Moran/Meyer is a subject of discussion in the HiRes audio 
community. Vicki knows DSP, George Massenburg is an advocate 
of HiRes, Mark Waldrep of AIX Records and others really up 
on the HiRes audio world. 

Comparing apples to apples kinds of comparisons and having 
a proper reference point, and I think being somewhat subjective 
rather than objective in the testing, were among the critiques 
I've read. I read something by Moran/Meyer, I found it lacking 
in some ways. Left me with more questions than answers. Mark 
Waldrep has some stuff on his AIX Records blog pages. AIX only 
does HiRes Audio content, no Red Book there that I saw. 

I get the impression that when you jump to 24-bit,... noise 
shaping is preferred over dither. Especially at high rates like 
96kHz and 192kHz. 

There is an AES Technical Committee on High Resolution Audio. 
Go onto AES site, maybe someone on the committee will be a good 
brain to pick. 

I'm acquainted with Vicki, Mark, George, Josh Reiss at QMUL, Bob 
Katz, et al,... cause I'm on that committee too, but they really 
know this stuff really well. They'd be the best brains picking 
for this. Better than me. 


-Partev B Sarkissian




--- michael.gogins@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Gogins 
To: A discussion list for music-related DSP 
Cc: cec-conference@googlegroups.com,	Developer discussions ,	csound users' discussions 
Subject: Re: [Csnd] [music-dsp] Dither video and articles
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 08:48:27 -0500

I am copying this as I believe it is of general importance to our
community. Thank you for the link.

Regards,
Mike Gogins

-----------------------------------------------------
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://michaelgogins.tumblr.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 8:21 AM, Vicki Melchior  wrote:
> The following published double blind test contradicts the results of the old Moran/Meyer publication in showing (a) that the differences between CD and higher resolution sources is audible and (b) that failure to dither at the 16th bit is also audible.
>
> http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17497
>
> The Moran/Meyer tests had numerous technical problems that have long been discussed, some are enumerated in the above.
>
> As far as dithering at the 24th bit, I can't disagree more with a conclusion that says it's unnecessary in data handling.  Mastering engineers can hear truncation error at the 24th bit but say it is subtle and may require experience or training to pick up.  What they are hearing is not noise or peaks sitting at the 24th bit but rather the distortion that goes with truncation at 24b, and it is said to have a characteristic coloration effect on sound.  I'm aware of an effort to show this with AB/X tests, hopefully it will be published.  The problem with failing to dither at 24b is that many such truncation steps would be done routinely in mastering, and thus the truncation distortion products continue to build up.  Whether you personally hear it is likely to depend both on how extensive yo
 ur data flow pathway is and how good your playback equipment is.
>
> Vicki Melchior
>
> On Feb 5, 2015, at 10:01 PM, Ross Bencina wrote:
>
>> On 6/02/2015 1:50 PM, Tom Duffy wrote:
>>> The AES report is highly controversial.
>>>
>>> Plenty of sources dispute the findings.
>>
>> Can you name some?
>>
>> Ross.
>> --
>> dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website:
>> subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links
>> http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
>> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp
>
> --
> dupswapdrop -- the music-dsp mailing list and website:
> subscription info, FAQ, source code archive, list archive, book reviews, dsp links
> http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/music-dsp
> http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/music-dsp

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