Hey all,

csounds newbie here

I have a few questions that I'm trying to figure out.  So I was using this
page here:
http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/UsingOptimizing.html

and this page
http://en.flossmanuals.net/csound/d-live-audio/

To try and solve my latency issues on Windows 7 using a MOTU 8 pre (24-bit)
firewire audio interface, but seem to still be getting a pretty significant
amount of latency from the mic.  Even with ksmps set to 32, -b set to -16,
and my -B set to 512

Any tips?  I'm sort of at a loss here

Cheers,
Jesse



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hi jesse -

it looks strange for me that your -b is smaller than your ksmps.  can 
you try ksmps=32, -b128, -B512 or something like this?

if this does not help: is it the same with the internal sound card, or 
is it a motu problem?

best -
	joachim


Am 19.05.2015 um 01:15 schrieb KvltKitty:
> Hey all,
>
> csounds newbie here
>
> I have a few questions that I'm trying to figure out.  So I was using this
> page here:
> http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/UsingOptimizing.html
>
> and this page
> http://en.flossmanuals.net/csound/d-live-audio/
>
> To try and solve my latency issues on Windows 7 using a MOTU 8 pre (24-bit)
> firewire audio interface, but seem to still be getting a pretty significant
> amount of latency from the mic.  Even with ksmps set to 32, -b set to -16,
> and my -B set to 512
>
> Any tips?  I'm sort of at a loss here
>
> Cheers,
> Jesse
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
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Hi,
 the questions are all right, the mysteries of buffering and latency
always seem to creep back in and needs to be revisited again and
again...

It sounds as if you are not using ASIO drivers, since the audio
devices are listed as stereo pairs. The ASIO driver would most likely
report one multichannel device. Latency with the windows (non ASIO)
drivers will be bad.

To have less source of confusion regarding the setting of command line
flags (-o, -b, -B etc) I would recommend running Csound directly on
the command line (terminal). The front end may set some flags for you,
and while this is convenient, it can also lead to confusion (something
being set in a certain way that you did not notice or did not know
that mattered).
If you run on the command line (or use the console window of the front
end), you can also use the console print to diagnose your settings.
The available audio devices will be listed, and there is also a line
saying "audio buffered in N sample-frame blocks" and similarly some
lines later "writing N sample blksof 64 bit floats to dac", where the
first N should correspond to your -b value, and the second N is the
effective outbut buffer size (may correspond to -B). Others will be
able to tell more specifics about these numbers, but in any case they
reflect the values actually being used (in case some process has
overridden your intended settings).

For simple testing of latency, you can also use this csd, it does
nothing but read audio input and send it to audio out without any
modification or delay.






sr = 44100
ksmps = 64
nchnls = 2
0dbfs = 1


instr 1
a1, a2 ins
outs a1, a2
endin




; start dur
i1 0 600
e





2015-05-19 12:48 GMT+02:00 joachim heintz :
> hi jesse -
>
> it looks strange for me that your -b is smaller than your ksmps.  can
> you try ksmps=32, -b128, -B512 or something like this?
>
> if this does not help: is it the same with the internal sound card, or
> is it a motu problem?
>
> best -
>         joachim
>
>
> Am 19.05.2015 um 01:15 schrieb KvltKitty:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> csounds newbie here
>>
>> I have a few questions that I'm trying to figure out.  So I was using this
>> page here:
>> http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/UsingOptimizing.html
>>
>> and this page
>> http://en.flossmanuals.net/csound/d-live-audio/
>>
>> To try and solve my latency issues on Windows 7 using a MOTU 8 pre (24-bit)
>> firewire audio interface, but seem to still be getting a pretty significant
>> amount of latency from the mic.  Even with ksmps set to 32, -b set to -16,
>> and my -B set to 512
>>
>> Any tips?  I'm sort of at a loss here
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jesse
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-users mailing list
>> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
>> Send bugs reports to
>>          https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
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Hello,

Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful but a strange issue has arisen. 
So upon selecting the MOTU Audio ASIO driver for the input, it seems to
output a lot of harsh static and then crashes.  This is strange because if I
select the ASIO driver within REAPER (the DAW), it works just fine.  I'm
uncertain what's happening here



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I wonder would you have better success with the ASIO4ALL drivers? They
are ones I usually use when working on Windows. I can't think what
might be causing that problem you report.

On 20 May 2015 at 11:16, KvltKitty  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful but a strange issue has arisen.
> So upon selecting the MOTU Audio ASIO driver for the input, it seems to
> output a lot of harsh static and then crashes.  This is strange because if I
> select the ASIO driver within REAPER (the DAW), it works just fine.  I'm
> uncertain what's happening here
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727p5741740.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
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I'm not quite sure, but it might sound like Csound is producing sound
in another format than what the audio driver expects.
IIRC, you could try the -f flag to set floats as the output, but I
thought this was set by default now.
Is this with the "thru test" csd I posted earlier?
Can you run in the terminal, then copy (all) the text printed to the
terminal window, and paste that into an email here?

2015-05-20 12:16 GMT+02:00 KvltKitty :
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful but a strange issue has arisen.
> So upon selecting the MOTU Audio ASIO driver for the input, it seems to
> output a lot of harsh static and then crashes.  This is strange because if I
> select the ASIO driver within REAPER (the DAW), it works just fine.  I'm
> uncertain what's happening here
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727p5741740.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
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> _______________________________________________
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To follow up on my thought that it might be related to output format,
you can also check the options at
http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/CommandFlagsCategory.html
possible things to try could be -3 -A -W -s or -f (use only one of
them, I just listed the possibilities)

2015-05-20 16:42 GMT+02:00 Rory Walsh :
> I wonder would you have better success with the ASIO4ALL drivers? They
> are ones I usually use when working on Windows. I can't think what
> might be causing that problem you report.
>
> On 20 May 2015 at 11:16, KvltKitty  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful but a strange issue has arisen.
>> So upon selecting the MOTU Audio ASIO driver for the input, it seems to
>> output a lot of harsh static and then crashes.  This is strange because if I
>> select the ASIO driver within REAPER (the DAW), it works just fine.  I'm
>> uncertain what's happening here
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727p5741740.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-users mailing list
>> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
>> Send bugs reports to
>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
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-f etc are for files. Sound to DAC follows whatever the audio backend uses (for portaudio, it is floats).

Sounds like a problem with input? If you are using input, make sure ksmps is a power of two
and both -b and -B are also power of two.

You can also test just output: take -i adc out of the system. Are you using CsoundQT? In that
case, you might want to set this in the control panel (just clear the “input device” box leaving it blank).

========================
Dr Victor Lazzarini
Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
Maynooth University,
Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
Tel: 00 353 7086936
Fax: 00 353 1 7086952 

> On 20 May 2015, at 15:51, Oeyvind Brandtsegg  wrote:
> 
> To follow up on my thought that it might be related to output format,
> you can also check the options at
> http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/CommandFlagsCategory.html
> possible things to try could be -3 -A -W -s or -f (use only one of
> them, I just listed the possibilities)
> 
> 2015-05-20 16:42 GMT+02:00 Rory Walsh :
>> I wonder would you have better success with the ASIO4ALL drivers? They
>> are ones I usually use when working on Windows. I can't think what
>> might be causing that problem you report.
>> 
>> On 20 May 2015 at 11:16, KvltKitty  wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful but a strange issue has arisen.
>>> So upon selecting the MOTU Audio ASIO driver for the input, it seems to
>>> output a lot of harsh static and then crashes.  This is strange because if I
>>> select the ASIO driver within REAPER (the DAW), it works just fine.  I'm
>>> uncertain what's happening here
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727p5741740.html
>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-users mailing list
>>> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-users mailing list
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>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Oeyvind Brandtsegg
> Professor of Music Technology
> NTNU
> 7491 Trondheim
> Norway
> Cell: +47 92 203 205
> 
> http://flyndresang.no/
> http://www.partikkelaudio.com/
> http://soundcloud.com/brandtsegg
> http://soundcloud.com/t-emp
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
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> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
> Send bugs reports to
>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ah, thanks for the clarification Victor,
I just seem to recall I tried a MOTU interface once and that I had a
similar problem, and I also seemed to recall that it was solved with
-f,
but apparently my memory serves me wrong, this was years ago...

2015-05-20 16:59 GMT+02:00 Victor Lazzarini :
> -f etc are for files. Sound to DAC follows whatever the audio backend uses (for portaudio, it is floats).
>
> Sounds like a problem with input? If you are using input, make sure ksmps is a power of two
> and both -b and -B are also power of two.
>
> You can also test just output: take -i adc out of the system. Are you using CsoundQT? In that
> case, you might want to set this in the control panel (just clear the “input device” box leaving it blank).
>
> ========================
> Dr Victor Lazzarini
> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies and Philosophy,
> Maynooth University,
> Maynooth, Co Kildare, Ireland
> Tel: 00 353 7086936
> Fax: 00 353 1 7086952
>
>> On 20 May 2015, at 15:51, Oeyvind Brandtsegg  wrote:
>>
>> To follow up on my thought that it might be related to output format,
>> you can also check the options at
>> http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/CommandFlagsCategory.html
>> possible things to try could be -3 -A -W -s or -f (use only one of
>> them, I just listed the possibilities)
>>
>> 2015-05-20 16:42 GMT+02:00 Rory Walsh :
>>> I wonder would you have better success with the ASIO4ALL drivers? They
>>> are ones I usually use when working on Windows. I can't think what
>>> might be causing that problem you report.
>>>
>>> On 20 May 2015 at 11:16, KvltKitty  wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply, it was very helpful but a strange issue has arisen.
>>>> So upon selecting the MOTU Audio ASIO driver for the input, it seems to
>>>> output a lot of harsh static and then crashes.  This is strange because if I
>>>> select the ASIO driver within REAPER (the DAW), it works just fine.  I'm
>>>> uncertain what's happening here
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: http://csound.1045644.n5.nabble.com/Latency-issues-and-input-questions-help-a-csounds-newbie-tp5741727p5741740.html
>>>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>>>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>>>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>>>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Csound-users mailing list
>>>> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Csound-users mailing list
>>> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Oeyvind Brandtsegg
>> Professor of Music Technology
>> NTNU
>> 7491 Trondheim
>> Norway
>> Cell: +47 92 203 205
>>
>> http://flyndresang.no/
>> http://www.partikkelaudio.com/
>> http://soundcloud.com/brandtsegg
>> http://soundcloud.com/t-emp
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
>> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
>> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
>> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
>> _______________________________________________
>> Csound-users mailing list
>> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
>> Send bugs reports to
>>        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud
> Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
> Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
> Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/290420510;117567292;y
> _______________________________________________
> Csound-users mailing list
> Csound-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/csound-users
> Send bugs reports to
>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here



-- 

Oeyvind Brandtsegg
Professor of Music Technology
NTNU
7491 Trondheim
Norway
Cell: +47 92 203 205

http://flyndresang.no/
http://www.partikkelaudio.com/
http://soundcloud.com/brandtsegg
http://soundcloud.com/t-emp

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications
Performance metrics, stats and reports that give you Actionable Insights
Deep dive visibility with transaction tracing using APM Insight.
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_______________________________________________
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Send bugs reports to
        https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here