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ATS noise data / Bark scale

Date2007-10-11 10:07
FromTim Mortimer
SubjectATS noise data / Bark scale
Some of u may recall I was unable to get ATS -u utilities working on my
machine. Or rather they worked but the residual noise was being spat out as
a wav file, & not as ATS analysis data that could be read by ATS adnz (or
similar..)

I'm keen to use an ATS like "model" however to supplement my partial based
resynthesis experiments with noise "bands".

In attempting to find out more about noise bands in ATS i have discovered
the "Bark scale"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bark_scale

& am keen to perhaps begin with this as a model for implementing some
arbitrary "sound design" (along a 
vaguely ATS inspired trajectory) using a band of "band limited noise"
oscillators....

but I was wondering (as none of the ATS info i have looked at reveals as
much), & similar to my PVOC data / SPEAR SDIF musings....

* is it possible to "extract" from an ATS analysis file a meaningful summary
of the "noise bands" 

to allow for "resynthesis by arbitrary/ alternate models" of noise
components of a sound?

has anyone already been down this route? or can anyone simply clarify yet
another "how can i tweak & edit my XYZ resynthesis data" query? (this time
about ATS...)

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Date2007-10-11 15:53
FromJohn Lato
SubjectRe: ATS noise data / Bark scale
Have you looked at Loris?  It also extracts band limited noise from analyzing a 
soundfile.  By using the Loris library in Python (not the csound opcodes) I was able 
to extract all the analysis data, then use it any way I wanted.  I don't have much 
experience with ATS though.

John W. Lato
School of Music
The University of Texas at Austin
1 University Station E3100
Austin, TX 78712-0435
(512) 232-2090

Tim Mortimer wrote:
> Some of u may recall I was unable to get ATS -u utilities working on my
> machine. Or rather they worked but the residual noise was being spat out as
> a wav file, & not as ATS analysis data that could be read by ATS adnz (or
> similar..)
> 
> I'm keen to use an ATS like "model" however to supplement my partial based
> resynthesis experiments with noise "bands".
> 
> In attempting to find out more about noise bands in ATS i have discovered
> the "Bark scale"
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bark_scale
> 
> & am keen to perhaps begin with this as a model for implementing some
> arbitrary "sound design" (along a 
> vaguely ATS inspired trajectory) using a band of "band limited noise"
> oscillators....
> 
> but I was wondering (as none of the ATS info i have looked at reveals as
> much), & similar to my PVOC data / SPEAR SDIF musings....
> 
> * is it possible to "extract" from an ATS analysis file a meaningful summary
> of the "noise bands" 
> 
> to allow for "resynthesis by arbitrary/ alternate models" of noise
> components of a sound?
> 
> has anyone already been down this route? or can anyone simply clarify yet
> another "how can i tweak & edit my XYZ resynthesis data" query? (this time
> about ATS...)
> 

Date2007-10-11 23:50
FromTim Mortimer
SubjectRe: ATS noise data / Bark scale / why not PVOC?
Hi John,

It seems i can always rely on you for a short & targetted response to many
of my noise resynthesis dilemmas! So I thank you very much once gain.

the short answer to your Loris suggestion is, unfortunately, "yes", & "no" ;
) (nothings ever simple with me is it?)

couldn't find Loris opcodes in my csound 5.06 install at all, & ran into
some problems as outlined a few months back in this thread (basically the
Python Loris code is for 2.4 not 2.5 (?), & my csound build has no loris
opcodes..... other than that, no problems! ; ) ...)

http://www.nabble.com/Loris-in-5.06-tf3957656.html#a11229942

see also

http://www.nabble.com/Loris-vs-ATS-tf3957942.html#a11234652

for parrallel loris vs ATS musings....

so i'm back on the same trajectory here, more or less - wanting to perform
an additive style of synthesis that combines pure sines with bandwidth
enhanced partials, but in such a way that the line between analysis data &
"purely fictional" data can be mixed & matched (& modulated) easily - more
or less emulating what i do with my "PVOC tides" but in a more targetted
way.

I'm also keen (by using an additive rather than a PVOC approach) to enable /
experiment with some sort of interpolation of partial ratios & noiseband
details between analysis of instruments & sounds at different frequencies,
so that i can create a complete instrument range spread quickly & easily.
(like you would create "keyboard spread DX / FM parameter settings for
example)

doing this with PVOC opcodes may be possible (PVS morph or other similar,
writing this from memory) - the "problem" there however is i use SPEAR to
target key partial bins etc, & then table masking to modulate them

 & if there happens to be a subtle alteration in the ratio of upper partials
between the bass range & the upper range of an instrument (say for example),
then cross fading / interpolating any data somehow isn't going to remain
focussed on any "exact partial range" any more - thus diminsihing any
meaningful partial modulation targets for the interpolated signal.... 

am I making sense? the alternative would be a SPEAR analysis, hand editing,
python wrangle, & PVX file for each note of the instrument.... & that's
something i have been kind of reluctant to get into for obvious time &
sanity depreciating reasons....



John Lato wrote:
> 
> Have you looked at Loris?  It also extracts band limited noise from
> analyzing a 
> soundfile.  By using the Loris library in Python (not the csound opcodes)
> I was able 
> to extract all the analysis data, then use it any way I wanted.  I don't
> have much 
> experience with ATS though.
> 
> John W. Lato
> School of Music
> The University of Texas at Austin
> 1 University Station E3100
> Austin, TX 78712-0435
> (512) 232-2090
> 
> Tim Mortimer wrote:
>> Some of u may recall I was unable to get ATS -u utilities working on my
>> machine. Or rather they worked but the residual noise was being spat out
>> as
>> a wav file, & not as ATS analysis data that could be read by ATS adnz (or
>> similar..)
>> 
>> I'm keen to use an ATS like "model" however to supplement my partial
>> based
>> resynthesis experiments with noise "bands".
>> 
>> In attempting to find out more about noise bands in ATS i have discovered
>> the "Bark scale"
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bark_scale
>> 
>> & am keen to perhaps begin with this as a model for implementing some
>> arbitrary "sound design" (along a 
>> vaguely ATS inspired trajectory) using a band of "band limited noise"
>> oscillators....
>> 
>> but I was wondering (as none of the ATS info i have looked at reveals as
>> much), & similar to my PVOC data / SPEAR SDIF musings....
>> 
>> * is it possible to "extract" from an ATS analysis file a meaningful
>> summary
>> of the "noise bands" 
>> 
>> to allow for "resynthesis by arbitrary/ alternate models" of noise
>> components of a sound?
>> 
>> has anyone already been down this route? or can anyone simply clarify yet
>> another "how can i tweak & edit my XYZ resynthesis data" query? (this
>> time
>> about ATS...)
>> 
> -- 
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email to csound-unsubscribe@lists.bath.ac.uk
> 
> 

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