Hi everyone,

following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
Csound. Committed to git and documented. 
Control-rate parameters only at the moment.

 asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
 asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
 asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
 asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres

best regards
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Thanks Victor!  This is awesome news, I can't wait to try them out!

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>
>  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>
> best regards
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I've just build csound from git for the first time, gonna give these
opcodes a whirl today, thanks guys!

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Kevin Welsh  wrote:
> Thanks Victor!  This is awesome news, I can't wait to try them out!
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>
>>  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>
>> best regards
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> Maynooth University,
>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Needing to update to Csound 6, I ran "sudo apt-get build-dep csound" and got this error:

E: Build-Depends dependency for csound cannot be satisfied because candidate version of package cdbs can't satisfy version requirements

How should I resolve this?

brian

On Mon, 11 Jan 2016 09:19:07 +0000, Victor Lazzarini wrote:

Hi everyone,

following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
Csound. Committed to git and documented. 
Control-rate parameters only at the moment.

 asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
 asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
 asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
 asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres

best regards
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi, sound very cool, great to have them!

(I could not make very much difference between mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 but maybe it depends on the input. Did not read the documentation yet - where to find it in the git repo?)

Thanks, Rory, Victor!

tarmo

On Monday 11 January 2016 09:19:07 you wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to

> Csound. Committed to git and documented.

> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.

>

> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres

> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres

> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres

> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres

>

> best regards

> ========================

> Dr Victor Lazzarini

> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,

> Maynooth University,

> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland

> Tel: 00 353 7086936

> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952

>

> Csound mailing list

> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie

> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND

> Send bugs reports to

> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues

> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

It’s in the manual repo, in xml.
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:51, Tarmo Johannes  wrote:
> 
> Hi, sound very cool, great to have them!
>  
> (I could not make very much difference between mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 but maybe it depends on the input. Did not read the documentation yet -  where to find it in the git repo?)
>  
> Thanks, Rory, Victor!
>  
> tarmo
>  
> On Monday 11 January 2016 09:19:07 you wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
> > Csound. Committed to git and documented.
> > Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
> > 
> >  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
> >  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
> >  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
> >  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
> > 
> > best regards
> > ========================
> > Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > Maynooth University,
> > Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> > 
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>  
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports tohttps://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
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Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

and now his high-pass completes the set:

asig mvchpf ain,kfr

Regards
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:55, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
> 
> It’s in the manual repo, in xml.
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 
> 
>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:51, Tarmo Johannes  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, sound very cool, great to have them!
>> 
>> (I could not make very much difference between mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 but maybe it depends on the input. Did not read the documentation yet -  where to find it in the git repo?)
>> 
>> Thanks, Rory, Victor!
>> 
>> tarmo
>> 
>> On Monday 11 January 2016 09:19:07 you wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>> 
>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>> 
>>> best regards
>>> ========================
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>> Maynooth University,
>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports tohttps://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Ah sweet! I was just wondering if there might be a highpass and/or
bandpass version. There aren't enough dedicated highpass and bandpass
opcodes

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 12:38 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> and now his high-pass completes the set:
>
> asig mvchpf ain,kfr
>
> Regards
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:55, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
>>
>> It’s in the manual repo, in xml.
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> Maynooth University,
>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>
>>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:51, Tarmo Johannes  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, sound very cool, great to have them!
>>>
>>> (I could not make very much difference between mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 but maybe it depends on the input. Did not read the documentation yet -  where to find it in the git repo?)
>>>
>>> Thanks, Rory, Victor!
>>>
>>> tarmo
>>>
>>> On Monday 11 January 2016 09:19:07 you wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>
>>>> best regards
>>>> ========================
>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports tohttps://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

About Fons' work, his Aeolus software organ is a really wonderful
instrument that I would love to see ported to Csound. I have used it
from Csound with Jack (and indeed created the jacko opcodes just so I
could do that), but when I looked at the Aeolus code with an eye
towards porting it to a Csound opcode, Aeolus (a) used uncommon
libraries for threading etc. and (b) had its user interface code
thoroughly mixed up with its synthesis code.

Cheers to anyone who feels like taking this on.

Regards,
Mike

I'd

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> and now his high-pass completes the set:
>
> asig mvchpf ain,kfr
>
> Regards
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:55, Victor Lazzarini  wrote:
>>
>> It’s in the manual repo, in xml.
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> Maynooth University,
>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>
>>> On 11 Jan 2016, at 11:51, Tarmo Johannes  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, sound very cool, great to have them!
>>>
>>> (I could not make very much difference between mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 but maybe it depends on the input. Did not read the documentation yet -  where to find it in the git repo?)
>>>
>>> Thanks, Rory, Victor!
>>>
>>> tarmo
>>>
>>> On Monday 11 January 2016 09:19:07 you wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>
>>>> best regards
>>>> ========================
>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>>
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports tohttps://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Hi Victor,

Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.

I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.

Thanks!
steven



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>
>  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>
> best regards
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is with moogladder)?

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi <stevenyi@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Victor,

Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.

I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.

Thanks!
steven



On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
<Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters to
> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>
>  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>
> best regards
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
rush on a-rate params!

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> yes, I just need to get round to it.
>
> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
> and 3 is his best attempt.
>
> Regards
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi  wrote:
>
> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
> with moogladder)?
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Victor,
>>
>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
>>
>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
>> > to
>> > Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>> > Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>> >
>> >  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >
>> > best regards
>> > ========================
>> > Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> > Maynooth University,
>> > Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> > Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> > Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Fons' implementation had a gain for the resonance as well as an independent resonance control. I thought it was a nice feature, albeit a little left of field. I guess same can be achieved with the Csound version if one were to use two instances of the opcode.

Fons' implementation had a gain for the resonance as well as an independent resonance control. I thought it was a nice feature, albeit a little left of field. I guess same can be achieved with the Csound version if one were to use two instances of the opcode.

On 12 Jan 2016 17:25, "Steven Yi" <stevenyi@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
rush on a-rate params!

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
<Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
> yes, I just need to get round to it.
>
> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
> and 3 is his best attempt.
>
> Regards
>
> Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
> Maynooth University
> Ireland
>
> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi <stevenyi@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
> with moogladder)?
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi <stevenyi@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Victor,
>>
>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
>>
>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> steven
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>> <Victor.Lazzarini@nuim.ie> wrote:
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
>> > to
>> > Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>> > Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>> >
>> >  asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >  asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >  asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >  asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>> >
>> > best regards
>> > ========================
>> > Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> > Maynooth University,
>> > Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> > Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> > Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I have to admit that I'm a little confused about it. I might try it out when I get the chance. None of my previous assumptions have come from listening to the thing!

All the five filters now have optional a-rate parameters.
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 12 Jan 2016, at 17:12, Steven Yi  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
> rush on a-rate params!
> 
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
>> yes, I just need to get round to it.
>> 
>> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
>> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
>> and 3 is his best attempt.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>> Maynooth University
>> Ireland
>> 
>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi  wrote:
>> 
>> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
>> with moogladder)?
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Victor,
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
>>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
>>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
>>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
>>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
>>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
>>> 
>>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
>>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> steven
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>  wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
>>>> to
>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>>> 
>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>> 
>>>> best regards
>>>> ========================
>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
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You guys are awesome, I agree with Jan Jacob, this whole thing was
well above and beyond the call of duty! The filters sound great too :D

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> All the five filters now have optional a-rate parameters.
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 17:12, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
>> rush on a-rate params!
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>> yes, I just need to get round to it.
>>>
>>> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
>>> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
>>> and 3 is his best attempt.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>>
>>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>
>>> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
>>> with moogladder)?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Victor,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
>>>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
>>>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
>>>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
>>>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
>>>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
>>>>
>>>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
>>>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
>>>>> to
>>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>>
>>>>> best regards
>>>>> ========================
>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Fantastic, thanks Victor!

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> All the five filters now have optional a-rate parameters.
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 17:12, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
>> rush on a-rate params!
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>>> yes, I just need to get round to it.
>>>
>>> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
>>> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
>>> and 3 is his best attempt.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>>
>>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>
>>> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
>>> with moogladder)?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Victor,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
>>>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
>>>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
>>>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
>>>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
>>>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
>>>>
>>>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
>>>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
>>>>> to
>>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
>>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
>>>>>
>>>>> best regards
>>>>> ========================
>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
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Send bugs reports to
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There is no 0dbfs=1 limitation anymore in the latest sources, so that is gone. The 0-1 is in the original design, so I will not change it. There
are other filters where you can push it beyond 1 (moogladder for instance), but since I did not write this code, I will keep the port faithful to the original.
If you have a small example that demonstrates your problem, we can look at it to see if it is a bug and then attempt to fix it.

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 16 Jan 2016, at 03:48, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> I tested these filters. There's defenitely a bug with mvclpf1 opcode, I have the audio producing instrument to be played for indefinite time and another instrument as a sqeuencer for it. The sound through mvclpf1 will cut and klick randomly and slowly fade away with some tambre differences. I still had the resonance at 0, probably it's something with the feedback since I don't reinitialize, just change global freq values at k-rate. Which brings me to the other design tradeoff, which is to limit the resonance to 0 and 1. Why not allow the exploding feedback? I've had success blasting the resonance and still have control over it with other lp-filters, so for me this "idiot-proof" limitation should be reconsidered if possible (just send warning?). As well as was pointed out before, those not using 0dbfs=1 will have to scale the amps, it's no problem to do that, but just bit annoying, I can of course just get used to using ampdb instead of ampdbfs and include 0dbfs=1.
> 
> 
> I will post an example tomorrow and make issue on github if nobody has experienced this with mvclpf1.
> 
> 2016-01-14 14:30 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
> Fantastic, thanks Victor!
> 
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
> > All the five filters now have optional a-rate parameters.
> > ========================
> > Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > Maynooth University,
> > Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> >
> >> On 12 Jan 2016, at 17:12, Steven Yi  wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
> >> rush on a-rate params!
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
> >>  wrote:
> >>> yes, I just need to get round to it.
> >>>
> >>> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
> >>> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
> >>> and 3 is his best attempt.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Victor Lazzarini
> >>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
> >>> Maynooth University
> >>> Ireland
> >>>
> >>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
> >>> with moogladder)?
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Victor,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
> >>>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
> >>>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
> >>>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
> >>>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
> >>>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
> >>>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks!
> >>>> steven
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
> >>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
> >>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
> >>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
> >>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
> >>>>>
> >>>>> best regards
> >>>>> ========================
> >>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> >>>>> Maynooth University,
> >>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> >>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> >>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>
> >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> >>> be posted here
> >>>
> >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> >>> be posted here
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
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Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

So it is not a bug then with the new code that accepts a signal that is within any 0dfbs range? I changed it last Thursday in
response to Ffanci’s request.


========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 16 Jan 2016, at 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal outside the range 0->1, like in this example https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types seem to handle this.
> 
> Yes I use moogladder and lpf18 extensively for high resonance values, and it's kind of a sad limitation to not allow higher values on these now ones, I guess respecting the author is important(or I could just prankster it myself and change the c code). I see such a sweet characteristic difference in low pass filters in this high resonance range, I would guess these new filters would add to the repertoire of resonation timbres.
> 
> Speaking of filters tbvcf seems to be very deprecated, at least the manual example explodes, but who's using it anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-01-16 10:29 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> There is no 0dbfs=1 limitation anymore in the latest sources, so that is gone. The 0-1 is in the original design, so I will not change it. There
> are other filters where you can push it beyond 1 (moogladder for instance), but since I did not write this code, I will keep the port faithful to the original.
> If you have a small example that demonstrates your problem, we can look at it to see if it is a bug and then attempt to fix it.
> 
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> 
> > On 16 Jan 2016, at 03:48, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> >
> > I tested these filters. There's defenitely a bug with mvclpf1 opcode, I have the audio producing instrument to be played for indefinite time and another instrument as a sqeuencer for it. The sound through mvclpf1 will cut and klick randomly and slowly fade away with some tambre differences. I still had the resonance at 0, probably it's something with the feedback since I don't reinitialize, just change global freq values at k-rate. Which brings me to the other design tradeoff, which is to limit the resonance to 0 and 1. Why not allow the exploding feedback? I've had success blasting the resonance and still have control over it with other lp-filters, so for me this "idiot-proof" limitation should be reconsidered if possible (just send warning?). As well as was pointed out before, those not using 0dbfs=1 will have to scale the amps, it's no problem to do that, but just bit annoying, I can of course just get used to using ampdb instead of ampdbfs and include 0dbfs=1.
> >
> >
> > I will post an example tomorrow and make issue on github if nobody has experienced this with mvclpf1.
> >
> > 2016-01-14 14:30 GMT+01:00 Steven Yi :
> > Fantastic, thanks Victor!
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Victor Lazzarini
> >  wrote:
> > > All the five filters now have optional a-rate parameters.
> > > ========================
> > > Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > > Maynooth University,
> > > Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > > Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > > Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> > >
> > >> On 12 Jan 2016, at 17:12, Steven Yi  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the useful information about the 3 implementations and no
> > >> rush on a-rate params!
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Victor Lazzarini
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>> yes, I just need to get round to it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Fons notes that 1 is really not there at all as a
> > >>> moog emulation, but is cheap. 2 gets closer
> > >>> and 3 is his best attempt.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards
> > >>>
> > >>> Victor Lazzarini
> > >>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
> > >>> Maynooth University
> > >>> Ireland
> > >>>
> > >>> On 12 Jan 2016, at 02:20, Steven Yi  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Victor: any chance to get versions with a-rate cutoff and resonance (as is
> > >>> with moogladder)?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016, 6:40 PM Steven Yi  wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Victor,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks very much for these.  I experimented with them just and I
> > >>>> thought mvclpf3 sounded nice.  It seems a good bit darker than using
> > >>>> moogladder, though I haven't figured out if ranges should be scaled
> > >>>> for resonance, if the cutoffs are different, or just that they are two
> > >>>> different implementations.  The mvclpf1 and mvclpf2 seemed to miss a
> > >>>> little bit of the moog quality to my ear though.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I've attached a (somewhat corny) example.  There's a commented out
> > >>>> moogladder that one can switch with the mvclpf3 line to compare.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks!
> > >>>> steven
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Victor Lazzarini
> > >>>>  wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi everyone,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> following Rory’s initial port, I’ve added Fons’ four moog vc lp filters
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> Csound. Committed to git and documented.
> > >>>>> Control-rate parameters only at the moment.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> asig mvclpf1 ain,kfreq,kres
> > >>>>> asig mvclpf2 ain,kfreq,kres
> > >>>>> asig mvclpf3 ain,kfreq,kres
> > >>>>> asig,asig1,asig2,asig3 mvclpf4 ain,kfreq,kres
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> best regards
> > >>>>> ========================
> > >>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > >>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > >>>>> Maynooth University,
> > >>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > >>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > >>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Csound mailing list
> > >>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > >>>>> Send bugs reports to
> > >>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > >>>
> > >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> > >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> > >>> be posted here
> > >>>
> > >>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> > >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> > >>> be posted here
> > >>
> > >> Csound mailing list
> > >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > >> Send bugs reports to
> > >>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > >
> > > Csound mailing list
> > > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > > Send bugs reports to
> > >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
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> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any 
samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the 
+-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The 
majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined 
and designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will 
very likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a 
standard "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). 
Non-recursive ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will 
tolerate over-range samples much more easily. Still something to avoid 
where possible, I suggest.

One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that 
the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also 
within that range.

In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole 
internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but 
Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio 
i/o) relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a 
floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.

With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason to 
push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at 
-10dB (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, 
is, I would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised 
levels conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map 
them to your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the 
output level is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the 
internal limit - a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and 
professioanl digital mixers) set a working maximum at -20dB - this then 
leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving a similar feel to the good old days of 
recording to tape. The holy grail of course is "unity gain" throughout 
the processing path, but not all dsp opcodes can guarantee that, so 
Csounders will always need to exercise due vigilance, and make judicious 
use of "balance" if necessary.

Richard Dobson




On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter
> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types seem
> to handle this.
>

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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.

> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson  wrote:
> 
> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I suggest.
> 
> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also within that range.
> 
> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o) relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
> 
> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit - a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers) set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
> 
> Richard Dobson
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter
>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types seem
>> to handle this.
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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@Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
rate at the very least.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
 wrote:
> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
>
>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson  wrote:
>>
>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I suggest.
>>
>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also within that range.
>>
>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o) relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
>>
>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit - a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers) set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
>>
>> Richard Dobson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter
>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types seem
>>> to handle this.
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

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Send bugs reports to
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So far, my only "bypass" of the bug is sticking with a sample rate of
44100, lol. I've just looked at my resonances, and I have the
resonance at 0.8 in one of my instruments, and it wobbles between 0.3
and 1.1 in another. I have noticed more recently that I do still
witness the occasional prang out, so I'm wondering now if this is
could be the one that wobbles the resonance. Having just looked back
through my tbvcf instruments, I've noticed that I am wobbling the
assymetry parameter on one of them, with values between 0 and 5. I'm
not quite sure why now, I don't even remember what the assymetry does,
but that might not be helping that instrument!

I was talking to john about the sample rate issue recently, there is a
snippet of the code for tbvcf that multiples or divides by 44100,
which I guess must lock it to only work with 44100 sr. I was going to
have a look at the code and see if I could be clever and fix it
myself, but I haven't got round to it yet. I probably should just file
a ticket and let the pros handle it anyway.

What are the specific issues you've encountered with tbvcf, like what
specific resonance levels / sr / distortion etc?

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 3:53 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> Thanks for this input Richard.
>
> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still the
> example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but this is
> only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old 16 bit
> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with 32768 in
> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
>
> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket to
> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or tell
> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
>
> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess :
>>
>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
>> rate at the very least.
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>  wrote:
>> > I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
>> > compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
>> >
>> >> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
>> >> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the
>> >> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The
>> >> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and
>> >> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very
>> >> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard
>> >> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive
>> >> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range
>> >> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I
>> >> suggest.
>> >>
>> >> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that
>> >> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also
>> >> within that range.
>> >>
>> >> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
>> >> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but
>> >> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o)
>> >> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
>> >> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
>> >>
>> >> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason to
>> >> push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB
>> >> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I
>> >> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels
>> >> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to
>> >> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level
>> >> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit -
>> >> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers)
>> >> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving
>> >> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of
>> >> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp
>> >> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due
>> >> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
>> >>
>> >> Richard Dobson
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>> >>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>> >>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>> >>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
>> >>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter
>> >>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types
>> >>> seem
>> >>> to handle this.
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list
>> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >> Send bugs reports to
>> >>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

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I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a lot of samples out of range.
It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If you reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.

maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
 number of samples out of range:   479798   479798

the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with the filter. The line:

 outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3

will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are multiplying the output by
a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by 0.3.

Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with any 0dbfs value.

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this input Richard.
> 
> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but this is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old 16 bit range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with 32768 in the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
> 
> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket to github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or tell me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
> 
> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess :
> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
> rate at the very least.
> 
> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>  wrote:
> > I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
> >
> >> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson  wrote:
> >>
> >> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I suggest.
> >>
> >> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also within that range.
> >>
> >> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o) relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
> >>
> >> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit - a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers) set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
> >>
> >> Richard Dobson
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
> >>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
> >>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
> >>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
> >>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter
> >>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types seem
> >>> to handle this.
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list
> >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >> Send bugs reports to
> >>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs =
> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get used to
> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my csound
> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass of
> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for mvclpf1 so
> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I can
> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number 1,
> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the mailing
> list.
>
> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never got
> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I would
> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did also
> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and see
> which settings can work.
>
> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
>>
>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a lot
>> of samples out of range.
>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If you
>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
>>
>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
>>  number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
>>
>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with the
>> filter. The line:
>>
>>  outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
>>
>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are multiplying
>> the output by
>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by 0.3.
>>
>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with any
>> 0dbfs value.
>>
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> Maynooth University,
>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>
>> > On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks for this input Richard.
>> >
>> > And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
>> > the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but this
>> > is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old 16 bit
>> > range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with 32768 in
>> > the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
>> >
>> > Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket to
>> > github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or tell
>> > me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
>> >
>> > 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
>> > :
>> > @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
>> > definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
>> > rate at the very least.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>> >  wrote:
>> > > I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
>> > > compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
>> > >
>> > >> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
>> > >>  wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
>> > >> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the
>> > >> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The
>> > >> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and
>> > >> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very
>> > >> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard
>> > >> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive
>> > >> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range
>> > >> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I
>> > >> suggest.
>> > >>
>> > >> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that
>> > >> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also
>> > >> within that range.
>> > >>
>> > >> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
>> > >> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but
>> > >> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o)
>> > >> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
>> > >> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
>> > >>
>> > >> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason
>> > >> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB
>> > >> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I
>> > >> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels
>> > >> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to
>> > >> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level
>> > >> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit -
>> > >> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers)
>> > >> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving
>> > >> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of
>> > >> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp
>> > >> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due
>> > >> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
>> > >>
>> > >> Richard Dobson
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>> > >>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>> > >>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>> > >>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
>> > >>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
>> > >>> filter
>> > >>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types
>> > >>> seem
>> > >>> to handle this.
>> > >>
>> > >> Csound mailing list
>> > >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > >> Send bugs reports to
>> > >>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> > >
>> > > Csound mailing list
>> > > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > > Send bugs reports to
>> > >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> > be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

yes, I did and I explained that it is nothing to do with the filters, just read my email again. Multiplying a signal by 1*0.3 is different from multiplying it by 32768*0.3.
Replace mvclpf1 for moogladder and you will get ta similarly distorted result.

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:34, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs = 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get used to doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my csound instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass of water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for mvclpf1 so that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I can use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number 1, for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the mailing list.
> 
> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never got it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I would assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did also use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and see which settings can work.
> 
> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a lot of samples out of range.
> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If you reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
> 
> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
>  number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
> 
> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with the filter. The line:
> 
>  outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
> 
> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are multiplying the output by
> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by 0.3.
> 
> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with any 0dbfs value.
> 
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> 
> > On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for this input Richard.
> >
> > And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but this is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old 16 bit range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with 32768 in the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
> >
> > Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket to github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or tell me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
> >
> > 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess :
> > @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
> > definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
> > rate at the very least.
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
> >  wrote:
> > > I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
> > >
> > >> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I suggest.
> > >>
> > >> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also within that range.
> > >>
> > >> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o) relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
> > >>
> > >> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit - a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers) set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
> > >>
> > >> Richard Dobson
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
> > >>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
> > >>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
> > >>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
> > >>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the filter
> > >>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types seem
> > >>> to handle this.
> > >>
> > >> Csound mailing list
> > >> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > >> Send bugs reports to
> > >>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> > >
> > > Csound mailing list
> > > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > > Send bugs reports to
> > >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

There is nothing broken with mvclpf1, nothing to fix there.
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:50, Peter Burgess  wrote:
> 
> I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
> off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket
> 
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
>> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs =
>> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get used to
>> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my csound
>> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass of
>> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for mvclpf1 so
>> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I can
>> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number 1,
>> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the mailing
>> list.
>> 
>> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
>> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never got
>> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I would
>> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did also
>> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and see
>> which settings can work.
>> 
>> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
>>> 
>>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a lot
>>> of samples out of range.
>>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If you
>>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
>>> 
>>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
>>> number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
>>> 
>>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with the
>>> filter. The line:
>>> 
>>> outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
>>> 
>>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are multiplying
>>> the output by
>>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by 0.3.
>>> 
>>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with any
>>> 0dbfs value.
>>> 
>>> ========================
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>> Maynooth University,
>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>> 
>>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for this input Richard.
>>>> 
>>>> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
>>>> the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but this
>>>> is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old 16 bit
>>>> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with 32768 in
>>>> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
>>>> 
>>>> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket to
>>>> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or tell
>>>> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
>>>> 
>>>> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
>>>> :
>>>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
>>>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
>>>> rate at the very least.
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
>>>>> compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
>>>>>> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the
>>>>>> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The
>>>>>> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and
>>>>>> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very
>>>>>> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard
>>>>>> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive
>>>>>> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range
>>>>>> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I
>>>>>> suggest.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that
>>>>>> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also
>>>>>> within that range.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
>>>>>> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but
>>>>>> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o)
>>>>>> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
>>>>>> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason
>>>>>> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB
>>>>>> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I
>>>>>> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels
>>>>>> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to
>>>>>> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level
>>>>>> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit -
>>>>>> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers)
>>>>>> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving
>>>>>> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of
>>>>>> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp
>>>>>> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due
>>>>>> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>>>>>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>>>>>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>>>>>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
>>>>>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
>>>>>>> filter
>>>>>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types
>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>> to handle this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> 
>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>> be posted here
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Except that they will both work, and will be identical. Try it.
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:04, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> Yes I agree nothing broken;
> 
> This works fine:
> instr 2
> asig poscil 0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> asig mvclpf2 asig	, 150, 0.1
> outs asig*0dbfs, asig*0dbfs
> endin
> 
> this wont (so I wont do this :) )
> instr 2
> asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> asig mvclpf2 asig	, 150, 0.1
> outs asig, asig
> endin
> 
> eod (d = discussion)
> 
> 2016-01-17 12:57 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> There is nothing broken with mvclpf1, nothing to fix there.
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> 
> > On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:50, Peter Burgess  wrote:
> >
> > I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
> > off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> >> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs =
> >> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get used to
> >> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my csound
> >> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass of
> >> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for mvclpf1 so
> >> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I can
> >> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number 1,
> >> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the mailing
> >> list.
> >>
> >> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
> >> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never got
> >> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I would
> >> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did also
> >> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and see
> >> which settings can work.
> >>
> >> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> >>>
> >>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a lot
> >>> of samples out of range.
> >>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If you
> >>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
> >>>
> >>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
> >>> number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
> >>>
> >>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with the
> >>> filter. The line:
> >>>
> >>> outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
> >>>
> >>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are multiplying
> >>> the output by
> >>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by 0.3.
> >>>
> >>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with any
> >>> 0dbfs value.
> >>>
> >>> ========================
> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> >>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> >>> Maynooth University,
> >>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> >>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> >>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> >>>
> >>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for this input Richard.
> >>>>
> >>>> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
> >>>> the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but this
> >>>> is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old 16 bit
> >>>> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with 32768 in
> >>>> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket to
> >>>> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or tell
> >>>> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
> >>>>
> >>>> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
> >>>> :
> >>>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
> >>>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
> >>>> rate at the very least.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>  wrote:
> >>>>> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
> >>>>> compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
> >>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
> >>>>>> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in the
> >>>>>> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are over-range. The
> >>>>>> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically defined and
> >>>>>> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will very
> >>>>>> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a standard
> >>>>>> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input). Non-recursive
> >>>>>> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate over-range
> >>>>>> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible, I
> >>>>>> suggest.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is that
> >>>>>> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values also
> >>>>>> within that range.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
> >>>>>> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range, but
> >>>>>> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles, audio i/o)
> >>>>>> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
> >>>>>> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no reason
> >>>>>> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even at -10dB
> >>>>>> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that, is, I
> >>>>>> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised levels
> >>>>>> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map them to
> >>>>>> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the output level
> >>>>>> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the internal limit -
> >>>>>> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital mixers)
> >>>>>> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of "headroom" giving
> >>>>>> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy grail of
> >>>>>> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all dsp
> >>>>>> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to exercise due
> >>>>>> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Richard Dobson
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
> >>>>>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
> >>>>>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
> >>>>>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on Jan
> >>>>>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
> >>>>>>> filter
> >>>>>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter types
> >>>>>>> seem
> >>>>>>> to handle this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>
> >>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>
> >>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> >>>> be posted here
> >>>
> >>> Csound mailing list
> >>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> >> be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Why won't the second example work? that should only output acceptable
values within the 0dbfs range aswell

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> Yes I agree nothing broken;
>
> This works fine:
>
> instr 2
>
> asig poscil 0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
>
> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
>
> outs asig*0dbfs, asig*0dbfs
>
> endin
>
>
> this wont (so I wont do this :) )
>
> instr 2
>
> asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
>
> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
>
> outs asig, asig
>
> endin
>
>
> eod (d = discussion)
>
> 2016-01-17 12:57 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
>>
>> There is nothing broken with mvclpf1, nothing to fix there.
>> ========================
>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> Maynooth University,
>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>
>> > On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:50, Peter Burgess 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
>> > off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
>> > wrote:
>> >> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs
>> >> =
>> >> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get
>> >> used to
>> >> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my
>> >> csound
>> >> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass
>> >> of
>> >> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for
>> >> mvclpf1 so
>> >> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I
>> >> can
>> >> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number
>> >> 1,
>> >> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the
>> >> mailing
>> >> list.
>> >>
>> >> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
>> >> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never
>> >> got
>> >> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I
>> >> would
>> >> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did
>> >> also
>> >> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and
>> >> see
>> >> which settings can work.
>> >>
>> >> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
>> >>>
>> >>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a
>> >>> lot
>> >>> of samples out of range.
>> >>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If
>> >>> you
>> >>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
>> >>>
>> >>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
>> >>> number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
>> >>>
>> >>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with
>> >>> the
>> >>> filter. The line:
>> >>>
>> >>> outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
>> >>>
>> >>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are
>> >>> multiplying
>> >>> the output by
>> >>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by
>> >>> 0.3.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with
>> >>> any
>> >>> 0dbfs value.
>> >>>
>> >>> ========================
>> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>> >>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>> >>> Maynooth University,
>> >>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>> >>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>> >>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks for this input Richard.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
>> >>>> the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but
>> >>>> this
>> >>>> is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old
>> >>>> 16 bit
>> >>>> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with
>> >>>> 32768 in
>> >>>> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or
>> >>>> tell
>> >>>> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
>> >>>> :
>> >>>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
>> >>>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
>> >>>> rate at the very least.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>> >>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
>> >>>>> compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
>> >>>>>>  wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
>> >>>>>> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are
>> >>>>>> over-range. The
>> >>>>>> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically
>> >>>>>> defined and
>> >>>>>> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will
>> >>>>>> very
>> >>>>>> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a
>> >>>>>> standard
>> >>>>>> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input).
>> >>>>>> Non-recursive
>> >>>>>> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate
>> >>>>>> over-range
>> >>>>>> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible,
>> >>>>>> I
>> >>>>>> suggest.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is
>> >>>>>> that
>> >>>>>> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values
>> >>>>>> also
>> >>>>>> within that range.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
>> >>>>>> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range,
>> >>>>>> but
>> >>>>>> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles,
>> >>>>>> audio i/o)
>> >>>>>> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
>> >>>>>> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no
>> >>>>>> reason
>> >>>>>> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even
>> >>>>>> at -10dB
>> >>>>>> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that,
>> >>>>>> is, I
>> >>>>>> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised
>> >>>>>> levels
>> >>>>>> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map
>> >>>>>> them to
>> >>>>>> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the
>> >>>>>> output level
>> >>>>>> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the
>> >>>>>> internal limit -
>> >>>>>> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital
>> >>>>>> mixers)
>> >>>>>> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of
>> >>>>>> "headroom" giving
>> >>>>>> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy
>> >>>>>> grail of
>> >>>>>> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all
>> >>>>>> dsp
>> >>>>>> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to
>> >>>>>> exercise due
>> >>>>>> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Richard Dobson
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>> >>>>>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>> >>>>>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on
>> >>>>>>> Jan
>> >>>>>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
>> >>>>>>> filter
>> >>>>>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter
>> >>>>>>> types
>> >>>>>>> seem
>> >>>>>>> to handle this.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Csound mailing list
>> >>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>> >>>>>>      https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Csound mailing list
>> >>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>>> Send bugs reports to
>> >>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Csound mailing list
>> >>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>>> Send bugs reports to
>> >>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >>>> features can
>> >>>> be posted here
>> >>>
>> >>> Csound mailing list
>> >>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> >>> Send bugs reports to
>> >>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> >> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>> >> features can
>> >> be posted here
>> >
>> > Csound mailing list
>> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> > Send bugs reports to
>> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>> Csound mailing list
>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Both work.
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:08, Peter Burgess  wrote:
> 
> Why won't the second example work? that should only output acceptable
> values within the 0dbfs range aswell
> 
> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
>> Yes I agree nothing broken;
>> 
>> This works fine:
>> 
>> instr 2
>> 
>> asig poscil 0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
>> 
>> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
>> 
>> outs asig*0dbfs, asig*0dbfs
>> 
>> endin
>> 
>> 
>> this wont (so I wont do this :) )
>> 
>> instr 2
>> 
>> asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
>> 
>> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
>> 
>> outs asig, asig
>> 
>> endin
>> 
>> 
>> eod (d = discussion)
>> 
>> 2016-01-17 12:57 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
>>> 
>>> There is nothing broken with mvclpf1, nothing to fix there.
>>> ========================
>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>> Maynooth University,
>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>> 
>>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:50, Peter Burgess 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
>>>> off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs
>>>>> =
>>>>> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get
>>>>> used to
>>>>> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my
>>>>> csound
>>>>> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass
>>>>> of
>>>>> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for
>>>>> mvclpf1 so
>>>>> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I
>>>>> can
>>>>> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number
>>>>> 1,
>>>>> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the
>>>>> mailing
>>>>> list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
>>>>> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never
>>>>> got
>>>>> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I
>>>>> would
>>>>> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did
>>>>> also
>>>>> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and
>>>>> see
>>>>> which settings can work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a
>>>>>> lot
>>>>>> of samples out of range.
>>>>>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
>>>>>> number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> filter. The line:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are
>>>>>> multiplying
>>>>>> the output by
>>>>>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by
>>>>>> 0.3.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> 0dbfs value.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ========================
>>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
>>>>>> Maynooth University,
>>>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
>>>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
>>>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for this input Richard.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
>>>>>>> the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old
>>>>>>> 16 bit
>>>>>>> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with
>>>>>>> 32768 in
>>>>>>> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
>>>>>>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
>>>>>>> rate at the very least.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
>>>>>>>> compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
>>>>>>>>> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are
>>>>>>>>> over-range. The
>>>>>>>>> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically
>>>>>>>>> defined and
>>>>>>>>> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a
>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input).
>>>>>>>>> Non-recursive
>>>>>>>>> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate
>>>>>>>>> over-range
>>>>>>>>> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> suggest.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> within that range.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
>>>>>>>>> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles,
>>>>>>>>> audio i/o)
>>>>>>>>> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
>>>>>>>>> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no
>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>>>> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even
>>>>>>>>> at -10dB
>>>>>>>>> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that,
>>>>>>>>> is, I
>>>>>>>>> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised
>>>>>>>>> levels
>>>>>>>>> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map
>>>>>>>>> them to
>>>>>>>>> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the
>>>>>>>>> output level
>>>>>>>>> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the
>>>>>>>>> internal limit -
>>>>>>>>> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital
>>>>>>>>> mixers)
>>>>>>>>> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of
>>>>>>>>> "headroom" giving
>>>>>>>>> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy
>>>>>>>>> grail of
>>>>>>>>> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all
>>>>>>>>> dsp
>>>>>>>>> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to
>>>>>>>>> exercise due
>>>>>>>>> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Richard Dobson
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
>>>>>>>>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on
>>>>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
>>>>>>>>>> filter
>>>>>>>>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter
>>>>>>>>>> types
>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>> to handle this.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>     https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>> features can
>>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>> features can
>>>>> be posted here
>>>> 
>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>> 
>>> Csound mailing list
>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> 
>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>> be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

I ran this code here now:

 



sr = 48000
ksmps = 64
nchnls = 2

giSaw  ftgen  0, 0, 8192, 10, 1, 0.5, 0.3, 0.25, 0.2, 0.167, 0.14, 0.125, .111

instr 1
kmetro metro 5
kpattern[] fillarray 30, 34, 37, 34
kndex init 0
if kmetro == 1 then
kndex += 1
gkfreq = cpsmidinn(kpattern[kndex % 4])
endif

endin

instr 2
asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
asig mvclpf2 asig	, 150, 0.1
outs asig, asig
endin



i 1 0 10
i 2 0 10
e 11



with this result:

new alloc for instr 1:
new alloc for instr 2:
B  0.000 .. 11.000 T 11.000 TT 11.000 M:   5092.4   5092.4
Score finished in csoundPerform().
inactive allocs returned to freespace
end of score.		   overall amps:   5092.4   5092.4
	   overall samples out of range:        0        0


========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:19, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> With csound compiled 17th Jan:
> The one that works returns:
> end of score.           overall amps:   5312.7   5312.7
>        overall samples out of range:        0        0
> 
> The latter one returns:
> end of score.           overall amps:      1.0      1.0
>        overall samples out of range:        0        0
> 
> (now Im going to recompile csound from git develop, so in 15 min I will post my results again)
> 
> 
> 2016-01-17 13:12 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> Both work.
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> 
> > On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:08, Peter Burgess  wrote:
> >
> > Why won't the second example work? that should only output acceptable
> > values within the 0dbfs range aswell
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> >> Yes I agree nothing broken;
> >>
> >> This works fine:
> >>
> >> instr 2
> >>
> >> asig poscil 0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> >>
> >> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
> >>
> >> outs asig*0dbfs, asig*0dbfs
> >>
> >> endin
> >>
> >>
> >> this wont (so I wont do this :) )
> >>
> >> instr 2
> >>
> >> asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> >>
> >> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
> >>
> >> outs asig, asig
> >>
> >> endin
> >>
> >>
> >> eod (d = discussion)
> >>
> >> 2016-01-17 12:57 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> >>>
> >>> There is nothing broken with mvclpf1, nothing to fix there.
> >>> ========================
> >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> >>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> >>> Maynooth University,
> >>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> >>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> >>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> >>>
> >>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:50, Peter Burgess 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
> >>>> off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs
> >>>>> =
> >>>>> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get
> >>>>> used to
> >>>>> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my
> >>>>> csound
> >>>>> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for
> >>>>> mvclpf1 so
> >>>>> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I
> >>>>> can
> >>>>> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number
> >>>>> 1,
> >>>>> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the
> >>>>> mailing
> >>>>> list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
> >>>>> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never
> >>>>> got
> >>>>> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I
> >>>>> would
> >>>>> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did
> >>>>> also
> >>>>> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and
> >>>>> see
> >>>>> which settings can work.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a
> >>>>>> lot
> >>>>>> of samples out of range.
> >>>>>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If
> >>>>>> you
> >>>>>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
> >>>>>> number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> filter. The line:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are
> >>>>>> multiplying
> >>>>>> the output by
> >>>>>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by
> >>>>>> 0.3.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with
> >>>>>> any
> >>>>>> 0dbfs value.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ========================
> >>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> >>>>>> Maynooth University,
> >>>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> >>>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> >>>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for this input Richard.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
> >>>>>>> the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but
> >>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>> is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old
> >>>>>>> 16 bit
> >>>>>>> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with
> >>>>>>> 32768 in
> >>>>>>> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or
> >>>>>>> tell
> >>>>>>> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
> >>>>>>> :
> >>>>>>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
> >>>>>>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
> >>>>>>> rate at the very least.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
> >>>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
> >>>>>>>> compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
> >>>>>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
> >>>>>>>>> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are
> >>>>>>>>> over-range. The
> >>>>>>>>> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically
> >>>>>>>>> defined and
> >>>>>>>>> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will
> >>>>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>>>> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a
> >>>>>>>>> standard
> >>>>>>>>> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input).
> >>>>>>>>> Non-recursive
> >>>>>>>>> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate
> >>>>>>>>> over-range
> >>>>>>>>> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible,
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>> suggest.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is
> >>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values
> >>>>>>>>> also
> >>>>>>>>> within that range.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
> >>>>>>>>> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range,
> >>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles,
> >>>>>>>>> audio i/o)
> >>>>>>>>> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
> >>>>>>>>> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no
> >>>>>>>>> reason
> >>>>>>>>> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even
> >>>>>>>>> at -10dB
> >>>>>>>>> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that,
> >>>>>>>>> is, I
> >>>>>>>>> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised
> >>>>>>>>> levels
> >>>>>>>>> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map
> >>>>>>>>> them to
> >>>>>>>>> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the
> >>>>>>>>> output level
> >>>>>>>>> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the
> >>>>>>>>> internal limit -
> >>>>>>>>> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital
> >>>>>>>>> mixers)
> >>>>>>>>> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of
> >>>>>>>>> "headroom" giving
> >>>>>>>>> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy
> >>>>>>>>> grail of
> >>>>>>>>> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all
> >>>>>>>>> dsp
> >>>>>>>>> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to
> >>>>>>>>> exercise due
> >>>>>>>>> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Richard Dobson
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
> >>>>>>>>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on
> >>>>>>>>>> Jan
> >>>>>>>>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
> >>>>>>>>>> filter
> >>>>>>>>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter
> >>>>>>>>>> types
> >>>>>>>>>> seem
> >>>>>>>>>> to handle this.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>>>>>     https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
> >>>>>>> features can
> >>>>>>> be posted here
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
> >>>>> features can
> >>>>> be posted here
> >>>>
> >>>> Csound mailing list
> >>>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>>
> >>> Csound mailing list
> >>> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> >>> Send bugs reports to
> >>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> >>
> >>
> >> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> >> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> >> be posted here
> >
> > Csound mailing list
> > Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> > Send bugs reports to
> >        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list
> Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> Csound mailing list Csound@listserv.heanet.ie https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Csound mailing list
Csound@listserv.heanet.ie
https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here

Glad it’s all cleared up.
========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:29, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> 
> yes, I promised a result after 15 mins, and yes not I get the same result as you. Dont know what happened, I guess I must have compiled wrong this night. I think I recloned csound into a subdirectory of csound and compiled. hehe, oops.
> 
> Sorry about this.
> 
> 2016-01-17 13:23 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> I ran this code here now:
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> sr = 48000
> ksmps = 64
> nchnls = 2
> 
> giSaw  ftgen  0, 0, 8192, 10, 1, 0.5, 0.3, 0.25, 0.2, 0.167, 0.14, 0.125, .111
> 
> instr 1
> kmetro metro 5
> kpattern[] fillarray 30, 34, 37, 34
> kndex init 0
> if kmetro == 1 then
> kndex += 1
> gkfreq = cpsmidinn(kpattern[kndex % 4])
> endif
> 
> endin
> 
> instr 2
> asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> asig mvclpf2 asig       , 150, 0.1
> outs asig, asig
> endin
> 
> 
> 
> i 1 0 10
> i 2 0 10
> e 11
> 
> 
> 
> with this result:
> 
> new alloc for instr 1:
> new alloc for instr 2:
> B  0.000 .. 11.000 T 11.000 TT 11.000 M:   5092.4   5092.4
> Score finished in csoundPerform().
> inactive allocs returned to freespace
> end of score.              overall amps:   5092.4   5092.4
>            overall samples out of range:        0        0
> 
> 
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> 
> > On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:19, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> >
> > With csound compiled 17th Jan:
> > The one that works returns:
> > end of score.           overall amps:   5312.7 5312.7
> >        overall samples out of range:        0        0
> >
> > The latter one returns:
> > end of score.           overall amps:      1.0      1.0
> >        overall samples out of range:        0        0
> >
> > (now Im going to recompile csound from git develop, so in 15 min I will post my results again)
> >
> >
> > 2016-01-17 13:12 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> > Both work.
> > ========================
> > Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > Maynooth University,
> > Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> >
> > > On 17 Jan 2016, at 12:08, Peter Burgess  wrote:
> > >
> > > Why won't the second example work? that should only output acceptable
> > > values within the 0dbfs range aswell
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson  wrote:
> > >> Yes I agree nothing broken;
> > >>
> > >> This works fine:
> > >>
> > >> instr 2
> > >>
> > >> asig poscil 0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> > >>
> > >> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
> > >>
> > >> outs asig*0dbfs, asig*0dbfs
> > >>
> > >> endin
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> this wont (so I wont do this :) )
> > >>
> > >> instr 2
> > >>
> > >> asig poscil 0dbfs*0.3, gkfreq, giSaw
> > >>
> > >> asig mvclpf2 asig , 150, 0.1
> > >>
> > >> outs asig, asig
> > >>
> > >> endin
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> eod (d = discussion)
> > >>
> > >> 2016-01-17 12:57 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> > >>>
> > >>> There is nothing broken with mvclpf1, nothing to fix there.
> > >>> ========================
> > >>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > >>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > >>> Maynooth University,
> > >>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > >>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > >>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 11:50, Peter Burgess 
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm having a shot at fixing it, though I can't promise I'll pull it
> > >>>> off. If I don't, I'll post an ticket
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>> Ok did you try my example with no 0dbfs assignment (i.e. default 0dbfs
> > >>>>> =
> > >>>>> 32767). Like I mentioned in earlier post, I guess I will have to get
> > >>>>> used to
> > >>>>> doing 0dbfs = 1 if it's becoming a standard. I've develop most of my
> > >>>>> csound
> > >>>>> instrument with the old default, but it is as easy as drinking a glass
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>> water to switch to 0dbfs=1. And I already know how to design for
> > >>>>> mvclpf1 so
> > >>>>> that it wont be a problem, but it's just a bit of inconsitency that I
> > >>>>> can
> > >>>>> use all other mvclpf filters in the example I posted except the number
> > >>>>> 1,
> > >>>>> for me doesn't matter, future users, probably another mail on the
> > >>>>> mailing
> > >>>>> list.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Peter, I tried few days ago tbvcf in my previous instruments and the
> > >>>>> example, both started fine and gradually fell out of range, so I never
> > >>>>> got
> > >>>>> it to work right so I kind of gave all hope from the get go. (since I
> > >>>>> would
> > >>>>> assume since the example wont work then there's not much hope). I did
> > >>>>> also
> > >>>>> use sr=44100 surprisingly, but I will give this filter another shot and
> > >>>>> see
> > >>>>> which settings can work.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 2016-01-17 11:36 GMT+01:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I tested your example here and it’s distorted, as it has a heck of a
> > >>>>>> lot
> > >>>>>> of samples out of range.
> > >>>>>> It’s not a filter problem and not to do with the range of 0dbfs. If
> > >>>>>> you
> > >>>>>> reduce the amplitude, the sound is OK.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> maximum amplitude 154414495.1154414495.1
> > >>>>>> number of samples out of range:   479798   479798
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> the reason why this does not happen with 0dbfs has nothing to do with
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>>>> filter. The line:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> outs asig*0dbfs*0.3, asig*0dbfs*0.3
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> will give you off scale samples if 0dbfs is not 1, as you are
> > >>>>>> multiplying
> > >>>>>> the output by
> > >>>>>> a very large number. If it is 1, then you are just scaling down by
> > >>>>>> 0.3.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Just output the filter signal and you will get the same result with
> > >>>>>> any
> > >>>>>> 0dbfs value.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ========================
> > >>>>>> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> > >>>>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> > >>>>>> Maynooth University,
> > >>>>>> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> > >>>>>> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> > >>>>>> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 17 Jan 2016, at 03:53, Hlöðver Sigurðsson 
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks for this input Richard.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> And I did recompile from develop brach from git now csound, and still
> > >>>>>>> the example I posted https://www.refheap.com/113717 will chop up, but
> > >>>>>>> this
> > >>>>>>> is only with mvclpf1 and only when Im sending amp values in the old
> > >>>>>>> 16 bit
> > >>>>>>> range of 32768. But this does not matter for me since dividing with
> > >>>>>>> 32768 in
> > >>>>>>> the amp parameter in the filter will solve it.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Well Peter, I would love to try tbvcf, maybe you could file a ticket
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> github (since I think I've exhausted my karma points for now :) )? Or
> > >>>>>>> tell
> > >>>>>>> me how you bypass the bug, do you keep the resonance at 0 maybe?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 2016-01-16 15:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Burgess
> > >>>>>>> :
> > >>>>>>> @Hlöðver  I use tbvcf, it's an awesome sounding filter, but there are
> > >>>>>>> definitely issues with that opcode, and moogvcf2, regarding sample
> > >>>>>>> rate at the very least.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Victor Lazzarini
> > >>>>>>>  wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> I just want to remind everyone that Fons' filters are now fully
> > >>>>>>>> compliant with Csound's Odbfs range.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On 16 Jan 2016, at 12:32, Richard Dobson
> > >>>>>>>>>  wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> With 0dbfs = 1 (the so-called "normalised" range of numbers), any
> > >>>>>>>>> samples greater than that are by definition over-range; just as in
> > >>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>> +-32768 range any samples (somehow) larger than that are
> > >>>>>>>>> over-range. The
> > >>>>>>>>> majority of DSP algorithms such as filters are mathematically
> > >>>>>>>>> defined and
> > >>>>>>>>> designed in terms of the normalised range. Over-range samples will
> > >>>>>>>>> very
> > >>>>>>>>> likely result in a filter "blowing up" (specifically if they are a
> > >>>>>>>>> standard
> > >>>>>>>>> "recursive" filter where the output is fed back to the input).
> > >>>>>>>>> Non-recursive
> > >>>>>>>>> ("linear phase") filters will not blow up, and will tolerate
> > >>>>>>>>> over-range
> > >>>>>>>>> samples much more easily. Still something to avoid where possible,
> > >>>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>> suggest.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> One simple demonstration of why the range 0-1 is so important is
> > >>>>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>> the operations of both squaring and square-rooting generate values
> > >>>>>>>>> also
> > >>>>>>>>> within that range.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> In essence, the principle behind the 0dbfs system is that the whole
> > >>>>>>>>> internal signal stream operates on samples in the normalised range,
> > >>>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>>> Csound scales inputs and outputs (most importantly soundfiles,
> > >>>>>>>>> audio i/o)
> > >>>>>>>>> relative to the user's chosen value for 0dbfs. If you write to a
> > >>>>>>>>> floating-point format file, no rescaling is needed at all.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> With floating-point processing throughout, there is really no
> > >>>>>>>>> reason
> > >>>>>>>>> to push signals so close to 1.0 anyway; setting a custom limit even
> > >>>>>>>>> at -10dB
> > >>>>>>>>> (relative to 0dbfs) and computing all amplitudes relative to that,
> > >>>>>>>>> is, I
> > >>>>>>>>> would suggest, good practice. That way, you can set normalised
> > >>>>>>>>> levels
> > >>>>>>>>> conveniently in the score, knowing that the instruments will map
> > >>>>>>>>> them to
> > >>>>>>>>> your custom lower limit. If all is well in rendering, and the
> > >>>>>>>>> output level
> > >>>>>>>>> is still a bit low, then all you have to do is increase the
> > >>>>>>>>> internal limit -
> > >>>>>>>>> a one-line change. Many sound engineers (and professioanl digital
> > >>>>>>>>> mixers)
> > >>>>>>>>> set a working maximum at -20dB - this then leaves 20dB of
> > >>>>>>>>> "headroom" giving
> > >>>>>>>>> a similar feel to the good old days of recording to tape. The holy
> > >>>>>>>>> grail of
> > >>>>>>>>> course is "unity gain" throughout the processing path, but not all
> > >>>>>>>>> dsp
> > >>>>>>>>> opcodes can guarantee that, so Csounders will always need to
> > >>>>>>>>> exercise due
> > >>>>>>>>> vigilance, and make judicious use of "balance" if necessary.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Richard Dobson
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 16/01/2016 10:25, Hlöðver Sigurðsson wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> Well, this bug only occours when the filter mvclpf1 accepts signal
> > >>>>>>>>>> outside the range 0->1, like in this example
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://www.refheap.com/113717 (I compiled the latest csound on
> > >>>>>>>>>> Jan
> > >>>>>>>>>> 13th). So I can see how to easily fix this(just making sure the
> > >>>>>>>>>> filter
> > >>>>>>>>>> does not recieve values greater than 1), but the other filter
> > >>>>>>>>>> types
> > >>>>>>>>>> seem
> > >>>>>>>>>> to handle this.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
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> > >>>>>>>>>     https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
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> > >>>>>>>>
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