did a similar program in C++
several years ago (I demonstrated it at an ICMC); it took me weeks to write
and did not run a whole lot faster, it had more bugs, and it was not as
finished. The difference in ease of writing is not due only to my increased
experience and having a prototype of the program. I have had similar
experience with other programs, some of which I wrote in Java first and then
in C++ rather than the reverse as in this case.
I think I have enough hands-on experience with both languages to see which
is actually better for this kind of purpose.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Jullian
To: Michael Gogins
Cc: music-dsp list ; csound list
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Another misconception: these days, Java IS fast. I do all my new DSP
coding
>> in Java. Java with best compilers is now about 1/2 the speed of C++. This
is
>> fast enough.
>
>Don't you think a factor of 2 is a lot ? Pity to waste half of your cpu
power
>for the beauty of no recompile. Non-platform specific C or C++ code might
be
>just as well.
>--
>Greetings,
>Michel
>.........................................................................
> Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
> Exbang Industries S.A.
> Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
> Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
>.........................................................................
>
>
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10363;
18 Jun 99 0:19 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulRX-0002v4-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:19:35 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02419
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02415
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA23173;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:06:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <005801beb916$0f305f40$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: mj@exbang.com
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Cc: music-dsp list ,
csound list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:06:39 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
I just wrote a program that uses recurrent iterated function systems to
generate fractals, displaying them in a finished GUI, then translating them
directly into WAV soundfiles using linearly interpolated oscillator bank
additive synthesis. This program saves and loads parameter files also. The
entire program took me 3 days to write. I did a similar program in C++
several years ago (I demonstrated it at an ICMC); it took me weeks to write
and did not run a whole lot faster, it had more bugs, and it was not as
finished. The difference in ease of writing is not due only to my increased
experience and having a prototype of the program. I have had similar
experience with other programs, some of which I wrote in Java first and then
in C++ rather than the reverse as in this case.
I think I have enough hands-on experience with both languages to see which
is actually better for this kind of purpose.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michel Jullian
To: Michael Gogins
Cc: music-dsp list ; csound list
Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
>Michael Gogins wrote:
>>
>> Another misconception: these days, Java IS fast. I do all my new DSP
coding
>> in Java. Java with best compilers is now about 1/2 the speed of C++. This
is
>> fast enough.
>
>Don't you think a factor of 2 is a lot ? Pity to waste half of your cpu
power
>for the beauty of no recompile. Non-platform specific C or C++ code might
be
>just as well.
>--
>Greetings,
>Michel
>.........................................................................
> Michel Jullian Directeur General email mj@exbang.com
> Exbang Industries S.A.
> Mas Chauvain route de Villeneuve tel +33(0) 499 529 878
> Maurin 34970 Lattes France fax +33(0) 499 529 879
>.........................................................................
>
>
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10374;
18 Jun 99 0:25 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulXV-0008O5-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:25:46 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA01746); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:18:07 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:17:56 +0100
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31] by hermes via ESMTP (AAA11290); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:17:55 +0100 (BST)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07616;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <009301beb917$a5c39fc0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk,
Paul Barton-Davis
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:52 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Paul has understood what I'm shooting for here, I think. What is going to
happen in music, I'm becoming increasingly certain, is that there will be
"frameworks" such as (for example) Cubase VST, Cool Edit Pro, Pro Tools, or
Buzz (to choose examples of the same basic idea from a wildly diverse set of
worlds) that handle user input and output, and sound input and output; the
actual music machinery is then plugins for this framework; and some of these
plugins will implement complete languages (like Csound or like
SuperCollider).
>>I know of no Java that is capable of running in real time with performance
>>guarantees and able to run in an interrupt routine where memory allocation
>>is illegal. SuperCollider was designed to be able to do this.
>
....
>i am at a loss to understand why you chose to do things in an
>interrupt routine. i guess i am just too much of a unix head to grok
>the Mac (and maybe Windows) world.
>
>>Third, the SC virtual machine is C which is far more portable than Java.
>
>Michael's idea, I think, is to not write the VM in Java, but to use a
>C implementation to support Java's "native methods" (i.e. things that
>appear to be builtins in Java). I'm not attracted to this idea all
>that much, but it seems like quite a reasonable one to me.
>
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10404;
18 Jun 99 0:32 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uleD-0002vM-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:32:42 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02702
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from smtp1.mindspring.com (smtp1.mindspring.com [207.69.200.31])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02698
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:18:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Realizer (user-2ive0ia.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.2.74])
by smtp1.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA07616;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:53 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <009301beb917$a5c39fc0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
From: Michael Gogins
To: music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk,
Paul Barton-Davis
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:52 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Paul has understood what I'm shooting for here, I think. What is going to
happen in music, I'm becoming increasingly certain, is that there will be
"frameworks" such as (for example) Cubase VST, Cool Edit Pro, Pro Tools, or
Buzz (to choose examples of the same basic idea from a wildly diverse set of
worlds) that handle user input and output, and sound input and output; the
actual music machinery is then plugins for this framework; and some of these
plugins will implement complete languages (like Csound or like
SuperCollider).
>>I know of no Java that is capable of running in real time with performance
>>guarantees and able to run in an interrupt routine where memory allocation
>>is illegal. SuperCollider was designed to be able to do this.
>
....
>i am at a loss to understand why you chose to do things in an
>interrupt routine. i guess i am just too much of a unix head to grok
>the Mac (and maybe Windows) world.
>
>>Third, the SC virtual machine is C which is far more portable than Java.
>
>Michael's idea, I think, is to not write the VM in Java, but to use a
>C implementation to support Java's "native methods" (i.e. things that
>appear to be builtins in Java). I'm not attracted to this idea all
>that much, but it seems like quite a reasonable one to me.
>
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10418;
18 Jun 99 0:43 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uloI-0002ve-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:43:06 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (AAA13970); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:35:53 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:35:42 +0100
Received: from sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55] by hermes via ESMTP (AAA14006); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:35:41 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [24.93.53.161] ([24.93.53.161]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:32:56 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <009301beb917$a5c39fc0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:38:47 -0600
To: Michael Gogins ,
music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk,
Paul Barton-Davis
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
At 5:17 PM -0600 6/17/99, Michael Gogins wrote:
>Paul has understood what I'm shooting for here, I think. What is going to
>happen in music, I'm becoming increasingly certain, is that there will be
>"frameworks" such as (for example) Cubase VST, Cool Edit Pro, Pro Tools, or
>Buzz (to choose examples of the same basic idea from a wildly diverse set of
>worlds) that handle user input and output, and sound input and output; the
>actual music machinery is then plugins for this framework; and some of these
>plugins will implement complete languages (like Csound or like
>SuperCollider).
OK I see. Well in this respect BeOS is ahead because their MediaKit
already implements a way for media components to talk to each other.
The downside is that it is a very complex API and you must use C++.
Such a framework on Linux would be very interesting.
There is no reason SC could not be a plug in for VST, etc, but
it would be a very fat one.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10429;
18 Jun 99 0:51 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10ulwL-0002vi-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:51:25 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03126
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03122
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:35:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [24.93.53.161] ([24.93.53.161]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:32:56 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <009301beb917$a5c39fc0$79d496c0@Realizer.ngt.sungard.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:38:47 -0600
To: Michael Gogins ,
music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk,
Paul Barton-Davis
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
At 5:17 PM -0600 6/17/99, Michael Gogins wrote:
>Paul has understood what I'm shooting for here, I think. What is going to
>happen in music, I'm becoming increasingly certain, is that there will be
>"frameworks" such as (for example) Cubase VST, Cool Edit Pro, Pro Tools, or
>Buzz (to choose examples of the same basic idea from a wildly diverse set of
>worlds) that handle user input and output, and sound input and output; the
>actual music machinery is then plugins for this framework; and some of these
>plugins will implement complete languages (like Csound or like
>SuperCollider).
OK I see. Well in this respect BeOS is ahead because their MediaKit
already implements a way for media components to talk to each other.
The downside is that it is a very complex API and you must use C++.
Such a framework on Linux would be very interesting.
There is no reason SC could not be a plug in for VST, etc, but
it would be a very fat one.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10481;
18 Jun 99 1:11 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10umFv-0008Oh-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:11:39 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (BAA17628); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:04:13 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:04:02 +0100
Received: from root@www.tomy.net [209.186.149.104] by hermes via ESMTP (BAA17066); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:04:00 +0100 (BST)
Received: from cygnus.com (IDENT:thudson@jimi.tomy.net [192.168.1.2])
by www.tomy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16964;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:29:32 -0400
Message-ID: <37698F17.B022B24C@cygnus.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:13:11 -0400
From: Thomas Hudson
Organization: Cygnus Solutions
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James McCartney
CC: Michael Gogins ,
music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk,
Paul Barton-Davis
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
James McCartney wrote:
>
> OK I see. Well in this respect BeOS is ahead because their MediaKit
> already implements a way for media components to talk to each other.
> The downside is that it is a very complex API and you must use C++.
>
> Such a framework on Linux would be very interesting.
>
I actually started this. With the ALSA sequencer it was easy to
implement the MidiKit classes. Though once I finished, I discovered
the signal mechanisms in Gtk--, which allow unrelated classes to be
connected to receive signals from each other. So I decided to implement
my classes using this mechanism instead of deriving from the MidiKit
base classes to implement functionality. I had never liked the
approach of requiring derivation in order to get functionality. It
seems to always cause code-bloat.
Thomas
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10490;
18 Jun 99 1:14 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10umJ0-0008Ol-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:14:51 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03835
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:04:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from www.tomy.net (IDENT:root@www.tomy.net [209.186.149.104])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03831
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cygnus.com (IDENT:thudson@jimi.tomy.net [192.168.1.2])
by www.tomy.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16964;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:29:32 -0400
Message-ID: <37698F17.B022B24C@cygnus.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:13:11 -0400
From: Thomas Hudson
Organization: Cygnus Solutions
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i686)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James McCartney
CC: Michael Gogins ,
music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk,
Paul Barton-Davis
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
James McCartney wrote:
>
> OK I see. Well in this respect BeOS is ahead because their MediaKit
> already implements a way for media components to talk to each other.
> The downside is that it is a very complex API and you must use C++.
>
> Such a framework on Linux would be very interesting.
>
I actually started this. With the ALSA sequencer it was easy to
implement the MidiKit classes. Though once I finished, I discovered
the signal mechanisms in Gtk--, which allow unrelated classes to be
connected to receive signals from each other. So I decided to implement
my classes using this mechanism instead of deriving from the MidiKit
base classes to implement functionality. I had never liked the
approach of requiring derivation in order to get functionality. It
seems to always cause code-bloat.
Thomas
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10780;
18 Jun 99 4:36 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10upSW-0002zQ-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:36:52 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA15465); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:28:48 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:28:36 +0100
Received: from ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA17046); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:28:34 +0100 (BST)
Received: from bigfoot.com (p228-238.atnt5.dialup.ftw1.flash.net [209.30.228.238])
by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07129;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:28:35 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <3769BD73.17B36478@bigfoot.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:30:59 -0500
From: pete moss
Organization: pete moss GmbH
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
"csound@maths.ex.ac.uk"
Subject: BeOS (was: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems)
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
so with all this talk about OS and dev platforms, does anyone know if
BeOS is ready for primetime? in other words, can i _do_ anything with
it, or is it still in development?
:P
"Matt J. Ingalls" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, James McCartney wrote:
>
> > OK I see. Well in this respect BeOS is ahead because their MediaKit
> > already implements a way for media components to talk to each other.
>
> im surprised Be (and others) arent hype-ing this. basically the OS
> becomes the "framework" and apps themselves become the "plug-ins" -
> and if these little effects apps all are "replicants" you could turn your
> workspace/desktop into a "virtual studio" (could you not?) -> a fully
> configurable array of fx boxes, graphic displays, etc..
>
> -matt
>
> dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
> http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10788;
18 Jun 99 4:39 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10upUt-0008Rh-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:39:19 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06527
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from ares.flash.net (ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06523
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:28:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bigfoot.com (p228-238.atnt5.dialup.ftw1.flash.net [209.30.228.238])
by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07129;
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:28:35 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID: <3769BD73.17B36478@bigfoot.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:30:59 -0500
From: pete moss
Organization: pete moss GmbH
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
"csound@maths.ex.ac.uk"
Subject: BeOS (was: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems)
References:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
so with all this talk about OS and dev platforms, does anyone know if
BeOS is ready for primetime? in other words, can i _do_ anything with
it, or is it still in development?
:P
"Matt J. Ingalls" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, James McCartney wrote:
>
> > OK I see. Well in this respect BeOS is ahead because their MediaKit
> > already implements a way for media components to talk to each other.
>
> im surprised Be (and others) arent hype-ing this. basically the OS
> becomes the "framework" and apps themselves become the "plug-ins" -
> and if these little effects apps all are "replicants" you could turn your
> workspace/desktop into a "virtual studio" (could you not?) -> a fully
> configurable array of fx boxes, graphic displays, etc..
>
> -matt
>
> dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
> http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10817;
18 Jun 99 4:51 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10upgH-0008Rr-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:51:05 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA07568); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:43:50 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:43:39 +0100
Received: from sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA09243); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:43:38 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [24.93.53.42] ([24.93.53.42]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:40:50 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <3769BD73.17B36478@bigfoot.com>
References:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:46:41 -0600
To: pete moss , music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
"csound@maths.ex.ac.uk"
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: BeOS (was: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems)
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
At 9:30 PM -0600 6/17/99, pete moss wrote:
>so with all this talk about OS and dev platforms, does anyone know if
>BeOS is ready for primetime? in other words, can i _do_ anything with
>it, or is it still in development?
I just got my regular (not beta) 4.5 release copy in the mail today.
This has the complete MediaKit included.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10825;
18 Jun 99 4:54 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10upjG-0002zj-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:54:11 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06713
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:43:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06707
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:43:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [24.93.53.42] ([24.93.53.42]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18);
Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:40:50 -0500
X-Sender: asynth@mail.io.com
Message-Id:
In-Reply-To: <3769BD73.17B36478@bigfoot.com>
References:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:46:41 -0600
To: pete moss , music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu,
"csound@maths.ex.ac.uk"
From: James McCartney
Subject: Re: BeOS (was: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems)
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
At 9:30 PM -0600 6/17/99, pete moss wrote:
>so with all this talk about OS and dev platforms, does anyone know if
>BeOS is ready for primetime? in other words, can i _do_ anything with
>it, or is it still in development?
I just got my regular (not beta) 4.5 release copy in the mail today.
This has the complete MediaKit included.
--- james mccartney james@audiosynth.com http://www.audiosynth.com
If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10831;
18 Jun 99 4:57 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10upm1-0008Rx-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:57:01 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA17945); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:49:36 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:49:25 +0100
Received: from root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA14763); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:49:24 +0100 (BST)
Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm3-05.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.69]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id XAA28664; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199906180349.XAA28664@renoir.op.net>
To: music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:13:11 EDT."
<37698F17.B022B24C@cygnus.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:58:10 -0400
From: Paul Barton-Davis
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
>I actually started this. With the ALSA sequencer it was easy to
>implement the MidiKit classes. Though once I finished, I discovered
>the signal mechanisms in Gtk-- ...
Thomas - be sure to switch to Karl Nelson's new implementation of
this, libsigc++, which greatly reduces both the memory and run-time
cost of signal sending and receiving. Gtk-- will use this in some
RSN/future version.
http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~kenelson/libsigc++/
Quasimodo uses this for all non-GUI inter-object signalling. Because
the GUI is GTK, it uses the current Gtk-- method, but these will
obviously become the some thing as soon as Gtk-- switches.
--p
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10838;
18 Jun 99 4:58 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10upn0-0008Rz-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:58:02 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (EAA13354); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:50:53 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:50:41 +0100
Received: from out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239] by hermes via ESMTP (EAA13751); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:50:40 +0100 (BST)
Received: from ibm.net (slip-32-100-159-144.dc.us.ibm.net [32.100.159.144]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA08340; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 03:50:43 GMT
Message-ID: <3769C30A.568D201F@ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:54:50 -0400
From: "Job M. van Zuijlen"
Reply-To: zuijlen@ibm.net
Organization: electona
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Josep M Comajuncosas
CC: csound list ,
music-dsp list
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
References: <37692854.AC8AE909@exbang.com> <37695BF6.120F4974@intercom.es>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by exeter.ac.uk id EAA13751
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
I think that has more to do with the people who use the sequencers. I
have been using Logic from Emagic for years (and even when it was called
Creator/Notator) and have been able to do other things with it than what
you list. Because the PC implementation of Logic didn't work very well
for me, I had to give it up, which I regret because it had some features
that I do miss in my current sequencer. A decent sequencer will let you
change the time signature during the piece or, if you don't want to use
that you can arrange your events anyway you want in time, which is nice
for minimal music.
Job van Zuijlen
Josep M Comajuncosas wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Come on, with those pro-sequencers you cannot go further than recreatin=
g some plastified
> classical or jazz arrangements or derive to some tonal, 4/4 based techn=
o stuff (techno,
> jungle, drum&bass, etc. all the same for me). I rarely use them (neithe=
r MIDI lately) in my
> music. If "real" music =3D music people dance at the disco/ music you =
hear at the tube
> stations, maybe I=B4ll agree with you, but that is not certainly an ext=
remely creative
> challenge IMHO.
>
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa10858;
18 Jun 99 5:00 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uppZ-0008S1-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:00:42 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06835
for music-dsp-outgoing; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from renoir.op.net (root@renoir.op.net [209.152.193.4])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06831
for ; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from someip.ppp.op.net (d-bm3-05.ppp.op.net [209.152.194.69]) by renoir.op.net (o1/$Revision: 1.18 $) with ESMTP id XAA28664; Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199906180349.XAA28664@renoir.op.net>
To: music-dsp list , csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:13:11 EDT."
<37698F17.B022B24C@cygnus.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:58:10 -0400
From: Paul Barton-Davis
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
>I actually started this. With the ALSA sequencer it was easy to
>implement the MidiKit classes. Though once I finished, I discovered
>the signal mechanisms in Gtk-- ...
Thomas - be sure to switch to Karl Nelson's new implementation of
this, libsigc++, which greatly reduces both the memory and run-time
cost of signal sending and receiving. Gtk-- will use this in some
RSN/future version.
http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~kenelson/libsigc++/
Quasimodo uses this for all non-GUI inter-object signalling. Because
the GUI is GTK, it uses the current Gtk-- method, but these will
obviously become the some thing as soon as Gtk-- switches.
--p
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11279;
18 Jun 99 10:19 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uuo8-0003BB-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:19:32 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA12012); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:14:26 +0100 (BST)
From: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:14:15 +0100
Received: from saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA12709); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:14:14 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [207.241.63.6] (poolf1-005.wwa.com [207.241.63.6])
by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id EAA20754;
Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:14:13 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199906180914.EAA20754@saba.wwa.com>
X-Sender: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:15:41 -0600
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, CSOUND
Subject: zp97/p079&(&O.5.v7
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, CSOUND
>To add to Sean Costello's list of books, there is an impressive book
>on filter design which I have bought but not read yet:
>
>It comes with a floppy disc of source code.
>It is a magnificent-looking book,
kovr
>but it assumes more knowledge of
>calculus, z-transforms, real and imaginary numbers and the like than I
>have at present.
= eczpress!ng dez!r !n ar!v!ng at 1 prznl konkluz!on auss!.
source code = ava!lbl +?
>It is clear that there is no alternative to knowing
>this stuff if you want to do DSP in the frequency domain.
!t != klear !t = klear `know` = klear
komput.
calculus, z-transforms, real and imaginary numbers and the like
= lazt faze ov rel!g!ouz akt!v!t! !n organ!szd human zoz!et!
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11422;
18 Jun 99 10:33 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uv22-0003Bl-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:33:55 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA11858
for music-dsp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:14:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11854
for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:14:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com
Received: from [207.241.63.6] (poolf1-005.wwa.com [207.241.63.6])
by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id EAA20754;
Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:14:13 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199906180914.EAA20754@saba.wwa.com>
X-Sender: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:15:41 -0600
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, CSOUND
Subject: zp97/p079&(&O.5.v7
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, CSOUND
>To add to Sean Costello's list of books, there is an impressive book
>on filter design which I have bought but not read yet:
>
>It comes with a floppy disc of source code.
>It is a magnificent-looking book,
kovr
>but it assumes more knowledge of
>calculus, z-transforms, real and imaginary numbers and the like than I
>have at present.
= eczpress!ng dez!r !n ar!v!ng at 1 prznl konkluz!on auss!.
source code = ava!lbl +?
>It is clear that there is no alternative to knowing
>this stuff if you want to do DSP in the frequency domain.
!t != klear !t = klear `know` = klear
komput.
calculus, z-transforms, real and imaginary numbers and the like
= lazt faze ov rel!g!ouz akt!v!t! !n organ!szd human zoz!et!
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11446;
18 Jun 99 10:42 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uvAG-0003CG-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:42:24 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA16413); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:37:34 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:37:20 +0100
Received: from hawk.glasnet.ru [193.124.5.50] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA13993); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:37:17 +0100 (BST)
Received: from mustang.glasnet.ru([193.124.5.62]) (1248 bytes) by hawk.glasnet.ru
via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:inet_hosts/T:inet_zone_smtp
(sender: )
id
for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:37:07 +0400 (MSD)
(Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #3 built DST-Apr-19)
Received: from default(ppp419.glas.apc.org[194.154.91.119]) (846 bytes) by mustang.glasnet.ru
via sendmail with P:esmtp/R:smart_host/T:smtp
(sender: )
id
for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:37:07 +0400 (MSD)
(Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #3 built 1999-Jun-9)
Message-Id:
From: Sergey Batov
To: csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at UK.AC.Bath.maths.omphalos
Subject: off topic: PCI audiocards
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:36:35 +0400
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1251
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
Hi!
Excuse me for off topic question.
Can anybody, please, let me know where
it's possible in WWW to find information
about professional (without synth.) PCI audiocards?
I need details about architecture of PCI audiocards,
principles realisation of DSP, interaction with computer's
CPU, e.t.c. Also I'd like find some block diagrams.
Big thanks in advance,
Sergey Batov batov@glasnet.ru
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11456;
18 Jun 99 10:47 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uvFB-0000Aw-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:47:29 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (KAA14638); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:42:42 +0100 (BST)
From: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:42:30 +0100
Received: from saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36] by hermes via ESMTP (KAA15967); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:42:28 +0100 (BST)
Received: from [207.241.63.6] (poolf1-005.wwa.com [207.241.63.6])
by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id EAA02912;
Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:42:32 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199906180942.EAA02912@saba.wwa.com>
X-Sender: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:44:00 -0600
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
>Whatever your religious objections to Windows,
if you create
>if you create a
>cross-platform virtual machine that works with Java, then you get it to run
>on Linux (or BeOS if BeOS have a Java virtual machine) and, without hurting
>anyone on those other platforms, it also runs on Windows where there are
>lots and lots of musicians who could use SuperCollider.
personally
>I started on Unix and moved to Windows not for religious reasons, but
>because
an employee
>it made my musical life happen at home and more cheaply than any
>other way without really losing any vital functionality.
I started
>I personally believe
where bl!ef = knouledge !=
>that some virtual-machine system is bound to run almost
>all software in the end.
!n dze end du = losing vital functionality
I think where bl!ef = knouledge != !n dze end
>I think
descend
>Java, its descendent,
engl!sch
>or something like it
=cw4t7abs
>will end up running on everything from supercomputers to watches.
!= ess. plz updat watch
>I think
religious akt!v!t!
>this will happen because
1 != ztajt bkausz ma!z _ warum
>software is more expensive than hardware
1
>and
>general-purpose software is cheaper than special-purpose software.
foto = ultra cheap auss!
>Note how
>the Ptolemy DSP project at UCB for the Navy has moved from C++ to Java in
>the past two years.
>Also Roldan Pozo and other big guns in numerics and
>supercomputing are pushing Java Grande because, I suspect, they anticipate
>distributed Java apps that can do more than any single app on any single
>machine.
konztataz!on
.Navy + .edu + other .big guns
!= kan wr!te oun zuprkol!dr.
james mccartney - 1 single machine
outper4mz .Navy + .edu + other .big guns
konztataz!on - all progresz = takex plasz at dze per!fer!
>>>I would love if it SuperCollider:
>>>
>>>(a) ran on Windows
+
>>If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
>>
konztataz!on - all progresz = takex plasz at dze per!fer!
Received: from wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11476;
18 Jun 99 11:03 BST
Received: from [156.3.140.104] (helo=shoko.calarts.edu)
by wallace.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uvUH-0003DI-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:03:06 +0100
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA12150
for music-dsp-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:42:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: shoko.calarts.edu: majordom set sender to owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu using -f
Received: from saba.wwa.com (saba.wwa.com [198.49.174.36])
by shoko.calarts.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA12146
for ; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:42:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com
Received: from [207.241.63.6] (poolf1-005.wwa.com [207.241.63.6])
by saba.wwa.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id EAA02912;
Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:42:32 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199906180942.EAA02912@saba.wwa.com>
X-Sender: f1f0@m9ndfukc.com (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:44:00 -0600
To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu, csound@maths.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Csound and other synthesis systems
Sender: owner-music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: music-dsp@shoko.calarts.edu
>Whatever your religious objections to Windows,
if you create
>if you create a
>cross-platform virtual machine that works with Java, then you get it to run
>on Linux (or BeOS if BeOS have a Java virtual machine) and, without hurting
>anyone on those other platforms, it also runs on Windows where there are
>lots and lots of musicians who could use SuperCollider.
personally
>I started on Unix and moved to Windows not for religious reasons, but
>because
an employee
>it made my musical life happen at home and more cheaply than any
>other way without really losing any vital functionality.
I started
>I personally believe
where bl!ef = knouledge !=
>that some virtual-machine system is bound to run almost
>all software in the end.
!n dze end du = losing vital functionality
I think where bl!ef = knouledge != !n dze end
>I think
descend
>Java, its descendent,
engl!sch
>or something like it
=cw4t7abs
>will end up running on everything from supercomputers to watches.
!= ess. plz updat watch
>I think
religious akt!v!t!
>this will happen because
1 != ztajt bkausz ma!z _ warum
>software is more expensive than hardware
1
>and
>general-purpose software is cheaper than special-purpose software.
foto = ultra cheap auss!
>Note how
>the Ptolemy DSP project at UCB for the Navy has moved from C++ to Java in
>the past two years.
>Also Roldan Pozo and other big guns in numerics and
>supercomputing are pushing Java Grande because, I suspect, they anticipate
>distributed Java apps that can do more than any single app on any single
>machine.
konztataz!on
.Navy + .edu + other .big guns
!= kan wr!te oun zuprkol!dr.
james mccartney - 1 single machine
outper4mz .Navy + .edu + other .big guns
konztataz!on - all progresz = takex plasz at dze per!fer!
>>>I would love if it SuperCollider:
>>>
>>>(a) ran on Windows
+
>>If you have a PowerMac check out SuperCollider2, a real time synth program:
>>
konztataz!on - all progresz = takex plasz at dze per!fer!
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Received: from shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk by omphalos.maths.Bath.AC.UK id aa11611;
18 Jun 99 11:58 BST
Received: from [144.173.6.14] (helo=exeter.ac.uk)
by shaun.maths.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1)
id 10uwM0-0000D4-00
for jpff@maths.bath.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:58:36 +0100
Received: from noether [144.173.8.10] by hermes via SMTP (LAA04156); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:50:40 +0100 (BST)
Received: from exeter.ac.uk by maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:50:27 +0100
Received: from exim@mail.i-cue.co.za [196.15.227.12] by hermes via ESMTP (LAA08308); Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:50:25 +0100 (BST)
Received: from firewall.intouch.co.za ([196.15.227.9] helo=taz)
by mail.i-cue.co.za with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1)
id 10uwE8-0000Vd-00
for csound@maths.ex.ac.uk; Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:50:28 +0200
Message-ID: <002b01beb980$d3cccf40$7b00a8c0@taz.intouch.co.za>
From: Paul Barrett
To: csoundlist
Subject: re:Csound and other synthesis systems
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:49:33 +0100
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-csound-outgoing@maths.ex.ac.uk
Precedence: bulk
You obviously have very little imagination if all you can think to do with
pro-sequencers is to create standard techno ( which IS very dull music ) or
plastified classical or jazz arrangements. There is so much more that can
be done. I use Cakewalk Pro Audio for creating music out of sounds created
in a variety of ways, including waveshaping with Soundforge and sounds
generated with csound. So far I haven't produced anything much, but then
the same can be said for csound. It's not the tool you use, but how you use
it. Only those with no creativity produce boring music; and only those who
have no idea what they are talking about can say that all forms of techno
are the same to them. Techno is just like any other musical form
including classical, jazz, opera, country, anything you care to name ) -
MOST OF IT IS COMPLETE CRAP!!!!!!!!!! and then there is the good stuff.
All opera sounds the same to me ( and I hate the sound ) but I have friends
who love it, and I respect that they see it in a different way to me; and
most importantly, although I don't like it, I respect the creativity of
those who do it well, and I understand that it has musical worth. You
cannot shoot something down because you have no understanding of it; and
for the record - the techno that I like you will not hear on the radio, or
the tube, or on tv, or whatever, becuse it's not commercial crap like what
you generally get fed by the media.
important note : I listen to many forms of music other than techno, and I
rate them all the same - if they're good, they're good.
if I've misinterpreted anything you've said, set me straight
if I've offended you in any way, maybe you shouldn't get offended so easily
regards
Paul Barrett
> I have no personal interest whatsoever in promoting Steinberg, but VST
> apparently can be used freely, and I think it is the best way to go for
people
> who want their dsp code, whether free or commercial, to be widely and
> efficiently used for making "real" music (I mean with professional-grade
sequencers).
Come on, with those pro-sequencers you cannot go further than recreating
some plastified
classical or jazz arrangements or derive to some tonal, 4/4 based techno
stuff (techno,
jungle, drum&bass, etc. all the same for me). I rarely use them (neither
MIDI lately) in my
music. If "real" music = music people dance at the disco/ music you hear at
the tube
stations, maybe Ill agree with you, but that is not certainly an extremely
creative
challenge IMHO.
--
Josep M Comajuncosas
C/ Circumval.lacio 75 08790 Gelida - Penedes
Catalunya - SPAIN
home phone : 93 7792243 / 00 34 3 7792243
Csound page at http://members.tripod.com/csound/
|