Hi All,

I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image for
running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
could be used to have a stable Csound setup.  This could be useful
for:

* Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
* Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
* A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
into your own main operating system.

My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
VirtualBox for the VM technology.

Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
there to see what interest there might be.

Thanks,
steven

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Sounds brilliant!
There is a number of linux distros meant for live images and some of them quite flexible to rearrange (Koppix I think). But I have little experience myself.
There is platform SuseStudio that helps to retailor or put together your own customed image, i will read about it later.
Tarmo

Sounds like a great idea!

2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
> Hi All,
>
> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image for
> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
> could be used to have a stable Csound setup.  This could be useful
> for:
>
> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
> * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
> into your own main operating system.
>
> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>
> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
> there to see what interest there might be.
>
> Thanks,
> steven
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi,

there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/

I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software built from 
source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage etc) must be 
prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.

I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu users in the 
community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great, easy and fast 
platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary csound and friends 
rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the image. Also Suse is 
very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap, that is truly good.

For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?

tarmo


On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
> Sounds like a great idea!
> 
> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image for
> > running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
> > could be used to have a stable Csound setup.  This could be useful
> > for:
> > 
> > * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
> > could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
> > version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
> > * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
> > already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
> > * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
> > into your own main operating system.
> > 
> > My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
> > lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
> > VirtualBox for the VM technology.
> > 
> > Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
> > there to see what interest there might be.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > steven
> > 
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> > 
> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > 
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi,

I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices and adding
csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took me couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and ready for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try but the beginning is promising.

It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build (like Blue or others)
Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.

And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio members.

Give a try, if time permits!

Tarmo

It is also possible to there d

On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>
> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software built from
> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage etc) must be
> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>
> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu users in
> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great, easy and
> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary csound and
> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the image.
> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap, that is
> truly good.
>
> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>
> tarmo
>
> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
> > Sounds like a great idea!
> >
> > 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi <stevenyi@gmail.com>:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image for
> > > running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
> > > could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be useful
> > > for:
> > >
> > > * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
> > > could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
> > > version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
> > > * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
> > > already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
> > > * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
> > > into your own main operating system.
> > >
> > > My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
> > > lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
> > > VirtualBox for the VM technology.
> > >
> > > Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
> > > there to see what interest there might be.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > steven
> > >
> > > Csound mailing list
> > > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > > Send bugs reports to
> > >
> > > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > >
> > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?

https://www.docker.com/what-docker

~ Andy F.




On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad  wrote:
> Excellent idea!
>
> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices and
>> adding
>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took me
>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and ready for
>> download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try but the
>> beginning is promising.
>>
>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build (like Blue
>> or others)
>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>
>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio members.
>>
>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>
>> Tarmo
>>
>> It is also possible to there d
>>
>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>> > https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>> >
>> > I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software built
>> > from
>> > source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage etc) must
>> > be
>> > prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>> >
>> > I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu users
>> > in
>> > the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great, easy
>> > and
>> > fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary csound
>> > and
>> > friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the image.
>> > Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap, that is
>> > truly good.
>> >
>> > For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>> >
>> > tarmo
>> >
>> > On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>> > > Sounds like a great idea!
>> > >
>> > > 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>> > > > Hi All,
>> > > >
>> > > > I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image
>> > > > for
>> > > > running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
>> > > > could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be useful
>> > > > for:
>> > > >
>> > > > * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
>> > > > could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
>> > > > version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>> > > > * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
>> > > > already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>> > > > * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
>> > > > into your own main operating system.
>> > > >
>> > > > My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>> > > > lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>> > > > VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>> > > >
>> > > > Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
>> > > > there to see what interest there might be.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks,
>> > > > steven
>> > > >
>> > > > Csound mailing list
>> > > > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > > > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > > > Send bugs reports to
>> > > >
>> > > > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > > >
>> > > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mvh.
>
> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.

> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown  wrote:
> 
> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
> 
> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
> 
> ~ Andy F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad  wrote:
>> Excellent idea!
>> 
>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices and
>>> adding
>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took me
>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and ready for
>>> download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try but the
>>> beginning is promising.
>>> 
>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build (like Blue
>>> or others)
>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>> 
>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio members.
>>> 
>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>> 
>>> Tarmo
>>> 
>>> It is also possible to there d
>>> 
>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>> 
>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software built
>>>> from
>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage etc) must
>>>> be
>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>> 
>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu users
>>>> in
>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great, easy
>>>> and
>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary csound
>>>> and
>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the image.
>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap, that is
>>>> truly good.
>>>> 
>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>> 
>>>> tarmo
>>>> 
>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be useful
>>>>>> for:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> steven
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mvh.
>> 
>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>> 
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Docker - very interesting! 
This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the user has 
to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.

So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter and 
more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would be 
fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major 
versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and maybe 
something else) .

tarmo

On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
> > On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
> > 
> > https://www.docker.com/what-docker
> > 
> > ~ Andy F.
> > 
> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad  
wrote:
> >> Excellent idea!
> >> 
> >> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
> >> >> 
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> 
> >>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices and
> >>> adding
> >>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took me
> >>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and ready
> >>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try but
> >>> the beginning is promising.
> >>> 
> >>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build (like
> >>> Blue
> >>> or others)
> >>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
> >>> 
> >>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio members.
> >>> 
> >>> Give a try, if time permits!
> >>> 
> >>> Tarmo
> >>> 
> >>> It is also possible to there d
> >>> 
> >>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> 
> >>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
> >>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
> >>>> 
> >>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software built
> >>>> from
> >>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage etc)
> >>>> must
> >>>> be
> >>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu users
> >>>> in
> >>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great, easy
> >>>> and
> >>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary csound
> >>>> and
> >>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
> >>>> image.
> >>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap, that is
> >>>> truly good.
> >>>> 
> >>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
> >>>> 
> >>>> tarmo
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
> >>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
> >>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
> >>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be useful
> >>>>>> for:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
> >>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
> >>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
> >>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
> >>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
> >>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
> >>>>>> into your own main operating system.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
> >>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
> >>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
> >>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> steven
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>> 
> >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> >>> can be posted here
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Mvh.
> >> 
> >> Bernt Isak Wærstad
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
> >> can be posted here
> > 
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> > 
> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > 
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi All,

First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!

I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.

I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
be great.

steven



On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
 wrote:
> Docker - very interesting!
> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the user has
> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>
> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter and
> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would be
> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and maybe
> something else) .
>
> tarmo
>
> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>> > On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>> >
>> > https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>> >
>> > ~ Andy F.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad 
> wrote:
>> >> Excellent idea!
>> >>
>> >> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>> >> >>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> Hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices and
>> >>> adding
>> >>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took me
>> >>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and ready
>> >>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try but
>> >>> the beginning is promising.
>> >>>
>> >>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build (like
>> >>> Blue
>> >>> or others)
>> >>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>> >>>
>> >>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio members.
>> >>>
>> >>> Give a try, if time permits!
>> >>>
>> >>> Tarmo
>> >>>
>> >>> It is also possible to there d
>> >>>
>> >>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>> >>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software built
>> >>>> from
>> >>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage etc)
>> >>>> must
>> >>>> be
>> >>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu users
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great, easy
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary csound
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>> >>>> image.
>> >>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap, that is
>> >>>> truly good.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> tarmo
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>> >>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>> >>>>>> Hi All,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine image
>> >>>>>> for
>> >>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something that
>> >>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be useful
>> >>>>>> for:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image (user
>> >>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the work,
>> >>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>> >>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with everything
>> >>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>> >>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing anything
>> >>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>> >>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>> >>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting out
>> >>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>> >>>>>> steven
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Csound mailing list
>> >>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
>> >>> can be posted here
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mvh.
>> >>
>> >> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features
>> >> can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >
>> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
experience with them.

Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
containers to re-use and build on.

Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
It's like source-control for binaries.

~ Andy F.




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
> a tool.
>
> - Dave
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>
>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>
>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>> be great.
>>
>> steven
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>  wrote:
>> > Docker - very interesting!
>> > This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>> > user has
>> > to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>> >
>> > So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>> > and
>> > more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>> > be
>> > fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>> > versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>> > maybe
>> > something else) .
>> >
>> > tarmo
>> >
>> > On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>> >> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>> >> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>> >> > On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>> >> >
>> >> > ~ Andy F.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>> >> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >> >> Excellent idea!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> Hi,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>> >> >>> and
>> >> >>> adding
>> >> >>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>> >> >>> me
>> >> >>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>> >> >>> ready
>> >> >>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>> >> >>> but
>> >> >>> the beginning is promising.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>> >> >>> (like
>> >> >>> Blue
>> >> >>> or others)
>> >> >>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>> >> >>> members.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Give a try, if time permits!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Tarmo
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> It is also possible to there d
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>> >> >>>> Hi,
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>> >> >>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>> >> >>>> built
>> >> >>>> from
>> >> >>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>> >> >>>> etc)
>> >> >>>> must
>> >> >>>> be
>> >> >>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>> >> >>>> users
>> >> >>>> in
>> >> >>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>> >> >>>> easy
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>> >> >>>> csound
>> >> >>>> and
>> >> >>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>> >> >>>> image.
>> >> >>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>> >> >>>> that is
>> >> >>>> truly good.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> tarmo
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>> >> >>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>> >> >>>>>> Hi All,
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>> >> >>>>>> image
>> >> >>>>>> for
>> >> >>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>> >> >>>>>> that
>> >> >>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>> >> >>>>>> useful
>> >> >>>>>> for:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>> >> >>>>>> (user
>> >> >>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>> >> >>>>>> work,
>> >> >>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>> >> >>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>> >> >>>>>> everything
>> >> >>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>> >> >>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>> >> >>>>>> anything
>> >> >>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>> >> >>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>> >> >>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>> >> >>>>>> out
>> >> >>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Thanks,
>> >> >>>>>> steven
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Csound mailing list
>> >> >>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> >>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >> >>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >> >>> features
>> >> >>> can be posted here
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Mvh.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >> >> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >> >> features
>> >> >> can be posted here
>> >> >
>> >> > Csound mailing list
>> >> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >> > Send bugs reports to
>> >> >
>> >> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >> >
>> >> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list
>> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >> Send bugs reports to
>> >>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Docker does have a GUI -- it's called Kitematic. No Linux support there, but if you're using Linux you can probably handle a command line and vanilla Docker.

I've been using it for maintaining projects -- a git repo with a docker-compose file and start-up bash scripts. It's really easy to spin up and keep tight versioning; I use it across multiple machines daily.

-Tom Shani
http://tomshani.com

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:57 AM, andy fillebrown  wrote:
> 
> We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
> the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
> uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
> of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
> depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
> that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
> experience with them.
> 
> Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
> and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
> been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
> sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
> containers to re-use and build on.
> 
> Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
> It's like source-control for binaries.
> 
> ~ Andy F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
>> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
>> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
>> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
>> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
>> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
>> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
>> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
>> a tool.
>> 
>> - Dave
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>> 
>>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>> 
>>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>>> be great.
>>> 
>>> steven
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>>  wrote:
>>>> Docker - very interesting!
>>>> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>>>> user has
>>>> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>>>> 
>>>> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>>>> and
>>>> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>>>> be
>>>> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>>>> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>>>> maybe
>>>> something else) .
>>>> 
>>>> tarmo
>>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>>>>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>>>>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>>>>>> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Excellent idea!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> the beginning is promising.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>>> or others)
>>>>>>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Tarmo
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It is also possible to there d
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>>>>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>> truly good.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>>>>>>>>>>> (user
>>>>>>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mvh.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> 
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Thanks Dave, Andy, and Tom for the feedback on Docker.  For my own
concerns, I think having GUI support --- not for the management of
containers but for what is contained --- seems essential for this
initiative. I imagine the baseline target user here is not a Linux
expert, but one that is somewhat familiar with computers and could
navigate a Linux GUI desktop system. At least, that would serve the
educational aspect of this idea.

This isn't to say that exploring Docker + Csound wouldn't be very
fruitful on its own (I asked about this on the list a while back and
I'm remembering some cloud Csound project that used Docker), just that
I'm not sure it's the right technology for the goals I've mentioned.
I could see the Docker/Container path as one that could work well for
preserving non-GUI Csound projects, but maybe not so well for the
educational goals.

BTW: one thing I was thinking was that we may want to add easier
deployment of projects with complex configurations (i.e.
installations) as a possible goal as well.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom  wrote:
> Docker does have a GUI -- it's called Kitematic. No Linux support there, but if you're using Linux you can probably handle a command line and vanilla Docker.
>
> I've been using it for maintaining projects -- a git repo with a docker-compose file and start-up bash scripts. It's really easy to spin up and keep tight versioning; I use it across multiple machines daily.
>
> -Tom Shani
> http://tomshani.com
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:57 AM, andy fillebrown  wrote:
>>
>> We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
>> the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
>> uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
>> of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
>> depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
>> that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
>> experience with them.
>>
>> Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
>> and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
>> been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
>> sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
>> containers to re-use and build on.
>>
>> Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
>> It's like source-control for binaries.
>>
>> ~ Andy F.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
>>> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
>>> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
>>> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
>>> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
>>> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
>>> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
>>> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
>>> a tool.
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>>>
>>>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>>>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>>>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>>>
>>>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>>>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>>>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>>>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>>>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>>>> be great.
>>>>
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Docker - very interesting!
>>>>> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>>>>> user has
>>>>> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>>>>> and
>>>>> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>>>>> be
>>>>> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>>>>> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>>>>> maybe
>>>>> something else) .
>>>>>
>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>>>>>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>>>>>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>>>>>>> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Excellent idea!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> the beginning is promising.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>>>> or others)
>>>>>>>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>>>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tarmo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to there d
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>>>>>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>> truly good.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>>>>>>>>>>>> (user
>>>>>>>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>>>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>>>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mvh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Is there a way to expand the scope of this initiative to mobile
platforms or is this going to be exclusive to desktop systems?




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
> Thanks Dave, Andy, and Tom for the feedback on Docker.  For my own
> concerns, I think having GUI support --- not for the management of
> containers but for what is contained --- seems essential for this
> initiative. I imagine the baseline target user here is not a Linux
> expert, but one that is somewhat familiar with computers and could
> navigate a Linux GUI desktop system. At least, that would serve the
> educational aspect of this idea.
>
> This isn't to say that exploring Docker + Csound wouldn't be very
> fruitful on its own (I asked about this on the list a while back and
> I'm remembering some cloud Csound project that used Docker), just that
> I'm not sure it's the right technology for the goals I've mentioned.
> I could see the Docker/Container path as one that could work well for
> preserving non-GUI Csound projects, but maybe not so well for the
> educational goals.
>
> BTW: one thing I was thinking was that we may want to add easier
> deployment of projects with complex configurations (i.e.
> installations) as a possible goal as well.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom  wrote:
>> Docker does have a GUI -- it's called Kitematic. No Linux support there, but if you're using Linux you can probably handle a command line and vanilla Docker.
>>
>> I've been using it for maintaining projects -- a git repo with a docker-compose file and start-up bash scripts. It's really easy to spin up and keep tight versioning; I use it across multiple machines daily.
>>
>> -Tom Shani
>> http://tomshani.com
>>
>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:57 AM, andy fillebrown  wrote:
>>>
>>> We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
>>> the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
>>> uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
>>> of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
>>> depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
>>> that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
>>> experience with them.
>>>
>>> Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
>>> and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
>>> been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
>>> sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
>>> containers to re-use and build on.
>>>
>>> Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
>>> It's like source-control for binaries.
>>>
>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
>>>> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
>>>> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
>>>> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
>>>> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
>>>> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
>>>> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
>>>> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
>>>> a tool.
>>>>
>>>> - Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>>>>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>>>>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>>>>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>>>>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>>>>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>>>>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>>>>> be great.
>>>>>
>>>>> steven
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> Docker - very interesting!
>>>>>> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>>>>>> user has
>>>>>> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>>>>>> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>> something else) .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>>>>>>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>>>>>>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>>>>>>>> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Excellent idea!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> the beginning is promising.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>>>>> or others)
>>>>>>>>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>>>>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to there d
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>>>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>>>>>>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>>>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>>>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>>>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>>> truly good.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (user
>>>>>>>>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Mvh.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>> be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi Andy,

I'm not quite sure I understand how mobile is involved; are you
talking about VM's for Android, or something like that?

Thanks!
steven

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:12 PM, andy fillebrown
 wrote:
> Is there a way to expand the scope of this initiative to mobile
> platforms or is this going to be exclusive to desktop systems?
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>> Thanks Dave, Andy, and Tom for the feedback on Docker.  For my own
>> concerns, I think having GUI support --- not for the management of
>> containers but for what is contained --- seems essential for this
>> initiative. I imagine the baseline target user here is not a Linux
>> expert, but one that is somewhat familiar with computers and could
>> navigate a Linux GUI desktop system. At least, that would serve the
>> educational aspect of this idea.
>>
>> This isn't to say that exploring Docker + Csound wouldn't be very
>> fruitful on its own (I asked about this on the list a while back and
>> I'm remembering some cloud Csound project that used Docker), just that
>> I'm not sure it's the right technology for the goals I've mentioned.
>> I could see the Docker/Container path as one that could work well for
>> preserving non-GUI Csound projects, but maybe not so well for the
>> educational goals.
>>
>> BTW: one thing I was thinking was that we may want to add easier
>> deployment of projects with complex configurations (i.e.
>> installations) as a possible goal as well.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom  wrote:
>>> Docker does have a GUI -- it's called Kitematic. No Linux support there, but if you're using Linux you can probably handle a command line and vanilla Docker.
>>>
>>> I've been using it for maintaining projects -- a git repo with a docker-compose file and start-up bash scripts. It's really easy to spin up and keep tight versioning; I use it across multiple machines daily.
>>>
>>> -Tom Shani
>>> http://tomshani.com
>>>
>>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:57 AM, andy fillebrown  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
>>>> the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
>>>> uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
>>>> of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
>>>> depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
>>>> that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
>>>> experience with them.
>>>>
>>>> Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
>>>> and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
>>>> been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
>>>> sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
>>>> containers to re-use and build on.
>>>>
>>>> Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
>>>> It's like source-control for binaries.
>>>>
>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
>>>>> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
>>>>> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
>>>>> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
>>>>> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
>>>>> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
>>>>> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
>>>>> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
>>>>> a tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>>>>>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>>>>>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>>>>>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>>>>>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>>>>>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>>>>>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>>>>>> be great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Docker - very interesting!
>>>>>>> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>>>>>>> user has
>>>>>>> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>>>>>>> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>> something else) .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>>>>>>>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>>>>>>>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>>>>>>>>> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Excellent idea!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>>>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>>>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> the beginning is promising.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>>>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>>>>>> or others)
>>>>>>>>>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>>>>>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to there d
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>>>>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>>>>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>>>>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>>>> truly good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (user
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Mvh.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>> be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Yes. I guess I was just wondering out loud if devices running Android
and iOS are powerful enough to run VMs. I think it's a great idea,
mobile-capable or not, so feel free to ignore =)

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> I'm not quite sure I understand how mobile is involved; are you
> talking about VM's for Android, or something like that?
>
> Thanks!
> steven
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:12 PM, andy fillebrown
>  wrote:
>> Is there a way to expand the scope of this initiative to mobile
>> platforms or is this going to be exclusive to desktop systems?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>> Thanks Dave, Andy, and Tom for the feedback on Docker.  For my own
>>> concerns, I think having GUI support --- not for the management of
>>> containers but for what is contained --- seems essential for this
>>> initiative. I imagine the baseline target user here is not a Linux
>>> expert, but one that is somewhat familiar with computers and could
>>> navigate a Linux GUI desktop system. At least, that would serve the
>>> educational aspect of this idea.
>>>
>>> This isn't to say that exploring Docker + Csound wouldn't be very
>>> fruitful on its own (I asked about this on the list a while back and
>>> I'm remembering some cloud Csound project that used Docker), just that
>>> I'm not sure it's the right technology for the goals I've mentioned.
>>> I could see the Docker/Container path as one that could work well for
>>> preserving non-GUI Csound projects, but maybe not so well for the
>>> educational goals.
>>>
>>> BTW: one thing I was thinking was that we may want to add easier
>>> deployment of projects with complex configurations (i.e.
>>> installations) as a possible goal as well.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom  wrote:
>>>> Docker does have a GUI -- it's called Kitematic. No Linux support there, but if you're using Linux you can probably handle a command line and vanilla Docker.
>>>>
>>>> I've been using it for maintaining projects -- a git repo with a docker-compose file and start-up bash scripts. It's really easy to spin up and keep tight versioning; I use it across multiple machines daily.
>>>>
>>>> -Tom Shani
>>>> http://tomshani.com
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:57 AM, andy fillebrown  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
>>>>> the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
>>>>> uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
>>>>> of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
>>>>> depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
>>>>> that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
>>>>> experience with them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
>>>>> and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
>>>>> been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
>>>>> sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
>>>>> containers to re-use and build on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
>>>>> It's like source-control for binaries.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
>>>>>> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
>>>>>> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
>>>>>> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
>>>>>> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
>>>>>> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
>>>>>> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
>>>>>> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
>>>>>> a tool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>>>>>>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>>>>>>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>>>>>>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>>>>>>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>>>>>>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>>>>>>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>>>>>>> be great.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> Docker - very interesting!
>>>>>>>> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>>>>>>>> user has
>>>>>>>> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>>>>>>>> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>> something else) .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>>>>>>>>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>>>>>>>>>> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>>>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>>>>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>>>>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> the beginning is promising.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>>>>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>>>>>>> or others)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>>>>>>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to there d
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>>>>>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (user
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Mvh.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Oh, I see. I'm not aware of any VM technologies that actually run on
mobile devices.  I do think we should continue to push forward the web
and mobile Csound platforms for running and preserving works in
addition to the VM path.  There some overlap but I think the VM path
is potentially a bit more reliable (Web Audio is in flux, the future
of PNaCl is unknown with WASM in the works).

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 10:34 PM, andy fillebrown
 wrote:
> Yes. I guess I was just wondering out loud if devices running Android
> and iOS are powerful enough to run VMs. I think it's a great idea,
> mobile-capable or not, so feel free to ignore =)
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>> Hi Andy,
>>
>> I'm not quite sure I understand how mobile is involved; are you
>> talking about VM's for Android, or something like that?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 4:12 PM, andy fillebrown
>>  wrote:
>>> Is there a way to expand the scope of this initiative to mobile
>>> platforms or is this going to be exclusive to desktop systems?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>> Thanks Dave, Andy, and Tom for the feedback on Docker.  For my own
>>>> concerns, I think having GUI support --- not for the management of
>>>> containers but for what is contained --- seems essential for this
>>>> initiative. I imagine the baseline target user here is not a Linux
>>>> expert, but one that is somewhat familiar with computers and could
>>>> navigate a Linux GUI desktop system. At least, that would serve the
>>>> educational aspect of this idea.
>>>>
>>>> This isn't to say that exploring Docker + Csound wouldn't be very
>>>> fruitful on its own (I asked about this on the list a while back and
>>>> I'm remembering some cloud Csound project that used Docker), just that
>>>> I'm not sure it's the right technology for the goals I've mentioned.
>>>> I could see the Docker/Container path as one that could work well for
>>>> preserving non-GUI Csound projects, but maybe not so well for the
>>>> educational goals.
>>>>
>>>> BTW: one thing I was thinking was that we may want to add easier
>>>> deployment of projects with complex configurations (i.e.
>>>> installations) as a possible goal as well.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Tom  wrote:
>>>>> Docker does have a GUI -- it's called Kitematic. No Linux support there, but if you're using Linux you can probably handle a command line and vanilla Docker.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been using it for maintaining projects -- a git repo with a docker-compose file and start-up bash scripts. It's really easy to spin up and keep tight versioning; I use it across multiple machines daily.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Tom Shani
>>>>> http://tomshani.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:57 AM, andy fillebrown  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're investigating using Docker containers for web development and
>>>>>> the results so far have been very good. On Windows and OS-X, Docker
>>>>>> uses a lightweight headless Linux VM and AFAIK Docker is all CLI out
>>>>>> of the box, no GUI, so the VM solution may be easier if the GUI
>>>>>> depends on a windowing system. There may be pre-existing containers
>>>>>> that serve a windowing system from the container, but I don't have any
>>>>>> experience with them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Docker's longevity seems secure to me. It's well-funded, open-source,
>>>>>> and is essentially just a CLI for Linux's container system which has
>>>>>> been around for a few years already. It's adoption rate has
>>>>>> sky-rocketed in the past year, too, so there are lots of pre-existing
>>>>>> containers to re-use and build on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Docker also has a nice system for re-using and extending containers.
>>>>>> It's like source-control for binaries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Dave Seidel  wrote:
>>>>>>> FWIW -- I don't yet have any direct experience with Docker, but it is being
>>>>>>> starting to get used pretty heavily in my company (carbonblack.com) for
>>>>>>> testing and testing automation. Since we have a CentOS-based server
>>>>>>> application and also agents that run on Window, Mac, and Linux machines,
>>>>>>> clearly we have a need to work with multiple platforms (and multiple
>>>>>>> versions within each platform). Seems to be working well for for our QA
>>>>>>> people, and I haven't seen any concern over long-term viability of Docker as
>>>>>>> a tool.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First thanks for replies!  It seems like we have some interest!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I guess next is to come up with a game plan of listing what features
>>>>>>>> would be good and what use cases to support.  I suppose once we start
>>>>>>>> testing, what is missing will become apparent quickly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I also thought about Docker and I think that a VM might be better for
>>>>>>>> long term encapsulation of a work and simpler for semi-technical users
>>>>>>>> to use. I also don't know how Docker and other container technologies
>>>>>>>> handle GUIs. I don't have much experience with them though; if you've
>>>>>>>> got experience with containers and could comment on the above, that'd
>>>>>>>> be great.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:42 AM, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Docker - very interesting!
>>>>>>>>> This is probably lighter and maybe more flexible to prepare, but the
>>>>>>>>> user has
>>>>>>>>> to have Docker installed and if its development gets dropped, that's it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So the live images are probably more "safe" but Docker probably lighter
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> more convenient for the user. No experience, though. Theoretically would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> fantastic to have one live-image and one docker package from all major
>>>>>>>>> versions (together with CsoundQt, Cabbage, Blue, WinXCsound maybe and
>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>> something else) .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday 02 February 2016 11:34:44 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> That would get my vote. Users can use Csound on the OS of their choice
>>>>>>>>>> (Linux, Windows, OS/X…) using this approach.
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 Feb 2016, at 21:29, andy fillebrown 
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What about using Docker instead of full-blown VMs?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.docker.com/what-docker
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~ Andy F.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:04 AM, Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Excellent idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 February 2016 at 14:18, Tarmo Johannes
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I tired out susestudio and it is really neat. Doing some choices
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>>>>>> csound in their repos (5.18, alas) + jack+ Ome other things  took
>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes,  after about 15 minutes the image was built and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for download. I did not have good internet to dow load it and try
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the beginning is promising.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to add other files or tarballs to the build
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or others)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or upload own rpm packages without putting them to repos.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it is possible to share the builds with other susestudio
>>>>>>>>>>>>> members.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give a try, if time permits!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is also possible to there d
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 12:04:56 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a great article about preparing castomized live images:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linuxvoice.com/build-your-own-linux-distro/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure, which one of them (if any) enables to add software
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> source-mostly some kind of packages (Csoundm CsoundQrm Cabbage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prepared. Maybe I did nod read carefully.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Ubuntu could be a good source since there are many Ubuntu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the community, I guess. SuseStudio seems at the same time a great,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fast platform to tailor the distro (if to provide all necessary
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> csound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends rpm-s somewhere), also for community work and sharing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> image.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also Suse is very good base, especially the new openSuse Leap,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truly good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For initial thoughts. Please reflect, what is your experience?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tarmo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday 01 February 2016 09:06:40 you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like a great idea!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2016-02-01 1:03 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was mulling over just now about creating a virtual machine
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running Csound. The idea is that the image would be something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could be used to have a stable Csound setup. This could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Preserving a Csound work by ensuring it runs with an image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (user
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could ensure the project works, then save a new image with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of csound, all the way down to the OS all preserved)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Having an exact same setup for Csound for teaching with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already installed (e.g., CsoundQT, Blue, Cabbage, etc.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * A simple way to test out new features without installing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into your own main operating system.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My guess would be to use some version of Linux that could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lightweight and easily customized (e.g., Arch Linux) and to use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VirtualBox for the VM technology.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways, this was a random thought that I thought worth putting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there to see what interest there might be.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mvh.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bernt Isak Wærstad
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>>>>> features
>>>>>>>>>>>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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