Hey hey,
I'm trying to create a frozen reverb effect, but I'm still not satisfied with 
the result. Question is if the method or the parameters are wrong. :)

I've tried pvs opcodes with PVS freeze, which is not bad, but still rich in 
artefacts.

The other approach is granular synthesis - currently using syncgrain, but when 
I set the kprate to 0, the resultant audio is mainly determined by the grain 
frequency. I've tried with frequencies between 50 and 300Hz. The granular 
synthesis was the option suggested in several places on the internet.

Is there a better way? Perhaps, by using one of the Csound reverbs and 
tweaking a certain parameter? Or which way to turn?

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
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Would some kind of system of delay lines help (like 100% feedback, but cut out 
inputs when buffer is filled?)

Probably I did not understand what you are after, though...

tarmo

On kolmapäev, 14. juuni 2017 20:21.01 EEST you wrote:
> Hey hey,
> I'm trying to create a frozen reverb effect, but I'm still not satisfied
> with the result. Question is if the method or the parameters are wrong. :)
> 
> I've tried pvs opcodes with PVS freeze, which is not bad, but still rich in
> artefacts.
> 
> The other approach is granular synthesis - currently using syncgrain, but
> when I set the kprate to 0, the resultant audio is mainly determined by the
> grain frequency. I've tried with frequencies between 50 and 300Hz. The
> granular synthesis was the option suggested in several places on the
> internet.
> 
> Is there a better way? Perhaps, by using one of the Csound reverbs and
> tweaking a certain parameter? Or which way to turn?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jeanette
> 
> --------
> When you need someone, you just turn around and I will be there <3
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Jun 14 2017, Michael Gogins has written:

> What is a frozen reverb?
...
Hi Michael,
it's the term that I found on the internet. It's the effect of freezing
the sound of a reverb, as found in the Bigsky and other soft and
hardware reverbs, especially suited to ambient and drone music. In
Protools - for example -, the effect can be achieved by putting part of
reverbed audio into a separate track and using Protool's freeze audio
function.

On the net, most comments, that I'd found, suggested using some sort of
granular synthesis. Though I must say that the pvsfreeze had yielded the
best results yet.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

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Jun 14 2017, Tarmo Johannes has written:

> Would some kind of system of delay lines help (like 100% feedback, but cut out
> inputs when buffer is filled?)
Not sure. I was already starting to think about something like this, but
didn't see how it could be done.
>
> Probably I did not understand what you are after, though...
Here's a demo of the effect I'm looking for. I'm sorry, it's a
commercial product demo, but reduced to that effect only:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv9QWoHCFhQ

Best wishes and thanks,

Jeanette
...

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hi jeanette -

i think there are several ways, and the result will be different ways of 
"frozen reverb".

1. you could experiment with setting the kRoomSize parameter of freeverb 
(http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/freeverb.html) to 1 or nearly 1. 
similar with other reverbs, like reverbsc.

2. pvsfreeze can be combined with opcodes like pvsblur or pvsmooth, to 
lower the artifacts.  you could also use mincer or similar pvs-based 
opcode to *nearly" hold the same time position, and then smooth the 
result (= avoid repeating frames).

3. granular synthesis can also be used for "freezing", but it also needs 
a lot of tweaking.  i did an example in CsoundQt > Examples > 
Miscellaneous > SF Granular, and then preset 2.

i'd say:
1) gives you a "real" reverb with more or less infinite reverb time.
2) depends very much on the input sound, and on many tweakings.
3) can have some sound qualities from a reverb, but usually the granular 
will be audible.

and certainly there are much more possibilities ... =)

best -
	joachim



On 14/06/17 20:21, Jeanette C. wrote:
> Hey hey,
> I'm trying to create a frozen reverb effect, but I'm still not satisfied
> with the result. Question is if the method or the parameters are wrong. :)
>
> I've tried pvs opcodes with PVS freeze, which is not bad, but still rich
> in artefacts.
>
> The other approach is granular synthesis - currently using syncgrain,
> but when I set the kprate to 0, the resultant audio is mainly determined
> by the grain frequency. I've tried with frequencies between 50 and
> 300Hz. The granular synthesis was the option suggested in several places
> on the internet.
>
> Is there a better way? Perhaps, by using one of the Csound reverbs and
> tweaking a certain parameter? Or which way to turn?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jeanette
>
> --------
> When you need someone, you just turn around and I will be there <3
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>

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Jun 14 2017, joachim heintz has written:
...
> 1. you could experiment with setting the kRoomSize parameter of freeverb 
> (http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/freeverb.html) to 1 or nearly 1. similar 
> with other reverbs, like reverbsc.
...
Hi Joachim,
thanks for your kind reply. I will give the above solution a go with a
couple of the built-in Csound reverbs.

Best wishes,

Jeanette

--------
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Hi,

This is not exactly the same, but I have played long sound from recorded 
buffer with soundwarp  - you could move the time pointer back and forth to 
keep it going forever. In the example giBuffer was the table with stored sound

---

;schedule "play_buffer",0,30
instr play_buffer
	
	imax TableMax_i giBuffer, 1
	if (imax==0) then ; quit when the buffer is empty
		turnoff
	endif

	NormalizeTable giBuffer, giNormalizedBuffer, -3 ; to -3 db
	
	aenv madsr 0.05,0.1, 0.6, 0.05 ; linen 1,0.01,p3,0.05

	;ktimewarp init p3/$BUFLEN ;
	ktimewarp line 0, p3, $BUFLEN	
	kresample init 1		;do not change pitch
	ibeg = 0			;start at beginning
	iwsize = sr/5 ; 44100			;window size in samples with
	irandw = iwsize*0.2 ;882			;bandwidth of a random number generator
	itimemode = 1			;1- ktimewarp is "time" pointer; 0 - scale
	ioverlap = 64 ; the bigger the better but more cpu
	
	asig sndwarp 0.5, ktimewarp, kresample,giNormalizedBuffer, ibeg, iwsize, 
irandw, ioverlap, giWindow, itimemode
	
	alowShelf pareq asig, 600,ampdb(chnget:k("lowgain")), 0.2, 1
	ahighShelf pareq asig, 600,ampdb(chnget:k("highgain")), 0.2, 2 
	
	kbufferLevel port chnget:k("buffer"), 0.02
	aout = (alowShelf+ahighShelf+asig*0.1)*0.5 * gkLevel * aenv * kbufferLevel 
		 
	outs aout,aout
endin



---


tarmo



On kolmapäev, 14. juuni 2017 21:55.37 EEST you wrote:
> Jun 14 2017, joachim heintz has written:
> ...
> 
> > 1. you could experiment with setting the kRoomSize parameter of freeverb
> > (http://csound.github.io/docs/manual/freeverb.html) to 1 or nearly 1.
> > similar with other reverbs, like reverbsc.
> 
> ...
> Hi Joachim,
> thanks for your kind reply. I will give the above solution a go with a
> couple of the built-in Csound reverbs.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jeanette
> 
> --------
> When you need someone, you just turn around and I will be there <3
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Hi there,
after some experimentation, I found that reverbsc with a feedback level of 
exactly one sounds just perfect. Since the feedback level is a k-rate control, 
the effect can be used very flexibly.

After adding some "shimmer" (reverb signal pitch shifted up harmonically) this 
is beautiful. For live use, I only need to set it up with two instances, so 
the frozen part can keep going, while the continued input signal can still be 
reverberated.

Best wishes,

Jeanette


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Jun 15 2017, Arthur Hunkins has written:

> I'd be very interested in seeing your .csd, as I too am very taken by
> "shimmer."
It's very raw yet and could be fine tuned more, but here it is:
http://juliencoder.de/frev.csd

Enjoy, and if you have any particular comments (good, bad or curious)
let me know. :)

Best wishes,

Jeanette
...

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very nice and clean example, thank you, Jeanette!

tarmo

On neljapäev, 15. juuni 2017 11:40.41 EEST you wrote:
> Jun 15 2017, Arthur Hunkins has written:
> > I'd be very interested in seeing your .csd, as I too am very taken by
> > "shimmer."
> 
> It's very raw yet and could be fine tuned more, but here it is:
> http://juliencoder.de/frev.csd
> 
> Enjoy, and if you have any particular comments (good, bad or curious)
> let me know. :)
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jeanette
> ...
> 
> --------
> When you need someone, you just turn around and I will be there <3
> 
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